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Re: [PPLetterpress] Help with Paper Stock and Letterpressing! =(

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  • Edgar Weber
    Where are you? ________________________________ From: engrossersscript@aol.com To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed,
    Message 1 of 28 , Dec 9, 2009
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      Where are you?




      ________________________________
      From: "engrossersscript@..." <engrossersscript@...>
      To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wed, December 9, 2009 8:02:43 AM
      Subject: [PPLetterpress] Help with Paper Stock and Letterpressing! =(

       


      I am helping a dear friend of mine do her invitation. We want to do letterpress (though I dnt have one I am able to use the ones at the Printing Museum and also a good friend of mine has two that are run with motors. I have never done anything like this before and I should of thought about this before offering. I know I need a plate, she also wants something embossed on them and we will also do the envelopes... . can ANY ONE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE help me with this project or give me any ideas? I have asked a few of the member of the Museum and noone has returned my emails or calls.... =( I have lots of time the wedding is not till next year but I want to start working on this asap so I dnt rush it! Any ideas or comments please feel free and thank you all talented printers =)

      Leenah
      www.thevintagehand. com

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Scott Rubel
      What kinds of forces does it take to make a steel plate on a Bunting base move? Even with all the relational physics answers posted earlier, once the plate
      Message 2 of 28 , Dec 9, 2009
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        What kinds of forces does it take to make a steel plate on a Bunting
        base move? Even with all the relational physics answers posted earlier,
        once the plate gets over a few inches I can't imagine how it could move.

        --Scott

        Harold Kyle wrote:
        > OK I was confused by this thread, and talked with Matthew off-list.
        > Apparently he has a Bunting base, which is 0.858, as we do mention on our
        > website. That much is correct. I thought mistakenly he was referring to our
        > Deep Relief base. He is also apparently ordering 152SB steel backed plates
        > but I can't see how they would be thicker than 0.060. He's going to test
        > them with another measuring tool and report back.
        >
        > Sorry for the confusion!
        > Harold
        >
        > On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 10:34 AM, Harold Kyle <harold@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >> Matthew:
        >>
        >> Our records show that you purchased KF152, which measures 0.060 but ships
        >> with 0.004 film adhesive. This means the plate should measure 0.064 thick.
        >> Is your plate transparent or does it have a rigid metal back? Transparent
        >> means KF152.
        >>
        >> I couldn't find a base purchase under your name in our system, which I
        >> would need to get the exact measurements of your base. I would be astonished
        >> if we shipped a 0.8585" base, which is way out of spec. The actual thickness
        >> should be 0.0853 +/- 0.001. Can you share with me the serial number stamped
        >> on the side?
        >>
        >> I don't see reference to 0.858" as the base thickness on boxcarpress.com,
        >> but I do see this height mentioned incorrectly on some other websites. I'll
        >> write to them to clarify in order to avoid any future confusion. The correct
        >> height is 0.853".
        >>
        >> Thanks
        >> Harold
        >>
        >> On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 9:40 AM, matthew lamoureux <lamsland@...>wrote:
        >>
        >>
        >>> Next time I'm there I'm going to bring my table top micrometer. It's an
        >>> extremely precise dial caliper mounted on a stand. The thing that's
        >>> bothering me is we
        >>> ordered the base ground to Boxcar's specs listed on their site, .858".
        >>> The hand held dial caliper reads .8585". We measured the base and plate
        >>> together while the base was locked in the chase, which was a bit tricky, but
        >>> checked it a couple of times and got .922". Without actually measuring the
        >>> plate alone that would mean the plate was .0635" - .064". Why would the
        >>> plates be .004" higher than what's listed on the site for 152SB?
        >>>
        >>> ________________________________
        >>>
        >>> A thinner plate ia indicated; If you are using a 152 go to a 145.
        >>> --Eric Holub, SF
        >>>
        >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>
        >>
        >> --
        >> ---
        >> Boxcar Press
        >> 501 W. Fayette St. #222
        >> Syracuse, NY 13204
        >> www.boxcarpress.com
        >>
        >>
      • matthew lamoureux
        Harold, I just found out the two jobs I ve been talking about might already be at boxcar for plating. They would be coming from The R. Frank Printing Company,
        Message 3 of 28 , Dec 9, 2009
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          Harold,
          I just found out the two jobs I've been talking about might already be at boxcar for plating. They would be coming from The R. Frank Printing Company, his email is richard.frank@... and they are being made/paid for by Wild BIll in Middletown Connecticut. I don't know what they both are but one I'm sure is a pink and black poster for wood stock. It has a guitar with a bird sitting on it.

          If these aren't already made please hold off until I can get this figured out. If they are made don't sweat it I'll look into pinning the plates.

          Matthew "LAMMY" Lamoureux
          Full Metal Press - Operis servo a specialis nundinae


          Where the press is free and every man able to read, all is safe.
          Thomas Jefferson


          When Benjamin Franklin exited the Constitutional Convention, he was asked by a woman, "Sir, what have you given us?" He replied, "A Republic, Ma'am, if you can keep it".



          ----- Original Message ----
          From: Harold Kyle <harold@...>
          To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wed, December 9, 2009 12:58:02 PM
          Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Plate walking

          OK I was confused by this thread, and talked with Matthew off-list.
          Apparently he has a Bunting base, which is 0.858, as we do mention on our
          website. That much is correct. I thought mistakenly he was referring to our
          Deep Relief base. He is also apparently ordering 152SB steel backed plates
          but I can't see how they would be thicker than 0.060. He's going to test
          them with another measuring tool and report back.

          Sorry for the confusion!
          Harold

          On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 10:34 AM, Harold Kyle <harold@...> wrote:

          > Matthew:
          >
          > Our records show that you purchased KF152, which measures 0.060 but ships
          > with 0.004 film adhesive. This means the plate should measure 0.064 thick.
          > Is your plate transparent or does it have a rigid metal back? Transparent
          > means KF152.
          >
          > I couldn't find a base purchase under your name in our system, which I
          > would need to get the exact measurements of your base. I would be astonished
          > if we shipped a 0.8585" base, which is way out of spec. The actual thickness
          > should be 0.0853 +/- 0.001. Can you share with me the serial number stamped
          > on the side?
          >
          > I don't see reference to 0.858" as the base thickness on boxcarpress.com,
          > but I do see this height mentioned incorrectly on some other websites. I'll
          > write to them to clarify in order to avoid any future confusion. The correct
          > height is 0.853".
          >
          > Thanks
          > Harold
          >
          > On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 9:40 AM, matthew lamoureux <lamsland@...>wrote:
          >
          >>
          >>
          >> Next time I'm there I'm going to bring my table top micrometer. It's an
          >> extremely precise dial caliper mounted on a stand. The thing that's
          >> bothering me is we
          >> ordered the base ground to Boxcar's specs listed on their site, .858".
          >> The hand held dial caliper reads .8585". We measured the base and plate
          >> together while the base was locked in the chase, which was a bit tricky, but
          >> checked it a couple of times and got .922". Without actually measuring the
          >> plate alone that would mean the plate was .0635" - .064". Why would the
          >> plates be .004" higher than what's listed on the site for 152SB?
          >>
          >> ________________________________
          >>
          >> A thinner plate ia indicated; If you are using a 152 go to a 145.
          >> --Eric Holub, SF
          >>
          >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          > --
          > ---
          > Boxcar Press
          > 501 W. Fayette St. #222
          > Syracuse, NY 13204
          > www.boxcarpress.com
          >



          --
          ---
          Boxcar Press
          501 W. Fayette St. #222
          Syracuse, NY 13204
          www.boxcarpress.com


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



          ------------------------------------

          Yahoo! Groups Links
        • engrossersscript@aol.com
          I am in Houston, Tx =( ... From: Edgar Weber To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:32 pm Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress]
          Message 4 of 28 , Dec 9, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            I am in Houston, Tx =(






            -----Original Message-----
            From: Edgar Weber <elweber@...>
            To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:32 pm
            Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Help with Paper Stock and Letterpressing! =(




            Where are you?

            ________________________________
            From: "engrossersscript@..." <engrossersscript@...>
            To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wed, December 9, 2009 8:02:43 AM
            Subject: [PPLetterpress] Help with Paper Stock and Letterpressing! =(



            I am helping a dear friend of mine do her invitation. We want to do letterpress (though I dnt have one I am able to use the ones at the Printing Museum and also a good friend of mine has two that are run with motors. I have never done anything like this before and I should of thought about this before offering. I know I need a plate, she also wants something embossed on them and we will also do the envelopes... . can ANY ONE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE help me with this project or give me any ideas? I have asked a few of the member of the Museum and noone has returned my emails or calls.... =( I have lots of time the wedding is not till next year but I want to start working on this asap so I dnt rush it! Any ideas or comments please feel free and thank you all talented printers =)

            Leenah
            www.thevintagehand. com

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Peter Fraterdeus
            Hi Leenah Don t know what the Museum offers, but it sounds to me like you should consider taking a couple of classes to figure out what you ve gotten yourself
            Message 5 of 28 , Dec 9, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              Hi Leenah

              Don't know what the Museum offers, but it sounds to me like you should
              consider taking a couple of classes to figure out what you've gotten
              yourself into. Your enthusiasm is commendable, but unfortunately, it
              takes a good bit more than that to be a printer. :-)

              Embossing requires two 'plates' -- dies, really, which have to be
              perfectly matched and registered.
              It's possible (see John Henry's demos here and there) to make the
              'positive' die with a fast setting epoxy, but again, requires a good
              bit of trial and error, no doubt.

              To ask members of the Museum to volunteer to "help", which means
              essentially taking you on as an apprentice, might just possibly be a
              bit too much to ask... which may perhaps be why you're not getting a
              lot of response...

              There's an enormous amount of very good information available online,
              including the archives of this list, briarpress.org, etc etc etc. Many
              of us began without any instruction at all, except that provided by
              the laws of physics, common sense, and the odd golden nugget provided
              by those who rarely repeat themselves...

              The first 'rule' of asking for help is to do your homework, and ask
              specific, well-considered questions!
              (That's true of anything, whether letterpress, web design, rocket
              science, or quantum theory!)

              So, perhaps either take some classes, or get ready to pay somebody to
              do the printing, and ask nicely if you can watch while they do it!

              Good luck!

              :-)

              PF

              PS, finally, "Letterpress" is a noun, there's a verb for what it does,
              which is "Printing" ;-)



              On 9 Dec 2009, at 3:39 PM, engrossersscript@... wrote:
              >
              > From: "engrossersscript@..." <engrossersscript@...>
              > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Wed, December 9, 2009 8:02:43 AM
              > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Help with Paper Stock and Letterpressing! =(
              >
              >
              >
              > I am helping a dear friend of mine do her invitation. We want to do
              > letterpress (though I dnt have one I am able to use the ones at the
              > Printing Museum and also a good friend of mine has two that are run
              > with motors. I have never done anything like this before and I
              > should of thought about this before offering. I know I need a plate,
              > she also wants something embossed on them and we will also do the
              > envelopes... . can ANY ONE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE help me with this
              > project or give me any ideas? I have asked a few of the member of
              > the Museum and noone has returned my emails or calls.... =( I have
              > lots of time the wedding is not till next year but I want to start
              > working on this asap so I dnt rush it! Any ideas or comments please
              > feel free and thank you all talented printers =)
              >
              > Leenah
              > www.thevintagehand. com

              Peter Fraterdeus
              Exquisite Letterpress from Slow Print Studios
              http://slowprint.com/
            • Harold Kyle
              I should mention the plates can move out of register on Vandercooks as well. Cylinder presses can move steel backed plates out of register during deep
              Message 6 of 28 , Dec 9, 2009
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                I should mention the plates can move out of register on Vandercooks as well.
                Cylinder presses can move steel backed plates out of register during deep
                impression printing. The problem is that magnetic bases hold the plates down
                but don't resist shearing well. This was the genesis for our Boxcar Base and
                plastic backed plates in the first place ten years ago. Since many printers
                resort to adhesives to hold their plates in place (even on Bunting Bases),
                we figured we could just do away with the magnet and use an adhesive that
                works--one that resists shearing. We run our plastic backed plates on a
                Heidelberg Cylinder (long multi-color runs) and on Vandercooks and have
                never had this problem.

                I hope this helps,
                Harold


                On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Scott Rubel <scott@...> wrote:

                >
                >
                > What kinds of forces does it take to make a steel plate on a Bunting
                > base move? Even with all the relational physics answers posted earlier,
                > once the plate gets over a few inches I can't imagine how it could move.
                >
                > --Scott
                >
                >
                > Harold Kyle wrote:
                > > OK I was confused by this thread, and talked with Matthew off-list.
                > > Apparently he has a Bunting base, which is 0.858, as we do mention on our
                > > website. That much is correct. I thought mistakenly he was referring to
                > our
                > > Deep Relief base. He is also apparently ordering 152SB steel backed
                > plates
                > > but I can't see how they would be thicker than 0.060. He's going to test
                > > them with another measuring tool and report back.
                > >
                > > Sorry for the confusion!
                > > Harold
                > >
                > > On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 10:34 AM, Harold Kyle <harold@...<harold%40boxcarpress.com>>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > >> Matthew:
                > >>
                > >> Our records show that you purchased KF152, which measures 0.060 but
                > ships
                > >> with 0.004 film adhesive. This means the plate should measure 0.064
                > thick.
                > >> Is your plate transparent or does it have a rigid metal back?
                > Transparent
                > >> means KF152.
                > >>
                > >> I couldn't find a base purchase under your name in our system, which I
                > >> would need to get the exact measurements of your base. I would be
                > astonished
                > >> if we shipped a 0.8585" base, which is way out of spec. The actual
                > thickness
                > >> should be 0.0853 +/- 0.001. Can you share with me the serial number
                > stamped
                > >> on the side?
                > >>
                > >> I don't see reference to 0.858" as the base thickness on
                > boxcarpress.com,
                > >> but I do see this height mentioned incorrectly on some other websites.
                > I'll
                > >> write to them to clarify in order to avoid any future confusion. The
                > correct
                > >> height is 0.853".
                > >>
                > >> Thanks
                > >> Harold
                > >>
                > >> On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 9:40 AM, matthew lamoureux <lamsland@...<lamsland%40yahoo.com>
                > >wrote:
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>> Next time I'm there I'm going to bring my table top micrometer. It's an
                > >>> extremely precise dial caliper mounted on a stand. The thing that's
                > >>> bothering me is we
                > >>> ordered the base ground to Boxcar's specs listed on their site, .858".
                > >>> The hand held dial caliper reads .8585". We measured the base and plate
                > >>> together while the base was locked in the chase, which was a bit
                > tricky, but
                > >>> checked it a couple of times and got .922". Without actually measuring
                > the
                > >>> plate alone that would mean the plate was .0635" - .064". Why would the
                > >>> plates be .004" higher than what's listed on the site for 152SB?
                > >>>
                > >>> ________________________________
                > >>>
                > >>> A thinner plate ia indicated; If you are using a 152 go to a 145.
                > >>> --Eric Holub, SF
                > >>>
                > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>
                > >> --
                >
                > >> ---
                > >> Boxcar Press
                > >> 501 W. Fayette St. #222
                > >> Syracuse, NY 13204
                > >> www.boxcarpress.com
                > >>
                > >>
                >
                >



                --
                ---
                Boxcar Press
                501 W. Fayette St. #222
                Syracuse, NY 13204
                www.boxcarpress.com


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Ph.D.
                A couple of years ago, one of my students wanted to try embossing. We had a 1/4-inch copper die made at Owosso, then we used auto body filler (Bondo) to make a
                Message 7 of 28 , Dec 10, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  A couple of years ago, one of my students wanted to try
                  embossing. We had a 1/4-inch copper die made at Owosso,
                  then we used auto body filler (Bondo) to make a counter
                  die. Everything worked the first time, and the embosssing
                  looked great.

                  --Ph. D.


                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Peter Fraterdeus
                  To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 6:39 PM
                  Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Help with Paper Stock and Letterpressing! =(


                  Embossing requires two 'plates' -- dies, really, which have to be
                  perfectly matched and registered.
                  It's possible (see John Henry's demos here and there) to make the
                  'positive' die with a fast setting epoxy, but again, requires a good
                  bit of trial and error, no doubt.




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • engrossersscript@aol.com
                  Thanks Peter for the kind email. English is my second language so thanks for the lesson as well. Some people have been to help me through this group. Yes u are
                  Message 8 of 28 , Dec 10, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Thanks Peter for the kind email. English is my second language so thanks for the lesson as well. Some people have been to help me through this group. Yes u are right perhaps it was too much for the members to ask for help.

                    Leenah
                    Houston, Tx



                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@...>
                    To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:39 pm
                    Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Help with Paper Stock and Letterpressing! =(




                    Hi Leenah

                    Don't know what the Museum offers, but it sounds to me like you should
                    consider taking a couple of classes to figure out what you've gotten
                    yourself into. Your enthusiasm is commendable, but unfortunately, it
                    takes a good bit more than that to be a printer. :-)

                    Embossing requires two 'plates' -- dies, really, which have to be
                    perfectly matched and registered.
                    It's possible (see John Henry's demos here and there) to make the
                    'positive' die with a fast setting epoxy, but again, requires a good
                    bit of trial and error, no doubt.

                    To ask members of the Museum to volunteer to "help", which means
                    essentially taking you on as an apprentice, might just possibly be a
                    bit too much to ask... which may perhaps be why you're not getting a
                    lot of response...

                    There's an enormous amount of very good information available online,
                    including the archives of this list, briarpress.org, etc etc etc. Many
                    of us began without any instruction at all, except that provided by
                    the laws of physics, common sense, and the odd golden nugget provided
                    by those who rarely repeat themselves...

                    The first 'rule' of asking for help is to do your homework, and ask
                    specific, well-considered questions!
                    (That's true of anything, whether letterpress, web design, rocket
                    science, or quantum theory!)

                    So, perhaps either take some classes, or get ready to pay somebody to
                    do the printing, and ask nicely if you can watch while they do it!

                    Good luck!

                    :-)

                    PF

                    PS, finally, "Letterpress" is a noun, there's a verb for what it does,
                    which is "Printing" ;-)

                    On 9 Dec 2009, at 3:39 PM, engrossersscript@... wrote:
                    >
                    > From: "engrossersscript@..." <engrossersscript@...>
                    > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Wed, December 9, 2009 8:02:43 AM
                    > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Help with Paper Stock and Letterpressing! =(
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I am helping a dear friend of mine do her invitation. We want to do
                    > letterpress (though I dnt have one I am able to use the ones at the
                    > Printing Museum and also a good friend of mine has two that are run
                    > with motors. I have never done anything like this before and I
                    > should of thought about this before offering. I know I need a plate,
                    > she also wants something embossed on them and we will also do the
                    > envelopes... . can ANY ONE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE help me with this
                    > project or give me any ideas? I have asked a few of the member of
                    > the Museum and noone has returned my emails or calls.... =( I have
                    > lots of time the wedding is not till next year but I want to start
                    > working on this asap so I dnt rush it! Any ideas or comments please
                    > feel free and thank you all talented printers =)
                    >
                    > Leenah
                    > www.thevintagehand. com

                    Peter Fraterdeus
                    Exquisite Letterpress from Slow Print Studios
                    http://slowprint.com/







                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • matthew lamoureux
                    Here s photos of the caliper measurements and repacking results. It s just the first few photos.
                    Message 9 of 28 , Jan 2, 2010
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Here's photos of the caliper measurements and repacking results. It's just the first few photos.

                      http://s211.photobucket.com/albums/bb91/Lammys_album/Letterpress/

                      The basic conclusion I've come to is based on the amount of packing I need to get a good solid print the plates and the bases are just fine. I'm thinking I can't put enough pressure on the plate and base together to get a good reading, otherwise I have no idea why it reads so high. With enough pressure I got the bases and plates to read .858 and .060 respectively. The final reading for the packing and stock was .048, just .001 over what it should be. Even at the correct height of everything I still have the issue with the plate sliding on the base. Taping all four sides of the plate to the chase/ base/ furniture stopped this.

                      Matthew "LAMMY" Lamoureux
                      Full Metal Press - Operis servo a specialis nundinae


                      Where the press is free and every man able to read, all is safe.
                      Thomas Jefferson


                      When Benjamin Franklin exited the Constitutional Convention, he was asked by a woman, "Sir, what have you given us?" He replied, "A Republic, Ma'am, if you can keep it".
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