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Re: [PPLetterpress] Making negatives

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  • Gerald Lange
    Hi David Sounds about right. I was informed, yesterday, about a new technique that Harry Reese has been using. This uses some kind of laser exposure paper that
    Message 1 of 12 , Feb 7, 2003
      Hi David

      Sounds about right. I was informed, yesterday, about a new technique
      that Harry Reese has been using. This uses some kind of laser exposure
      paper that is being distributed by Legion, and an additional in-house
      processing step.

      Perhaps, if Harry reads this, he might elaborate a bit?

      Gerald
    • Gerald Lange <bieler@worldnet.att.net>
      David A further note on this. I have talked extensively with Xante and have processed plates with negs that came off the Platemaker printer they are selling.
      Message 2 of 12 , Feb 7, 2003
        David

        A further note on this. I have talked extensively with Xante and have
        processed plates with negs that came off the Platemaker printer they
        are selling. The blacks look quite gray and the transparency is almost
        a diluted milk color, but they do perform well. I was informed that
        when their transparency is any clearer, they've run into problems. The
        specs they provided do just meet minimum standards.

        Problem with a 2400 dpi laser engine, as their techs have informed me,
        is that it is pushing the technology to its extreme, and to some
        extent, beyond what it is really capable of.

        The problem I've found with the Xante is toner-scatter. Since I do a
        lot of repro quality work, this has not been acceptable. I haven't
        detected the same problem with the negs as I suspect the scatter
        cannot be detected during exposure.

        Gerald
        >
        > 3) A standard laser printer can't produce negatives because the toner
        > density isn't enough to produce true blacks on transparencies.
        >
        >
        > 5) The Xante direct-to-film system is essentially a souped up laser
        > printer along with a "processor" which simply runs the transparency
        > through the same kind of solution as Print Buddy, thereby automating #4.
        >
      • Ed Inman
        ... density isn t enough to produce true blacks on transparencies.
        Message 3 of 12 , Feb 7, 2003
          David wrote:
          >>>>>3) A standard laser printer can't produce negatives because the toner
          density isn't enough to produce true blacks on transparencies.<<<<<<

          I don't know if this is necessarily true. Although I still use traditional
          Kodalith type film and a process camera to shoot line art, I have had good
          luck burning halftone photopolymer plates directly from negatives produced
          by my laser printer. I just use the normal 3M type transparency film
          available at most office supply stores.

          However, if the density is what you are worried about, there is still a way
          to make a good, traditional film negative (without a camera) in your
          bathroom or closet. All you need is a contact printing frame (or weighted
          glass on foam rubber--same as you use to burn the plates), a light source,
          some developing trays, a box of lith film, some A&B type lith developer,
          stop bath, and fixer. The entire setup should cost less than $100.

          First print your artwork as a positive onto this same 3M type film (or any
          light weight, translucent paper) in a laser printer. (If you don't have a
          laser printer, you can use a normal Xerox copier although the image may not
          be as good.).

          Then contact print this positive onto traditional lith film and develop
          normally.

          For the sharpest possible image, print your original mirror image, and print
          face down with the film emulsion facing up.

          The polymer plate should, of course, be burned as a mirror image with the
          film emulsion facing down against the plate.

          I made dozens of plates this way with good success, but then I got an old
          Argyle process camera for free that was being thrown out, and it works as
          good as new. That is always an option too these days if you have the room.
          Cameras, like linotypes, can be had for almost nothing if you can find
          somewhere to put them.

          Ed

          Ed
        • joelsherman5000
          Hello, This is Joel Sherman, the print lab tech at UCSB, working with Harry Reese. Some of you may be interested in the process we ve been using here for
          Message 4 of 12 , Mar 5, 2003
            Hello,

            This is Joel Sherman, the print lab tech at UCSB, working with Harry
            Reese. Some of you may be interested in the process we've been using
            here for making our own negatives. Go to:

            http://www.arts.ucsb.edu/staff/sherman/printlab/pages/main.html

            then click on:

            How to make negatives for photopolymer plates

            I've been refining this process from a data sheet I got from
            Anderson&Vreeland.
            Daylight contact film is about $1.50 per 10x12 sheet and comes in
            packs of 100. Transparency overlay is about $.40 per sheet. AB lith
            developer is about $20.00 for a one gallon set from freestylephoto and
            will develop many sheets.

            Joel
          • Gerald Lange
            Joel Thanks for posting this. Harry had sent me something previously, but mentioned you would be finishing up a more precise description. Bit surprised about
            Message 5 of 12 , Mar 8, 2003
              Joel

              Thanks for posting this. Harry had sent me something previously, but
              mentioned you would be finishing up a more precise description. Bit
              surprised about A&V's contribution. Does this work well for text? or
              are you mainly concentrating on images?

              Is the Laser Buddy a crucial step? or would a secondary chemical bath
              help improve the opacity? I remember that Xante recommended a second
              bath to improve the opacity with their bath unit.

              Gerald


              >
              > This is Joel Sherman, the print lab tech at UCSB, working with Harry
              > Reese. Some of you may be interested in the process we've been using
              > here for making our own negatives. Go to:
              >
              > http://www.arts.ucsb.edu/staff/sherman/printlab/pages/main.html
              >
              > then click on:
              >
              > How to make negatives for photopolymer plates
              >
              > I've been refining this process from a data sheet I got from
              > Anderson&Vreeland.
              > Daylight contact film is about $1.50 per 10x12 sheet and comes in
              > packs of 100. Transparency overlay is about $.40 per sheet. AB lith
              > developer is about $20.00 for a one gallon set from freestylephoto and
              > will develop many sheets.
              >
              > Joel
            • Joel D. Sherman
              Hi Gerald, This process seems to work pretty well for text. I can t say they match the quality of negatives made on an imagesetter. The process is still being
              Message 6 of 12 , Mar 11, 2003
                Hi Gerald,

                This process seems to work pretty well for text. I can't say they match the
                quality of negatives made on an imagesetter. The process is still being
                developed, so more tests should be made.

                A rather heavy coat of Laser Buddy increases the density of the toner
                enough to substantially reduce black speckling in clear parts of the
                negative caused by light leaking through the toner. The difference is
                noticeable if you have solid areas in your image. I think that minimizing
                the exposure time also helps reduce the amount of light that leaks through
                the toner.

                Joel


                --On Sunday, March 09, 2003 7:02 AM +0000 Gerald Lange
                <bieler@...> wrote:

                > Joel
                >
                > Thanks for posting this. Harry had sent me something previously, but
                > mentioned you would be finishing up a more precise description. Bit
                > surprised about A&V's contribution. Does this work well for text? or
                > are you mainly concentrating on images?
                >
                > Is the Laser Buddy a crucial step? or would a secondary chemical bath
                > help improve the opacity? I remember that Xante recommended a second
                > bath to improve the opacity with their bath unit.
                >
                > Gerald
                >
                >
                >>
                >> This is Joel Sherman, the print lab tech at UCSB, working with Harry
                >> Reese. Some of you may be interested in the process we've been using
                >> here for making our own negatives. Go to:
                >>
                >> http://www.arts.ucsb.edu/staff/sherman/printlab/pages/main.html
                >>
                >> then click on:
                >>
                >> How to make negatives for photopolymer plates
                >>
                >> I've been refining this process from a data sheet I got from
                >> Anderson&Vreeland.
                >> Daylight contact film is about $1.50 per 10x12 sheet and comes in
                >> packs of 100. Transparency overlay is about $.40 per sheet. AB lith
                >> developer is about $20.00 for a one gallon set from freestylephoto and
                >> will develop many sheets.
                >>
                >> Joel
                >
                >
                >
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              • Joel D. Sherman
                Hello Gerald, My name is Joel Sherman, and I work at UCSB. You may remember the information I posted a while back about homemade negatives. I am nearing
                Message 7 of 12 , Aug 31, 2004
                  Hello Gerald,

                  My name is Joel Sherman, and I work at UCSB. You may remember the
                  information I posted a while back about homemade negatives.

                  I am nearing completion of rebuilding an sp15 which was donated to us
                  recently. I plan to follow the instructions you posted for adjusting the
                  cylinder carriage and am looking for 36pt steel rule and .001 tissue paper.
                  I work with Harry Reese, who told me you are selling some things, and may
                  have these items. I checked your ebay listings and didn't see anything.

                  If you have either of these, please let me know what you want to sell them
                  for.

                  Thanks,

                  Joel Sherman






                  --On Sunday, March 09, 2003 7:02 AM +0000 Gerald Lange
                  <bieler@...> wrote:

                  > Joel
                  >
                  > Thanks for posting this. Harry had sent me something previously, but
                  > mentioned you would be finishing up a more precise description. Bit
                  > surprised about A&V's contribution. Does this work well for text? or
                  > are you mainly concentrating on images?
                  >
                  > Is the Laser Buddy a crucial step? or would a secondary chemical bath
                  > help improve the opacity? I remember that Xante recommended a second
                  > bath to improve the opacity with their bath unit.
                  >
                  > Gerald
                  >
                  >
                  >>
                  >> This is Joel Sherman, the print lab tech at UCSB, working with Harry
                  >> Reese. Some of you may be interested in the process we've been using
                  >> here for making our own negatives. Go to:
                  >>
                  >> http://www.arts.ucsb.edu/staff/sherman/printlab/pages/main.html
                  >>
                  >> then click on:
                  >>
                  >> How to make negatives for photopolymer plates
                  >>
                  >> I've been refining this process from a data sheet I got from
                  >> Anderson&Vreeland.
                  >> Daylight contact film is about $1.50 per 10x12 sheet and comes in
                  >> packs of 100. Transparency overlay is about $.40 per sheet. AB lith
                  >> developer is about $20.00 for a one gallon set from freestylephoto and
                  >> will develop many sheets.
                  >>
                  >> Joel
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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                  > ? Encountering problems? contact:
                  > PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
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                  > PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                  Joel Sherman
                  (805)893-3367
                • Gerald Lange
                  Joel I was just checking on full face steel rule and it isn t made wider than 4 pts. You can get brass barweld (full face) rule from Caslon Limited but it will
                  Message 8 of 12 , Aug 31, 2004
                    Joel

                    I was just checking on full face steel rule and it isn't made wider than
                    4 pts. You can get brass barweld (full face) rule from Caslon Limited
                    but it will literally cost you an arm and a leg (I've been toying with
                    the idea of an order for some 18-pt). You might try to find some new
                    36pt full face lead rule and just cut that to fit the press (about 17
                    inches on a SP-15).

                    Tissue can be picked up most any place. New York Central Supply sells a
                    pretty good tissue. But these days I use .001 acetate for this. You can
                    usually get this at a graphic art supply store, if not, .001 tracing
                    paper will do.

                    I have some ink test strip steel bars at .918 but they are 3/4 of an
                    inch wide and 19-3/4 inches long. We used these on a SP-20 for testing
                    and as roller supports. You'd have to chop off some three inches and
                    this is some very hard steel.

                    Gerald

                    Joel D. Sherman wrote:

                    >Hello Gerald,
                    >
                    >My name is Joel Sherman, and I work at UCSB. You may remember the
                    >information I posted a while back about homemade negatives.
                    >
                    >I am nearing completion of rebuilding an sp15 which was donated to us
                    >recently. I plan to follow the instructions you posted for adjusting the
                    >cylinder carriage and am looking for 36pt steel rule and .001 tissue paper.
                    >I work with Harry Reese, who told me you are selling some things, and may
                    >have these items. I checked your ebay listings and didn't see anything.
                    >
                    >If you have either of these, please let me know what you want to sell them
                    >for.
                    >
                    >Thanks,
                    >
                    >Joel Sherman
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >--On Sunday, March 09, 2003 7:02 AM +0000 Gerald Lange
                    ><bieler@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >>Joel
                    >>
                    >>Thanks for posting this. Harry had sent me something previously, but
                    >>mentioned you would be finishing up a more precise description. Bit
                    >>surprised about A&V's contribution. Does this work well for text? or
                    >>are you mainly concentrating on images?
                    >>
                    >>Is the Laser Buddy a crucial step? or would a secondary chemical bath
                    >>help improve the opacity? I remember that Xante recommended a second
                    >>bath to improve the opacity with their bath unit.
                    >>
                    >>Gerald
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>>This is Joel Sherman, the print lab tech at UCSB, working with Harry
                    >>>Reese. Some of you may be interested in the process we've been using
                    >>>here for making our own negatives. Go to:
                    >>>
                    >>>http://www.arts.ucsb.edu/staff/sherman/printlab/pages/main.html
                    >>>
                    >>>then click on:
                    >>>
                    >>>How to make negatives for photopolymer plates
                    >>>
                    >>> I've been refining this process from a data sheet I got from
                    >>>Anderson&Vreeland.
                    >>> Daylight contact film is about $1.50 per 10x12 sheet and comes in
                    >>>packs of 100. Transparency overlay is about $.40 per sheet. AB lith
                    >>>developer is about $20.00 for a one gallon set from freestylephoto and
                    >>>will develop many sheets.
                    >>>
                    >>>Joel
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>
                    >>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    >>ADVERTISEMENT
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                    >>? To respond to a post or post a message to the membership:
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                    >>? Encountering problems? contact:
                    >>PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
                    >>? To unsubscribe:
                    >>PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >>
                    >>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >Joel Sherman
                    >(805)893-3367
                    >
                    >
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