Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Plate walking

Expand Messages
  • Eric
    ... That piece of aluminum is where you can drill and install mounting/registration pins. Make them the same height as the block and they can be used slightly
    Message 1 of 28 , Dec 7, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, matthew lamoureux <lamsland@...> wrote:
      >
      > . . . We had a piece of aluminum milled to the same height as the bases to make up where the plate overhangs the base.
      >
      That piece of aluminum is where you can drill and install mounting/registration pins. Make them the same height as the block and they can be used slightly up for plate mounting or tapped down level. No creep then.
      --Eric Holub, SF
    • matthew lamoureux
      ... I used sheets of packing totaling .004 on the bed under the roller gauge so I could adjust the rollers .004 higher than .918. Basically I lifted the roller
      Message 2 of 28 , Dec 7, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        >If your base and plate height together measure .922, which is over type
        >high, I'm not sure why you would then add a .004 underlay. Or am I
        >missing something here?

        I used sheets of packing totaling .004 on the bed under the roller gauge so I could adjust the rollers .004 higher than .918. Basically I lifted the roller gauge up by .004 to give me a gauge height of .922 to set the rollers by. I removed the sheets of packing after the rollers were set.

        >In general practice, adjustment to roller height
        >or cylinder packing is not necessarily going to compensate if your form
        >is not at .918.

        That's one of the really nice things about they cylinder press. The cylinder runs on bearers that keep it .918 from the bed, but the main portion of the cylinder is under cut and needs to be packed, this is where the .047 number comes from in the manual. Packing the cylinder with .047 should bring it up to the same height as the bearers (I think) and make it .918 from the bed. As such you can under pack or over pack to adjust for low or tall type/forms as well as thinner and thicker stocks.

        Right now it's packed at .038 and I get a good solid print out of the largest type and hardly any impression into the sheet. At .036 the large type was showing the paper though it from the finish in the sheet. .002 is the thinnest sheet of packing I have. I supposed I could have taken out another .003 and put in two .002 sheets. . . but I don't think the walking could be the result of .001" of packing?

        >You don't mention what type of plate or base you are
        >using but it may be a case of too much "sheer pressure" (from
        >rollers/cylinder packing) that is causing the plate to travel.
        >Why did your sales rep sell you this plate/base combination?

        The rep I had from Bunting didn't know anything about plate heights, types or combinations. He only asked what height I wanted the bases milled to. Since I didn't know which plates were being ordered from Boxcar (they're sub'ing out to another designer for that) I went with the lowest recommended base height on Boxcar's site figuring I'd rather have to over pack the cylinder than find I can't under pack it enough. The bases actually read more like .8585 we didn't read how high the plates actually were, just the total of the two. The other thing I just though of is we didn't check the height of the bed to the cylinder, but since we removed enough packing to hinder the print quality I'd imagine we're OK there.
      • matthew lamoureux
        Thanks Eric and everyone else. I m going to call the designer that s been doing the art and ordering the plates and talk to them about them. Hopefully these
        Message 3 of 28 , Dec 7, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Thanks Eric and everyone else.

          I'm going to call the designer that's been doing the art and ordering the plates and talk to them about them. Hopefully these ones coming up haven't been ordered yet.

          I'll keep the idea of pins in that blockin mind.

          Matthew "LAMMY" Lamoureux
          Full Metal Press - Operis servo a specialis nundinae


          Where the press is free and every man able to read, all is safe.
          Thomas Jefferson


          When Benjamin Franklin exited the Constitutional Convention, he was asked by a woman, "Sir, what have you given us?" He replied, "A Republic, Ma'am, if you can keep it".




          ________________________________
          From: Eric <Megalonyx@...>
          To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Mon, December 7, 2009 6:49:34 PM
          Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Plate walking




          --- In PPLetterpress@ yahoogroups. com, matthew lamoureux <lamsland@.. .> wrote:
          >
          > . . . We had a piece of aluminum milled to the same height as the bases to make up where the plate overhangs the base.
          >
          That piece of aluminum is where you can drill and install mounting/registrati on pins. Make them the same height as the block and they can be used slightly up for plate mounting or tapped down level. No creep then.
          --Eric Holub, SF







          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Eric
          ... Note that the .047 (1.2mm, 3/64 ) includes the sheet to be printed. They made a small gauge to determine maximium packing/stock quickly. To quote the
          Message 4 of 28 , Dec 7, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, matthew lamoureux <lamsland@...> wrote:

            > That's one of the really nice things about they cylinder press. The cylinder runs on bearers that keep it .918 from the bed, but the main portion of the cylinder is under cut and needs to be packed, this is where the .047 number comes from in the manual. Packing the cylinder with .047 should bring it up to the same height as the bearers (I think) and make it .918 from the bed. As such you can under pack or over pack to adjust for low or tall type/forms as well as thinner and thicker stocks. >

            Note that the .047" (1.2mm, 3/64") includes the sheet to be printed. They made a small gauge to determine maximium packing/stock quickly.

            To quote the manual, in the section "Slur-caused by High or Low Cuts (Blocks)":
            "If the cuts are not of the proper height, they are not in corrrect level with the cylinder radius. The pressman compensates for this by under- or over-packing the cylinder. This affects the speed ratio of the cylinder to the type bed and the halftone dots are elongated or pear-shaped, pointing to either the gripper or the tail end of the sheet, depending on whether the cut (block) is too high or too low. "
            The slur described is the effect of slipping between surface of form and surface of paper because of the differing speeds. My assumption here is that the same slippage can affect plate travel in magnetic mounting, but I could be wrong.

            (Another thing, not all Heidelberg cylinders are .918" machines, just the Anglo-American export models which usually have English instuction labels. I have worked on a German-market .928" machine and on it forms had to be underlaid with 10-mil film.)
            --Eric Holub, SF
          • Eric
            ... Note that the .047 (1.2mm, 3/64 ) includes the sheet to be printed. They made a small gauge to determine maximium packing/stock quickly. To quote the
            Message 5 of 28 , Dec 7, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, matthew lamoureux <lamsland@...> wrote:

              > That's one of the really nice things about they cylinder press. The cylinder runs on bearers that keep it .918 from the bed, but the main portion of the cylinder is under cut and needs to be packed, this is where the .047 number comes from in the manual. Packing the cylinder with .047 should bring it up to the same height as the bearers (I think) and make it .918 from the bed. As such you can under pack or over pack to adjust for low or tall type/forms as well as thinner and thicker stocks. >

              Note that the .047" (1.2mm, 3/64") includes the sheet to be printed. They made a small gauge to determine maximium packing/stock quickly.

              To quote the manual, in the section "Slur-caused by High or Low Cuts (Blocks)":
              "If the cuts are not of the proper height, they are not in corrrect level with the cylinder radius. The pressman compensates for this by under- or over-packing the cylinder. This affects the speed ratio of the cylinder to the type bed and the halftone dots are elongated or pear-shaped, pointing to either the gripper or the tail end of the sheet, depending on whether the cut (block) is too high or too low. "
              The slur described is the effect of slipping between surface of form and surface of paper because of the differing speeds. My assumption here is that the same slippage can affect plate travel in magnetic mounting, but I could be wrong.

              (Another thing, not all Heidelberg cylinders are .918" machines, just the Anglo-American export models which usually have English instuction labels. I have worked on a German-market .928" machine and on it forms had to be underlaid with 10-mil film.)
              --Eric Holub, SF
            • matthew lamoureux
              ... They made a small gauge to determine maximium packing/stock quickly. I have the gauge and use it to be sure the packing isn t to much. I ll have to grab a
              Message 6 of 28 , Dec 8, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                >Note that the .047" (1.2mm, 3/64") includes the sheet to be printed.
                They made a small gauge to determine >maximium packing/stock quickly.

                I have the gauge and use it to be sure the packing isn't to much. I'll have to grab a loop the next time I'm there and see if there is any slur in the half tone. The manual isn't very clear, at least from what I gathered, about if the total of .047 was to include the sheet being printed or was just for the packing. The samples in the back of the book all fit VERY tight into the packing gauge so I figured it'd didn't include the sheet. Knowing, though, that I'm printing a very heavy stock (20pt) I made sure to use only enough packing to get a good print with little impression into the sheet as possible.





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • matthew lamoureux
                Next time I m there I m going to bring my table top micrometer. It s an extremely precise dial caliper mounted on a stand. The thing that s bothering me is we
                Message 7 of 28 , Dec 9, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  Next time I'm there I'm going to bring my table top micrometer. It's an
                  extremely precise dial caliper mounted on a stand. The thing that's bothering me is we
                  ordered the base ground to Boxcar's specs listed on their site, .858".
                  The hand held dial caliper reads .8585". We measured the base and plate together while the base was locked in the chase, which was a bit tricky, but checked it a couple of times and got .922". Without actually measuring the plate alone that would mean the plate was .0635" - .064". Why would the plates be .004" higher than what's listed on the site for 152SB?



                  ________________________________


                  A thinner plate ia indicated; If you are using a 152 go to a 145.
                  --Eric Holub, SF




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Harold Kyle
                  Matthew: Our records show that you purchased KF152, which measures 0.060 but ships with 0.004 film adhesive. This means the plate should measure 0.064 thick.
                  Message 8 of 28 , Dec 9, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Matthew:

                    Our records show that you purchased KF152, which measures 0.060 but ships
                    with 0.004 film adhesive. This means the plate should measure 0.064 thick.
                    Is your plate transparent or does it have a rigid metal back? Transparent
                    means KF152.

                    I couldn't find a base purchase under your name in our system, which I would
                    need to get the exact measurements of your base. I would be astonished if we
                    shipped a 0.8585" base, which is way out of spec. The actual thickness
                    should be 0.0853 +/- 0.001. Can you share with me the serial number stamped
                    on the side?

                    I don't see reference to 0.858" as the base thickness on boxcarpress.com,
                    but I do see this height mentioned incorrectly on some other websites. I'll
                    write to them to clarify in order to avoid any future confusion. The correct
                    height is 0.853".

                    Thanks
                    Harold

                    On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 9:40 AM, matthew lamoureux <lamsland@...>wrote:

                    >
                    >
                    > Next time I'm there I'm going to bring my table top micrometer. It's an
                    > extremely precise dial caliper mounted on a stand. The thing that's
                    > bothering me is we
                    > ordered the base ground to Boxcar's specs listed on their site, .858".
                    > The hand held dial caliper reads .8585". We measured the base and plate
                    > together while the base was locked in the chase, which was a bit tricky, but
                    > checked it a couple of times and got .922". Without actually measuring the
                    > plate alone that would mean the plate was .0635" - .064". Why would the
                    > plates be .004" higher than what's listed on the site for 152SB?
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    >
                    > A thinner plate ia indicated; If you are using a 152 go to a 145.
                    > --Eric Holub, SF
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >



                    --
                    ---
                    Boxcar Press
                    501 W. Fayette St. #222
                    Syracuse, NY 13204
                    www.boxcarpress.com


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • engrossersscript@aol.com
                    I am helping a dear friend of mine do her invitation. We want to do letterpress (though I dnt have one I am able to use the ones at the Printing Museum and
                    Message 9 of 28 , Dec 9, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I am helping a dear friend of mine do her invitation. We want to do letterpress (though I dnt have one I am able to use the ones at the Printing Museum and also a good friend of mine has two that are run with motors. I have never done anything like this before and I should of thought about this before offering. I know I need a plate, she also wants something embossed on them and we will also do the envelopes.... can ANY ONE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE help me with this project or give me any ideas? I have asked a few of the member of the Museum and noone has returned my emails or calls.... =( I have lots of time the wedding is not till next year but I want to start working on this asap so I dnt rush it! Any ideas or comments please feel free and thank you all talented printers =)

                      Leenah
                      www.thevintagehand.com


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Harold Kyle
                      OK I was confused by this thread, and talked with Matthew off-list. Apparently he has a Bunting base, which is 0.858, as we do mention on our website. That
                      Message 10 of 28 , Dec 9, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment
                        OK I was confused by this thread, and talked with Matthew off-list.
                        Apparently he has a Bunting base, which is 0.858, as we do mention on our
                        website. That much is correct. I thought mistakenly he was referring to our
                        Deep Relief base. He is also apparently ordering 152SB steel backed plates
                        but I can't see how they would be thicker than 0.060. He's going to test
                        them with another measuring tool and report back.

                        Sorry for the confusion!
                        Harold

                        On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 10:34 AM, Harold Kyle <harold@...> wrote:

                        > Matthew:
                        >
                        > Our records show that you purchased KF152, which measures 0.060 but ships
                        > with 0.004 film adhesive. This means the plate should measure 0.064 thick.
                        > Is your plate transparent or does it have a rigid metal back? Transparent
                        > means KF152.
                        >
                        > I couldn't find a base purchase under your name in our system, which I
                        > would need to get the exact measurements of your base. I would be astonished
                        > if we shipped a 0.8585" base, which is way out of spec. The actual thickness
                        > should be 0.0853 +/- 0.001. Can you share with me the serial number stamped
                        > on the side?
                        >
                        > I don't see reference to 0.858" as the base thickness on boxcarpress.com,
                        > but I do see this height mentioned incorrectly on some other websites. I'll
                        > write to them to clarify in order to avoid any future confusion. The correct
                        > height is 0.853".
                        >
                        > Thanks
                        > Harold
                        >
                        > On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 9:40 AM, matthew lamoureux <lamsland@...>wrote:
                        >
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> Next time I'm there I'm going to bring my table top micrometer. It's an
                        >> extremely precise dial caliper mounted on a stand. The thing that's
                        >> bothering me is we
                        >> ordered the base ground to Boxcar's specs listed on their site, .858".
                        >> The hand held dial caliper reads .8585". We measured the base and plate
                        >> together while the base was locked in the chase, which was a bit tricky, but
                        >> checked it a couple of times and got .922". Without actually measuring the
                        >> plate alone that would mean the plate was .0635" - .064". Why would the
                        >> plates be .004" higher than what's listed on the site for 152SB?
                        >>
                        >> ________________________________
                        >>
                        >> A thinner plate ia indicated; If you are using a 152 go to a 145.
                        >> --Eric Holub, SF
                        >>
                        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --
                        > ---
                        > Boxcar Press
                        > 501 W. Fayette St. #222
                        > Syracuse, NY 13204
                        > www.boxcarpress.com
                        >



                        --
                        ---
                        Boxcar Press
                        501 W. Fayette St. #222
                        Syracuse, NY 13204
                        www.boxcarpress.com


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Edgar Weber
                        Where are you? ________________________________ From: engrossersscript@aol.com To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed,
                        Message 11 of 28 , Dec 9, 2009
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Where are you?




                          ________________________________
                          From: "engrossersscript@..." <engrossersscript@...>
                          To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wed, December 9, 2009 8:02:43 AM
                          Subject: [PPLetterpress] Help with Paper Stock and Letterpressing! =(

                           


                          I am helping a dear friend of mine do her invitation. We want to do letterpress (though I dnt have one I am able to use the ones at the Printing Museum and also a good friend of mine has two that are run with motors. I have never done anything like this before and I should of thought about this before offering. I know I need a plate, she also wants something embossed on them and we will also do the envelopes... . can ANY ONE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE help me with this project or give me any ideas? I have asked a few of the member of the Museum and noone has returned my emails or calls.... =( I have lots of time the wedding is not till next year but I want to start working on this asap so I dnt rush it! Any ideas or comments please feel free and thank you all talented printers =)

                          Leenah
                          www.thevintagehand. com

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Scott Rubel
                          What kinds of forces does it take to make a steel plate on a Bunting base move? Even with all the relational physics answers posted earlier, once the plate
                          Message 12 of 28 , Dec 9, 2009
                          • 0 Attachment
                            What kinds of forces does it take to make a steel plate on a Bunting
                            base move? Even with all the relational physics answers posted earlier,
                            once the plate gets over a few inches I can't imagine how it could move.

                            --Scott

                            Harold Kyle wrote:
                            > OK I was confused by this thread, and talked with Matthew off-list.
                            > Apparently he has a Bunting base, which is 0.858, as we do mention on our
                            > website. That much is correct. I thought mistakenly he was referring to our
                            > Deep Relief base. He is also apparently ordering 152SB steel backed plates
                            > but I can't see how they would be thicker than 0.060. He's going to test
                            > them with another measuring tool and report back.
                            >
                            > Sorry for the confusion!
                            > Harold
                            >
                            > On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 10:34 AM, Harold Kyle <harold@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            >> Matthew:
                            >>
                            >> Our records show that you purchased KF152, which measures 0.060 but ships
                            >> with 0.004 film adhesive. This means the plate should measure 0.064 thick.
                            >> Is your plate transparent or does it have a rigid metal back? Transparent
                            >> means KF152.
                            >>
                            >> I couldn't find a base purchase under your name in our system, which I
                            >> would need to get the exact measurements of your base. I would be astonished
                            >> if we shipped a 0.8585" base, which is way out of spec. The actual thickness
                            >> should be 0.0853 +/- 0.001. Can you share with me the serial number stamped
                            >> on the side?
                            >>
                            >> I don't see reference to 0.858" as the base thickness on boxcarpress.com,
                            >> but I do see this height mentioned incorrectly on some other websites. I'll
                            >> write to them to clarify in order to avoid any future confusion. The correct
                            >> height is 0.853".
                            >>
                            >> Thanks
                            >> Harold
                            >>
                            >> On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 9:40 AM, matthew lamoureux <lamsland@...>wrote:
                            >>
                            >>
                            >>> Next time I'm there I'm going to bring my table top micrometer. It's an
                            >>> extremely precise dial caliper mounted on a stand. The thing that's
                            >>> bothering me is we
                            >>> ordered the base ground to Boxcar's specs listed on their site, .858".
                            >>> The hand held dial caliper reads .8585". We measured the base and plate
                            >>> together while the base was locked in the chase, which was a bit tricky, but
                            >>> checked it a couple of times and got .922". Without actually measuring the
                            >>> plate alone that would mean the plate was .0635" - .064". Why would the
                            >>> plates be .004" higher than what's listed on the site for 152SB?
                            >>>
                            >>> ________________________________
                            >>>
                            >>> A thinner plate ia indicated; If you are using a 152 go to a 145.
                            >>> --Eric Holub, SF
                            >>>
                            >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>>
                            >>
                            >> --
                            >> ---
                            >> Boxcar Press
                            >> 501 W. Fayette St. #222
                            >> Syracuse, NY 13204
                            >> www.boxcarpress.com
                            >>
                            >>
                          • matthew lamoureux
                            Harold, I just found out the two jobs I ve been talking about might already be at boxcar for plating. They would be coming from The R. Frank Printing Company,
                            Message 13 of 28 , Dec 9, 2009
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Harold,
                              I just found out the two jobs I've been talking about might already be at boxcar for plating. They would be coming from The R. Frank Printing Company, his email is richard.frank@... and they are being made/paid for by Wild BIll in Middletown Connecticut. I don't know what they both are but one I'm sure is a pink and black poster for wood stock. It has a guitar with a bird sitting on it.

                              If these aren't already made please hold off until I can get this figured out. If they are made don't sweat it I'll look into pinning the plates.

                              Matthew "LAMMY" Lamoureux
                              Full Metal Press - Operis servo a specialis nundinae


                              Where the press is free and every man able to read, all is safe.
                              Thomas Jefferson


                              When Benjamin Franklin exited the Constitutional Convention, he was asked by a woman, "Sir, what have you given us?" He replied, "A Republic, Ma'am, if you can keep it".



                              ----- Original Message ----
                              From: Harold Kyle <harold@...>
                              To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Wed, December 9, 2009 12:58:02 PM
                              Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Plate walking

                              OK I was confused by this thread, and talked with Matthew off-list.
                              Apparently he has a Bunting base, which is 0.858, as we do mention on our
                              website. That much is correct. I thought mistakenly he was referring to our
                              Deep Relief base. He is also apparently ordering 152SB steel backed plates
                              but I can't see how they would be thicker than 0.060. He's going to test
                              them with another measuring tool and report back.

                              Sorry for the confusion!
                              Harold

                              On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 10:34 AM, Harold Kyle <harold@...> wrote:

                              > Matthew:
                              >
                              > Our records show that you purchased KF152, which measures 0.060 but ships
                              > with 0.004 film adhesive. This means the plate should measure 0.064 thick.
                              > Is your plate transparent or does it have a rigid metal back? Transparent
                              > means KF152.
                              >
                              > I couldn't find a base purchase under your name in our system, which I
                              > would need to get the exact measurements of your base. I would be astonished
                              > if we shipped a 0.8585" base, which is way out of spec. The actual thickness
                              > should be 0.0853 +/- 0.001. Can you share with me the serial number stamped
                              > on the side?
                              >
                              > I don't see reference to 0.858" as the base thickness on boxcarpress.com,
                              > but I do see this height mentioned incorrectly on some other websites. I'll
                              > write to them to clarify in order to avoid any future confusion. The correct
                              > height is 0.853".
                              >
                              > Thanks
                              > Harold
                              >
                              > On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 9:40 AM, matthew lamoureux <lamsland@...>wrote:
                              >
                              >>
                              >>
                              >> Next time I'm there I'm going to bring my table top micrometer. It's an
                              >> extremely precise dial caliper mounted on a stand. The thing that's
                              >> bothering me is we
                              >> ordered the base ground to Boxcar's specs listed on their site, .858".
                              >> The hand held dial caliper reads .8585". We measured the base and plate
                              >> together while the base was locked in the chase, which was a bit tricky, but
                              >> checked it a couple of times and got .922". Without actually measuring the
                              >> plate alone that would mean the plate was .0635" - .064". Why would the
                              >> plates be .004" higher than what's listed on the site for 152SB?
                              >>
                              >> ________________________________
                              >>
                              >> A thinner plate ia indicated; If you are using a 152 go to a 145.
                              >> --Eric Holub, SF
                              >>
                              >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >>
                              >>
                              >>
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --
                              > ---
                              > Boxcar Press
                              > 501 W. Fayette St. #222
                              > Syracuse, NY 13204
                              > www.boxcarpress.com
                              >



                              --
                              ---
                              Boxcar Press
                              501 W. Fayette St. #222
                              Syracuse, NY 13204
                              www.boxcarpress.com


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                              ------------------------------------

                              Yahoo! Groups Links
                            • engrossersscript@aol.com
                              I am in Houston, Tx =( ... From: Edgar Weber To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:32 pm Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress]
                              Message 14 of 28 , Dec 9, 2009
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I am in Houston, Tx =(






                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Edgar Weber <elweber@...>
                                To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Wed, Dec 9, 2009 1:32 pm
                                Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Help with Paper Stock and Letterpressing! =(




                                Where are you?

                                ________________________________
                                From: "engrossersscript@..." <engrossersscript@...>
                                To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Wed, December 9, 2009 8:02:43 AM
                                Subject: [PPLetterpress] Help with Paper Stock and Letterpressing! =(



                                I am helping a dear friend of mine do her invitation. We want to do letterpress (though I dnt have one I am able to use the ones at the Printing Museum and also a good friend of mine has two that are run with motors. I have never done anything like this before and I should of thought about this before offering. I know I need a plate, she also wants something embossed on them and we will also do the envelopes... . can ANY ONE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE help me with this project or give me any ideas? I have asked a few of the member of the Museum and noone has returned my emails or calls.... =( I have lots of time the wedding is not till next year but I want to start working on this asap so I dnt rush it! Any ideas or comments please feel free and thank you all talented printers =)

                                Leenah
                                www.thevintagehand. com

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Peter Fraterdeus
                                Hi Leenah Don t know what the Museum offers, but it sounds to me like you should consider taking a couple of classes to figure out what you ve gotten yourself
                                Message 15 of 28 , Dec 9, 2009
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hi Leenah

                                  Don't know what the Museum offers, but it sounds to me like you should
                                  consider taking a couple of classes to figure out what you've gotten
                                  yourself into. Your enthusiasm is commendable, but unfortunately, it
                                  takes a good bit more than that to be a printer. :-)

                                  Embossing requires two 'plates' -- dies, really, which have to be
                                  perfectly matched and registered.
                                  It's possible (see John Henry's demos here and there) to make the
                                  'positive' die with a fast setting epoxy, but again, requires a good
                                  bit of trial and error, no doubt.

                                  To ask members of the Museum to volunteer to "help", which means
                                  essentially taking you on as an apprentice, might just possibly be a
                                  bit too much to ask... which may perhaps be why you're not getting a
                                  lot of response...

                                  There's an enormous amount of very good information available online,
                                  including the archives of this list, briarpress.org, etc etc etc. Many
                                  of us began without any instruction at all, except that provided by
                                  the laws of physics, common sense, and the odd golden nugget provided
                                  by those who rarely repeat themselves...

                                  The first 'rule' of asking for help is to do your homework, and ask
                                  specific, well-considered questions!
                                  (That's true of anything, whether letterpress, web design, rocket
                                  science, or quantum theory!)

                                  So, perhaps either take some classes, or get ready to pay somebody to
                                  do the printing, and ask nicely if you can watch while they do it!

                                  Good luck!

                                  :-)

                                  PF

                                  PS, finally, "Letterpress" is a noun, there's a verb for what it does,
                                  which is "Printing" ;-)



                                  On 9 Dec 2009, at 3:39 PM, engrossersscript@... wrote:
                                  >
                                  > From: "engrossersscript@..." <engrossersscript@...>
                                  > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Wed, December 9, 2009 8:02:43 AM
                                  > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Help with Paper Stock and Letterpressing! =(
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > I am helping a dear friend of mine do her invitation. We want to do
                                  > letterpress (though I dnt have one I am able to use the ones at the
                                  > Printing Museum and also a good friend of mine has two that are run
                                  > with motors. I have never done anything like this before and I
                                  > should of thought about this before offering. I know I need a plate,
                                  > she also wants something embossed on them and we will also do the
                                  > envelopes... . can ANY ONE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE help me with this
                                  > project or give me any ideas? I have asked a few of the member of
                                  > the Museum and noone has returned my emails or calls.... =( I have
                                  > lots of time the wedding is not till next year but I want to start
                                  > working on this asap so I dnt rush it! Any ideas or comments please
                                  > feel free and thank you all talented printers =)
                                  >
                                  > Leenah
                                  > www.thevintagehand. com

                                  Peter Fraterdeus
                                  Exquisite Letterpress from Slow Print Studios
                                  http://slowprint.com/
                                • Harold Kyle
                                  I should mention the plates can move out of register on Vandercooks as well. Cylinder presses can move steel backed plates out of register during deep
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Dec 9, 2009
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I should mention the plates can move out of register on Vandercooks as well.
                                    Cylinder presses can move steel backed plates out of register during deep
                                    impression printing. The problem is that magnetic bases hold the plates down
                                    but don't resist shearing well. This was the genesis for our Boxcar Base and
                                    plastic backed plates in the first place ten years ago. Since many printers
                                    resort to adhesives to hold their plates in place (even on Bunting Bases),
                                    we figured we could just do away with the magnet and use an adhesive that
                                    works--one that resists shearing. We run our plastic backed plates on a
                                    Heidelberg Cylinder (long multi-color runs) and on Vandercooks and have
                                    never had this problem.

                                    I hope this helps,
                                    Harold


                                    On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Scott Rubel <scott@...> wrote:

                                    >
                                    >
                                    > What kinds of forces does it take to make a steel plate on a Bunting
                                    > base move? Even with all the relational physics answers posted earlier,
                                    > once the plate gets over a few inches I can't imagine how it could move.
                                    >
                                    > --Scott
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Harold Kyle wrote:
                                    > > OK I was confused by this thread, and talked with Matthew off-list.
                                    > > Apparently he has a Bunting base, which is 0.858, as we do mention on our
                                    > > website. That much is correct. I thought mistakenly he was referring to
                                    > our
                                    > > Deep Relief base. He is also apparently ordering 152SB steel backed
                                    > plates
                                    > > but I can't see how they would be thicker than 0.060. He's going to test
                                    > > them with another measuring tool and report back.
                                    > >
                                    > > Sorry for the confusion!
                                    > > Harold
                                    > >
                                    > > On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 10:34 AM, Harold Kyle <harold@...<harold%40boxcarpress.com>>
                                    > wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >> Matthew:
                                    > >>
                                    > >> Our records show that you purchased KF152, which measures 0.060 but
                                    > ships
                                    > >> with 0.004 film adhesive. This means the plate should measure 0.064
                                    > thick.
                                    > >> Is your plate transparent or does it have a rigid metal back?
                                    > Transparent
                                    > >> means KF152.
                                    > >>
                                    > >> I couldn't find a base purchase under your name in our system, which I
                                    > >> would need to get the exact measurements of your base. I would be
                                    > astonished
                                    > >> if we shipped a 0.8585" base, which is way out of spec. The actual
                                    > thickness
                                    > >> should be 0.0853 +/- 0.001. Can you share with me the serial number
                                    > stamped
                                    > >> on the side?
                                    > >>
                                    > >> I don't see reference to 0.858" as the base thickness on
                                    > boxcarpress.com,
                                    > >> but I do see this height mentioned incorrectly on some other websites.
                                    > I'll
                                    > >> write to them to clarify in order to avoid any future confusion. The
                                    > correct
                                    > >> height is 0.853".
                                    > >>
                                    > >> Thanks
                                    > >> Harold
                                    > >>
                                    > >> On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 9:40 AM, matthew lamoureux <lamsland@...<lamsland%40yahoo.com>
                                    > >wrote:
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    > >>> Next time I'm there I'm going to bring my table top micrometer. It's an
                                    > >>> extremely precise dial caliper mounted on a stand. The thing that's
                                    > >>> bothering me is we
                                    > >>> ordered the base ground to Boxcar's specs listed on their site, .858".
                                    > >>> The hand held dial caliper reads .8585". We measured the base and plate
                                    > >>> together while the base was locked in the chase, which was a bit
                                    > tricky, but
                                    > >>> checked it a couple of times and got .922". Without actually measuring
                                    > the
                                    > >>> plate alone that would mean the plate was .0635" - .064". Why would the
                                    > >>> plates be .004" higher than what's listed on the site for 152SB?
                                    > >>>
                                    > >>> ________________________________
                                    > >>>
                                    > >>> A thinner plate ia indicated; If you are using a 152 go to a 145.
                                    > >>> --Eric Holub, SF
                                    > >>>
                                    > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > >>>
                                    > >>>
                                    > >>>
                                    > >>>
                                    > >>
                                    > >> --
                                    >
                                    > >> ---
                                    > >> Boxcar Press
                                    > >> 501 W. Fayette St. #222
                                    > >> Syracuse, NY 13204
                                    > >> www.boxcarpress.com
                                    > >>
                                    > >>
                                    >
                                    >



                                    --
                                    ---
                                    Boxcar Press
                                    501 W. Fayette St. #222
                                    Syracuse, NY 13204
                                    www.boxcarpress.com


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Ph.D.
                                    A couple of years ago, one of my students wanted to try embossing. We had a 1/4-inch copper die made at Owosso, then we used auto body filler (Bondo) to make a
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Dec 10, 2009
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      A couple of years ago, one of my students wanted to try
                                      embossing. We had a 1/4-inch copper die made at Owosso,
                                      then we used auto body filler (Bondo) to make a counter
                                      die. Everything worked the first time, and the embosssing
                                      looked great.

                                      --Ph. D.


                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: Peter Fraterdeus
                                      To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 6:39 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Help with Paper Stock and Letterpressing! =(


                                      Embossing requires two 'plates' -- dies, really, which have to be
                                      perfectly matched and registered.
                                      It's possible (see John Henry's demos here and there) to make the
                                      'positive' die with a fast setting epoxy, but again, requires a good
                                      bit of trial and error, no doubt.




                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • engrossersscript@aol.com
                                      Thanks Peter for the kind email. English is my second language so thanks for the lesson as well. Some people have been to help me through this group. Yes u are
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Dec 10, 2009
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Thanks Peter for the kind email. English is my second language so thanks for the lesson as well. Some people have been to help me through this group. Yes u are right perhaps it was too much for the members to ask for help.

                                        Leenah
                                        Houston, Tx



                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@...>
                                        To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Wed, Dec 9, 2009 5:39 pm
                                        Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Help with Paper Stock and Letterpressing! =(




                                        Hi Leenah

                                        Don't know what the Museum offers, but it sounds to me like you should
                                        consider taking a couple of classes to figure out what you've gotten
                                        yourself into. Your enthusiasm is commendable, but unfortunately, it
                                        takes a good bit more than that to be a printer. :-)

                                        Embossing requires two 'plates' -- dies, really, which have to be
                                        perfectly matched and registered.
                                        It's possible (see John Henry's demos here and there) to make the
                                        'positive' die with a fast setting epoxy, but again, requires a good
                                        bit of trial and error, no doubt.

                                        To ask members of the Museum to volunteer to "help", which means
                                        essentially taking you on as an apprentice, might just possibly be a
                                        bit too much to ask... which may perhaps be why you're not getting a
                                        lot of response...

                                        There's an enormous amount of very good information available online,
                                        including the archives of this list, briarpress.org, etc etc etc. Many
                                        of us began without any instruction at all, except that provided by
                                        the laws of physics, common sense, and the odd golden nugget provided
                                        by those who rarely repeat themselves...

                                        The first 'rule' of asking for help is to do your homework, and ask
                                        specific, well-considered questions!
                                        (That's true of anything, whether letterpress, web design, rocket
                                        science, or quantum theory!)

                                        So, perhaps either take some classes, or get ready to pay somebody to
                                        do the printing, and ask nicely if you can watch while they do it!

                                        Good luck!

                                        :-)

                                        PF

                                        PS, finally, "Letterpress" is a noun, there's a verb for what it does,
                                        which is "Printing" ;-)

                                        On 9 Dec 2009, at 3:39 PM, engrossersscript@... wrote:
                                        >
                                        > From: "engrossersscript@..." <engrossersscript@...>
                                        > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Sent: Wed, December 9, 2009 8:02:43 AM
                                        > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Help with Paper Stock and Letterpressing! =(
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > I am helping a dear friend of mine do her invitation. We want to do
                                        > letterpress (though I dnt have one I am able to use the ones at the
                                        > Printing Museum and also a good friend of mine has two that are run
                                        > with motors. I have never done anything like this before and I
                                        > should of thought about this before offering. I know I need a plate,
                                        > she also wants something embossed on them and we will also do the
                                        > envelopes... . can ANY ONE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE help me with this
                                        > project or give me any ideas? I have asked a few of the member of
                                        > the Museum and noone has returned my emails or calls.... =( I have
                                        > lots of time the wedding is not till next year but I want to start
                                        > working on this asap so I dnt rush it! Any ideas or comments please
                                        > feel free and thank you all talented printers =)
                                        >
                                        > Leenah
                                        > www.thevintagehand. com

                                        Peter Fraterdeus
                                        Exquisite Letterpress from Slow Print Studios
                                        http://slowprint.com/







                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • matthew lamoureux
                                        Here s photos of the caliper measurements and repacking results. It s just the first few photos.
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Jan 2, 2010
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Here's photos of the caliper measurements and repacking results. It's just the first few photos.

                                          http://s211.photobucket.com/albums/bb91/Lammys_album/Letterpress/

                                          The basic conclusion I've come to is based on the amount of packing I need to get a good solid print the plates and the bases are just fine. I'm thinking I can't put enough pressure on the plate and base together to get a good reading, otherwise I have no idea why it reads so high. With enough pressure I got the bases and plates to read .858 and .060 respectively. The final reading for the packing and stock was .048, just .001 over what it should be. Even at the correct height of everything I still have the issue with the plate sliding on the base. Taping all four sides of the plate to the chase/ base/ furniture stopped this.

                                          Matthew "LAMMY" Lamoureux
                                          Full Metal Press - Operis servo a specialis nundinae


                                          Where the press is free and every man able to read, all is safe.
                                          Thomas Jefferson


                                          When Benjamin Franklin exited the Constitutional Convention, he was asked by a woman, "Sir, what have you given us?" He replied, "A Republic, Ma'am, if you can keep it".
                                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.