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OT: Print estimate software?

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  • Katelynn Corrigan
    An offtopic post, please, hold the gunfire. Does anyone recommend any print estimating software? I m getting fed up with my current system (or lack of system,
    Message 1 of 22 , Jan 19, 2010
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      An offtopic post, please, hold the gunfire.

      Does anyone recommend any print estimating software? I'm getting fed up with my current system (or lack of system, which mostly involves reading numbers off a spread sheet and entering them into another document and adding it up.) Or should I just take an Excel class and learn how to really use a spreadsheet? :)

      Thanks!

      -Katey

      _________________________________________________________________
      Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
      http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390709/direct/01/

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Harold Kyle
      Well whatever you decide, that Excel class is going to be money/time well spent (and not only for estimating). I hope that helps! Harold On Tue, Jan 19, 2010
      Message 2 of 22 , Jan 19, 2010
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        Well whatever you decide, that Excel class is going to be money/time well
        spent (and not only for estimating).

        I hope that helps!
        Harold

        On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 9:46 PM, Katelynn Corrigan <
        crazyprettybird@...> wrote:

        >
        >
        >
        > An offtopic post, please, hold the gunfire.
        >
        > Does anyone recommend any print estimating software? I'm getting fed up
        > with my current system (or lack of system, which mostly involves reading
        > numbers off a spread sheet and entering them into another document and
        > adding it up.) Or should I just take an Excel class and learn how to really
        > use a spreadsheet? :)
        >
        > Thanks!
        >
        > -Katey
        >
        > __________________________________________________________
        > Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
        > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390709/direct/01/
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >



        --
        ---
        Boxcar Press
        501 W. Fayette St. #222
        Syracuse, NY 13204
        www.boxcarpress.com


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Amber Ellis-Seguine
        Sorry off topic, what is wrong with LetPress? I don t know where else to ask. I figure if it is just me you would all know. Thanks, Amber
        Message 3 of 22 , Jan 19, 2010
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          Sorry off topic, what is wrong with LetPress? I don't know where else
          to ask. I figure if it is just me you would all know.

          Thanks,
          Amber


          On Jan 19, 2010, at 7:40 PM, Harold Kyle wrote:

          > Well whatever you decide, that Excel class is going to be money/time
          > well
          > spent (and not only for estimating).
          >
          > I hope that helps!
          > Harold
          >
          > On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 9:46 PM, Katelynn Corrigan <
          > crazyprettybird@...> wrote:
          >
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> An offtopic post, please, hold the gunfire.
          >>
          >> Does anyone recommend any print estimating software? I'm getting
          >> fed up
          >> with my current system (or lack of system, which mostly involves
          >> reading
          >> numbers off a spread sheet and entering them into another document
          >> and
          >> adding it up.) Or should I just take an Excel class and learn how
          >> to really
          >> use a spreadsheet? :)
          >>
          >> Thanks!
          >>
          >> -Katey
          >>
          >> __________________________________________________________
          >> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
          >> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390709/direct/01/
          >>
          >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          > --
          > ---
          > Boxcar Press
          > 501 W. Fayette St. #222
          > Syracuse, NY 13204
          > www.boxcarpress.com
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
        • Peter Fraterdeus
          ... I greatly prefer Quantrix over Excel. It s a symbolic spreadsheet... Makes so much more sense than excel, it s hard to get used to it ;-) I do all me
          Message 4 of 22 , Jan 19, 2010
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            On 19 Jan 2010, at 9:40 PM, Harold Kyle wrote:

            > Well whatever you decide, that Excel class is going to be money/time well
            > spent (and not only for estimating).


            I greatly prefer Quantrix over Excel.
            It's a symbolic spreadsheet... Makes so much more sense than excel, it's hard to get used to it ;-)

            I do all me estimatin' wid it.

            Of course, that doesn't seem to help with actually making money

            ;-)

            Also, if you don't already have Excel, be sure to get some version of OpenOffice for your preferred OS instead.
            NeoOffice for Mac OSX. This is the open-source 'office suite' - reads and writes all of the 'standard' (ie Msoft) files as well.

            Peter Fraterdeus
            Exquisite letterpress takes time™
            http://slowprint.com/

            IdeasWords : Idea Swords
            Communication Strategy
            Semiotx.com @ideaswords

            >
            > I hope that helps!
            > Harold
            >
            > On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 9:46 PM, Katelynn Corrigan <
            > crazyprettybird@...> wrote:
            >
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> An offtopic post, please, hold the gunfire.
            >>
            >> Does anyone recommend any print estimating software? I'm getting fed up
            >> with my current system (or lack of system, which mostly involves reading
            >> numbers off a spread sheet and entering them into another document and
            >> adding it up.) Or should I just take an Excel class and learn how to really
            >> use a spreadsheet? :)
            >>
            >> Thanks!
            >>
            >> -Katey
            >>
            > ---
            > Boxcar Press
            > 501 W. Fayette St. #222
            > Syracuse, NY 13204
            > www.boxcarpress.com
            >
          • David Esslemont
            Peter Never heard of Quantrix . . . what is a symbolic spreadsheet? I developed my own excel breakeven analysis and published price breakdown spreadsheets
            Message 5 of 22 , Jan 19, 2010
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              Peter

              Never heard of "Quantrix" . . . what is a symbolic spreadsheet? I
              developed my own excel breakeven analysis and published price
              breakdown spreadsheets (for books), do you know of any propriety tools?

              On Jan 19, 2010, at 9:59 PM, Peter Fraterdeus wrote:

              > On 19 Jan 2010, at 9:40 PM, Harold Kyle wrote:
              >
              >> Well whatever you decide, that Excel class is going to be money/
              >> time well
              >> spent (and not only for estimating).
              >
              >
              > I greatly prefer Quantrix over Excel.
              > It's a symbolic spreadsheet... Makes so much more sense than excel,
              > it's hard to get used to it ;-)
              >
              > I do all me estimatin' wid it.
              >
              > Of course, that doesn't seem to help with actually making money
              >
              > ;-)
              >
              > Also, if you don't already have Excel, be sure to get some version
              > of OpenOffice for your preferred OS instead.
              > NeoOffice for Mac OSX. This is the open-source 'office suite' -
              > reads and writes all of the 'standard' (ie Msoft) files as well.
              >
              > Peter Fraterdeus
              > Exquisite letterpress takes time�
              > http://slowprint.com/
              >
              > IdeasWords : Idea Swords
              > Communication Strategy
              > Semiotx.com @ideaswords
              >
              >>
              >> I hope that helps!
              >> Harold
              >>
              >> On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 9:46 PM, Katelynn Corrigan <
              >> crazyprettybird@...> wrote:
              >>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>
              >>> An offtopic post, please, hold the gunfire.
              >>>
              >>> Does anyone recommend any print estimating software? I'm getting
              >>> fed up
              >>> with my current system (or lack of system, which mostly involves
              >>> reading
              >>> numbers off a spread sheet and entering them into another document
              >>> and
              >>> adding it up.) Or should I just take an Excel class and learn how
              >>> to really
              >>> use a spreadsheet? :)
              >>>
              >>> Thanks!
              >>>
              >>> -Katey
              >>>
              >> ---
              >> Boxcar Press
              >> 501 W. Fayette St. #222
              >> Syracuse, NY 13204
              >> www.boxcarpress.com
              >>
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              David Esslemont
              Solmentes Press
              www.solmentes.com
              http://solmentes.blogspot.com


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • bielerpr
              I d agree, take the Excel class, it is the only accounting/financial software you can consistently trust, and I am not a fan of Microsoft (Word hasn t worked
              Message 6 of 22 , Jan 20, 2010
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                I'd agree, take the Excel class, it is the only accounting/financial software you can consistently trust, and I am not a fan of Microsoft (Word hasn't worked since I upgraded to OS X) and I do have a bit of an accounting background. I have tried alternatives to Excel and the results were catastrophic. You can't risk your financial or economic information. Excel doesn't have the bells and whistles and it may not be convenient in all cases, especially if you don't like building your own templates, but it is reliable, and documents going way back when are still readable. It is the standard and this is actually very important, especially, if you've ever been audited by the IRS, etc. They are not going to accept excuses you might attribute to program malfunctions because you no longer have the software to access to your old files, can't open them, or they are corrupt, etc. That is your problem, not theirs.

                Gerald
                http://BielerPress.blogspot.com


                --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Harold Kyle <harold@...> wrote:
                >
                > Well whatever you decide, that Excel class is going to be money/time well
                > spent (and not only for estimating).
                >
                > I hope that helps!
                > Harold
                >
                > On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 9:46 PM, Katelynn Corrigan <
                > crazyprettybird@...> wrote:
                >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > An offtopic post, please, hold the gunfire.
                > >
                > > Does anyone recommend any print estimating software? I'm getting fed up
                > > with my current system (or lack of system, which mostly involves reading
                > > numbers off a spread sheet and entering them into another document and
                > > adding it up.) Or should I just take an Excel class and learn how to really
                > > use a spreadsheet? :)
                > >
                > > Thanks!
                > >
                > > -Katey
                > >
                > > __________________________________________________________
                > > Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
                > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390709/direct/01/
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                > --
                > ---
                > Boxcar Press
                > 501 W. Fayette St. #222
                > Syracuse, NY 13204
                > www.boxcarpress.com
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Gary
                You may not even need to take the class if all you need to do is basic math functions and calling/recalling data. The cell commands in Excel are very simple
                Message 7 of 22 , Jan 20, 2010
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                  You may not even need to take the class if all you need to do is basic math functions and calling/recalling data. The cell commands in Excel are very simple at that level, and after a while you get a "feel" for it. It's one of those things that you can get as deep into as you want or need to. But you can do an awful lot, probably most of what you need to do, with basic math and formatting commands. Of course, a class would be much more comprehensive, but **may** not be necessary to get started, at least.

                  Computing a price based upon cost, quantity and margin, for instance, involves very basic algebraic (let's just say arithmetic, math) commands. That can be picked up in one session with a tutorial.

                  Just a note of encouragement. I might note that I use an old version of Excel from Office 2004 for data sent between myself and the parent company I work for.

                  -gary
                • dane
                  someone suggested a free print estimating programme called Morning Flight to me recently - downloaded it (http://www.printfire.com), but as yet haven t had a
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jan 20, 2010
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                    someone suggested a free print estimating programme called 'Morning
                    Flight' to me recently - downloaded it (http://www.printfire.com),
                    but as yet haven't had a chance to try it - appreciate that it's for
                    offset litho, but can set up hourly rates for a few different presses
                    and can specify plate costs, etc. Anyone already using this or
                    similar, or should we stick with a spreadsheet?

                    regards,

                    Dan


                    On 20 Jan 2010, at 02:46, Katelynn Corrigan wrote:

                    >
                    > An offtopic post, please, hold the gunfire.
                    >
                    > Does anyone recommend any print estimating software? I'm getting
                    > fed up with my current system (or lack of system, which mostly
                    > involves reading numbers off a spread sheet and entering them into
                    > another document and adding it up.) Or should I just take an Excel
                    > class and learn how to really use a spreadsheet? :)
                    >
                    > Thanks!
                    >
                    > -Katey
                    >
                    > __________________________________________________________
                    > Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
                    > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390709/direct/01/
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • CHAPMAN RIDER
                    Check out Print Smith . We have used it for years and love it. ... From: Katelynn Corrigan Subject: [PPLetterpress] OT: Print
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jan 20, 2010
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                      Check out "Print Smith". We have used it for years and love it.

                      --- On Tue, 1/19/10, Katelynn Corrigan <crazyprettybird@...> wrote:

                      From: Katelynn Corrigan <crazyprettybird@...>
                      Subject: [PPLetterpress] OT: Print estimate software?
                      To: ppletterpress@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Tuesday, January 19, 2010, 9:46 PM







                       











                      An offtopic post, please, hold the gunfire.



                      Does anyone recommend any print estimating software? I'm getting fed up with my current system (or lack of system, which mostly involves reading numbers off a spread sheet and entering them into another document and adding it up.) Or should I just take an Excel class and learn how to really use a spreadsheet? :)



                      Thanks!



                      -Katey



                      ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

                      Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.

                      http://clk.atdmt com/GBL/go/ 196390709/ direct/01/



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

























                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Bryan Hutcheson
                      most of the print estimating software is ridiculously expensive. We setup extensive worksheets in Filemaker Pro. If I were going to suggest taking a class, It
                      Message 10 of 22 , Jan 20, 2010
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                        most of the print estimating software is ridiculously expensive. We
                        setup extensive worksheets in Filemaker Pro.

                        If I were going to suggest taking a class, It would definitely be
                        Filemaker. You can build just about anything that is database driven
                        with calculations etc. It's intuitive and user-friendly. Two other
                        pluses...1) the mac version is very robust, 2) it comes with a whole
                        set of templates that can be easily rebuilt or modified to meet just
                        about any user's requirements...including print.

                        If you've done any kind of basic database work, you could probably
                        skip taking a class and use Filemaker right out of the box. It has a
                        drag-n-drop, graphic interface, much like using a basic version of
                        dreamweaver...




                        bryan hutcheson
                        - manifesto letterpress
                        - industrie standard
                        - holyoke fine papers

                        4 open square way, L101
                        holyoke, ma 01040
                        p:413.532.3360
                        f:413.532.3387
                        www.manifestopress.com
                        _________________________________
                        full-service commercial letterpress
                        announcements
                        stationery
                        packaging
                        posters






                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • CHAPMAN RIDER
                        You might also consider using the Franklin Guide as a reference for pricing all print and bindery operations. This could at least be a good starting point
                        Message 11 of 22 , Jan 20, 2010
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                          You might also consider using the "Franklin Guide" as a reference for pricing all print and bindery operations. This could at least be a good starting point for reviewing or establishing your prices.

                          --- On Wed, 1/20/10, Bryan Hutcheson <bryan@...> wrote:

                          From: Bryan Hutcheson <bryan@...>
                          Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] OT: Print estimate software?
                          To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 2:54 PM







                           









                          most of the print estimating software is ridiculously expensive. We

                          setup extensive worksheets in Filemaker Pro.



                          If I were going to suggest taking a class, It would definitely be

                          Filemaker. You can build just about anything that is database driven

                          with calculations etc. It's intuitive and user-friendly. Two other

                          pluses...1) the mac version is very robust, 2) it comes with a whole

                          set of templates that can be easily rebuilt or modified to meet just

                          about any user's requirements. ..including print.



                          If you've done any kind of basic database work, you could probably

                          skip taking a class and use Filemaker right out of the box. It has a

                          drag-n-drop, graphic interface, much like using a basic version of

                          dreamweaver. ..



                          bryan hutcheson

                          - manifesto letterpress

                          - industrie standard

                          - holyoke fine papers



                          4 open square way, L101

                          holyoke, ma 01040

                          p:413.532.3360

                          f:413.532.3387

                          www.manifestopress. com

                          ____________ _________ _________ ___

                          full-service commercial letterpress

                          announcements

                          stationery

                          packaging

                          posters



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

























                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • bielerpr
                          Most sound idea for estimating I ve ever heard was proffered by Philip Gallo of The Hermetic Press http://hermeticpress.blogspot.com/ I just look at the
                          Message 12 of 22 , Jan 20, 2010
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                            Most sound idea for estimating I've ever heard was proffered by Philip Gallo of The Hermetic Press

                            http://hermeticpress.blogspot.com/

                            "I just look at the client's shoes."

                            Gerald
                            http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
                          • Peter Fraterdeus
                            Excellent advice! ;-) FIne use of the poetic/literary verb proffered as well! Thanks Gerald! P ... Peter Fraterdeus Exquisite letterpress takes time™
                            Message 13 of 22 , Jan 20, 2010
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                              Excellent advice! ;-)

                              FIne use of the "poetic/literary" verb 'proffered' as well!

                              Thanks Gerald!

                              P

                              On 20 Jan 2010, at 10:44 PM, bielerpr wrote:

                              > Most sound idea for estimating I've ever heard was proffered by Philip Gallo of The Hermetic Press
                              >
                              > http://hermeticpress.blogspot.com/
                              >
                              > "I just look at the client's shoes."
                              >
                              > Gerald
                              > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
                              >

                              Peter Fraterdeus
                              Exquisite letterpress takes time™
                              http://slowprint.com/

                              IdeasWords : Idea Swords
                              Communication Strategy
                              Semiotx.com @ideaswords
                            • Peter Fraterdeus
                              Hi David I know this is continuing an off topic thread, but perhaps a bit of interest remains ;-) Quantrix was originally designed for the NeXT OS (remember
                              Message 14 of 22 , Jan 20, 2010
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                                Hi David

                                I know this is continuing an off topic thread, but perhaps a bit of interest remains ;-)

                                Quantrix was originally designed for the NeXT OS (remember that? It's now become OS X!).
                                It's an object-oriented application which has become widely used in the economic and financial industry for modeling of multi-variate projections.

                                I bought it because after 20 something years of using Excel (and then NeoOffice Calc) I got disgusted with having to rebuild a sheet full of formulae every time I wanted to update my business processes. As a programmer it made me crazy.


                                One day I was so fed up with having to search and replace a formula term in 1000s cells and thought that there must be a better way. Google'd "Object symbolic spreadsheet" and Quantrix was at the top of the list.


                                Not to get into the gory details, but Quantrix removes the formulas from the grid, and lets you use named matrices and categories in your formulas. Grids (rows and columns) are a byproduct of using the various categories in your matrix.

                                ...

                                Screen shot here:
                                http://skitch.com/peterf/ntpc5/quantrixslowprintestimator.jpg

                                Still hoping to see you in Dubuque sometime!
                                (And for me to get to Decorah sometime!)

                                Maybe when the ice monsters have retreated ;-)

                                Cheers!

                                peter


                                On 19 Jan 2010, at 10:59 PM, David Esslemont wrote:

                                > Peter
                                >
                                > Never heard of "Quantrix" . . . what is a symbolic spreadsheet? I
                                > developed my own excel breakeven analysis and published price
                                > breakdown spreadsheets (for books), do you know of any propriety tools?
                                >
                                > On Jan 19, 2010, at 9:59 PM, Peter Fraterdeus wrote:
                                >
                                >> On 19 Jan 2010, at 9:40 PM, Harold Kyle wrote:
                                >>
                                >>> Well whatever you decide, that Excel class is going to be money/
                                >>> time well
                                >>> spent (and not only for estimating).
                                >>
                                >>
                                >> I greatly prefer Quantrix over Excel.
                                >> It's a symbolic spreadsheet... Makes so much more sense than excel,
                                >> it's hard to get used to it ;-)
                                >>
                                >> I do all me estimatin' wid it.
                                >>
                                >> Of course, that doesn't seem to help with actually making money
                                >>
                                >> ;-)
                                >>
                                >> Also, if you don't already have Excel, be sure to get some version
                                >> of OpenOffice for your preferred OS instead.
                                >> NeoOffice for Mac OSX. This is the open-source 'office suite' -
                                >> reads and writes all of the 'standard' (ie Msoft) files as well.
                                >>
                                >> Peter Fraterdeus
                                >> Exquisite letterpress takes time˙
                                >> http://slowprint.com/
                                >>
                                >> IdeasWords : Idea Swords
                                >> Communication Strategy
                                >> Semiotx.com @ideaswords
                                >>
                                >>>
                                >>> I hope that helps!
                                >>> Harold
                                >>>
                                >>> On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 9:46 PM, Katelynn Corrigan <
                                >>> crazyprettybird@...> wrote:
                                >>>
                                >>>>
                                >>>>
                                >>>>
                                >>>> An offtopic post, please, hold the gunfire.
                                >>>>
                                >>>> Does anyone recommend any print estimating software? I'm getting
                                >>>> fed up
                                >>>> with my current system (or lack of system, which mostly involves
                                >>>> reading
                                >>>> numbers off a spread sheet and entering them into another document
                                >>>> and
                                >>>> adding it up.) Or should I just take an Excel class and learn how
                                >>>> to really
                                >>>> use a spreadsheet? :)
                                >>>>
                                >>>> Thanks!
                                >>>>
                                >>>> -Katey
                                >>>>
                                >>> ---
                                >>> Boxcar Press
                                >>> 501 W. Fayette St. #222
                                >>> Syracuse, NY 13204
                                >>> www.boxcarpress.com
                                >>>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >> ------------------------------------
                                >>
                                >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                > David Esslemont
                                > Solmentes Press
                                > www.solmentes.com
                                > http://solmentes.blogspot.com
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >

                                Peter Fraterdeus
                                Exquisite letterpress takes time™
                                http://slowprint.com/

                                IdeasWords : Idea Swords
                                Communication Strategy
                                Semiotx.com @ideaswords
                              • David Esslemont
                                Thanks Peter, okay . . . I ll have to come down to Dubuque so you can show me how you use Quantrix. ... David Esslemont Solmentes Press www.solmentes.com
                                Message 15 of 22 , Jan 21, 2010
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                                  Thanks Peter, okay . . . I'll have to come down to Dubuque so you can
                                  show me how you use Quantrix.

                                  On Jan 21, 2010, at 12:52 AM, Peter Fraterdeus wrote:

                                  > Hi David
                                  >
                                  > I know this is continuing an off topic thread, but perhaps a bit of
                                  > interest remains ;-)
                                  >
                                  > Quantrix was originally designed for the NeXT OS (remember that?
                                  > It's now become OS X!).
                                  > It's an object-oriented application which has become widely used in
                                  > the economic and financial industry for modeling of multi-variate
                                  > projections.
                                  >
                                  > I bought it because after 20 something years of using Excel (and
                                  > then NeoOffice Calc) I got disgusted with having to rebuild a sheet
                                  > full of formulae every time I wanted to update my business
                                  > processes. As a programmer it made me crazy.
                                  >
                                  > One day I was so fed up with having to search and replace a formula
                                  > term in 1000s cells and thought that there must be a better way.
                                  > Google'd "Object symbolic spreadsheet" and Quantrix was at the top
                                  > of the list.
                                  >
                                  > Not to get into the gory details, but Quantrix removes the formulas
                                  > from the grid, and lets you use named matrices and categories in
                                  > your formulas. Grids (rows and columns) are a byproduct of using the
                                  > various categories in your matrix.
                                  >
                                  > ...
                                  >
                                  > Screen shot here:
                                  > http://skitch.com/peterf/ntpc5/quantrixslowprintestimator.jpg
                                  >
                                  > Still hoping to see you in Dubuque sometime!
                                  > (And for me to get to Decorah sometime!)
                                  >
                                  > Maybe when the ice monsters have retreated ;-)
                                  >
                                  > Cheers!
                                  >
                                  > peter
                                  >
                                  > On 19 Jan 2010, at 10:59 PM, David Esslemont wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > Peter
                                  > >
                                  > > Never heard of "Quantrix" . . . what is a symbolic spreadsheet? I
                                  > > developed my own excel breakeven analysis and published price
                                  > > breakdown spreadsheets (for books), do you know of any propriety
                                  > tools?
                                  > >
                                  > > On Jan 19, 2010, at 9:59 PM, Peter Fraterdeus wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >> On 19 Jan 2010, at 9:40 PM, Harold Kyle wrote:
                                  > >>
                                  > >>> Well whatever you decide, that Excel class is going to be money/
                                  > >>> time well
                                  > >>> spent (and not only for estimating).
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >> I greatly prefer Quantrix over Excel.
                                  > >> It's a symbolic spreadsheet... Makes so much more sense than excel,
                                  > >> it's hard to get used to it ;-)
                                  > >>
                                  > >> I do all me estimatin' wid it.
                                  > >>
                                  > >> Of course, that doesn't seem to help with actually making money
                                  > >>
                                  > >> ;-)
                                  > >>
                                  > >> Also, if you don't already have Excel, be sure to get some version
                                  > >> of OpenOffice for your preferred OS instead.
                                  > >> NeoOffice for Mac OSX. This is the open-source 'office suite' -
                                  > >> reads and writes all of the 'standard' (ie Msoft) files as well.
                                  > >>
                                  > >> Peter Fraterdeus
                                  > >> Exquisite letterpress takes time˙
                                  > >> http://slowprint.com/
                                  > >>
                                  > >> IdeasWords : Idea Swords
                                  > >> Communication Strategy
                                  > >> Semiotx.com @ideaswords
                                  > >>
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>> I hope that helps!
                                  > >>> Harold
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>> On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 9:46 PM, Katelynn Corrigan <
                                  > >>> crazyprettybird@...> wrote:
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>> An offtopic post, please, hold the gunfire.
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>> Does anyone recommend any print estimating software? I'm getting
                                  > >>>> fed up
                                  > >>>> with my current system (or lack of system, which mostly involves
                                  > >>>> reading
                                  > >>>> numbers off a spread sheet and entering them into another
                                  > document
                                  > >>>> and
                                  > >>>> adding it up.) Or should I just take an Excel class and learn how
                                  > >>>> to really
                                  > >>>> use a spreadsheet? :)
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>> Thanks!
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>>> -Katey
                                  > >>>>
                                  > >>> ---
                                  > >>> Boxcar Press
                                  > >>> 501 W. Fayette St. #222
                                  > >>> Syracuse, NY 13204
                                  > >>> www.boxcarpress.com
                                  > >>>
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >> ------------------------------------
                                  > >>
                                  > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > >>
                                  > > David Esslemont
                                  > > Solmentes Press
                                  > > www.solmentes.com
                                  > > http://solmentes.blogspot.com
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ------------------------------------
                                  > >
                                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > Peter Fraterdeus
                                  > Exquisite letterpress takes time™
                                  > http://slowprint.com/
                                  >
                                  > IdeasWords : Idea Swords
                                  > Communication Strategy
                                  > Semiotx.com @ideaswords
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >

                                  David Esslemont
                                  Solmentes Press
                                  www.solmentes.com
                                  http://solmentes.blogspot.com


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Jason Wedekind
                                  One other solution for OS X is Billings and it s project management app Daylite. Combined with a spreadsheet for calculating paper and plates (which I haven t
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Jan 22, 2010
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    One other solution for OS X is Billings and it's project management
                                    app Daylite. Combined with a spreadsheet for calculating paper and
                                    plates (which I haven't gotten around yet to doing) it's powerful,
                                    quick, syncs seamlessly with your address book, and has fully
                                    customizeable invoices. Downside is it doesn't have any real
                                    accounting features. But once I got used to it and the shortcuts it
                                    provides, estimates are generated pretty quick and then the move to
                                    invoicing is even quicker. It also has time tracking features if your
                                    in front of your computer a lot.

                                    I think it has a free 30 day trial, too. As does Daylite which is for
                                    project management. Does anybody here use Daylite? I'm about to make
                                    the leap.

                                    http://www.marketcircle.com/


                                    Jason Wedekind
                                    http://www.genghiskern.com
                                    APA 801
                                  • Peter Fraterdeus
                                    Hi Jason Indeed, I use both Billings and Daylight. three and a half out of five stars. Missing star is due to stupid UI oversights like being unable to sort
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Jan 22, 2010
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                                      Hi Jason

                                      Indeed, I use both Billings and Daylight.
                                      three and a half out of five stars. Missing star is due to stupid UI oversights like being unable to sort clients by last name (DOH???) Tell them you won't buy it until that's fixed, eh? ;-)

                                      Other issues are slowly coming around.
                                      Started using the Daylight and Billings iPhone apps recently, and they are very useful indeed.

                                      However, for actual estimating, neither has any value to a printer ;-)

                                      I end up pasting my estimates into a comment field in Billings, since it's a major headache to give multiple options (same job on four different stocks, for instance) in the Billings interface.

                                      Cheers

                                      Peter

                                      PS, "it's" project management? Watch those apostrophes!
                                      (Sorry, "it's" an obsession ;-)

                                      On 22 Jan 2010, at 10:40 AM, Jason Wedekind wrote:

                                      > One other solution for OS X is Billings and it's project management
                                      > app Daylite. Combined with a spreadsheet for calculating paper and
                                      > plates (which I haven't gotten around yet to doing) it's powerful,
                                      > quick, syncs seamlessly with your address book, and has fully
                                      > customizeable invoices. Downside is it doesn't have any real
                                      > accounting features. But once I got used to it and the shortcuts it
                                      > provides, estimates are generated pretty quick and then the move to
                                      > invoicing is even quicker. It also has time tracking features if your
                                      > in front of your computer a lot.
                                      >
                                      > I think it has a free 30 day trial, too. As does Daylite which is for
                                      > project management. Does anybody here use Daylite? I'm about to make
                                      > the leap.
                                      >
                                      > http://www.marketcircle.com/
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Jason Wedekind
                                      > http://www.genghiskern.com
                                      > APA 801
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ------------------------------------
                                      >
                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >

                                      Peter Fraterdeus
                                      Exquisite letterpress takes time™
                                      http://slowprint.com/

                                      IdeasWords : Idea Swords
                                      Communication Strategy
                                      Semiotx.com @ideaswords
                                    • Katelynn Corrigan
                                      Thanks for all the suggestions. I ve resigned myself to taking an Excel class at the local community college, for the short term. The software out there seems
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Jan 22, 2010
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                                        Thanks for all the suggestions. I've resigned myself to taking an Excel class at the local community college, for the short term. The software out there seems a little too much me right now, but maybe when and if I expand (to offset- scandal!) it will make sense.

                                        Be well,

                                        -Katey

                                        _________________________________________________________________
                                        Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft�s powerful SPAM protection.
                                        http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390706/direct/01/

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Lance Williams
                                        Katey, If you are just looking for a very simple printing price calculator, then check out a program I wrote a few years ago for my own calculating of small
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Jan 23, 2010
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                                          Katey,

                                          If you are just looking for a very simple printing price calculator, then
                                          check out a program I wrote a few years ago for my own calculating of small
                                          printing jobs. I don't do a lot of short-run custom work, but it works
                                          well for pricing these jobs for me. It can be found online at:

                                          http://software.kadetstationery.com

                                          Windows only version available, sorry to those of you running Macs and
                                          can't run WIN programs, but I don't have a cross-platform compiler....

                                          - Lance Williams
                                          Williams Stationery Co.
                                          Camden, New York
                                          APA #785


                                          > [Original Message]
                                          > From: Katelynn Corrigan <crazyprettybird@...>
                                          > To: <ppletterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                                          > Date: 1/22/2010 11:41:24 PM
                                          > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: OT: Print estimate software?
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Thanks for all the suggestions. I've resigned myself to taking an Excel
                                          class at the local community college, for the short term. The software out
                                          there seems a little too much me right now, but maybe when and if I expand
                                          (to offset- scandal!) it will make sense.
                                          >
                                          > Be well,
                                          >
                                          > -Katey
                                        • typetom@aol.com
                                          For a completely different approach to print estimates: I use a flat rate based solely on how many set-ups or print-runs are involved. My time is in the set
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Jan 23, 2010
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                                            For a completely different approach to print estimates:

                                            I use a flat rate based solely on how many set-ups or print-runs are
                                            involved. My time is in the set up, not the number of copies; I have to mix and
                                            match ink, and clean the press, in any case. Use of hand-set type or the
                                            cost for making photopolymer plates are included as well - essentially a
                                            trade-off of pleasures and expenses either way, which I'd rather not calculate.
                                            Over time and numerous jobs, it all balances out ok, some things involving
                                            more effort, some less.

                                            Of course the cost of paper stock is separate and depends on quantity and
                                            the actual cost of the paper involved. Any shipping is extra at cost.

                                            If I'm unhappy with the way this works for me, then I would need to adjust
                                            the rate to make it feel right. I have saved hours, if not months, of time
                                            and bookkeeping frustration by this approach. No software necessary.

                                            Enjoy,
                                            Tom


                                            Tom Parson/ Now It's Up To You
                                            157 S Logan, Denver CO 80209
                                            (303) 777-8951 - home & letterpress printshop
                                            (720) 480-5358 - cranky cellphone
                                            _typetom@..._ (mailto:typetom@...)
                                            _www.froglok.com/typetom_ (http://www.froglok.com/typetom/) (way out of
                                            date website!)







                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Scott Rubel
                                            Often, even with software, by the time you ve estimated a job this way and that way and three more what-if s, you ve spent more time on the estimate than on
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Jan 23, 2010
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                                              Often, even with software, by the time you've estimated a job this
                                              way and that way and three more what-if's, you've spent more time on
                                              the estimate than on the job itself.

                                              Software should help, but I've found that a flat rate that's easy for
                                              anyone to calculate encourages quicker decisions by the customer.
                                              which I believe is saving me time.

                                              --Scott

                                              On Jan 23, 2010, at 10:07 AM, typetom@... wrote:

                                              > For a completely different approach to print estimates:
                                              >
                                              > I use a flat rate based solely on how many set-ups or print-runs are
                                              > involved. My time is in the set up, not the number of copies; I
                                              > have to mix and
                                              > match ink, and clean the press, in any case. Use of hand-set type
                                              > or the
                                              > cost for making photopolymer plates are included as well -
                                              > essentially a
                                              > trade-off of pleasures and expenses either way, which I'd rather
                                              > not calculate.
                                              > Over time and numerous jobs, it all balances out ok, some things
                                              > involving
                                              > more effort, some less.
                                              >
                                              > Of course the cost of paper stock is separate and depends on
                                              > quantity and
                                              > the actual cost of the paper involved. Any shipping is extra at cost.
                                              >
                                              > If I'm unhappy with the way this works for me, then I would need
                                              > to adjust
                                              > the rate to make it feel right. I have saved hours, if not months,
                                              > of time
                                              > and bookkeeping frustration by this approach. No software necessary.
                                              >
                                              > Enjoy,
                                              > Tom
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Tom Parson/ Now It's Up To You
                                              > 157 S Logan, Denver CO 80209
                                              > (303) 777-8951 - home & letterpress printshop
                                              > (720) 480-5358 - cranky cellphone
                                              > _typetom@..._ (mailto:typetom@...)
                                              > _www.froglok.com/typetom_ (http://www.froglok.com/typetom/) (way
                                              > out of
                                              > date website!)
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > ------------------------------------
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                            • bielerpr
                                              I d agree, somewhat, I have certain hourly rates for different aspects of the work, and make my estimates/assumptions based on past experience. For supplies
                                              Message 22 of 22 , Jan 23, 2010
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                I'd agree, somewhat, I have certain hourly rates for different aspects of the work, and make my estimates/assumptions based on past experience. For supplies and materials, minimal Excel or just a calculator, usually the latter. I don't like to waste a lot of time on estimating. Sometimes you make a little, sometimes you lose a little. But it seems to me a great waste of time to devote an awful lot of money and time to this (re: investing in specialized software). Better approach, talk to your clients, invest some time in them, become their friends (really; not just because they represent money to you).

                                                Note though, that this is a small scale, fairly intimate approach to the issue, not a rote approach. Tom mentions the "pleasures." Well, hell yeah, anything less and you might as well be selling shoes. Letterpress is more than just doing it, it's sharing it.


                                                Gerald
                                                http://BielerPress.blogspot.com




                                                --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Scott Rubel <scott@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Often, even with software, by the time you've estimated a job this
                                                > way and that way and three more what-if's, you've spent more time on
                                                > the estimate than on the job itself.
                                                >
                                                > Software should help, but I've found that a flat rate that's easy for
                                                > anyone to calculate encourages quicker decisions by the customer.
                                                > which I believe is saving me time.
                                                >
                                                > --Scott
                                                >
                                                > On Jan 23, 2010, at 10:07 AM, typetom@... wrote:
                                                >
                                                > > For a completely different approach to print estimates:
                                                > >
                                                > > I use a flat rate based solely on how many set-ups or print-runs are
                                                > > involved. My time is in the set up, not the number of copies; I
                                                > > have to mix and
                                                > > match ink, and clean the press, in any case. Use of hand-set type
                                                > > or the
                                                > > cost for making photopolymer plates are included as well -
                                                > > essentially a
                                                > > trade-off of pleasures and expenses either way, which I'd rather
                                                > > not calculate.
                                                > > Over time and numerous jobs, it all balances out ok, some things
                                                > > involving
                                                > > more effort, some less.
                                                > >
                                                > > Of course the cost of paper stock is separate and depends on
                                                > > quantity and
                                                > > the actual cost of the paper involved. Any shipping is extra at cost.
                                                > >
                                                > > If I'm unhappy with the way this works for me, then I would need
                                                > > to adjust
                                                > > the rate to make it feel right. I have saved hours, if not months,
                                                > > of time
                                                > > and bookkeeping frustration by this approach. No software necessary.
                                                > >
                                                > > Enjoy,
                                                > > Tom
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > Tom Parson/ Now It's Up To You
                                                > > 157 S Logan, Denver CO 80209
                                                > > (303) 777-8951 - home & letterpress printshop
                                                > > (720) 480-5358 - cranky cellphone
                                                > > _typetom@..._ (mailto:typetom@...)
                                                > > _www.froglok.com/typetom_ (http://www.froglok.com/typetom/) (way
                                                > > out of
                                                > > date website!)
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > ------------------------------------
                                                > >
                                                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                >
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