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C + P in Classroom

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  • slovenlyme
    Good afternoon, everyone. I oversee a university letterpress studio with four Vandercooks + a bunch of type. Recently we learned we have a C + P in deep
    Message 1 of 19 , Aug 9, 2010
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      Good afternoon, everyone.

      I oversee a university letterpress studio with four Vandercooks + a bunch of type. Recently we learned we have a C + P in deep storage across campus. We're trying to decide whether to sell the press or reintegrate it into the studio. Evidently it was removed 25+ years ago due to safety concerns. I don't know whether a student actually got their hand stuck or whether that was perceived as a real danger. It is motorized.

      Has anyone used this type of press in a university setting? Our studio is open access to enrolled letterpress students 24 hours a day, which means sometimes they're alone there at 3:00 am, sleep-deprived, jamming out projects. It would be helpful to hear whether other schools teach on the presses and how they handle the liability issue.

      Thanks for your help!
    • CHAPMAN RIDER
      If possible, please post a picture of the press so we can see if there are any guards in place. ... From: slovenlyme Subject:
      Message 2 of 19 , Aug 9, 2010
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        If possible, please post a picture of the press so we can see if there are any guards in place.

        --- On Mon, 8/9/10, slovenlyme <rebeccachilders@...> wrote:

        From: slovenlyme <rebeccachilders@...>
        Subject: [PPLetterpress] C + P in Classroom
        To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Monday, August 9, 2010, 4:01 PM

         

        Good afternoon, everyone.

        I oversee a university letterpress studio with four Vandercooks + a bunch of type. Recently we learned we have a C + P in deep storage across campus. We're trying to decide whether to sell the press or reintegrate it into the studio. Evidently it was removed 25+ years ago due to safety concerns. I don't know whether a student actually got their hand stuck or whether that was perceived as a real danger. It is motorized.

        Has anyone used this type of press in a university setting? Our studio is open access to enrolled letterpress students 24 hours a day, which means sometimes they're alone there at 3:00 am, sleep-deprived, jamming out projects. It would be helpful to hear whether other schools teach on the presses and how they handle the liability issue.

        Thanks for your help!


      • Jessica Spring
        I teach undergraduate students at Pacific Lutheran University s Elliott Press using two C&Ps. They are both equipped with treadles (one was retrofitted with an
        Message 3 of 19 , Aug 9, 2010
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          I teach undergraduate students at Pacific Lutheran University's
          Elliott Press using two C&Ps. They are both equipped with treadles
          (one was retrofitted with an affordable replacement treadle from the
          Hern Foundry). I've found that students who learn to typeset and lock
          up type in a chase (without the benefit of a flat bed and gravity) may
          face some extra challenge and frustration compared to those who start
          on a Vandercook, but they ultimately learn strong craft. Experienced
          students are allowed to print on our motorized Universal 3 and they
          make the transition easily.

          In terms of safety in our shop, there are basic common sense rules as
          well as a TA that monitors open studio sessions. It seems to me that
          would be a wise practice regardless of the press model—aside from
          injuring themselves, beginners can do serious damage to a press.
          Though we have a motor for one of our C&Ps, I wouldn't have students
          working with it—the chance of injury doesn't seem worth potentially
          faster printing, especially when we are emphasizing quality over
          quantity in a learning environment.

          The other benefit of learning to print on a platen is their
          availability. Those students hoping to continue pursuing letterpress
          printing on their own are much more likely to find a platen for sale.

          . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
          Jessica Spring
          http://www.springtidepress.com




          On Aug 9, 2010, at 1:01 PM, slovenlyme wrote:

          > Good afternoon, everyone.
          >
          > I oversee a university letterpress studio with four Vandercooks + a
          > bunch of type. Recently we learned we have a C + P in deep storage
          > across campus. We're trying to decide whether to sell the press or
          > reintegrate it into the studio. Evidently it was removed 25+ years
          > ago due to safety concerns. I don't know whether a student actually
          > got their hand stuck or whether that was perceived as a real danger.
          > It is motorized.
          >
          > Has anyone used this type of press in a university setting? Our
          > studio is open access to enrolled letterpress students 24 hours a
          > day, which means sometimes they're alone there at 3:00 am, sleep-
          > deprived, jamming out projects. It would be helpful to hear whether
          > other schools teach on the presses and how they handle the liability
          > issue.
          >
          > Thanks for your help!
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
        • heytrollop
          Mills College has one in their studio... You might check in with Kathy Walkup and see how they handle it. I m not sure if it s motorized or not. When I went to
          Message 4 of 19 , Aug 9, 2010
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            Mills College has one in their studio... You might check in with Kathy Walkup and see how they handle it. I'm not sure if it's motorized or not. When I went to school there we only had a vandercook. At that time we also had the studio available at any hour for use. And honestly having been one of those sleep deprived students, I'm not sure I'd want to run a motorized c&p in that condition!

            That said, it's great for students to learn to use these, as out here in the real world that's a more common press for them to be using at home.

            I only learned to use them a couple years ago at Foothill College. They have an old reliable which is treadle powered, but equally dangerous if you get a hand in there. The studio is only open to students who have passed safety training and there must be two students present at all times or a faculty member must be present. And it's only available during the daytime, or during class. So that's how they handle it there.

            You might also see if the c&p is set up to use a treadle, and convert it. Or if it's a variable speed motor that can be more user friendly.

            best,
            Raven

            --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "slovenlyme" <rebeccachilders@...> wrote:
            >
            > Good afternoon, everyone.
            >
            > I oversee a university letterpress studio with four Vandercooks + a bunch of type. Recently we learned we have a C + P in deep storage across campus. We're trying to decide whether to sell the press or reintegrate it into the studio. Evidently it was removed 25+ years ago due to safety concerns. I don't know whether a student actually got their hand stuck or whether that was perceived as a real danger. It is motorized.
            >
            > Has anyone used this type of press in a university setting? Our studio is open access to enrolled letterpress students 24 hours a day, which means sometimes they're alone there at 3:00 am, sleep-deprived, jamming out projects. It would be helpful to hear whether other schools teach on the presses and how they handle the liability issue.
            >
            > Thanks for your help!
            >
          • Gerald Lange
            Hello I would first ask the University s legal department about this. I believe that OSHA would frown on this, especially in an educational facility. There was
            Message 5 of 19 , Aug 9, 2010
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              Hello

              I would first ask the University's legal department about this. I
              believe that OSHA would frown on this, especially in an educational
              facility. There was something mentioned about this on the list a while
              back. The restriction applies to businesses as well. Something to the
              effect that only an owner, not employees, can operate the machine, even
              with flywheel shields.

              Gerald
              http://BielerPress.blogspot.com

              On 8/9/10 1:01 PM, slovenlyme wrote:
              > Good afternoon, everyone.
              >
              > I oversee a university letterpress studio with four Vandercooks + a bunch of type. Recently we learned we have a C + P in deep storage across campus. We're trying to decide whether to sell the press or reintegrate it into the studio. Evidently it was removed 25+ years ago due to safety concerns. I don't know whether a student actually got their hand stuck or whether that was perceived as a real danger. It is motorized.
              >
              > Has anyone used this type of press in a university setting? Our studio is open access to enrolled letterpress students 24 hours a day, which means sometimes they're alone there at 3:00 am, sleep-deprived, jamming out projects. It would be helpful to hear whether other schools teach on the presses and how they handle the liability issue.
              >
              > Thanks for your help!
              >
              >
            • Jessica Spring
              One more point I forgot--we have students print in teams especially until they feel comfortable operating the treadle. One student will turn the flywheel while
              Message 6 of 19 , Aug 9, 2010
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                One more point I forgot--we have students print in teams especially
                until they feel comfortable operating the treadle. One student will
                turn the flywheel while the "printer" feeds the press. The helpers
                learn a lot before they've even started their own project.
                . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
                Jessica Spring
                http://www.springtidepress.com




                On Aug 9, 2010, at 1:01 PM, slovenlyme wrote:

                > Good afternoon, everyone.
                >
                > I oversee a university letterpress studio with four Vandercooks + a
                > bunch of type. Recently we learned we have a C + P in deep storage
                > across campus. We're trying to decide whether to sell the press or
                > reintegrate it into the studio. Evidently it was removed 25+ years
                > ago due to safety concerns. I don't know whether a student actually
                > got their hand stuck or whether that was perceived as a real danger.
                > It is motorized.
                >
                > Has anyone used this type of press in a university setting? Our
                > studio is open access to enrolled letterpress students 24 hours a
                > day, which means sometimes they're alone there at 3:00 am, sleep-
                > deprived, jamming out projects. It would be helpful to hear whether
                > other schools teach on the presses and how they handle the liability
                > issue.
                >
                > Thanks for your help!
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
              • rebecca childers
                That s right, I ve never printed on a C + P myself. I m interested in learning, though, partly because, as you say, such equipment opens up new printing
                Message 7 of 19 , Aug 9, 2010
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                  That's right, I've never printed on a C + P myself. I'm interested in learning, though, partly because, as you say, such equipment opens up new printing possibilities, and also because it might make my students slightly more employable. The various boutique print shops around here all use platen presses. I've taught letterpress for 15 years, but only on Vandercooks.

                  How did OSHA clamp down on the school print shop? Was it specifically related to the "dangers" of printing on motorized platen presses?
                • Terrence Chouinard
                  Hey Rebecca You could contact Mike Kaylor. Remember the Lit House had a row of C&Ps that he taught students on and his were all motorized I believe. While at
                  Message 8 of 19 , Aug 9, 2010
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                    Hey Rebecca

                    You could contact Mike Kaylor. Remember the Lit House had a row of C&Ps that he taught students on and his were all motorized I believe. 

                    While at Wells occasionally a student might use my treadle-operated Pearl but we're talking a small Pearl and I encouraged them to focus and get into that production or editioning mentality. Not many had the eye-hand coordination for it though.

                    I know John Horn in Little Rock advocates for the instruction of platen presses in the classroom experience. So much so that he has outfitted motorized C&Ps with a device that reduces the machines speed without causing it to lose torque. Might be useful to contact him.

                    As for teaching and platens, I have my 3 & 5 year olds starting out on a tabletop platen. So far they think printing is a cinch.

                    All food for thought.

                    T


                    On Aug 9, 2010, at 4:04 PM, rebecca childers wrote:

                    That's right, I've never printed on a C + P myself. I'm interested in learning, though, partly because, as you say, such equipment opens up new printing possibilities, and also because it might make my students slightly more employable. The various boutique print shops around here all use platen presses. I've taught letterpress for 15 years, but only on Vandercooks.

                    How did OSHA clamp down on the school print shop? Was it specifically related to the "dangers" of printing on motorized platen presses?



                  • Scott Rubel
                    The danger is in getting your hand smashed, mostly. Alternate dangers arise from the exposed flywheels and gears. I m sure most schools either don t take on
                    Message 9 of 19 , Aug 9, 2010
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                      The danger is in getting your hand smashed, mostly. Alternate dangers arise from the exposed flywheels and gears.

                      I'm sure most schools either don't take on the liability of having a motorized platen press, or their insurance asks them not to run them. They did make safety devices for these presses that push your hand out of the way as it closes, but most of those devices were removed by operators and you don't see them around so much anymore.

                      The effects of law suits and of OSHA are far-reaching, even when they don't visit your facility directly. About ten years ago I received a letter from Miehle (or someone representing them) stating that if I own a press made prior to 1964, I was advised to throw it away because it could not be made safe. The letter was obviously sent as a result of some lawsuit suffered by the company, and they covered themselves by sending it to all possible Miehle owners.

                      --Scott

                      On Aug 9, 2010, at 2:04 PM, rebecca childers wrote:

                      > That's right, I've never printed on a C + P myself. I'm interested in learning, though, partly because, as you say, such equipment opens up new printing possibilities, and also because it might make my students slightly more employable. The various boutique print shops around here all use platen presses. I've taught letterpress for 15 years, but only on Vandercooks.
                      >
                      > How did OSHA clamp down on the school print shop? Was it specifically related to the "dangers" of printing on motorized platen presses?
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • bielerpr
                      Rebecca There are a couple of threads over at Briar Press Discussions that might be of interest. Here s one of them: http://www.briarpress.org/18358 I know of
                      Message 10 of 19 , Aug 9, 2010
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                        Rebecca

                        There are a couple of threads over at Briar Press Discussions that might be of interest. Here's one of them:

                        http://www.briarpress.org/18358

                        I know of injuries caused by C&Ps. One, an employee of one of my clients permanently lost the use of his hand. The press caught it in such a manner that the hand literally blew apart. He is now living in Spain on permanent disability.

                        Then again, automated Vandercooks can be quite dangerous as well. One of my ex-students, a guitarist for Modest Mouse, caught his hand between the feedboard and the returning cylinder in the late night hours while printing alone in his garage. A faculty member at an education institution where I work did the same thing.

                        I will absolute no longer allow students to work on C&Ps or automated cylinders. I could not bear the responsibility if they were to be maimed for life simply because of a moment of carelessness or inattentiveness. Educational settings are quite social and distracting. Add to this the use of mobile devices, cell phones, etc., that have become almost biologic attachments. . . and you have an environment that is potentially far more hazardous than the work place.

                        I do not see an "employment value" to teaching folks how to use an old platen jobber in an educational facility. There may be more and more successful letterpress operations these days that use these machines-because of the public interest in invitational card printing-but I see more value in teaching students how to print well, what to look for, how to achieve this or that, rather than the purely technical aspects of how to operate specific kinds of printing presses.

                        Gerald
                        http://BielerPress.blogspot.com




                        --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, rebecca childers <rebeccachilders@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > That's right, I've never printed on a C + P myself. I'm interested in learning, though, partly because, as you say, such equipment opens up new printing possibilities, and also because it might make my students slightly more employable. The various boutique print shops around here all use platen presses. I've taught letterpress for 15 years, but only on Vandercooks.
                        >
                        > How did OSHA clamp down on the school print shop? Was it specifically related to the "dangers" of printing on motorized platen presses?
                        >
                      • bielerpr
                        Rebecca There are a couple of threads over at Briar Press Discussions that might be of interest. Here s one of them: http://www.briarpress.org/18358 I know of
                        Message 11 of 19 , Aug 9, 2010
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                          Rebecca

                          There are a couple of threads over at Briar Press Discussions that might be of interest. Here's one of them:

                          http://www.briarpress.org/18358

                          I know of injuries caused by C&Ps. One, an employee of one of my clients permanently lost the use of his hand. The press caught it in such a manner that the hand literally blew apart. He is now living in Spain on permanent disability.

                          Then again, automated Vandercooks can be quite dangerous as well. One of my ex-students, a guitarist for Modest Mouse, caught his hand between the feedboard and the returning cylinder in the late night hours while printing alone in his garage. A faculty member at an education institution where I work did the same thing.

                          I will absolute no longer allow students to work on C&Ps or automated cylinders. I could not bear the responsibility if they were to be maimed for life simply because of a moment of carelessness or inattentiveness. Educational settings are quite social and distracting. Add to this the use of mobile devices, cell phones, etc., that have become almost biologic attachments. . . and you have an environment that is potentially far more hazardous than the work place.

                          I do not see an "employment value" to teaching folks how to use an old platen jobber in an educational facility. There may be more and more successful letterpress operations these days that use these machines-because of the public interest in invitational card printing-but I see more value in teaching students how to print well, what to look for, how to achieve this or that, rather than the purely technical aspects of how to operate specific kinds of printing presses.

                          Gerald
                          http://BielerPress.blogspot.com




                          --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, rebecca childers <rebeccachilders@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > That's right, I've never printed on a C + P myself. I'm interested in learning, though, partly because, as you say, such equipment opens up new printing possibilities, and also because it might make my students slightly more employable. The various boutique print shops around here all use platen presses. I've taught letterpress for 15 years, but only on Vandercooks.
                          >
                          > How did OSHA clamp down on the school print shop? Was it specifically related to the "dangers" of printing on motorized platen presses?
                          >
                        • Incline Press
                          . . . -we have students print in teams especially until they feel comfortable operating the treadle. One student will turn the flywheel while the printer
                          Message 12 of 19 , Aug 9, 2010
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                            Re: [PPLetterpress] C + P in Classroom . . . -we have students print in teams especially
                            until they feel comfortable operating the treadle. One student will
                            turn the flywheel while the "printer" feeds the press. The helpers
                            learn a lot before they've even started their own project.
                            . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
                            Jessica Spring
                            http://www.springtidepress.com

                            That’s how I operate with a class of new students, initially with me on the flywheel  –  reduces my tensions about accidents to zero!

                            Graham Moss
                            Incline Press
                            36 Bow Street
                            Oldham OL1 1SJ  England

                            http://www.inclinepress.com






                          • Ion Gorun
                            On health and safety in letterpress: as a recent certified health and safety expert (not in the US though, but in a remote European country), I learnt that the
                            Message 13 of 19 , Aug 10, 2010
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                              On health and safety in letterpress: as a recent certified health and safety expert (not in the US though, but in a remote European country), I learnt that the first safety measure is to replace an old equipment with a new one, that has all the regulatory safety features - which is part of why Miehle might have sent that letter. But, as we're a letterpress workshop and we _want_ and love to use old equipment, we can't do that. So, there are two other ways:
                              - minimizing the occurence of risks (such as, where possible, installing phyiscal barriers that were not initially provided for)
                              - informing the users - training them, limiting access to equipment only to persons fully trained, and signaling of danger areas/operations.

                              When people are visiting us, we start off by having a thorough discussion on do's and dont's while on our premises, and we even hand them written instructions. Then we record the fact that we informed the visitors - that is specifically provided by our legislation here.

                              Best regards,
                              Ion



                              2010/8/10 Scott Rubel <scott@...>
                              The danger is in getting your hand smashed, mostly. Alternate dangers arise from the exposed flywheels and gears.

                              I'm sure most schools either don't take on the liability of having a motorized platen press, or their insurance asks them not to run them. They did make safety devices for these presses that push your hand out of the way as it closes, but most of those devices were removed by operators and you don't see them around so much anymore.

                              The effects of law suits and of OSHA are far-reaching, even when they don't visit your facility directly. About ten years ago I received a letter from Miehle (or someone representing them) stating that if I own a press made prior to 1964, I was advised to throw it away because it could not be made safe. The letter was obviously sent as a result of some lawsuit suffered by the company, and they covered themselves by sending it to all possible Miehle owners.

                              --Scott

                              On Aug 9, 2010, at 2:04 PM, rebecca childers wrote:

                              > That's right, I've never printed on a C + P myself. I'm interested in learning, though, partly because, as you say, such equipment opens up new printing possibilities, and also because it might make my students slightly more employable. The various boutique print shops around here all use platen presses. I've taught letterpress for 15 years, but only on Vandercooks.
                              >
                              > How did OSHA clamp down on the school print shop? Was it specifically related to the "dangers" of printing on motorized platen presses?
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >



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                            • Fritz Klinke
                              It was Kluge that sent out these letters, as well as magazine ads, for their unguarded platens, but these came out more like 30 years ago. Miehle did not make
                              Message 14 of 19 , Aug 10, 2010
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                                 It was Kluge that sent out these letters, as well as magazine ads, for their unguarded platens, but these came out more like 30 years ago. Miehle did not make platens and was out of business 10 years ago. Kluge will not support any of the the pre-1960 platens and still advises scrapping them as being potentially unsafe.
                                 
                                Fritz
                                 
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 3:46 PM
                                Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] C + P in Classroom

                                 

                                The danger is in getting your hand smashed, mostly. Alternate dangers arise from the exposed flywheels and gears.

                                I'm sure most schools either don't take on the liability of having a motorized platen press, or their insurance asks them not to run them. They did make safety devices for these presses that push your hand out of the way as it closes, but most of those devices were removed by operators and you don't see them around so much anymore.

                                The effects of law suits and of OSHA are far-reaching, even when they don't visit your facility directly. About ten years ago I received a letter from Miehle (or someone representing them) stating that if I own a press made prior to 1964, I was advised to throw it away because it could not be made safe. The letter was obviously sent as a result of some lawsuit suffered by the company, and they covered themselves by sending it to all possible Miehle owners.

                                --Scott

                                On Aug 9, 2010, at 2:04 PM, rebecca childers wrote:

                                > That's right, I've never printed on a C + P myself. I'm interested in learning, though, partly because, as you say, such equipment opens up new printing possibilities, and also because it might make my students slightly more employable. The various boutique print shops around here all use platen presses. I've taught letterpress for 15 years, but only on Vandercooks.
                                >
                                > How did OSHA clamp down on the school print shop? Was it specifically related to the "dangers" of printing on motorized platen presses?
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >

                              • rebecca childers
                                There is a flywheel guard in place covering both the flywheel and gears. We haven t moved it yet, but we did rewire the motor to test everything. The motor
                                Message 15 of 19 , Aug 10, 2010
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                                  There is a flywheel guard in place covering both the flywheel and gears. We haven't moved it yet, but we did rewire the motor to test everything. The motor works, but needs refurbished — is there something we should have done to it, regardless of whether we keep it or sell it, to improve safety? Thank you all for your generous advice, links, and information! This discussion has been valuable.

                                • Lance Williams
                                  The only other safety item is a platen guard. But, I don t know where you would get one today except off a scrapped press ( or possibly Dave Churchman in
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Aug 10, 2010
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                                    The only other safety item is a platen guard.  But, I don't know where you would get one today except off a scrapped press ( or possibly Dave Churchman in Indianapolis??)  I posted pictures of the platen guards on both our 8x12 NS and our 10x15 Craftsman to the photos section of the PPLetterpress Yahoo group a few years ago.  Link here:
                                     
                                     
                                    - Lance Williams
                                    Williams Stationery Co.
                                    Camden, New York
                                    APA #785
                                     
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    Sent: 8/10/2010 12:57:33 PM
                                    Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: C + P in Classroom

                                    There is a flywheel guard in place covering both the flywheel and gears. We haven't moved it yet, but we did rewire the motor to test everything. The motor works, but needs refurbished � is there something we should have done to it, regardless of whether we keep it or sell it, to improve safety? Thank you all for your generous advice, links, and information! This discussion has been valuable.

                                  • Scott Rubel
                                    Those are great shots. Reminds me of the ones I pulled off and sold on e-bay years ago. I have seen another method of protecting students hands. Put an eye
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Aug 10, 2010
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                                      Those are great shots. Reminds me of the ones I pulled off and sold on e-bay years ago.

                                      I have seen another method of protecting students' hands. Put an eye bold in the ceiling and run a rope with a loop in it. It's good if there is a spring involved, too. Make the student feed the press with the feed hand through the loop and make sure it's just long enough to keep a hand from diving into the danger zone. Of course nobody will like to work this way, but it seems a little less annoying than fighting with the guard pushing your hand up.

                                      --Scott

                                      On Aug 10, 2010, at 10:07 AM, Lance Williams wrote:



                                      The only other safety item is a platen guard.  But, I don't know where you would get one today except off a scrapped press ( or possibly Dave Churchman in Indianapolis??)  I posted pictures of the platen guards on both our 8x12 NS and our 10x15 Craftsman to the photos section of the PPLetterpress Yahoo group a few years ago.  Link here:
                                       
                                       
                                      - Lance Williams
                                      Williams Stationery Co.
                                      Camden, New York
                                      APA #785
                                       
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      Sent: 8/10/2010 12:57:33 PM
                                      Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: C + P in Classroom

                                      There is a flywheel guard in place covering both the flywheel and gears. We haven't moved it yet, but we did rewire the motor to test everything. The motor works, but needs refurbished — is there something we should have done to it, regardless of whether we keep it or sell it, to improve safety? Thank you all for your generous advice, links, and information! This discussion has been valuable.




                                    • Lance Williams
                                      In 30+ years of working with these two presses, I have never fought with the platen guards. They clear the platen very quickly after impression, well before
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Aug 10, 2010
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                                        In 30+ years of working with these two presses, I have never "fought" with the platen guards.  They clear the platen very quickly after impression, well before the platen is fully open for feed/delivery, and don't start to lift until the platen starts to rotate for impression.
                                         
                                        The very few times I have come in contact with the platen guard during feeding, I would have to say it's a automatic and instinctive reaction to just pull your hand back away from the press at the slightest little touch of the guard at the bottom of your wrist....  I don't think I would ever operate a hand fed press without one, personally....
                                         
                                        - Lance Williams
                                        Williams Stationery Co.
                                        Camden, New York
                                        APA #785
                                         
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        Sent: 8/10/2010 1:15:12 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: C + P in Classroom

                                        Those are great shots. Reminds me of the ones I pulled off and sold on e-bay years ago.

                                        I have seen another method of protecting students' hands. Put an eye bold in the ceiling and run a rope with a loop in it. It's good if there is a spring involved, too. Make the student feed the press with the feed hand through the loop and make sure it's just long enough to keep a hand from diving into the danger zone. Of course nobody will like to work this way, but it seems a little less annoying than fighting with the guard pushing your hand up.

                                        --Scott

                                        On Aug 10, 2010, at 10:07 AM, Lance Williams wrote:



                                        The only other safety item is a platen guard.  But, I don't know where you would get one today except off a scrapped press ( or possibly Dave Churchman in Indianapolis??)  I posted pictures of the platen guards on both our 8x12 NS and our 10x15 Craftsman to the photos section of the PPLetterpress Yahoo group a few years ago.  Link here:
                                         
                                         
                                        - Lance Williams
                                        Williams Stationery Co.
                                        Camden, New York
                                        APA #785
                                         
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        Sent: 8/10/2010 12:57:33 PM
                                        Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: C + P in Classroom

                                        There is a flywheel guard in place covering both the flywheel and gears. We haven't moved it yet, but we did rewire the motor to test everything. The motor works, but needs refurbished � is there something we should have done to it, regardless of whether we keep it or sell it, to improve safety? Thank you all for your generous advice, links, and information! This discussion has been valuable.




                                      • typetom@aol.com
                                        Decent training and systematic practice should eliminate the need to live in fear of the C&P platen. The press is designed with a pause in the full open
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Aug 10, 2010
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                                          Decent training and systematic practice should eliminate the need to live in fear of the C&P platen. The press is designed with a pause in the full open position so there is time to feed the paper; the platen moves away from you so there is a clear signal to get your hands out of the way. Only by following mis-fed paper down into the press or some odd behavior out of the normal pattern will make danger.
                                           
                                          Of course this assumes the speed of the motor can be controlled so a comfortable pattern is possible; and it assumes the operator can avoid dangerous situations when oiling and when adjusting parts that can move - experience and knowledge of the motions of the press should be part of the training. Gear covers, a treadle that allows operator control of the speed, and considerable practice with the throw-off are good ideas. Close observation by an instructor is important. Training needs to stress awareness of patterns of movement and the importance of routine practices (for safety but also for ergonomics, and for protection of the type and the equipment as well).
                                           
                                          One true danger spot: the feed table needs to be mounted back far enough to allow your hand to hold onto its front edge when the platen is fully open. Many presses have the feed table too far forward and eventually a crushed hand is inevitable.
                                           
                                          One major repair danger: the long springs in the roller side arms are under enormous pressure and should not be disassembled without great caution. Also, the bed and the gears can move unexpectedly if the press is partially disassembled, so should be secured in the process.
                                           
                                          26 years continuous work on my 10x15 C&P, with many visitors and interns in my shop, no injuries. I consider the guillotine lever paper cutter much more dangerous, and I have been pinched several times by a Kelsey and other small tabletop presses, never by the 10x15 platen.
                                           
                                          My recommendation is to include such a press in school training programs. Training solely on a Vandercook may not require the exacting justification and lock-up that is essential on a platen, where the form must be lifted. Adjustments and packing and positioning on a platen teach perspectives and strategies that bring an understanding of the mechanics of printing which might often seem effortless on the Vandercook. And certain kinds of production are much more appropriate for a platen press, while students who have learned only on a flatbed cylinder press try to acquire and use the wrong equipment because it is more comfortable for them - they need to be comfortable with both kinds of presses. 
                                           
                                          Best wishes, Tom
                                           
                                          Tom Parson/ Now It's Up To You
                                          157 S Logan, Denver CO 80209
                                          (303) 777-8951 - home & letterpress printshop
                                          (720) 480-5358 - cranky cellphone
                                          typetom@...
                                          www.froglok.com/typetom (way out of date website!)




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