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Emergency --> Inked Press UPDATE (Cross-Posted)

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  • Amanda Burton
    First of all, it s been really nice reading everyone s comments on the list. I have told friends and family of the incident, but most of them don t really
    Message 1 of 10 , Nov 26, 2010
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      First of all, it's been really nice reading everyone's comments on the list. I have told friends and family of "the incident," but most of them don't really get it because they don't understand how the press works.

      I'm feeling much better (I am mostly able to type now, in an awkward, straight-fingered way). Fingers are still sore but not causing major pain. I'm taking 800 mg ibuprofen and being careful not to bump in to things (surprise--I'm a klutz!). I have an uncle who was a hand surgeon so I'm going to ask him about it. Maybe he'll have some ideas about what to avoid/do during the healing process.

      Fritz is right--I have a (motorized) 10x15 C&P. I've had it for 3 years and have lost countless pieces of paper due to NOT reaching in to adjust them. It runs pretty slow, and perhaps it's not proper printing procedure, but I usually skip a cycle in between pieces of paper, because then I am less likely to get careless. I always thought I had a healthy respect for the press, but now I know I do. I appreciate the encouragement to get back out there--I'm usually not mentally affected by injury, but I keep thinking about what happened, and what COULD have happened. I didn't have the lever pulled to print, and if I had, I fear I would have definitely broken (or lost) three finger(tips). That keeps flashing through my head whenever I have a quiet moment, and I wish it would stop! But I do have several jobs to finish (including the one I was printing when this happened), so I guess I'll HAVE to get back out there soon. I think a good day of printing once I'm healed up enough will make me feel a lot better. 

      Anyway, just wanted to say thanks again to everyone. These lists are truly great resources for both information and support. I'm so pleased to be part of this community. 

      Hope you're all having a great Thanksgiving weekend.


      Amanda.


    • Kathleen Whalen
      Amanda ­ don¹t go back to the press yet. I know you say it is slow running, but it¹s obviously not slow enough for you if you don¹t have time to place the
      Message 2 of 10 , Nov 26, 2010
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        Re: [PPLetterpress] Emergency --> Inked Press UPDATE (Cross-Posted) Amanda – don’t go back to the press yet. I know you say it is slow running, but it’s obviously not slow enough for you if you don’t have time to place the paper properly. That is the issue to deal with first – you MUST run your press at a slower speed. Tell your customers that the job will be later than you promised, then get a pulley changed or a variable speed motor fitted that will run slower for you. No top finger joints, and you’ll be out of work a long time, and still have to get a slower running speed when the scars have healed – hey, and have to put even more of your hand in there! NOT GOOD!!  Better to pay the price in money now than in flesh and bone later.


        Graham Moss
        Incline Press
        36 Bow Street
        Oldham OL1 1SJ  England

        http://www.inclinepress.com








        I keep thinking about what happened, and what COULD have happened. I didn't have the lever pulled to print, and if I had, I fear I would have definitely broken (or lost) three finger(tips). That keeps flashing through my head whenever I have a quiet moment, and I wish it would stop! But I do have several jobs to finish (including the one I was printing when this happened), so I guess I'll HAVE to get back out there soon. I think a good day of printing once I'm healed up enough will make me feel a lot better. 
      • Amanda Burton
        Oh, I didn t mean I was going back to the press right away, but maybe in a few weeks or after the holidays. The jobs are for friends or myself, so they will
        Message 3 of 10 , Nov 26, 2010
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          Oh, I didn't mean I was going back to the press right away, but maybe in a few weeks or after the holidays. The jobs are for friends or myself, so they will wait. I will look into slowing down my motor even further; I believe it is a variable speed.Thank you!

          Amanda.


          On Nov 26, 2010, at 9:36 AM, Kathleen Whalen wrote:

           
          Amanda – don’t go back to the press yet. I know you say it is slow running, but it’s obviously not slow enough for you if you don’t have time to place the paper properly. That is the issue to deal with first – you MUST run your press at a slower speed. Tell your customers that the job will be later than you promised, then get a pulley changed or a variable speed motor fitted that will run slower for you. No top finger joints, and you’ll be out of work a long time, and still have to get a slower running speed when the scars have healed – hey, and have to put even more of your hand in there! NOT GOOD!!  Better to pay the price in money now than in flesh and bone later.


          Graham Moss
          Incline Press
          36 Bow Street
          Oldham OL1 1SJ  England

          http://www.inclinepress.com








          I keep thinking about what happened, and what COULD have happened. I didn't have the lever pulled to print, and if I had, I fear I would have definitely broken (or lost) three finger(tips). That keeps flashing through my head whenever I have a quiet moment, and I wish it would stop! But I do have several jobs to finish (including the one I was printing when this happened), so I guess I'll HAVE to get back out there soon. I think a good day of printing once I'm healed up enough will make me feel a lot better. 

        • Peter Fraterdeus
          I noticed a remarkable thing when I dumped the motor from the C&P, and put a treadle on it.... The speed that you can push the press with your leg is exactly
          Message 4 of 10 , Nov 26, 2010
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            I noticed a remarkable thing when I dumped the motor from the C&P, and put a treadle on it....
            The speed that you can push the press with your leg is exactly ergonomically correct for the safe use of the press. These presses were never meant to be motorized. The Kluge, and other suction-feed presses which were initially after-market additions to the C&P enabled the speed to be increased substantially of course, but the old manual job press will never be really safe with a motor on it.

            Unfortunately, the demands of economics often override safety :=\


            On 26 Nov 2010, at 6:40 PM, Amanda Burton wrote:



            Oh, I didn't mean I was going back to the press right away, but maybe in a few weeks or after the holidays. The jobs are for friends or myself, so they will wait. I will look into slowing down my motor even further; I believe it is a variable speed.Thank you!

            Amanda.


            On Nov 26, 2010, at 9:36 AM, Kathleen Whalen wrote:

            Amanda – don’t go back to the press yet. I know you say it is slow running, but it’s obviously not slow enough for you if you don’t have time to place the paper properly. That is the issue to deal with first – you MUST run your press at a slower speed. Tell your customers that the job will be later than you promised, then get a pulley changed or a variable speed motor fitted that will run slower for you. No top finger joints, and you’ll be out of work a long time, and still have to get a slower running speed when the scars have healed – hey, and have to put even more of your hand in there! NOT GOOD!!  Better to pay the price in money now than in flesh and bone later.


            Graham Moss
            Incline Press
            36 Bow Street
            Oldham OL1 1SJ  England

            http://www.inclinepress.com








            I keep thinking about what happened, and what COULD have happened. I didn't have the lever pulled to print, and if I had, I fear I would have definitely broken (or lost) three finger(tips). That keeps flashing through my head whenever I have a quiet moment, and I wish it would stop! But I do have several jobs to finish (including the one I was printing when this happened), so I guess I'll HAVE to get back out there soon. I think a good day of printing once I'm healed up enough will make me feel a lot better. 




          • Paul Phillip
            Hi all when i was an apprentice i got my fingers scraped by the paper grippers it took the skin of to the bone i still have the scars but one pice of advice i
            Message 5 of 10 , Nov 27, 2010
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              Hi all when i was an apprentice i got my fingers scraped by the paper grippers it took
              the skin of to the bone i still have the scars but one pice of advice i got was
              its only a pice of paper after that it never happend again we all learn from our mistakes but hopfuly we can lerne from others to hope your hand gets better soon
              paul

              From: Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@...>
              To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Sat, 27 November, 2010 1:48:58
              Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Emergency --> Inked Press UPDATE (Cross-Posted)

               

              I noticed a remarkable thing when I dumped the motor from the C&P, and put a treadle on it....
              The speed that you can push the press with your leg is exactly ergonomically correct for the safe use of the press. These presses were never meant to be motorized. The Kluge, and other suction-feed presses which were initially after-market additions to the C&P enabled the speed to be increased substantially of course, but the old manual job press will never be really safe with a motor on it.

              Unfortunately, the demands of economics often override safety :=\


              On 26 Nov 2010, at 6:40 PM, Amanda Burton wrote:



              Oh, I didn't mean I was going back to the press right away, but maybe in a few weeks or after the holidays. The jobs are for friends or myself, so they will wait. I will look into slowing down my motor even further; I believe it is a variable speed.Thank you!

              Amanda.


              On Nov 26, 2010, at 9:36 AM, Kathleen Whalen wrote:

              Amanda – don’t go back to the press yet. I know you say it is slow running, but it’s obviously not slow enough for you if you don’t have time to place the paper properly. That is the issue to deal with first – you MUST run your press at a slower speed. Tell your customers that the job will be later than you promised, then get a pulley changed or a variable speed motor fitted that will run slower for you. No top finger joints, and you’ll be out of work a long time, and still have to get a slower running speed when the scars have healed – hey, and have to put even more of your hand in there! NOT GOOD!!  Better to pay the price in money now than in flesh and bone later.


              Graham Moss
              Incline Press
              36 Bow Street
              Oldham OL1 1SJ  England

              http://www.inclinepress.com








              I keep thinking about what happened, and what COULD have happened. I didn't have the lever pulled to print, and if I had, I fear I would have definitely broken (or lost) three finger(tips). That keeps flashing through my head whenever I have a quiet moment, and I wish it would stop! But I do have several jobs to finish (including the one I was printing when this happened), so I guess I'll HAVE to get back out there soon. I think a good day of printing once I'm healed up enough will make me feel a lot better. 





            • Eric
              ... That idea is just not historically correct. Gordons have been power-driven from overhead belt and later by direct motor drive since almost the beginning;
              Message 6 of 10 , Nov 27, 2010
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                --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@...> wrote:
                >
                > These presses were never meant to be motorized. The Kluge, and other suction-feed presses which were initially after-market additions to the C&P enabled the speed to be increased substantially of course, but the old manual job press will never be really safe with a motor on it.


                That idea is just not historically correct. Gordons have been power-driven from overhead belt and later by direct motor drive since almost the beginning; treadle-power is for shops with fewer resources. And many generations of trained printers (and also less-trained personnel under a lead printer) fed them without a lot of of injuries per man-hour. Applying modern OSHA ideas to older technology doesn't explain how people actually worked then. Think of the 1950s, and ask yourself, who would have been treadling then? Only a hobbyist or a feeder at the very bottom of the wage scale.
                --Eric Holub, SF
              • Scott Rubel
                These presses were motorized as often as possible. In the early years, when electricity wasn t available, they were not equipped, of course, with electric
                Message 7 of 10 , Nov 27, 2010
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                  These presses were motorized as often as possible. In the early years,
                  when electricity wasn't available, they were not equipped, of course,
                  with electric motors, but many of them certainly were belt driven by
                  various means, especially in shops with multiple presses. It might be
                  steam, water, or petroleum engines, but these presses could be run
                  quite fast using these power sources.

                  I have one press that I can put the treadle back on easily. It's a
                  trick of the trade for printing on gossamer materials like fabric or
                  see-through rayon. There is no way to do some of the esoteric jobs
                  with a motor. Using the treadle, I can make the impression exactly
                  when I want, then slow the press down long enough to peel the material
                  off the type, because sometimes there's just no way to hold it down.

                  Another advantage of the treadle: Those of use who have treadles will
                  be in more demand when we can't depend on power any longer.

                  --Scott

                  On Nov 27, 2010, at 6:43 AM, Eric wrote:

                  >
                  > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@...>
                  > wrote:
                  >>
                  >> These presses were never meant to be motorized. The Kluge, and
                  >> other suction-feed presses which were initially after-market
                  >> additions to the C&P enabled the speed to be increased
                  >> substantially of course, but the old manual job press will never be
                  >> really safe with a motor on it.
                  >
                  >
                  > That idea is just not historically correct. Gordons have been power-
                  > driven from overhead belt and later by direct motor drive since
                  > almost the beginning; treadle-power is for shops with fewer
                  > resources. And many generations of trained printers (and also less-
                  > trained personnel under a lead printer) fed them without a lot of of
                  > injuries per man-hour. Applying modern OSHA ideas to older
                  > technology doesn't explain how people actually worked then. Think of
                  > the 1950s, and ask yourself, who would have been treadling then?
                  > Only a hobbyist or a feeder at the very bottom of the wage scale.
                  > --Eric Holub, SF
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • typetom@aol.com
                  Hi paul, I m fascinated by your spelling and lack of punctuation and capitals. I know poets who write phonetically and at least one phonetic type font, so ok,
                  Message 8 of 10 , Nov 28, 2010
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                    Hi paul,
                    I'm fascinated by your spelling and lack of punctuation and capitals. I know poets who write phonetically and at least one phonetic type font, so ok, but I wonder how you manage to set or proof read copy, and why it's apprentice rather than aprentis, or why double the p in hapend, or whether it means anything that there are two additional ways to spell lern (or lurn, perhaps). Punctuation is a tradition normally required of an apprentice in printing, as a functional matter of respect for fine details and occasional clarity of syntax.
                     
                    cd b im to pdantk & shd tweet bst wshs 2
                    tom
                     
                     
                    In a message dated 11/27/2010 7:49:47 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, txa14k@... writes:
                    Hi all when i was an apprentice i got my fingers scraped by the paper grippers it took
                    the skin of to the bone i still have the scars but one pice of advice i got was
                    its only a pice of paper after that it never happend again we all learn from our mistakes but hopfuly we can lerne from others to hope your hand gets better soon
                    paul
                  • author50401
                    I d have to say that the motorized press may be the best option for many people to use as treadling can be a distraction. I have an old press (I ve had it
                    Message 9 of 10 , Nov 29, 2010
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                      I'd have to say that the motorized press may be the best option for many people to use as treadling can be a distraction. I have an old press (I've had it since the 1960s) which I use for a variety of work, and have treadled as many as 5000 pieces at a time. You do get into a rhythm with the process, and I can stop the press very rapidly by just holding down the treadle. It is however, a light weight press (Kelsey Union Rotary) and stops at my command easily.

                      I would worry about using the throw-off between impressions on a motorized press as that takes a good deal of effort, and is not meant as the normal process. It would be much better to slow down the press to a manageable speed and establish a rhythm not involving the use of the left arm running the throw-off.

                      These days, auto-feed presses are abundant and not much more expensive than their hand-fed counterparts. If one is concerned with using the hands in the process, one of these would be a wise investment.
                    • Gary
                      Keep the linkage lubed, the throw-off won t break down anytime soon. In some cases there are some very good reasons to switch the throw-out every second
                      Message 10 of 10 , Nov 29, 2010
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                        Keep the linkage lubed, the throw-off won't break down anytime soon. In some cases there are some very good reasons to switch the throw-out every second impression. One of the first tricks of the trade that I ever learned from a seasoned pressman was to double roll a platen jobber for dies with large areas of coverage.


                        -gary

                        --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "author50401" <JohnH@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I'd have to say that the motorized press may be the best option for many people to use as treadling can be a distraction. I have an old press (I've had it since the 1960s) which I use for a variety of work, and have treadled as many as 5000 pieces at a time. You do get into a rhythm with the process, and I can stop the press very rapidly by just holding down the treadle. It is however, a light weight press (Kelsey Union Rotary) and stops at my command easily.
                        >
                        > I would worry about using the throw-off between impressions on a motorized press as that takes a good deal of effort, and is not meant as the normal process. It would be much better to slow down the press to a manageable speed and establish a rhythm not involving the use of the left arm running the throw-off.
                        >
                        > These days, auto-feed presses are abundant and not much more expensive than their hand-fed counterparts. If one is concerned with using the hands in the process, one of these would be a wise investment.
                        >
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