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Re: Fox River Teton

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  • bielerpr
    Hi Well, the problem isn t just this, it s also because we, as consumers continually fail to support the good products. Curtis Mills didn t fail because they
    Message 1 of 20 , Jan 14, 2010
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      Hi

      Well, the problem isn't just this, it's also because we, as consumers continually fail to support the good products. Curtis Mills didn't fail because they were bought out by the corporates, they failed because we failed, we did not support their efforts to produce fine quality commercial papers. Just like the type foundries failed as we preferred to buy Monotype or Linotype because they were cheaper. How many continual posts does one have to look at on Briar Discussions to come to the realization that we letterpress folks are a hopeless lot. Folks would rather make their own pathetic bases than buy a precision Bunting or even a Boxcar base. DIY is King. Cheaper is better, cheapest is best. Folks seriously consider the plastic "Letterpress Machine" as an economically viable printing press. Why take the easy out and point the finger at the usual suspects? And somehow feel justified? We are responsible as well. And we deserve this.

      Gerald
      http://BielerPress.blogspot.com


      --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@...> wrote:
      >
      > My architect father (now long retired) used to rail against the MBA class ruining all that was worthwhile about American business decision making.
      >
      > No doubt the same crowd is determining whether these classic brands live or die.
      > The ugly megacorporate consumption of small paper mills (and other manufacturers -- often by conglomerates with no historical interest in the industry they bought in to, let alone the brands) since the 1960s has littered the cultural landscape with the sucked dry corpses of once proud brands which had lasted decades or more, but weren't able to pull the margins that the bland "popular" brands could.
      >
      > Sadly, many decent paper options are just another casualty of this disgusting, and far from finished, economic disease.
      >
      > My two cents.
      > Proud to be sick and tired of business as usual.
      > Tax the corporate banking bastards back to the stone age, and build handmade paper mills for the unemployed to get back to work! $140 billion in bonuses indeed. Sick. Sick. Sick.
      >
      > Capitalism has clearly failed, except, somehow -- surprise, surprise -- for the filthy rich. (and amazing how their apologists conveniently ignore the total meltdown in 2008, now that the Dow Jones has risen miraculously from the crypt)
      >
      > Time for a new approach.
      >
      > Apologies for the meta-economic theory, I know we were just talking about paper
      >
      > Not 'commercial' paper.
      >
      > ;-)
      >
      > PF
      >
      > On 14 Jan 2010, at 11:39 PM, Matt Kelsey wrote:
      >
      > > Whiting Paper Co. has Brockway paper and envelopes available with deckled
      > > edge. I haven't tried it yet and it isn't widely distributed as far as I
      > > know, but it is available through paper-papers.com, and I have had good
      > > response from them in the past for sample requests as well as for filling
      > > orders quickly. Whiting is a small specialty paper mill, from what I have
      > > read... perhaps they are more likely to support low volume products like
      > > this. But it's a shame to see similar papers disappear when they were once
      > > widely available. My Kelly Paper catalog from just last year lists Teton
      > > text, cover, and envelopes, stocked locally...
      > >
      > > Matt Kelsey
      >
      > Peter Fraterdeus
      > Exquisite Letterpress from Slow Print Studios
      > http://slowprint.com/
      >
    • Ed Inman
      Strathmore Pastelle is currently available online at the Mohawk store, including the hard-to-find 100 lb. cover weight. Envelopes too.
      Message 2 of 20 , Jan 15, 2010
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        Strathmore Pastelle is currently available online at the Mohawk store, including the hard-to-find 100 lb. cover weight. Envelopes too.

        http://www.mohawkpaperstore.com/paper-product-lines

        Seems to be down only to the three white shades though.

        Hope it doesn't get discontinued. It seems far more popular than Teton ever was among commercial printers.
        Ed


        -----Original Message-----
        >From: Eric <Megalonyx@...>
        >Today I heard that Pastelle is also going to be discontinued at some point. Too bad, since it and Teton both had deckle edge announcement envelopes.
        >--Eric Holub, SF
      • Peter Fraterdeus
        Lone Ranger: Tonto, we re surrounded by Indians! It s looking Hopeless! Tonto: What d you mean WE Kimosabe??? ... (Apologies for the dated, culturally
        Message 3 of 20 , Jan 15, 2010
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          Lone Ranger: "Tonto, we're surrounded by Indians! It's looking Hopeless!"

          Tonto: "What d'you mean 'WE' Kimosabe???

          :-)

          (Apologies for the dated, culturally insensitive references...)

          On 15 Jan 2010, at 1:36 AM, bielerpr wrote:

          > Hi
          >
          > Well, the problem isn't just this, it's also because we, as consumers continually fail to support the good products. Curtis Mills didn't fail because they were bought out by the corporates, they failed because we failed, we did not support their efforts to produce fine quality commercial papers. Just like the type foundries failed as we preferred to buy Monotype or Linotype because they were cheaper. How many continual posts does one have to look at on Briar Discussions to come to the realization that we letterpress folks are a hopeless lot. Folks would rather make their own pathetic bases than buy a precision Bunting or even a Boxcar base. DIY is King. Cheaper is better, cheapest is best. Folks seriously consider the plastic "Letterpress Machine" as an economically viable printing press. Why take the easy out and point the finger at the usual suspects? And somehow feel justified? We are responsible as well. And we deserve this.
          >
          > Gerald
          > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com


          Peter Fraterdeus
          Exquisite letterpress takes time™
          http://slowprint.com/

          IdeasWords : Idea Swords
          Communication Strategy
          Semiotx.com @ideaswords
        • Jessica Spring
          I think Gerald has a valid point here. In the same way we can support the few foundries that are left, we need to support papermakers and small suppliers out
          Message 4 of 20 , Jan 15, 2010
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            I think Gerald has a valid point here. In the same way we can support
            the few foundries that are left, we need to support papermakers and
            small suppliers out there or they'll go away. (Remember Aiko's in
            Chicago?!) Try something besides Lettra...

            Paper Studio carries a large variety of mouldmade sheets and Japanese
            paper plus makes handmade paper from natural and recycled fibers (http://www.paperstudio.com/
            )
            Arch Paper uses recycled cotton clothing to make their paper (http://www.archpaper.net/servlet/StoreFront
            )
            Cave Paper (http://www.cavepaper.com/)
            Twinrocker (http://www.twinrocker.com/)
            Atlantic Paper (http://www.atlanticpapers.com/) imports mouldmade
            papers from Germany, offers duplexed sheets, and a large variety of
            envelopes.

            . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
            Jessica Spring
            http://www.springtidepress.com




            On Jan 14, 2010, at 11:36 PM, bielerpr wrote:

            > Hi
            >
            > Well, the problem isn't just this, it's also because we, as
            > consumers continually fail to support the good products. Curtis
            > Mills didn't fail because they were bought out by the corporates,
            > they failed because we failed, we did not support their efforts to
            > produce fine quality commercial papers. Just like the type foundries
            > failed as we preferred to buy Monotype or Linotype because they were
            > cheaper. How many continual posts does one have to look at on Briar
            > Discussions to come to the realization that we letterpress folks are
            > a hopeless lot. Folks would rather make their own pathetic bases
            > than buy a precision Bunting or even a Boxcar base. DIY is King.
            > Cheaper is better, cheapest is best. Folks seriously consider the
            > plastic "Letterpress Machine" as an economically viable printing
            > press. Why take the easy out and point the finger at the usual
            > suspects? And somehow feel justified? We are responsible as well.
            > And we deserve this.
            >
            > Gerald
            > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
            >
            >
            > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@...>
            > wrote:
            >>
            >> My architect father (now long retired) used to rail against the MBA
            >> class ruining all that was worthwhile about American business
            >> decision making.
            >>
            >> No doubt the same crowd is determining whether these classic brands
            >> live or die.
            >> The ugly megacorporate consumption of small paper mills (and other
            >> manufacturers -- often by conglomerates with no historical interest
            >> in the industry they bought in to, let alone the brands) since the
            >> 1960s has littered the cultural landscape with the sucked dry
            >> corpses of once proud brands which had lasted decades or more, but
            >> weren't able to pull the margins that the bland "popular" brands
            >> could.
            >>
            >> Sadly, many decent paper options are just another casualty of this
            >> disgusting, and far from finished, economic disease.
            >>
            >> My two cents.
            >> Proud to be sick and tired of business as usual.
            >> Tax the corporate banking bastards back to the stone age, and build
            >> handmade paper mills for the unemployed to get back to work! $140
            >> billion in bonuses indeed. Sick. Sick. Sick.
            >>
            >> Capitalism has clearly failed, except, somehow -- surprise,
            >> surprise -- for the filthy rich. (and amazing how their apologists
            >> conveniently ignore the total meltdown in 2008, now that the Dow
            >> Jones has risen miraculously from the crypt)
            >>
            >> Time for a new approach.
            >>
            >> Apologies for the meta-economic theory, I know we were just talking
            >> about paper
            >>
            >> Not 'commercial' paper.
            >>
            >> ;-)
            >>
            >> PF
            >>
            >> On 14 Jan 2010, at 11:39 PM, Matt Kelsey wrote:
            >>
            >>> Whiting Paper Co. has Brockway paper and envelopes available with
            >>> deckled
            >>> edge. I haven't tried it yet and it isn't widely distributed as
            >>> far as I
            >>> know, but it is available through paper-papers.com, and I have had
            >>> good
            >>> response from them in the past for sample requests as well as for
            >>> filling
            >>> orders quickly. Whiting is a small specialty paper mill, from what
            >>> I have
            >>> read... perhaps they are more likely to support low volume
            >>> products like
            >>> this. But it's a shame to see similar papers disappear when they
            >>> were once
            >>> widely available. My Kelly Paper catalog from just last year lists
            >>> Teton
            >>> text, cover, and envelopes, stocked locally...
            >>>
            >>> Matt Kelsey
            >>
            >> Peter Fraterdeus
            >> Exquisite Letterpress from Slow Print Studios
            >> http://slowprint.com/
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
          • digitalletterpress
            Not sure where this information about Teton came from, but my supplier called the mill and they said that it was not being discontinued. Bradley Hutchinson
            Message 5 of 20 , Jan 15, 2010
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              Not sure where this information about Teton came from, but my supplier called the mill and they said that it was not being discontinued.

              Bradley Hutchinson
              letterpress.com
              1906 Miriam
              Austin, Texas 78722
            • typetom@aol.com
              Apparently my occasional purchase of appropriate papers for my small printing efforts has been adequate to absolve me from guilt or blame or despair! Gerald s
              Message 6 of 20 , Jan 15, 2010
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                Apparently my occasional purchase of appropriate papers for my small
                printing efforts has been adequate to absolve me from guilt or blame or despair!

                Gerald's eloquent rant notwithstanding, I don't quite feel I deserve credit
                or blame for the failures of capitalism. Monotype did not cause the
                failure of ATF. The collapse of "real" type foundries came from within (read Theo
                Rehak on ATF), as well as from changes in the market that were much larger
                than the purchasing power of any of us. Using a home-made exposure box, or
                various kinds of DIY bases, using cheaper methods to make letterpress
                printing viable - pathetic? I make the best I can of what is possible. Surely
                that's what those pathetic printers did who worked with wooden handpresses
                and inkballs.

                I'd rather pay tribute to Jim Rimmer, who invented his own ways to make
                type and beautiful books, than lament that we are a hopeless lot.
                Tom

                Tom Parson/ Now It's Up To You/ Denver Back-alley Type
                157 S Logan, Denver CO 80209
                (303) 777-8951 - home & letterpress printshop
                (720) 480-5358 - cranky cellphone
                _typetom@..._ (mailto:typetom@...)
                _www.froglok.com/typetom_ (http://www.froglok.com/typetom/) (way out of
                date website!)


                In a message dated 1/15/2010 10:52:22 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,
                bradley@... writes:

                Not sure where this information about Teton came from, but my supplier
                called the mill and they said that it was not being discontinued.

                Bradley Hutchinson
                letterpress.com
                1906 Miriam
                Austin, Texas 78722










                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Ed Inman
                This 2007 blog offers a little information on Teton: http://www.thepapermillstore.com/blog/2007/04/neenah-paper-announces-plans-for.html One graph states as
                Message 7 of 20 , Jan 15, 2010
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                  This 2007 blog offers a little information on Teton:
                  http://www.thepapermillstore.com/blog/2007/04/neenah-paper-announces-plans-for.html

                  One graph states as follows:
                  Neenah is contemplating how to position and how to move forward with; Crushed Leaf, Valley Forge, Parchment, Voice, EverGreen, Gainsborough and Teton. They state they will "extract the strengths moving forward" from these brands and position them appropriately.

                  What exactly that means I'm not sure. It doesn't say they are "discontinued," but neither did Neenah promise to "fully support" them as they did with some other former Fox River brands.

                  There is no longer any mention of or links to "Teton" as an active brand at neenahpaper.com. Nor is it any longer stocked by my local supplier.

                  If it is still being made I'd love to know who carries it at this point, in what weights/colors, and how it can be ordered.

                  thanks,
                  Ed

                  -----Original Message-----
                  >From: digitalletterpress

                  >Not sure where this information about Teton came from, but my supplier called the mill and they said that it was not being discontinued.
                  >Bradley Hutchinson
                  >letterpress.com
                  >1906 Miriam
                  >Austin, Texas 78722
                • Eric
                  ... True, I have purchased Teton announcement envelopes and parent sheets of cover stock in the last month through Kelly Paper. But there is no _current_
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jan 15, 2010
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                    --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "digitalletterpress" <bradley@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Not sure where this information about Teton came from, but my supplier called the mill and they said that it was not being discontinued.
                    >
                    True, I have purchased Teton announcement envelopes and parent sheets of cover stock in the last month through Kelly Paper. But there is no _current_ mention of Teton on the Neenah company website and it is not listed among their line of papers. Or perhaps the information is hidden behind another impenatrable layer of javascript.
                    As for the Pastelle rumor, a customer ordered some Pastelle cover from a local paper distributor and was told that it was going to be discontinued in the future, and whether specifically true or not, it is part of the same dismal trend. At the last local paper house the discontinued printing papers have been replaced with digital paper. Even many of the letterhead sheets are going to "digital finish" which takes most of the texture away.
                    --Eric Holub, SF
                  • Gene Pawlowski
                    ________________________________ From: Peter Fraterdeus To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com Sent: Fri, January 15, 2010 10:28:35 AM Subject: Re:
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jan 15, 2010
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                      ________________________________
                      From: Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@...>
                      To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Fri, January 15, 2010 10:28:35 AM
                      Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Fox River Teton

                      Lone Ranger: "Tonto, we're surrounded by Indians! It's looking Hopeless!"

                      Tonto: "What d'you mean 'WE' Kimosabe???

                      :-)

                      (Apologies for the dated, culturally insensitive references...)

                      On 15 Jan 2010, at 1:36 AM, bielerpr wrote:

                      > Hi
                      >
                      > Well, the problem isn't just this, it's also because we, as consumers continually fail to support the good products. Curtis Mills didn't fail because they were bought out by the corporates, they failed because we failed, we did not support their efforts to produce fine quality commercial papers. Just like the type foundries failed as we preferred to buy Monotype or Linotype because they were cheaper. How many continual posts does one have to look at on Briar Discussions to come to the realization that we letterpress folks are a hopeless lot. Folks would rather make their own pathetic bases than buy a precision Bunting or even a Boxcar base. DIY is King. Cheaper is better, cheapest is best. Folks seriously consider the plastic "Letterpress Machine" as an economically viable printing press. Why take the easy out and point the finger at the usual suspects? And somehow feel justified? We are responsible as well. And we deserve this.
                      >
                      > Gerald
                      > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com


                      Peter Fraterdeus
                      Exquisite letterpress takes time™
                      http://slowprint.com/

                      IdeasWords : Idea Swords
                      Communication Strategy
                      Semiotx.com @ideaswords

                      ------------------------------------

                      Yahoo! Groups Links



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