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Re: Split fountain effect on Heidelberg Windmill 10x15

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  • i_goonies
    I really admire those guys. Here a partial answer: http://www.beastpieces.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/0001_StudioOnFire_kostreva_ink_fountain2.jpg
    Message 1 of 16 , Sep 11, 2010
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      I really admire those guys.

      Here a partial answer: http://www.beastpieces.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/0001_StudioOnFire_kostreva_ink_fountain2.jpg

      What are those dividers!? Where can I buy them?

      Thanks!


      --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Amber Ellis-Seguine <amber@...> wrote:
      >
      > I have done it! It is possible you can only get so many prints before the color runs all together, so setting everything up before is key! No disabling of rollers. Just try it and you will see how it works. Also check out the blog by studio on fire called beast pieces they did it recently as well.
      >
      > Sent from my iPhone
      >
      > On Sep 10, 2010, at 4:39 AM, "i_goonies" <neroinferno@...> wrote:
      >
      > > Hello guys,
      > > I'd like to know if anyone successed to print with split fountain effect on the Heidelberg Windmill 10x15.
      > >
      > > I asked the same question on Briar Press but a guy said me isn't possible, because the main roller moves back and forth to spread the ink, so if you put more ink tones on the main roller they will merge each others.
      > >
      > > What about your experience?
      > >
      > > Is possible to disable the oscillating rollers?
      > >
      > > Thanks :)
      > > Fabio
      > >
      > >
      >
    • i_goonies
      Hello Eric, thanks for the reply. Sorry but my English is poor: are you telling me to raise the distance between the form rollers and the rider, so the ink
      Message 2 of 16 , Sep 11, 2010
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        Hello Eric,
        thanks for the reply.

        Sorry but my English is poor: are you telling me to raise the distance between the form rollers and the rider, so the ink won't mix?

        What about the Baldwin method? More details please :)

        Thanks!



        --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Eric" <Megalonyx@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "i_goonies" <neroinferno@> wrote:
        >
        > > Is possible to disable the oscillating rollers?
        >
        > It is possible to adjust amount of oscillation on the Heidelberg cylinder, don't know about the platen. (Without some oscillation you will probably get the ink standing up in ridges.)
        > If not, then you can have the rider and form rollers ground down for a distance slightly more than the amount of oscillator travel; this lowered area will not contact the drum or the form. With a divider in the fountain, and the rollers so treated, the two colors can't mix. You just have to decide where the blank area will be. Center? Off-center?
        > This is adapted from the method Vandercook used to achieve two-color inking on some models. Another approach is the Baldwin attachment that scraped the ink off the drum wherever it was mounted, preventing buildup and mixture. Think I saw an ad once, but not the real thing.
        > --Eric Holub, SF
        >
      • Eric
        ... No, I am describing a modification of the rollers, removing part of the rubber in the area between the two colors you want to keep separate. Slicing or
        Message 3 of 16 , Sep 11, 2010
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          --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "i_goonies" <neroinferno@...> wrote:

          > Sorry but my English is poor: are you telling me to raise the distance between the form rollers and the rider, so the ink won't mix?
          >
          No, I am describing a modification of the rollers, removing part of the rubber in the area between the two colors you want to keep separate. Slicing or grinding a strip (or groove) around the roller circumference, in a width to match the travel of the oscillator. Say the oscillator moves one inch back and forth, a gap of 1-1/8" in the rubber roller surface would prevent any mixture of the two inks; this would be in all the rubber rollers contacting the oscillators. The groove would be a non-inking area, so the rollers could not be used for any job with image in line with the gap. Where that groove is depends on your particular job layout.


          > What about the Baldwin method? More details please :)
          This was an attachment that pressed a small blade against an ink drum or metal roller. It would continually strip off the ink, so no buildup and no mixing. Probably it was never made for the Windmill, I am just pointing out another possibile solution.
          Baldwin made all kinds of press attachments, including fountain dividers and washup devices.
          --Eric Holub, SF
        • Michael Dacey
          If I m not mistaken, the pictures from Studio on Fire are of a Heidelberg cylinder, not a windmill (if it matters). Fabio - are you looking to print with a
          Message 4 of 16 , Sep 11, 2010
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            If I'm not mistaken, the pictures from Studio on Fire are of a Heidelberg cylinder, not a windmill (if it matters).

            Fabio - are you looking to print with a split fountain where the center of the image has a blend of both colors, like shown in the invites linked earlier? Or are you trying to print two (completely separate) colors in one pass? If you don't mind a bit of blend in the middle, you should be fine on a windmill (or vandercook) - just keep adding ink at the outsides, the oscillation could eventually create a single color but it takes a long time. You just have to keep an eye on how things are mixing and tend to the ink throughout the run.

            Good luck,
            Mike Dacey


            Repeat Press
            Custom Letterpress Printing

            9 Olive Square
            Somerville, MA 02143
            617.299.0918
            www.repeatpress.com



            On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 3:26 PM, i_goonies <neroinferno@...> wrote:
             

            Hello Eric,
            thanks for the reply.

            Sorry but my English is poor: are you telling me to raise the distance between the form rollers and the rider, so the ink won't mix?

            What about the Baldwin method? More details please :)

            Thanks!



            --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Eric" <Megalonyx@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "i_goonies" <neroinferno@> wrote:
            >
            > > Is possible to disable the oscillating rollers?
            >
            > It is possible to adjust amount of oscillation on the Heidelberg cylinder, don't know about the platen. (Without some oscillation you will probably get the ink standing up in ridges.)
            > If not, then you can have the rider and form rollers ground down for a distance slightly more than the amount of oscillator travel; this lowered area will not contact the drum or the form. With a divider in the fountain, and the rollers so treated, the two colors can't mix. You just have to decide where the blank area will be. Center? Off-center?
            > This is adapted from the method Vandercook used to achieve two-color inking on some models. Another approach is the Baldwin attachment that scraped the ink off the drum wherever it was mounted, preventing buildup and mixture. Think I saw an ad once, but not the real thing.
            > --Eric Holub, SF
            >


          • keegan onefoot
            Ben s running those prints on a Heidy Cylinder......not a windmill.........I think offset supplier s sell the divider s -k. ... -- 503.820.9116
            Message 5 of 16 , Sep 11, 2010
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              Ben's running those prints on a Heidy Cylinder......not a windmill.........I think offset supplier's sell the divider's

              -k.

              On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 12:22 PM, i_goonies <neroinferno@...> wrote:
               

              I really admire those guys.

              Here a partial answer: http://www.beastpieces.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/0001_StudioOnFire_kostreva_ink_fountain2.jpg

              What are those dividers!? Where can I buy them?

              Thanks!

              --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Amber Ellis-Seguine <amber@...> wrote:
              >
              > I have done it! It is possible you can only get so many prints before the color runs all together, so setting everything up before is key! No disabling of rollers. Just try it and you will see how it works. Also check out the blog by studio on fire called beast pieces they did it recently as well.
              >
              > Sent from my iPhone
              >
              > On Sep 10, 2010, at 4:39 AM, "i_goonies" <neroinferno@...> wrote:
              >
              > > Hello guys,
              > > I'd like to know if anyone successed to print with split fountain effect on the Heidelberg Windmill 10x15.
              > >
              > > I asked the same question on Briar Press but a guy said me isn't possible, because the main roller moves back and forth to spread the ink, so if you put more ink tones on the main roller they will merge each others.
              > >
              > > What about your experience?
              > >
              > > Is possible to disable the oscillating rollers?
              > >
              > > Thanks :)
              > > Fabio
              > >
              > >
              >




              --
              503.820.9116

              ////////////////////////////
              keeganmeegan.com
              onefootinfront.com
              flickr.com/keeganmeegan/
            • matthew lamoureux
              I made mine out of hard wood. Use a caliper to measure the diamiter of the fountain roller. use a hole saw to cut that size hole in a length of wood, then cut
              Message 6 of 16 , Sep 11, 2010
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                I made mine out of hard wood. Use a caliper to measure the diamiter of the fountain roller. use a hole saw to cut that size hole in a length of wood, then cut to the proper shape to fit the fountain. I then drilled another hole through which I could pass a steel bar. I drilled and tapped perpendicular to this hole to insert a thumb screw. The steel bar just fits into the fountain and holds the wedges in place so if there's different amounts of ink on each side they don't get pushed around. I also tape the ends of the wedges to to the fountain to help hold them still. What I really need is a way to hold the bar in position as the ink tends to get under the wedges and pushes them up slightly. 

                Matthew "LAMMY" Lamoureux
                Full Metal Press - Operis servo a specialis nundinae

                Where the press is free and every man able to read, all is safe.
                Thomas Jefferson


                When Benjamin Franklin exited the Constitutional Convention, he was asked by a woman, "Sir, what have you given us?" He replied, "A Republic, Ma'am, if you can keep it".



                From: i_goonies <neroinferno@...>
                To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Sat, September 11, 2010 3:22:22 PM
                Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Split fountain effect on Heidelberg Windmill 10x15

                 

                I really admire those guys.

                Here a partial answer: http://www.beastpieces.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/0001_StudioOnFire_kostreva_ink_fountain2.jpg

                What are those dividers!? Where can I buy them?

                Thanks!

                --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Amber Ellis-Seguine <amber@...> wrote:
                >
                > I have done it! It is possible you can only get so many prints before the color runs all together, so setting everything up before is key! No disabling of rollers. Just try it and you will see how it works. Also check out the blog by studio on fire called beast pieces they did it recently as well.
                >
                > Sent from my iPhone
                >
                > On Sep 10, 2010, at 4:39 AM, "i_goonies" <neroinferno@...> wrote:
                >
                > > Hello guys,
                > > I'd like to know if anyone successed to print with split fountain effect on the Heidelberg Windmill 10x15.
                > >
                > > I asked the same question on Briar Press but a guy said me isn't possible, because the main roller moves back and forth to spread the ink, so if you put more ink tones on the main roller they will merge each others.
                > >
                > > What about your experience?
                > >
                > > Is possible to disable the oscillating rollers?
                > >
                > > Thanks :)
                > > Fabio
                > >
                > >
                >


              • Eric
                ... I ve seen them made of lead too. Just pour lead between a couple of dams made of cardboard. I would be concerned about the temper of the fountain blade or
                Message 7 of 16 , Sep 11, 2010
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                  --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, matthew lamoureux <lamsland@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I made mine out of hard wood.

                  I've seen them made of lead too. Just pour lead between a couple of dams made of cardboard. I would be concerned about the temper of the fountain blade or warping. But the ink wouldn't float them.
                  I have a set of European-made dividers for the OH cylinder, but they are missing the heavy felt inserts that actually contact the fountain roller. I have another set for the Chief 22 made of bronze, and I never figured out if they used them bare or with some additional material. Both these divider styles have thumbscrews that secure them from below the fountain.
                  --Eric Holub, SF
                • i_goonies
                  Hello Matthew, thanks for the tips. You should however protect the side wedge in contact with the roller with something! Fabio
                  Message 8 of 16 , Sep 11, 2010
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                    Hello Matthew,
                    thanks for the tips.

                    You should however protect the side wedge in contact with the roller with something!

                    Fabio


                    --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, matthew lamoureux <lamsland@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I made mine out of hard wood. Use a caliper to measure the diamiter of the
                    > fountain roller. use a hole saw to cut that size hole in a length of wood, then
                    > cut to the proper shape to fit the fountain. I then drilled another hole through
                    > which I could pass a steel bar. I drilled and tapped perpendicular to this hole
                    > to insert a thumb screw. The steel bar just fits into the fountain and holds the
                    > wedges in place so if there's different amounts of ink on each side they don't
                    > get pushed around. I also tape the ends of the wedges to to the fountain to help
                    > hold them still. What I really need is a way to hold the bar in position as the
                    > ink tends to get under the wedges and pushes them up slightly.
                    >
                    > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnPkzSYEqFM
                    > Matthew "LAMMY" Lamoureux
                    > Full Metal Press - Operis servo a specialis nundinae
                    >
                    >
                    > Where the press is free and every man able to read, all is safe.
                    > Thomas Jefferson
                    >
                    >
                    > When Benjamin Franklin exited the Constitutional Convention, he was asked by a
                    > woman, "Sir, what have you given us?" He replied, "A Republic, Ma'am, if you can
                    > keep it".
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: i_goonies <neroinferno@...>
                    > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Sat, September 11, 2010 3:22:22 PM
                    > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Split fountain effect on Heidelberg Windmill 10x15
                    >
                    >
                    > I really admire those guys.
                    >
                    > Here a partial answer:
                    > http://www.beastpieces.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/0001_StudioOnFire_kostreva_ink_fountain2.jpg
                    >
                    >
                    > What are those dividers!? Where can I buy them?
                    >
                    > Thanks!
                    >
                    > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Amber Ellis-Seguine <amber@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I have done it! It is possible you can only get so many prints before the color
                    > >runs all together, so setting everything up before is key! No disabling of
                    > >rollers. Just try it and you will see how it works. Also check out the blog by
                    > >studio on fire called beast pieces they did it recently as well.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Sent from my iPhone
                    > >
                    > > On Sep 10, 2010, at 4:39 AM, "i_goonies" <neroinferno@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > > Hello guys,
                    > > > I'd like to know if anyone successed to print with split fountain effect on
                    > >the Heidelberg Windmill 10x15.
                    > > >
                    > > > I asked the same question on Briar Press but a guy said me isn't possible,
                    > >because the main roller moves back and forth to spread the ink, so if you put
                    > >more ink tones on the main roller they will merge each others.
                    > > >
                    > > > What about your experience?
                    > > >
                    > > > Is possible to disable the oscillating rollers?
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks :)
                    > > > Fabio
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • KalleP
                    Found a interesting patent granted to Heidelberg that illustrated a ink saver that might be used as inspiration. It is intended to strip the ink away from
                    Message 9 of 16 , Sep 12, 2010
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                      Found a interesting patent granted to Heidelberg that illustrated a ink saver that might be used as inspiration. It is intended to strip the ink away from outside the printing area but could be used to strip it from the center portion where the occilating roller would mix the colours. I think it was for ofset presses but the idea may work.

                      http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5603263.pdf

                      As for the wedges in the fountain, if there are any steel plates perhaps strong magnets could be used to keep the wood wedges in place.

                      > > What about the Baldwin method? More details please :)
                      > This was an attachment that pressed a small blade against an ink drum or metal roller. It would continually strip off the ink, so no buildup and no mixing. Probably it was never made for the Windmill, I am just pointing out another possibile solution.
                      > Baldwin made all kinds of press attachments, including fountain dividers and washup devices.
                      > --Eric Holub, SF
                      >
                    • Mike Metz
                      I think you could purchase an extra doctor blade (they are pricey, $100), and with a little ingenuity do the same thing. From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                      Message 10 of 16 , Sep 12, 2010
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                        I think you could purchase an extra doctor blade (they are pricey, $100), and with a little ingenuity do the same thing.

                         

                        From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of KalleP
                        Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 2:34 AM
                        To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Split fountain effect on Heidelberg Windmill 10x15

                         

                         

                        Found a interesting patent granted to Heidelberg that illustrated a ink saver that might be used as inspiration. It is intended to strip the ink away from outside the printing area but could be used to strip it from the center portion where the occilating roller would mix the colours. I think it was for ofset presses but the idea may work.

                        http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5603263.pdf

                        As for the wedges in the fountain, if there are any steel plates perhaps strong magnets could be used to keep the wood wedges in place.

                        > > What about the Baldwin method? More details please :)
                        > This was an attachment that pressed a small blade against an ink drum or
                        metal roller. It would continually strip off the ink, so no buildup and no mixing. Probably it was never made for the Windmill, I am just pointing out another possibile solution.
                        > Baldwin made all kinds of press attachments, including fountain dividers
                        and washup devices.
                        > --Eric Holub, SF
                        >

                      • matthew lamoureux
                        I don t think the wood is going to do anything to the steel honestly. It s not like I use them for weeks on end in the same place either. If they were made of
                        Message 11 of 16 , Sep 12, 2010
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                          I don't think the wood is going to do anything to the steel honestly. It's not like I use them for weeks on end in the same place either. If they were made of a metal of some sort I could see them having a felt where they contact the fountain roller. 
                           
                          Matthew "LAMMY" Lamoureux
                          Full Metal Press - Operis servo a specialis nundinae

                          Where the press is free and every man able to read, all is safe.
                          Thomas Jefferson


                          When Benjamin Franklin exited the Constitutional Convention, he was asked by a woman, "Sir, what have you given us?" He replied, "A Republic, Ma'am, if you can keep it".



                          From: i_goonies <neroinferno@...>
                          To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sun, September 12, 2010 2:34:47 AM
                          Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Split fountain effect on Heidelberg Windmill 10x15

                           

                          Hello Matthew,
                          thanks for the tips.

                          You should however protect the side wedge in contact with the roller with something!

                          Fabio

                          --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, matthew lamoureux <lamsland@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I made mine out of hard wood. Use a caliper to measure the diamiter of the
                          > fountain roller. use a hole saw to cut that size hole in a length of wood, then
                          > cut to the proper shape to fit the fountain. I then drilled another hole through
                          > which I could pass a steel bar. I drilled and tapped perpendicular to this hole
                          > to insert a thumb screw. The steel bar just fits into the fountain and holds the
                          > wedges in place so if there's different amounts of ink on each side they don't
                          > get pushed around. I also tape the ends of the wedges to to the fountain to help
                          > hold them still. What I really need is a way to hold the bar in position as the
                          > ink tends to get under the wedges and pushes them up slightly.
                          >
                          > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnPkzSYEqFM
                          > Matthew "LAMMY" Lamoureux
                          > Full Metal Press - Operis servo a specialis nundinae
                          >
                          >
                          > Where the press is free and every man able to read, all is safe.
                          > Thomas Jefferson
                          >
                          >
                          > When Benjamin Franklin exited the Constitutional Convention, he was asked by a
                          > woman, "Sir, what have you given us?" He replied, "A Republic, Ma'am, if you can
                          > keep it".
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ________________________________
                          > From: i_goonies <neroinferno@...>
                          > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Sat, September 11, 2010 3:22:22 PM
                          > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Split fountain effect on Heidelberg Windmill 10x15
                          >
                          >
                          > I really admire those guys.
                          >
                          > Here a partial answer:
                          > http://www.beastpieces.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/0001_StudioOnFire_kostreva_ink_fountain2.jpg
                          >
                          >
                          > What are those dividers!? Where can I buy them?
                          >
                          > Thanks!
                          >
                          > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Amber Ellis-Seguine <amber@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > I have done it! It is possible you can only get so many prints before the color
                          > >runs all together, so setting everything up before is key! No disabling of
                          > >rollers. Just try it and you will see how it works. Also check out the blog by
                          > >studio on fire called beast pieces they did it recently as well.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Sent from my iPhone
                          > >
                          > > On Sep 10, 2010, at 4:39 AM, "i_goonies" <neroinferno@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > > Hello guys,
                          > > > I'd like to know if anyone successed to print with split fountain effect on
                          > >the Heidelberg Windmill 10x15.
                          > > >
                          > > > I asked the same question on Briar Press but a guy said me isn't possible,
                          > >because the main roller moves back and forth to spread the ink, so if you put
                          > >more ink tones on the main roller they will merge each others.
                          > > >
                          > > > What about your experience?
                          > > >
                          > > > Is possible to disable the oscillating rollers?
                          > > >
                          > > > Thanks :)
                          > > > Fabio
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >


                        • i_goonies
                          Thanks :) I believe this can be a good solution.
                          Message 12 of 16 , Sep 13, 2010
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Thanks :)

                            I believe this can be a good solution.



                            --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "KalleP" <kalle@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Found a interesting patent granted to Heidelberg that illustrated a ink saver that might be used as inspiration. It is intended to strip the ink away from outside the printing area but could be used to strip it from the center portion where the occilating roller would mix the colours. I think it was for ofset presses but the idea may work.
                            >
                            > http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5603263.pdf
                            >
                            > As for the wedges in the fountain, if there are any steel plates perhaps strong magnets could be used to keep the wood wedges in place.
                            >
                            > > > What about the Baldwin method? More details please :)
                            > > This was an attachment that pressed a small blade against an ink drum or metal roller. It would continually strip off the ink, so no buildup and no mixing. Probably it was never made for the Windmill, I am just pointing out another possibile solution.
                            > > Baldwin made all kinds of press attachments, including fountain dividers and washup devices.
                            > > --Eric Holub, SF
                            > >
                            >
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