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Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Re-Ground MERTS

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  • Scott Rubel
    I don t know about steel trucks, but I switched to delrin at least six years ago and it hasn t worn down perceptibly. I think it is a good way to go and
    Message 1 of 21 , Apr 26 2:56 PM
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      I don't know about steel trucks, but I switched to delrin at least six years ago and it hasn't worn down perceptibly. I think it is a good way to go and probably quieter than steel. It is also very easy to turn on a lathe in case you order them and they're just a bit too large.

      --Scott

      On Apr 26, 2010, at 2:51 PM, amanda burton wrote:



      Thanks everyone! It looks like I'll be moving on from my MERTS, then. Does anyone still sell steel trucks? I didn't see any on NA's site. I suppose they'd be more expensive than plastic, but I'd like to check out my options.

      Amanda.
       

      On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 2:17 PM, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@...> wrote:


      On 26 Apr 2010, at 4:05 PM, Eric wrote:
      > ...
      >     A previous owner of Cowan said MERT rubbers should be changed every year. Not likely! Sometimes they are so cracked and hard, I wonder what century they were installed.
      > --Eric Holub, SF


      Last millenium, for sure ;-)

      Yes, of course, they were very helpful for composition rollers.

      I've still got a drawer full of nice clean unused MERT rubbers.

      Peter Fraterdeus
      Exquisite letterpress takes time™
      http://slowprint.com/

      IdeasWords : Idea Swords
      Communication Strategy
      Semiotx.com  @ideaswords



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      -- 
      *****

      Amanda Burton
      Asterisk Press
      asteriskpress.etsy.com





    • Matt Kelsey
      In addition to Eric s comments about MERTs being used to compensate for composition rollers, another factor is that when doing kiss impression from metal type,
      Message 2 of 21 , Apr 26 6:15 PM
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        In addition to Eric's comments about MERTs being used to compensate for composition rollers, another factor is that when doing kiss impression from metal type, I think the rollers were generally expected to be somewhat larger than the trucks, with the roller pressing deeper against the type. With rubber rollers, photopolymer, and deep impression, the rollers and trucks must be much more closely aligned - the trucks have to be bigger than was expected in the past. So the MERTs rubbers have to be cranked down to match the roller size, which increases the out-of-round variations.

        The delrin trucks have worked much better for me than MERTs. The only caution is that one set I got was slightly non-concentric, which was a problem, but others have been fine.

        If your MERTs have been ground down to make them round, they should be fine for at least many months as long as you don't adjust the tightness of the rubbers.

        Matt Kelsey

        On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Eric <Megalonyx@...> wrote:
         



        --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@...> wrote:
        >
        >[. . .] My feeling is that the expandable trucks were designed for shops where precise control over the roller height was not that big a deal. ie, printing on hard surfaced sheets with not much ink and very little impression.
        >
        The expansion trucks are a holdover from when composition rollers were the standard on platen presses; since the rollers changed size with humidity, adjustable trucks were very useful. Now rubber rollers are standard, and they remain a constant size. From what I have seen repeatedly, many people using MERTs over-expand them to compensate for low tracks, and eccentricity results. According to the instruction sheet from Cowan, trucks should be at roller diameter, or just slightly larger. Do that, then build up the tracks to around type-height, or until inking is correct, and not slurred; don't rely on trucks for the whole adjustment.
        A previous owner of Cowan said MERT rubbers should be changed every year. Not likely! Sometimes they are so cracked and hard, I wonder what century they were installed.
        --Eric Holub, SF

      • Steve Robison
        Amanda, Before I start in with a reply, it sound like congratulations are in order if you are printing your own invitations. So   C O N G R A T U L A T I O N
        Message 3 of 21 , Apr 26 8:06 PM
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          Amanda,

          Before I start in with a reply, it sound like congratulations are in order if you are printing your own invitations. So   C O N G R A T U L A T I O N S   to a fellow letterpress printer!

          Now about those inking problems...

          Sounds like you might be changing from MERTS to solids in the near future. But it also sounds like you may need a solution to get you through your wedding announcements right now if you might not be able to wait for new trucks.

           

          I pride myself as being a bit of an expert with MERTS. I've used them on various presses for over 45 years. Sure, I've used solids too, but I've never resorted to solids because of bad performance from MERTS. I just use solids on other presses that don't accommodate MERTS. If properly adjusted, and that's the key, they will perform wonderfully for years.

          That said, maybe these tips might help you resolve your current inking problems.

          Maybe some of the things I mention will bring up a thing or two that you haven't thought of yet and help solve the problem.

           

          But before you even start messing with the roller trucks, try and eliminate some other possible variables that might be affecting your uneven inking that don't involve trucks.

          These include things like:
            a. the type of cleaners and solvents you are using on your rollers
            b. the type of ink you are using that might be reacting to residual solvent on your rollers

            c. the type of rollers you have - composition? rubber, other?

            d. the age of your rollers

            e. how soft they are

            f. how slick they are
            c. whether or not your current rollers are perfectly round
            d. the wear and condition of your roller rails - Are they even or do they have dips in them or are not properly clean and smooth

           

          Inking problems can be tricky to solve because a lot of different causes can be at play. Solving these issues requires a certain mindset. So try to think as logically as you can to ascertain what might be going on. Then methodically eliminate the extraneous variables until you can focus solely on what's left.

           

          A few of the things other than roller trucks that might affect even ink distribution are:

            a. ink can be repelled by areas on your rollers that were improperly cleaned or where certain kinds of solvents have not been entirely removed.

            b. certain solvents can harden your rollers in places over time and lead to uneven spots that can cause uneven inking

            c.  rails can be caked with ink, worn and uneven, causing perfectly round trucks to jump up and down causing uneven inking

           

          Here's how to eliminate some of the variables regarding trucks and rails:

           

          RAIL EVENESS:

            a. check the evenness of the rails in a couple of ways. First, Meticulously clean the rails if you have not already done so already. Caked ink splatters or other rust and debris can cause uneven rails as well.Then put a straight edge along each rail and note any dips. No dips is a good sign. Next check for overall wear by locking up two pieces of type high material on either side of your chase (any known type high material will do...like roller bearers, new line rule, new boarder rule, etc.) Then place a known straight edge horizontally across the rails and the type high material, moving the straight edge slowly downward and looking to see if the rails have any excessive wear. There's not much you can do if it is worn except to tape the rails, but at least you will know where and how much to tape.

           

          ROLLER DIAMETER:
             b. check the diameter of your current rollers by putting your rollers without trucks on a known flat surface like a flat formica counter top or flat composing stone. Take a bright flashlight in one hand and shine it behind the roller as you turn the roller on the flat surface with your other hand. If you can "see light" under the roller at any time, you have a "low spot" on your roller that a truck will not be able to fix. Time to order a new roller.

           

          But if each roller checks out ok, and the rails check out ok,  then continue by addressing the MERTS...

          MERTS:
          Like any type of truck, MERTS have their pros and cons. The pros are that they grip the rails and don't slur or slide like other trucks might. They can also be adjusted to your particular press rails to some extent. They are also quiet --no loud clickety clack like other trucks. The cons are that they eventually need replacing (but not often), and can initially be tricky to adjust properly. But if adjusted well, they should be every bit as good as solid trucks. The problem is, they require a bit of tinkering to get them adjusted correctly, and most people aren't willing, or don't know how to do the adjusting correctly. But once adjusted correctly, they won't need adjusting again for a very, very, very long time. OK. So here are my tips:

          a. If they rubber tires are cracked and old, they need replacing before you go any further (sounds like you did that)

          b. When you replace the trucks with new rubber tires, and start adjusting them, they can become oval instead of round if they bind on adjustment. When you take the metal part of the MERTS apart, meticulously clean the metal workings to get any rust or old ink out of the working parts. Put a tiny bit of 3-in-one oil on the screw threads to make re-tightening and adjusting smooth and even. Putting a little corn starch on the sides of the rubber tires before putting them on may also help let them tighten evenly and keep them round while they are being tightened.

          c. check to see that they are round and matching the diameter of your rollers by following this procedure:

          Once you have them adjusted them to approximately the right diameter, put the trucks on the roller cores and put the rollers with the trucks on them on a flat surface, like a formica counter top or composing stone. Then put a flashlight or other bright focused light source behind them. Roll each roller one complete turn and see if you can "see any light" under them. If not, tighten the MERTS a bit more, a bit at a time, until you can see just a little light. That will mean that your MERTS are a bit too big. But before you back them off, roll the roller one complete turn and see if the light is even all the way across, or, more importantly, if the light changes to dark and then to light again or is just dark and light again only on one side -- indicating that one or both of your MERTS may not perfectly round. Keep adjusting and testing until you get them perfectly adjusted, or determine exactly where the problem is, and then address the specific MERT or MERTS that are causing the problem. Sometimes taking the tires completely out and re-inserting them again can cause them to re-seat perfectly.

           

          To ink properly, rollers should press into the type or plate about a 1/32" to maybe 1/16" at the most. Any more will create problems of "squishing" excess ink into and onto the form, and you will loose the crisp definition that you want. Anything less may cause underinking.   

           

          If there is little or no wear on your rails, then the roller truck diameter should usually be the same as the roller diameter, and this will allow the rollers to press into the form at the proper 1/32" to 1/16 " I mentioned previously. If there is wear on the rails, then the roller trucks will need to be slightly larger to offset that wear for proper roller adjustment.

           

          Since each press is slightly different due to wear, this process of adjusting the rollers is a very individual matter. So take your time. Learn all about your press. And adjust accordingly.

           

          Once the roller trucks are correctly adjusted, and this is a VERY important point, keep them matched to the roller end that they were adjusted to. You can do this in numerous ways. One is to mark the end of each roller core rod with a different color paint and put a dot of the same color paint on the side of the MERT that matches that particular roller end. Another is to put scratch marks on each roller core rod end like roman numerals, and then put the corresponding roman numeral scratch mark on the corresponding MERT.  For example, using scratch marks of  I, II, III, IV, V, VI. A third way is to just leave them on the rollers at all times.

           

          Note that you must always take your rollers off the press when not in use if you use MERTS...because if you leave them on the press the rubber tires of the MERTS will flatten on the rails where they rest, and this, of course will lead to a multitude of inking problems.

           

          Another tip is to always store rollers in either a rack or box or other method such that the MERTS or the rollers will not be touching any surface. If they are touching a surface, the roller or MERT rubbers will conform to that surface and again this will cause a multitude of inking problems.

           

          Finally, store your rollers like fine wine. A cool, dry place away from sunlight is best. I store mine in the basement next to the wine cellar.  The cool even temperature is perfect for them no mater how hot or cold it is outside. They really like it there. And I've had my last set of rubber rollers for over 20+ years and they are just like new. I store my MERTS with the rollers, and they too are like new after 20+ years. I check them for proper diameter from time to time, but haven't needed to adjust them much in 20+ years either.

           

          Hope you can get enough info from this and other list postings to get your invitations done.

           

          Again, best wishes and congratulations on your wedding!

           

          --Steve

          Steve Robison

          The Robison Press

          Belmont , CA (about 25 miles south of San Francisco )
          robisonsteve@...



          --- On Mon, 4/26/10, amanda burton <asteriskpress@...> wrote:

          From: amanda burton <asteriskpress@...>
          Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re-Ground MERTS
          To: ppletterpress@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Monday, April 26, 2010, 12:09 PM



          Hi Everyone,

          After a nightmarish printing experience (horrendously uneven inking) on my 10x15 C&P this weekend, I determined that either my rollers, trucks, or both were out of whack. I have MERTS, and I replaced the tires, hoping that would fix the problem. It helped, but it didn't solve my uneven inking issues completely.  

          This morning my fiancé took my rollers to Advance Roller to see if they could regrind them, because I was sure they weren't round. The guys there said that it wasn't the rollers; they were perfectly round (they tested them), it was my trucks. My tires were completely out of round (though I just put them on yesterday). So they re-ground the tires to make them round.

          This is great, but I now have more questions. Before all this happened, I was thinking of buying Delrin trucks for my rollers, just because I haven't been thrilled with the MERTS. But now that my tires are supposedly perfectly round, should I hold off on ordering the Delrins? Should I order them anyway just to have on hand, since the rubber on the MERTS will surely degrade/dry out in time? 

          The reason for the urgency is that I'm in the process of printing my wedding invitations. They need to be completed this weekend, so I figure if I order the Derlins now I should get them in time to change them out if for some reason the newly reground MERTS aren't doing the trick. Since we're already spending tons of money on wedding stuff and I've spent quite a bit recently on letterpress supplies (new base, paper cutter, etc), I'd love to avoid spending another almost $100 on the Delrins right now, but it's worth the $100 if it will save what little of my sanity is left, I suppose...

          Has anyone else had their tires reground/smoothed out? Does anyone have any idea how long I should expect these to last? 


          Thanks,

          Amanda.

           
          *****

          Amanda Burton
          Asterisk Press
          asteriskpress.etsy.com





        • Tom O'Meara
          Steve, from one old fart to another, thanks for taking the time to post that info. :) It s a keeper. Tom Posted by: Steve Robison robisonsteve@yahoo.com
          Message 4 of 21 , Apr 27 8:23 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            Steve, from one old fart to another, thanks for taking the time to post that info. :)  It's a keeper.

            Tom


            Posted by: "Steve Robison" robisonsteve@...   robisonsteve

            Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:18 pm (PDT)





            Amanda,

            Before I start in with a reply, it sound like congratulations are in order if
            you are printing your own invitations. So   C O N G R A T U L A T I O N S   to a
            fellow letterpress printer!

            Now about those inking problems...

            Sounds like you might be changing from MERTS to solids in the near future. But
            it also sounds like you may need a solution to get you through your wedding
            announcements right now if you might not be able to wait for new trucks.

             

            I pride myself as being a bit of an expert with MERTS. I've
            used them on various presses for over 45 years. Sure, I've used solids too, but
            I've never resorted to solids because of bad performance from MERTS. I just use
            solids on other presses that don't accommodate MERTS. If properly adjusted, and that's the key, they will perform wonderfully for years.

            That said, maybe these tips might help you resolve your current inking problems.

            Maybe some of the things I mention will bring up a thing or two that you
            haven't thought of yet and help solve the problem.

             

            But before you even start messing with the roller trucks,
            try and eliminate some other possible variables that might be affecting your
            uneven inking that don't involve trucks.

            These include things like:

              a. the type of cleaners and solvents you are using on your rollers

              b. the type of ink you are using that might be reacting to residual solvent
            on your rollers

              c. the type of rollers you have - composition?
            rubber, other?

              d. the age of your rollers

              e. how soft they are

              f. how slick they are

              c. whether or not your current rollers are perfectly round

              d. the wear and condition of your roller rails - Are they even or do
            they have dips in them or are not properly clean and smooth

             

            Inking problems can be tricky to solve because a lot of
            different causes can be at play. Solving these issues requires a certain
            mindset. So try to think as logically as you can to ascertain what might be
            going on. Then methodically eliminate the extraneous variables until you can
            focus solely on what's left.

             

            A few of the things other than roller trucks that might
            affect even ink distribution are:

              a. ink can be repelled by areas on your rollers that
            were improperly cleaned or where certain kinds of solvents have not been
            entirely removed.

              b. certain solvents can harden your rollers in places
            over time and lead to uneven spots that can cause uneven inking

              c.  rails can be caked with ink, worn and
            uneven, causing perfectly round trucks to jump up and down causing uneven
            inking

             

            Here's how to eliminate some of the variables regarding
            trucks and rails:

             

            RAIL EVENESS:

              a. check the evenness of the rails in a couple of
            ways. First, Meticulously clean the rails if you have not already done so
            already. Caked ink splatters or other rust and debris can cause uneven rails as
            well.Then put a straight edge along each rail and note any dips. No dips is a
            good sign. Next check for overall wear by locking up two pieces of type high
            material on either side of your chase (any known type high material will
            do...like roller bearers, new line rule, new boarder rule, etc.) Then place a
            known straight edge horizontally across the rails and the type high material,
            moving the straight edge slowly downward and looking to see if the rails have
            any excessive wear. There's not much you can do if it is worn except to
            tape the rails, but at least you will know where and how much to tape.

             

            ROLLER DIAMETER:

               b. check the diameter of your current rollers by putting your
            rollers without trucks on a known flat surface like a flat formica counter top
            or flat composing stone. Take a bright flashlight in one hand and shine it
            behind the roller as you turn the roller on the flat surface with your other
            hand. If you can "see light" under the roller at any time, you have a
            "low spot" on your roller that a truck will not be able to fix. Time
            to order a new roller.

             

            But if each roller checks out ok, and the rails check out
            ok,  then continue by addressing the MERTS...

            MERTS:

            Like any type of truck, MERTS have their pros and cons. The pros are that they
            grip the rails and don't slur or slide like other trucks might. They can also
            be adjusted to your particular press rails to some extent. They are also quiet
            --no loud clickety clack like other trucks. The cons are that they eventually
            need replacing (but not often), and can initially be tricky to adjust properly.
            But if adjusted well, they should be every bit as good as solid trucks. The
            problem is, they require a bit of tinkering to get them adjusted correctly, and
            most people aren't willing, or don't know how to do the adjusting correctly. But
            once adjusted correctly, they won't need adjusting again for a very, very, very
            long time. OK. So here are my tips:

            a. If they rubber tires are cracked and old, they need replacing before you go
            any further (sounds like you did that)

            b. When you replace the trucks with new rubber tires, and start adjusting them,
            they can become oval instead of round if they bind on adjustment. When you take
            the metal part of the MERTS apart, meticulously clean the metal workings to get
            any rust or old ink out of the working parts. Put a tiny bit of 3-in-one oil on
            the screw threads to make re-tightening and adjusting smooth and even. Putting
            a little corn starch on the sides of the rubber tires before putting them on
            may also help let them tighten evenly and keep them round while they are being
            tightened.

            c. check to see that they are round and matching the diameter of your rollers
            by following this procedure:

            Once you have them adjusted them to approximately the right diameter, put the
            trucks on the roller cores and put the rollers with the trucks on them on a
            flat surface, like a formica counter top or composing stone. Then put a
            flashlight or other bright focused light source behind them. Roll each roller
            one complete turn and see if you can "see any light" under them. If
            not, tighten the MERTS a bit more, a bit at a time, until you can see just a
            little light. That will mean that your MERTS are a bit too big. But before you
            back them off, roll the roller one complete turn and see if the light is even
            all the way across, or, more importantly, if the light changes to dark and then
            to light again or is just dark and light again only on one side -- indicating
            that one or both of your MERTS may not perfectly round. Keep adjusting and
            testing until you get them perfectly adjusted, or determine exactly where the
            problem is, and then address the specific MERT or MERTS that are causing the
            problem. Sometimes taking the tires completely out and re-inserting them again
            can cause them to re-seat perfectly.

             

            To ink properly, rollers should press into the type or plate
            about a 1/32" to maybe 1/16" at the most. Any more will create
            problems of "squishing" excess ink into and onto the form, and you
            will loose the crisp definition that you want. Anything less may cause
            underinking.   

             

            If there is little or no wear on your rails, then the roller
            truck diameter should usually be the same as the roller diameter, and this will
            allow the rollers to press into the form at the proper 1/32" to 1/16
            " I mentioned previously. If there is wear on the rails, then the roller
            trucks will need to be slightly larger to offset that wear for proper roller
            adjustment.

             

            Since each press is slightly different due to wear, this
            process of adjusting the rollers is a very individual matter. So take your
            time. Learn all about your press. And adjust accordingly.

             

            Once the roller trucks are correctly adjusted, and this is a
            VERY important point, keep them matched to the roller end that they were
            adjusted to. You can do this in numerous ways. One is to mark the end of each
            roller core rod with a different color paint and put a dot of the same color
            paint on the side of the MERT that matches that particular roller end. Another
            is to put scratch marks on each roller core rod end like roman numerals, and
            then put the corresponding roman numeral scratch mark on the corresponding
            MERT.  For example, using scratch marks
            of  I, II, III, IV, V, VI. A third way is
            to just leave them on the rollers at all times.

             

            Note that you must always take your rollers off the press
            when not in use if you use MERTS...because if you leave them on the press the
            rubber tires of the MERTS will flatten on the rails where they rest, and this,
            of course will lead to a multitude of inking problems.

             

            Another tip is to always store rollers in either a rack or
            box or other method such that the MERTS or the rollers will not be touching any
            surface. If they are touching a surface, the roller or MERT rubbers will
            conform to that surface and again this will cause a multitude of inking
            problems.

             

            Finally, store your rollers like fine wine. A cool, dry
            place away from sunlight is best. I store mine in the basement next to the wine
            cellar.  The cool even temperature is
            perfect for them no mater how hot or cold it is outside. They really like it
            there. And I've had my last set of rubber rollers for over 20+ years and they
            are just like new. I store my MERTS with the rollers, and they too are like new
            after 20+ years. I check them for proper diameter from time to time, but
            haven't needed to adjust them much in 20+ years either.

             

            Hope you can get enough info from this and other list postings
            to get your invitations done.

             

            Again, best wishes and congratulations on your wedding!

             

            --Steve

            Steve Robison

            The Robison Press

            Belmont, CA
          • Eric
            I agree with many of Steve s points, but not the idea that rollers need to press in 1/16 to 1/32 for ink transfer, or that MERTS should be adjusted
            Message 5 of 21 , Apr 27 10:27 AM
            • 0 Attachment
              I agree with many of Steve's points, but not the idea that rollers need to press in 1/16 to 1/32 for ink transfer, or that MERTS should be adjusted specifically to acheive that where tracks are low. It is advice widely believed and often given, especially on BriarPress, but I have not find many previous authorities in agreement. In fact I don't recall anyone before Fred Williams wrote about roller setting in Type & Press saying trucks 1/16" smaller than roller was ideal. It is true that a roller must be set low enough to ink the lowest areas of the form, and metal type has variations from wear to type, mats and casters. But photopolymer plates are a different matter not contemplated in earlier writings. They have level surfaces and benefit from lighter setting and often lighter coverage than metal.
              I would suggest trucks and rollers at even diameter and tracks adjusted for appropriate contact between rollers and form, since every track I have measured has been worn down.

              And, for your consideration, here are extracts from the 1920 edition of Frank S. Henry's "Printing for Shop and School" on the subject of roller setting. Of course, at that time metal forms and composition rollers were the standard.

              "Bearers.– In many offices it is customary to use bearers in job-press forms, the popular belief being that they prevent the rollers from bearing too hard on the form. A brief inspection of rollers that have been run on bearers will prove that the bearers do not bear off the rollers, but that they actually sink into them. Bearers are only useful in certain conditions.
              Gudgeons [trucks].–In all types of job printing-presses the rollers are moved up and down across the face of the type. On each end of the roller-stock is a wheel, known as a gudgeon, that rolls on a track at the side of the press. This track should project 0.918 inch (type-high) from the bed of the press. The gudgeon should be exactly of the same diameter as the roller. The roller stock should be keyed to the gudgeon.
              When these perfect conditions prevail, if the rollers are not bearing firmly enough on the form, all that is necessary is to put a few sheets of paper back of the form; if the rollers are bearing too firmly on the form, glue a strip of cardboard on the track. In the Victoria Press the rollers are raised or lowered by moving the whole track with an adjusting screw.
              If the rollers and gudgeons are not exactly the same diameter, the one of greater diameter will roll farther than the other. For example, suppose that the circumference of the roller is six inches abd that of the gudgeons only five and one-half inches, what becomes of the other half inch? The gudgeons in rolling are rotating the rollers, both making one revolution in the same period of time; the circumference of the roller, however, moving six inches while the gudgeons only move five and one-half inches. That half inch is gained in the five and one-half inches, the roller sliding over the form instead of rolling. The same thing will happen if the rollers are smaller than the gudgeons. In this event, it will slip in the opposite direction. The contact of the roller on the form should be a rolling contact, not a sliding one.
              If the roller is sliding instead of rolling, it will fill up the type, and produce smeary prints. It will also wear out the roller pins, which finally break, leaving the roller free to revolve in the gudgeons.
              It is only when rollers are loose in the gudgeons that it is advisable to use roller-bearers, as they will cause the rollers to roll over the form and not drag; but they will not bear off the rollers form the form.
              There are adaptable and adjustable gudgeons on the market, so devised that the pressman may always have them of proper diameter for his rollers."
            • Peter Fraterdeus
              Great citation, Eric, thanks for this. PF ... etc ... Peter Fraterdeus Exquisite letterpress takes time™ http://slowprint.com/ IdeasWords : Idea Swords
              Message 6 of 21 , Apr 27 12:21 PM
              • 0 Attachment
                Great citation, Eric, thanks for this.

                PF

                On 27 Apr 2010, at 12:27 PM, Eric wrote:

                > .... But photopolymer plates are a different matter not contemplated in earlier writings. They have level surfaces and benefit from lighter setting and often lighter coverage than metal.
                > I would suggest trucks and rollers at even diameter and tracks adjusted for appropriate contact between rollers and form, since every track I have measured has been worn down.
                >
                > And, for your consideration, here are extracts from the 1920 edition of Frank S. Henry's "Printing for Shop and School" on the subject of roller setting. Of course, at that time metal forms and composition rollers were the standard.
                >
                etc
                > ...
                > When these perfect conditions prevail, if the rollers are not bearing firmly enough on the form, all that is necessary is to put a few sheets of paper back of the form; if the rollers are bearing too firmly on the form, glue a strip of cardboard on the track. In the Victoria Press the rollers are raised or lowered by moving the whole track with an adjusting screw. ... The contact of the roller on the form should be a rolling contact, not a sliding one.
                > If the roller is sliding instead of rolling, it will fill up the type, and produce smeary prints. It will also wear out the roller pins, which finally break, leaving the roller free to revolve in the gudgeons.
                > It is only when rollers are loose in the gudgeons that it is advisable to use roller-bearers, as they will cause the rollers to roll over the form and not drag; but they will not bear off the rollers from the form. ...

                Peter Fraterdeus
                Exquisite letterpress takes time™
                http://slowprint.com/

                IdeasWords : Idea Swords
                Communication Strategy
                Semiotx.com @ideaswords
              • amanda burton
                Thanks again to everyone for all the info. This list is such a great resource! It s really wonderful to have all this knowledge available. Amanda. ... *****
                Message 7 of 21 , Apr 27 3:23 PM
                • 0 Attachment
                  Thanks again to everyone for all the info. This list is such a great resource! It's really wonderful to have all this knowledge available. 


                  Amanda.



                  On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@...> wrote:
                  Great citation, Eric, thanks for this.

                  PF

                  On 27 Apr 2010, at 12:27 PM, Eric wrote:

                  > .... But photopolymer plates are a different matter not contemplated in earlier writings. They have level surfaces and benefit from lighter setting and often lighter coverage than metal.
                  >   I would suggest trucks and rollers at even diameter and tracks adjusted for appropriate contact between rollers and form, since every track I have measured has been worn down.
                  >
                  > And, for your consideration, here are extracts from the 1920 edition of Frank S. Henry's "Printing for Shop and School" on the subject of roller setting. Of course, at that time metal forms and composition rollers were the standard.
                  >
                  etc
                  > ...
                  >    When these perfect conditions prevail, if the rollers are not bearing firmly enough on the form, all that is necessary is to put a few sheets of paper back of the form; if the rollers are bearing too firmly on the form, glue a strip of cardboard on the track. In the Victoria Press the rollers are raised or lowered by moving the whole track with an adjusting screw. ... The contact of the roller on the form should be a rolling contact, not a sliding one.
                  >   If the roller is sliding instead of rolling, it will fill up the type, and produce smeary prints. It will also wear out the roller pins, which finally break, leaving the roller free to revolve in the gudgeons.
                  >   It is only when rollers are loose in the gudgeons that it is advisable to use roller-bearers, as they will cause the rollers to roll over the form and not drag; but they will not bear off the rollers from the form. ...

                  Peter Fraterdeus
                  Exquisite letterpress takes time™
                  http://slowprint.com/

                  IdeasWords : Idea Swords
                  Communication Strategy
                  Semiotx.com  @ideaswords



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                  Asterisk Press
                  asteriskpress.etsy.com


                • Steve Robison
                  To All... Before I begin my comments, I just want to say that Eric Holub and I are friends, and that his input and experienced comments are valued and
                  Message 8 of 21 , Apr 28 1:47 AM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    To All...

                    Before I begin my comments, I just want to say that Eric Holub and I are friends, and that his input and experienced comments are valued and respected...at least by me. (Hi Eric!). So lest you think I am taking issue with him in my reply, think not. I just realized that from his comments I must not have articulated my points clearly enough, and somehow led him astray (along with possibly other readers) and I want to attempt to now give a clearer explanation of what I meant to say to make sure my comments are not misinterpreted any further.

                    Eric's, comment regarding my post, said:

                    "I agree with many of Steve's points, but not the idea that rollers need to press in 1/16 to 1/32 for ink transfer, or that MERTS should be adjusted specifically to acheive that where tracks are low. It is advice widely believed and often given, especially on Briar Press, but I have not find many previous authorities in agreement. In fact I don't recall anyone before Fred Williams wrote about roller setting in Type & Press saying trucks 1/16" smaller than roller was ideal...."

                    Yikes. That's not at all what I meant to say, or thought I said at all, so I probably didn't say it well enough!

                    So let me try again...

                    What I was trying to say was that on a C&P 10x15 with standard 1-3/4" diameter rollers, making the trucks the same diameter as the rollers (which is the way they should be), allows for the face of the roller to just touch the type, plate or whatever you are trying to ink. I totally agree with the Frank S. Henry quote that Eric shared with us earlier.... that ideally, the trucks (Gudgeons) should be the same diameter as the rollers. I also agree that to make one truck larger than the other will create problems too.

                    So just to be doubly clear, I didn't say or want it implied that I said that you should make the roller trucks a different diameter than the rollers. That's a whole different assertion that apparently some mistakenly thought I was making. I was just saying that the rollers should be "just touching" the type or plate, and that this usually around 1/32" to 1/16".

                    Your individual experience, of course, may vary....

                    As we all know, not all presses are the same. Not even the same make and model. Some are worn more than others. Some have warped or flattened rollers. Yet others may have poorly adjusted platens and other problems.

                    So having the rollers just touch your type or plate, somewhere in the 1/32" to 1/16" range, is just a normal ballpark range that I threw out there that will be workable in most settings. From there, minor adjustments, if you can make them, may be necessary depending on general press and rail wear and depending on the job...and that's where you can build up the rails, put underlay backing behind the form, or resort to other tricks of the trade.

                    If you are lucky, and the roller rails are not worn too much, chances are the rollers will only press the type or plate just a little -- at about 1/32" or maybe even less, and that's ideal. Because if everything else is perfect with the press (little or no rail wear, perfectly round rollers, etc) then having the least amount of touch to the type or plate , as long as the rollers can ink the image surface completely and evenly, will usually yield the best results -- a crisper, sharper, image. That's particularly true if the type or plate has a lot of fine detail.

                    But since we're tip-toeing around the topic of possibly adjusting MERTS to make up for worn rails, let's open up that can of worms a little further. I would say that there is perhaps only one particular instance when adjusting MERTS to make up for worn rails on a C&P makes sense. That one trick-of-the-trade is valid only with some very specific and limited parameters. Here they are: If you have uniformally worn rails on each side of the bed (i.e. no dips in them at all, but just straight rails on each side of the press bed that are just evenly worn down a microscopic amount where they are worn the same amount on the left had side as the right hand side) then it makes good sense to make microscopic adjustments to your MERTS to make up those microscopic shortcomings in your worn rails. And you can make up those differences usually much more easily and successfully than you can with tape. It is a very limited application that can only be done successfully
                    if the wear on each rail is evenly the same, and only if the MERTS are adjusted equally on both left and right sides of your rollers to be exactly the same diameter (to avoid issues of having one side of your roller turning at a different speed as the other causing slurs and excess wear, etc.)

                    But, let me re-emphasize that this is one limited application that can be done successfully only when you have these very specific limited conditions. The rest of the time, you should do as previously recommended...adjust your MERTS to be exactly the same diameter as the diameter of your rollers, and make your "worn rail" adjustments in some other ways by taping rails or adding or removing underalay packing behind the form to bring the type or plate up to or away from the rollers as needed for proper inking.

                    I also wanted to comment on the assertion that printing a photopolymer image is different from the days of the past, and is more uniform than printing a bunch of inconsistently worn type, and that that may have been a reason for wider 1/32" to 1/16" roller to image tolerance in earlier times. The inference is that somehow closer tolerances than the 1/32" to 1/16" can and should be had when working with photopolymer plates. I would agree. But I would also agree that closer tolerances can and should also be had when printing with brand new type or with copper, zinc or magnesium plates as well. Prior to printing with photopolymer we were printing with copper, zinc and magnesium plates that were just as uniform as any photopolymer plates out there, and maybe even more so. And if they were mounted on steel or brass bases, they were just as uniform as modern photopolymer mounted on steel, brass or aluminum bases of today. Sure, photopolymer might take ink a
                    bit differently, and different inks may yield slightly different results, but the matter of thinking that photopolymer plates have a uniquely uniform surface that somehow requires a more exacting set of roller parameters than inking that took place in the past just doesn't ring completely true. Excellent printing with fine tolerances will make for excellent results no matter what image substrate being used. But there is one thing we can all agree on and that is that at some point the ink roller must touch the type or plate in order for the ink to transfer, regardless of the type or plate used. We can debate how much "touch" there should be in any given application, and if 1/32" is too much or not, but at some point there's no getting around the fact that the rollers need to touch the type or plate to be able to print, right? :-) The proper amount of that touch is entirely up to the printer, given the mechanical adjustment limitations of the individual
                    press involved, the quality and uniformity of the type or plate, and also on a number of other factors, including things like the detail and depth of the engraving, the type of paper being used, the type of ink being used, the humidity on the day of printing, etc., etc., etc.

                    So to all of you who are still reading this tome, best wishes and happy inking!

                    --Steve

                    Steve Robison
                    The Robison Press
                    Belmont, CA (about 25 miles south of San Francisco)
                    robisonsteve@...




                    --- On Tue, 4/27/10, Eric <Megalonyx@...> wrote:

                    > From: Eric <Megalonyx@...>
                    > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Re-Ground MERTS
                    > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                    > Date: Tuesday, April 27, 2010, 10:27 AM
                    > I agree with many of Steve's points,
                    > but not the idea that rollers need to press in 1/16 to 1/32
                    > for ink transfer, or that MERTS should be adjusted
                    > specifically to acheive that where tracks are low. It is
                    > advice widely believed and often given, especially on
                    > BriarPress, but I have not find many previous authorities in
                    > agreement. In fact I don't recall anyone before Fred
                    > Williams wrote about roller setting in Type & Press
                    > saying trucks 1/16" smaller than roller was ideal. It is
                    > true that a roller must be set low enough to ink the lowest
                    > areas of the form, and metal type has variations from wear
                    > to type, mats and casters. But photopolymer plates are a
                    > different matter not contemplated in earlier writings. They
                    > have level surfaces and benefit from lighter setting and
                    > often lighter coverage than metal.
                    >    I would suggest trucks and rollers at
                    > even diameter and tracks adjusted for appropriate contact
                    > between rollers and form, since every track I have measured
                    > has been worn down.
                    >
                    > And, for your consideration, here are extracts from the
                    > 1920 edition of Frank S. Henry's "Printing for Shop and
                    > School" on the subject of roller setting. Of course, at that
                    > time metal forms and composition rollers were the standard.
                    >
                    > "Bearers.– In many offices it is customary to use bearers
                    > in job-press forms, the popular belief being that they
                    > prevent the rollers from bearing too hard on the form. A
                    > brief inspection of rollers that have been run on bearers
                    > will prove that the bearers do not bear off the rollers, but
                    > that they actually sink into them. Bearers are only useful
                    > in certain conditions.
                    > Gudgeons [trucks].–In all types of job printing-presses
                    > the rollers are moved up and down across the face of the
                    > type. On each end of the roller-stock is a wheel, known as a
                    > gudgeon, that rolls on a track at the side of the press.
                    > This track should project 0.918 inch (type-high) from the
                    > bed of the press. The gudgeon should be exactly of the same
                    > diameter as the roller. The roller stock should be keyed to
                    > the gudgeon.
                    >     When these perfect conditions prevail, if the
                    > rollers are not bearing firmly enough on the form, all that
                    > is necessary is to put a few sheets of paper back of the
                    > form; if the rollers are bearing too firmly on the form,
                    > glue a strip of cardboard on the track. In the Victoria
                    > Press the rollers are raised or lowered by moving the whole
                    > track with an adjusting screw.
                    >     If the rollers and gudgeons are not exactly
                    > the same diameter, the one of greater diameter will roll
                    > farther than the other. For example, suppose that the
                    > circumference of the roller is six inches abd that of the
                    > gudgeons only five and one-half inches, what becomes of the
                    > other half inch? The gudgeons in rolling are rotating the
                    > rollers, both making one revolution in the same period of
                    > time; the circumference of the roller, however, moving six
                    > inches while the gudgeons only move five and one-half
                    > inches. That half inch is gained in the five and one-half
                    > inches, the roller sliding over the form instead of rolling.
                    > The same thing will happen if the rollers are smaller than
                    > the gudgeons. In this event, it will slip in the opposite
                    > direction. The contact of the roller on the form should be a
                    > rolling contact, not a sliding one.
                    >    If the roller is sliding instead of
                    > rolling, it will fill up the type, and produce smeary
                    > prints. It will also wear out the roller pins, which finally
                    > break, leaving the roller free to revolve in the gudgeons.
                    >    It is only when rollers are loose in the
                    > gudgeons that it is advisable to use roller-bearers, as they
                    > will cause the rollers to roll over the form and not drag;
                    > but they will not bear off the rollers form the form.
                    >    There are adaptable and adjustable
                    > gudgeons on the market, so devised that the pressman may
                    > always have them of proper diameter for his rollers."
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >     PPLetterpress-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Fritz Klinke
                    Ouch--this discussion has become painful to the point of forever discouraging anyone who is just beginning. My recommendation concerning C&Ps is to have
                    Message 9 of 21 , Apr 28 10:25 AM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      
                      Ouch--this discussion has become painful to the point of forever discouraging anyone who is just beginning. My recommendation concerning C&Ps is to have uniform truck diameters that correlate to the roller diameter, and this is where we sell boat loads of the Delrin trucks, then adjust roller height using appropriate hard tape on the rails to just barely ink the surface of a larger plate, especially photopolymer, and stop at that point with the tape. Any further adjustment is made using different thicknesses of packing paper between the bed of the press and the base that the plate is attached to. This way the plate can be raised to touch the rollers where needed without constantly messing with tape or attempting to work with MERTS. The bed rails on C&Ps do not typically wear the same on each side. On the other presses like  Heidelbergs and those platens with adjustable bed rails, the problem is readily solved. I don't subscribe to the theory that rollers and trucks have to be the exact same diameter--even rubber rollers shrink to some extent, especially the first year when new so we specify rollers be oversize by about .030. A 1/32" is .031 and that's fine for the roller to be that much larger in diameter than the truck in my opinion.
                       
                      Fritz
                       
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 2:47 AM
                      Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Re-Ground MERTS

                       

                      To All...

                      Before I begin my comments, I just want to say that Eric Holub and I are friends, and that his input and experienced comments are valued and respected... at least by me. (Hi Eric!). So lest you think I am taking issue with him in my reply, think not. I just realized that from his comments I must not have articulated my points clearly enough, and somehow led him astray (along with possibly other readers) and I want to attempt to now give a clearer explanation of what I meant to say to make sure my comments are not misinterpreted any further.

                      Eric's, comment regarding my post, said:

                      "I agree with many of Steve's points, but not the idea that rollers need to press in 1/16 to 1/32 for ink transfer, or that MERTS should be adjusted specifically to acheive that where tracks are low. It is advice widely believed and often given, especially on Briar Press, but I have not find many previous authorities in agreement. In fact I don't recall anyone before Fred Williams wrote about roller setting in Type & Press saying trucks 1/16" smaller than roller was ideal...."

                      Yikes. That's not at all what I meant to say, or thought I said at all, so I probably didn't say it well enough!

                      So let me try again...

                      What I was trying to say was that on a C&P 10x15 with standard 1-3/4" diameter rollers, making the trucks the same diameter as the rollers (which is the way they should be), allows for the face of the roller to just touch the type, plate or whatever you are trying to ink. I totally agree with the Frank S. Henry quote that Eric shared with us earlier.... that ideally, the trucks (Gudgeons) should be the same diameter as the rollers. I also agree that to make one truck larger than the other will create problems too.

                      So just to be doubly clear, I didn't say or want it implied that I said that you should make the roller trucks a different diameter than the rollers. That's a whole different assertion that apparently some mistakenly thought I was making. I was just saying that the rollers should be "just touching" the type or plate, and that this usually around 1/32" to 1/16".

                      Your individual experience, of course, may vary....

                      As we all know, not all presses are the same. Not even the same make and model. Some are worn more than others. Some have warped or flattened rollers. Yet others may have poorly adjusted platens and other problems.

                      So having the rollers just touch your type or plate, somewhere in the 1/32" to 1/16" range, is just a normal ballpark range that I threw out there that will be workable in most settings. From there, minor adjustments, if you can make them, may be necessary depending on general press and rail wear and depending on the job...and that's where you can build up the rails, put underlay backing behind the form, or resort to other tricks of the trade.

                      If you are lucky, and the roller rails are not worn too much, chances are the rollers will only press the type or plate just a little -- at about 1/32" or maybe even less, and that's ideal. Because if everything else is perfect with the press (little or no rail wear, perfectly round rollers, etc) then having the least amount of touch to the type or plate , as long as the rollers can ink the image surface completely and evenly, will usually yield the best results -- a crisper, sharper, image. That's particularly true if the type or plate has a lot of fine detail.

                      But since we're tip-toeing around the topic of possibly adjusting MERTS to make up for worn rails, let's open up that can of worms a little further. I would say that there is perhaps only one particular instance when adjusting MERTS to make up for worn rails on a C&P makes sense. That one trick-of-the- trade is valid only with some very specific and limited parameters. Here they are: If you have uniformally worn rails on each side of the bed (i.e. no dips in them at all, but just straight rails on each side of the press bed that are just evenly worn down a microscopic amount where they are worn the same amount on the left had side as the right hand side) then it makes good sense to make microscopic adjustments to your MERTS to make up those microscopic shortcomings in your worn rails. And you can make up those differences usually much more easily and successfully than you can with tape. It is a very limited application that can only be done successfully
                      if the wear on each rail is evenly the same, and only if the MERTS are adjusted equally on both left and right sides of your rollers to be exactly the same diameter (to avoid issues of having one side of your roller turning at a different speed as the other causing slurs and excess wear, etc.)

                      But, let me re-emphasize that this is one limited application that can be done successfully only when you have these very specific limited conditions. The rest of the time, you should do as previously recommended. ..adjust your MERTS to be exactly the same diameter as the diameter of your rollers, and make your "worn rail" adjustments in some other ways by taping rails or adding or removing underalay packing behind the form to bring the type or plate up to or away from the rollers as needed for proper inking.

                      I also wanted to comment on the assertion that printing a photopolymer image is different from the days of the past, and is more uniform than printing a bunch of inconsistently worn type, and that that may have been a reason for wider 1/32" to 1/16" roller to image tolerance in earlier times. The inference is that somehow closer tolerances than the 1/32" to 1/16" can and should be had when working with photopolymer plates. I would agree. But I would also agree that closer tolerances can and should also be had when printing with brand new type or with copper, zinc or magnesium plates as well. Prior to printing with photopolymer we were printing with copper, zinc and magnesium plates that were just as uniform as any photopolymer plates out there, and maybe even more so. And if they were mounted on steel or brass bases, they were just as uniform as modern photopolymer mounted on steel, brass or aluminum bases of today. Sure, photopolymer might take ink a
                      bit differently, and different inks may yield slightly different results, but the matter of thinking that photopolymer plates have a uniquely uniform surface that somehow requires a more exacting set of roller parameters than inking that took place in the past just doesn't ring completely true. Excellent printing with fine tolerances will make for excellent results no matter what image substrate being used. But there is one thing we can all agree on and that is that at some point the ink roller must touch the type or plate in order for the ink to transfer, regardless of the type or plate used. We can debate how much "touch" there should be in any given application, and if 1/32" is too much or not, but at some point there's no getting around the fact that the rollers need to touch the type or plate to be able to print, right? :-) The proper amount of that touch is entirely up to the printer, given the mechanical adjustment limitations of the individual
                      press involved, the quality and uniformity of the type or plate, and also on a number of other factors, including things like the detail and depth of the engraving, the type of paper being used, the type of ink being used, the humidity on the day of printing, etc., etc., etc.

                      So to all of you who are still reading this tome, best wishes and happy inking!

                      --Steve

                      Steve Robison
                      The Robison Press
                      Belmont, CA (about 25 miles south of San Francisco)
                      robisonsteve@ yahoo.com

                      --- On Tue, 4/27/10, Eric <Megalonyx@aol. com> wrote:

                      > From: Eric <Megalonyx@aol. com>
                      > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Re-Ground MERTS
                      > To: PPLetterpress@ yahoogroups. com
                      > Date: Tuesday, April 27, 2010, 10:27 AM
                      > I agree with many of Steve's points,
                      > but not the idea that rollers need to press in 1/16 to 1/32
                      > for ink transfer, or that MERTS should be adjusted
                      > specifically to acheive that where tracks are low. It is
                      > advice widely believed and often given, especially on
                      > BriarPress, but I have not find many previous authorities in
                      > agreement. In fact I don't recall anyone before Fred
                      > Williams wrote about roller setting in Type & Press
                      > saying trucks 1/16" smaller than roller was ideal. It is
                      > true that a roller must be set low enough to ink the lowest
                      > areas of the form, and metal type has variations from wear
                      > to type, mats and casters. But photopolymer plates are a
                      > different matter not contemplated in earlier writings. They
                      > have level surfaces and benefit from lighter setting and
                      > often lighter coverage than metal.
                      >    I would suggest trucks and rollers at
                      > even diameter and tracks adjusted for appropriate contact
                      > between rollers and form, since every track I have measured
                      > has been worn down.
                      >
                      > And, for your consideration, here are extracts from the
                      > 1920 edition of Frank S. Henry's "Printing for Shop and
                      > School" on the subject of roller setting. Of course, at that
                      > time metal forms and composition rollers were the standard.
                      >
                      > "Bearers.– In many offices it is customary to use bearers
                      > in job-press forms, the popular belief being that they
                      > prevent the rollers from bearing too hard on the form. A
                      > brief inspection of rollers that have been run on bearers
                      > will prove that the bearers do not bear off the rollers, but
                      > that they actually sink into them. Bearers are only useful
                      > in certain conditions.
                      > Gudgeons [trucks].–In all types of job printing-presses
                      > the rollers are moved up and down across the face of the
                      > type. On each end of the roller-stock is a wheel, known as a
                      > gudgeon, that rolls on a track at the side of the press.
                      > This track should project 0.918 inch (type-high) from the
                      > bed of the press. The gudgeon should be exactly of the same
                      > diameter as the roller. The roller stock should be keyed to
                      > the gudgeon.
                      >     When these perfect conditions prevail, if the
                      > rollers are not bearing firmly enough on the form, all that
                      > is necessary is to put a few sheets of paper back of the
                      > form; if the rollers are bearing too firmly on the form,
                      > glue a strip of cardboard on the track. In the Victoria
                      > Press the rollers are raised or lowered by moving the whole
                      > track with an adjusting screw.
                      >     If the rollers and gudgeons are not exactly
                      > the same diameter, the one of greater diameter will roll
                      > farther than the other. For example, suppose that the
                      > circumference of the roller is six inches abd that of the
                      > gudgeons only five and one-half inches, what becomes of the
                      > other half inch? The gudgeons in rolling are rotating the
                      > rollers, both making one revolution in the same period of
                      > time; the circumference of the roller, however, moving six
                      > inches while the gudgeons only move five and one-half
                      > inches. That half inch is gained in the five and one-half
                      > inches, the roller sliding over the form instead of rolling.
                      > The same thing will happen if the rollers are smaller than
                      > the gudgeons. In this event, it will slip in the opposite
                      > direction. The contact of the roller on the form should be a
                      > rolling contact, not a sliding one.
                      >    If the roller is sliding instead of
                      > rolling, it will fill up the type, and produce smeary
                      > prints. It will also wear out the roller pins, which finally
                      > break, leaving the roller free to revolve in the gudgeons.
                      >    It is only when rollers are loose in the
                      > gudgeons that it is advisable to use roller-bearers, as they
                      > will cause the rollers to roll over the form and not drag;
                      > but they will not bear off the rollers form the form.
                      >    There are adaptable and adjustable
                      > gudgeons on the market, so devised that the pressman may
                      > always have them of proper diameter for his rollers."
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >     PPLetterpress- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com
                      >
                      >
                      >

                    • Peter Fraterdeus
                      Speaking of rollers, did I read somewhere recently that the Miehle V36 uses a different diameter roller than the V50? I got some (donated) V50 rollers (exactly
                      Message 10 of 21 , Apr 28 10:39 AM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Speaking of rollers, did I read somewhere recently that the Miehle V36 uses a different diameter roller than the V50?

                        I got some (donated) V50 rollers (exactly 2" diameter) on the press, and can't seem to make the adjustment both high enough to keep from hitting my base, (not to mention mushing all over the fine lines in the plate) and also close enough to the vibrator to get positive action. I've also noticed a bit of spring in the form, which of course could affect this, but after dealing with that, still can't get both a light touch AND positive traction from the vibrator.

                        Thanks for input!

                        PF
                        -------------------


                        Peter Fraterdeus
                        Exquisite letterpress takes time™
                        http://slowprint.com/

                        IdeasWords : Idea Swords
                        Communication Strategy
                        Semiotx.com @ideaswords
                      • Fritz Klinke
                        I believe that the V-36 uses 1.750 rollers--thus your setting problem. That quarter of an inch makes a big difference. Rollers are set to the ink plate, but
                        Message 11 of 21 , Apr 28 7:19 PM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I believe that the V-36 uses 1.750" rollers--thus your setting problem. That
                          quarter of an inch makes a big difference. Rollers are set to the ink plate,
                          but then because bases and photopolymer plates, especially those attached
                          with adhesive, may not be right at .918, then the rollers have to be set to
                          the plate being printed rather than the inkplate, which was at .918 when the
                          press was manufactured. An upside down plastic milk crate makes an ideal
                          stool for sitting on when working on the roller adjustments.

                          fritz

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Peter Fraterdeus" <peterf@...>
                          To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 11:39 AM
                          Subject: [PPLetterpress] Miehle V36 Rollers and PP


                          Speaking of rollers, did I read somewhere recently that the Miehle V36 uses
                          a different diameter roller than the V50?

                          I got some (donated) V50 rollers (exactly 2" diameter) on the press, and
                          can't seem to make the adjustment both high enough to keep from hitting my
                          base, (not to mention mushing all over the fine lines in the plate) and also
                          close enough to the vibrator to get positive action. I've also noticed a bit
                          of spring in the form, which of course could affect this, but after dealing
                          with that, still can't get both a light touch AND positive traction from the
                          vibrator.

                          Thanks for input!

                          PF
                          -------------------


                          Peter Fraterdeus
                          Exquisite letterpress takes time™
                          http://slowprint.com/

                          IdeasWords : Idea Swords
                          Communication Strategy
                          Semiotx.com @ideaswords



                          ------------------------------------

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                        • Peter Fraterdeus
                          Thanks a million Fritz. I just knew you d be the man with the goods ;-) Sounds like I m gonna need some new rollers! Guess it s probably ok to run 2 for
                          Message 12 of 21 , Apr 29 12:48 AM
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                            Thanks a million Fritz. I just knew you'd be the man with the goods ;-)

                            Sounds like I'm gonna need some new rollers! Guess it's probably ok to
                            run 2" for distribution and fountain, no?

                            Cheers
                            PF

                            Slowprint.com / Semiotx.com
                            google voice 1 563 223 8231
                            peterf@...

                            From iPhone plz excuse brevity!

                            On Apr 28, 2010, at 9:19 PM, Fritz Klinke <nagraph@...> wrote:

                            > I believe that the V-36 uses 1.750" rollers--thus your setting
                            > problem. That
                            > quarter of an inch makes a big difference. Rollers are set to the
                            > ink plate,
                            > but then because bases and ...
                          • heytrollop
                            Speaking of Miehle V36... there s one in Sacramento that s about to get sent to the scrap yard if no one wants it by this weekend... seems sad. But I don t
                            Message 13 of 21 , Apr 29 3:26 PM
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                              Speaking of Miehle V36... there's one in Sacramento that's about to get sent to the scrap yard if no one wants it by this weekend... seems sad. But I don't think I have the space.

                              Raven

                              --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Thanks a million Fritz. I just knew you'd be the man with the goods ;-)
                              >
                              > Sounds like I'm gonna need some new rollers! Guess it's probably ok to
                              > run 2" for distribution and fountain, no?
                              >
                              > Cheers
                              > PF
                              >
                              > Slowprint.com / Semiotx.com
                              > google voice 1 563 223 8231
                              > peterf@...
                              >
                              > From iPhone plz excuse brevity!
                              >
                              > On Apr 28, 2010, at 9:19 PM, Fritz Klinke <nagraph@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > > I believe that the V-36 uses 1.750" rollers--thus your setting
                              > > problem. That
                              > > quarter of an inch makes a big difference. Rollers are set to the
                              > > ink plate,
                              > > but then because bases and ...
                              >
                            • Peter Fraterdeus
                              Really sad to see these endangered species be dumped on the heap... Slowprint.com / Semiotx.com google voice 1 563 223 8231 peterf@design.org From iPhone plz
                              Message 14 of 21 , Apr 29 6:48 PM
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                                Really sad to see these endangered species be dumped on the heap...

                                Slowprint.com / Semiotx.com
                                google voice 1 563 223 8231
                                peterf@...

                                From iPhone plz excuse brevity!

                                On Apr 29, 2010, at 5:26 PM, heytrollop <heytrollop@...> wrote:

                                >
                                > Speaking of Miehle V36... there's one in Sacramento that's about to
                                > get sent to the scrap yard if no one wants it by this weekend...
                                > seems sad. But I don't think I have the space.
                                >
                                > Raven
                                >
                                > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@...>
                                > wrote:
                                >>
                                >> Thanks a million Fritz. I just knew you'd be the man with the
                                >> goods ;-)
                                >>
                                >> Sounds like I'm gonna need some new rollers! Guess it's probably ok
                                >> to
                                >> run 2" for distribution and fountain, no?
                                >>
                                >> Cheers
                                >> PF
                                >>
                                >> Slowprint.com / Semiotx.com
                                >> google voice 1 563 223 8231
                                >> peterf@...
                                >>
                                >> From iPhone plz excuse brevity!
                                >>
                                >> On Apr 28, 2010, at 9:19 PM, Fritz Klinke <nagraph@...> wrote:
                                >>
                                >>> I believe that the V-36 uses 1.750" rollers--thus your setting
                                >>> problem. That
                                >>> quarter of an inch makes a big difference. Rollers are set to the
                                >>> ink plate,
                                >>> but then because bases and ...
                                >>
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
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