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Re: Dismantling a Windmill for moving

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  • Arthur
    A pleasurable activity?..............right............... Is your home shop in a basement????????? I highly doubt it. If it was all level ground - then yes no
    Message 1 of 23 , Nov 4, 2009
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      A pleasurable activity?..............right...............

      Is your home shop in a basement????????? I highly doubt it.

      If it was all level ground - then yes no problem, it could be sort of pleasurable. I have pallet jacks, hydraulic jacks, a come along and even a pallet lifter - but how do I get it up 7 concrete stairs!!!
      So far the highest quote is $8000.00 !!!
      Even after contacting Heidelberg to dismantle it, I am still not convinced that they are even comfortable with it.
      It's a real shame to be honest...... not sure what to do.





      --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, speedgray@... wrote:
      >
      > In my shop at home I have a Miehle Vertical, a Windmill, two C-4
      > Intertypes, two Ludlow machines, a 10x15 C&P and a 14 x 22 C&P, plus two Challenge
      > 23" cutters. All accumulated over the past seven years or so. I moved all of
      > this equipment myself. All you need is a pallet jack and a heavy duty
      > utility trailer. Plus, moving equipment (rigging) is a pleasurable activity if
      > done safely.
      >
      > Speed Gray
      > Grad rapids, MI
      >
      >
      > In a message dated 11/4/2009 4:42:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
      > peterf@... writes:
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > On 4 Nov 2009, at 3:37 PM, Harold Kyle wrote:
      >
      > > The best you can do is remove the flywheel, which will then allow
      > > you to
      > > remove the "table" on the front which holds the paper feed and
      > > delivery
      > > sections. These parts are not exactly easy to remove but they are
      > > possible.
      > > You're still left with two very heavy castings which are not
      > > suitable for
      > > carrying. I can describe the process required for this if you'd
      > > like, and it
      > > should print fine afterwards because everything's pinned in place.
      > > Incidentally, I support a constitutional amendment to prohibit
      > > presses from
      > > basements.
      >
      > That would have to be the subterranean rider on the First Amendment, eh?
      >
      > Or a prohibition on Underground Lit?
      >
      > ;-)
      >
      > P
      >
      > >
      > > Hope this helps,
      > > Harold
      > >
      > > --
      > > ---
      > > Boxcar Press
      > > 501 W. Fayette St. #222
      > > Syracuse, NY 13204
      > > www.boxcarpress.
      > >
      >
      > Peter Fraterdeus
      > Exquisite Letterpress from Slow Print Studios
      > _http://slowprint.http_ (http://slowprint.com/)
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • jason@greenboathouse.com
      I was working on a 14.5x22 beast earlier this summer, and I m currently working on a 10x15 - believe me, the former makes the latter look and feel like a toy.
      Message 2 of 23 , Nov 4, 2009
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        I was working on a 14.5x22 beast earlier this summer, and I'm currently working on a 10x15 - believe me, the former makes the latter look and feel like a toy. Seems to me that without too much trouble you can get the ink disk, etc., the platen, the flywheel & shaft, and other smaller bits off, leaving you with the main hulk of the press. At that point it doesn't seem too terrible to line your stairs with some 1" plywood, load and strap the press onto a palet-jack, and hoist it up your stairs. The trick, of course, being that you'll need something like a tank to hook your come-along into.

        While I've heard time and again of the horrors of dismantling C&Ps, and while I certainly wouldn't advise anyone to do so unles they're comfortable with the basic engineering, the re-assembly, in my experience, is just a matter of careful planning, patient and focused work, and a willingness to expect a good challenge or 10 along the way. Nothing's impossible, and a sense of adventure tends to carry the burden half the distance.

        In the past 6 months I've found, partially dismantled, moved, and restored a 14.5x22 C&P Oldstyle, a 10x15 Newstyle, an 8x12 Westman & Baker, a 30" C&P cutter, a Challenge proof press, 3 cabinets of type, and all the bits & pieces. Most of this was heaved into a U-Haul on a palet-jack (up that flimsy loading ramp that comes with the truck). The big C&P went on a tilt-flat-deck with a winch. Most of it had to come across a bumpy and soft yard, and up and over an 8-inch deck. All good fun.

        It really is, I think, the attitude that dictates the difficulty. Like my old man always said, no pain, no gain.

        Jason
        Greenboathouse Press



        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Arthur
        To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 6:29 PM
        Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Dismantling a Windmill for moving



        A pleasurable activity?..............right...............

        Is your home shop in a basement????????? I highly doubt it.

        If it was all level ground - then yes no problem, it could be sort of pleasurable. I have pallet jacks, hydraulic jacks, a come along and even a pallet lifter - but how do I get it up 7 concrete stairs!!!
        So far the highest quote is $8000.00 !!!
        Even after contacting Heidelberg to dismantle it, I am still not convinced that they are even comfortable with it.
        It's a real shame to be honest...... not sure what to do.

        --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, speedgray@... wrote:
        >
        > In my shop at home I have a Miehle Vertical, a Windmill, two C-4
        > Intertypes, two Ludlow machines, a 10x15 C&P and a 14 x 22 C&P, plus two Challenge
        > 23" cutters. All accumulated over the past seven years or so. I moved all of
        > this equipment myself. All you need is a pallet jack and a heavy duty
        > utility trailer. Plus, moving equipment (rigging) is a pleasurable activity if
        > done safely.
        >
        > Speed Gray
        > Grad rapids, MI
        >
        >
        > In a message dated 11/4/2009 4:42:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
        > peterf@... writes:
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > On 4 Nov 2009, at 3:37 PM, Harold Kyle wrote:
        >
        > > The best you can do is remove the flywheel, which will then allow
        > > you to
        > > remove the "table" on the front which holds the paper feed and
        > > delivery
        > > sections. These parts are not exactly easy to remove but they are
        > > possible.
        > > You're still left with two very heavy castings which are not
        > > suitable for
        > > carrying. I can describe the process required for this if you'd
        > > like, and it
        > > should print fine afterwards because everything's pinned in place.
        > > Incidentally, I support a constitutional amendment to prohibit
        > > presses from
        > > basements.
        >
        > That would have to be the subterranean rider on the First Amendment, eh?
        >
        > Or a prohibition on Underground Lit?
        >
        > ;-)
        >
        > P
        >
        > >
        > > Hope this helps,
        > > Harold
        > >
        > > --
        > > ---
        > > Boxcar Press
        > > 501 W. Fayette St. #222
        > > Syracuse, NY 13204
        > > www.boxcarpress.
        > >
        >
        > Peter Fraterdeus
        > Exquisite Letterpress from Slow Print Studios
        > _http://slowprint.http_ (http://slowprint.com/)
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • okintertype
        Moving a press that weighs 2500 lbs. is not something to be taken lightly. I assume you meant seven concrete steps rather than stairs. Every move is at
        Message 3 of 23 , Nov 4, 2009
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          Moving a press that weighs 2500 lbs. is not something to be taken lightly. I assume you meant seven concrete "steps" rather than "stairs." Every move is at least somewhat different. I moved mine off a low, flat bed trailer onto a ground level shop floor using homemade lumber ramps, properly blocked up to take the weight, and using pipe rollers and come alongs. This was done after installing 4 x 6 six ft. long lumber skids under the press to stabilize it. It's tedious and somewhat dangerous, but it can be done safely.

          Stan


          --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Arthur" <steinsteve@...> wrote:
          >
          > A pleasurable activity?..............right...............
          >
          > Is your home shop in a basement????????? I highly doubt it.
          >
          > If it was all level ground - then yes no problem, it could be sort of pleasurable. I have pallet jacks, hydraulic jacks, a come along and even a pallet lifter - but how do I get it up 7 concrete stairs!!!
          > So far the highest quote is $8000.00 !!!
          > Even after contacting Heidelberg to dismantle it, I am still not convinced that they are even comfortable with it.
          > It's a real shame to be honest...... not sure what to do.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, speedgray@ wrote:
          > >
          > > In my shop at home I have a Miehle Vertical, a Windmill, two C-4
          > > Intertypes, two Ludlow machines, a 10x15 C&P and a 14 x 22 C&P, plus two Challenge
          > > 23" cutters. All accumulated over the past seven years or so. I moved all of
          > > this equipment myself. All you need is a pallet jack and a heavy duty
          > > utility trailer. Plus, moving equipment (rigging) is a pleasurable activity if
          > > done safely.
          > >
          > > Speed Gray
          > > Grad rapids, MI
          > >
          > >
          > > In a message dated 11/4/2009 4:42:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
          > > peterf@ writes:
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > On 4 Nov 2009, at 3:37 PM, Harold Kyle wrote:
          > >
          > > > The best you can do is remove the flywheel, which will then allow
          > > > you to
          > > > remove the "table" on the front which holds the paper feed and
          > > > delivery
          > > > sections. These parts are not exactly easy to remove but they are
          > > > possible.
          > > > You're still left with two very heavy castings which are not
          > > > suitable for
          > > > carrying. I can describe the process required for this if you'd
          > > > like, and it
          > > > should print fine afterwards because everything's pinned in place.
          > > > Incidentally, I support a constitutional amendment to prohibit
          > > > presses from
          > > > basements.
          > >
          > > That would have to be the subterranean rider on the First Amendment, eh?
          > >
          > > Or a prohibition on Underground Lit?
          > >
          > > ;-)
          > >
          > > P
          > >
          > > >
          > > > Hope this helps,
          > > > Harold
          > > >
          > > > --
          > > > ---
          > > > Boxcar Press
          > > > 501 W. Fayette St. #222
          > > > Syracuse, NY 13204
          > > > www.boxcarpress.
          > > >
          > >
          > > Peter Fraterdeus
          > > Exquisite Letterpress from Slow Print Studios
          > > _http://slowprint.http_ (http://slowprint.com/)
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          >
        • Peter Fraterdeus
          Hmmm. OK, got some time to offer my two cents here. ... There s a big difference between a C&P - even 14.5x22 - and a Heidelberg ;-) I d sure hate to go
          Message 4 of 23 , Nov 4, 2009
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            Hmmm. OK, got some time to offer my two cents here.

            On 4 Nov 2009, at 8:51 PM, jason@... wrote:

            > I was working on a 14.5x22 beast earlier this summer, and I'm
            > currently working on a 10x15 - believe me, the former makes the
            > latter look and feel like a toy. Seems to me that without too much
            > trouble you can get the ink disk, etc., the platen, the flywheel &
            > shaft, and other smaller bits off, leaving you with the main hulk of
            > the press. At that point it doesn't seem too terrible to line your
            > stairs with some 1" plywood, load and strap the press onto a palet-
            > jack, and hoist it up your stairs. The trick, of course, being that
            > you'll need something like a tank to hook your come-along into.


            There's a big difference between a C&P - even 14.5x22 - and a
            Heidelberg ;-)
            I'd sure hate to go through dismantling a Windmill if I didn't have
            to! And hope I never have to!

            > If it was all level ground - then yes no problem, it could be sort
            > of pleasurable. I have pallet jacks, hydraulic jacks, a come along
            > and even a pallet lifter - but how do I get it up 7 concrete stairs!!!
            > So far the highest quote is $8000.00 !!!
            > Even after contacting Heidelberg to dismantle it, I am still not
            > convinced that they are even comfortable with it.
            > It's a real shame to be honest...... not sure what to do.


            Still, as far as the steps go, a ramp and a skid is the way to go. If
            you can get the press on a skid, two 6x12 timbers, say, bolted down
            with lags, and a couple of cold-steel rods to slip under these.

            You can move anything with 5/8 inch steel rods. Just jimmy up the
            front of your skid and get the roller under it.
            Move tons with your pinky ;-) (once it's moving, anyway...)

            The ramp, of course, will need to be very solid. But wood is very
            strong, if used correctly.

            My friends in Anamosa have been known to hire an auto-tow-truck, and
            use the winch to move/skid a press out of wherever and then pick it up
            (with plenty and multiple and redundant cables and straps) to get it
            on a palette.

            Is the door frame solid?
            My first shop was moved out of a basement (back in 1980) in downtown
            Evanston, IL. The mover put two timbers across the threshold of the
            doorway at the top of the stairs (fortunately a straight shot), and
            mounted his winch behind that. Put the presses on skids (as above),
            hooked a heavy wire cable to the press (around the frame and hooked
            back onto itself) to the press and pulled it right up the stairs. I
            think he only had a ramp up the first few, since once it's on the
            angle, the skids will come right along the stairs (assuming they are
            all at the same grade). Skids are chamfered at the ends to assist with
            this, of course.

            Basic machines are your friend :^) Think of it like moving a huge
            block of granite up the pyramids!

            Inclined plane, rollers, winches, hydraulic jacks, Johnson Bar, or the
            biggest crowbar available.
            Non-stretching rope, heavy mesh straps, etc.

            If you have to slide the skid (as opposed to rolling) get a few yards
            of scrap carpet. Will help slide loads over all kinds of surfaces,
            either carpet side down to protect the floor, or carpet side up to
            provide a smoother ride over ridges, thresholds, and so forth.

            The Windmill has a set of holes in the frame through which you can run
            a 2 inch steel pipe (the heavier the better) (I think it's 2 inch...)
            The ones shown in the photo were a bit thin and bent in the process,
            but no problem holding the weight of the press.

            See photo here:
            http://bit.ly/uqq1Y

            I was fortunate to have this 'little' electric fork to work with,
            although I didn't know there was a longer set of forks available,
            which would have helped a lot...

            But we also used simple jack and wedge to get the other press off its
            palette.

            Or ON the palette/skids if you don't have a way to lift it otherwise.
            Get a pipe in there, build a stack of 2x4s under each end of it, and
            jack up the front of the press until you can slide another 2x4 on the
            pile, then, let the jack down, put a 2x4 under the jack and repeat.
            Then repeat at the other end of the press.

            The pipes need to be long enough and the stacks of wood need to be far
            enough apart to eventually be able to get your skids under the foot of
            the press... Reverse to get it off the skids...
            Also remember to put your drip pan down before putting the press in
            place!

            Anyway, the first rule of moving presses is don't try to save it if it
            starts goin' over ;-)
            Seriously. Really.

            The second rule is think three times before putting any strain on your
            self, or your equipment, and make sure it will NOT go over by lifting
            from above if at all possible.

            I can say rigging's a pleasurable sort of activity for problem solvers
            and back of the envelope engineer types ;-)

            Good luck and be safe!

            P

            PS Feel free to send me half of the eight-grand for the free advice ;-)

            >
            > ...
            > A pleasurable activity?..............right...............
            >
            > Is your home shop in a basement????????? I highly doubt it.

            Peter Fraterdeus
            Exquisite Letterpress from Slow Print Studios
            http://slowprint.com/
          • bielerpr
            I really didn t want to get into this, having moved lots of presses in my time and with lots of amazing stories, but, quite frankly, who cares? why do guys get
            Message 5 of 23 , Nov 4, 2009
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              I really didn't want to get into this, having moved lots of presses in my time and with lots of amazing stories, but, quite frankly, who cares? why do guys get off on this?

              A member called me up on the phone tonight and said, "tell them to make a phone call."

              Really, unless you are young and poor and stupid, make the call. To a reputable press mover. You may live, without physical damage, to tell about it.

              Gerald
              PPL

              --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hmmm. OK, got some time to offer my two cents here.
              >
              > On 4 Nov 2009, at 8:51 PM, jason@... wrote:
              >
              > > I was working on a 14.5x22 beast earlier this summer, and I'm
              > > currently working on a 10x15 - believe me, the former makes the
              > > latter look and feel like a toy. Seems to me that without too much
              > > trouble you can get the ink disk, etc., the platen, the flywheel &
              > > shaft, and other smaller bits off, leaving you with the main hulk of
              > > the press. At that point it doesn't seem too terrible to line your
              > > stairs with some 1" plywood, load and strap the press onto a palet-
              > > jack, and hoist it up your stairs. The trick, of course, being that
              > > you'll need something like a tank to hook your come-along into.
              >
              >
              > There's a big difference between a C&P - even 14.5x22 - and a
              > Heidelberg ;-)
              > I'd sure hate to go through dismantling a Windmill if I didn't have
              > to! And hope I never have to!
              >
              > > If it was all level ground - then yes no problem, it could be sort
              > > of pleasurable. I have pallet jacks, hydraulic jacks, a come along
              > > and even a pallet lifter - but how do I get it up 7 concrete stairs!!!
              > > So far the highest quote is $8000.00 !!!
              > > Even after contacting Heidelberg to dismantle it, I am still not
              > > convinced that they are even comfortable with it.
              > > It's a real shame to be honest...... not sure what to do.
              >
              >
              > Still, as far as the steps go, a ramp and a skid is the way to go. If
              > you can get the press on a skid, two 6x12 timbers, say, bolted down
              > with lags, and a couple of cold-steel rods to slip under these.
              >
              > You can move anything with 5/8 inch steel rods. Just jimmy up the
              > front of your skid and get the roller under it.
              > Move tons with your pinky ;-) (once it's moving, anyway...)
              >
              > The ramp, of course, will need to be very solid. But wood is very
              > strong, if used correctly.
              >
              > My friends in Anamosa have been known to hire an auto-tow-truck, and
              > use the winch to move/skid a press out of wherever and then pick it up
              > (with plenty and multiple and redundant cables and straps) to get it
              > on a palette.
              >
              > Is the door frame solid?
              > My first shop was moved out of a basement (back in 1980) in downtown
              > Evanston, IL. The mover put two timbers across the threshold of the
              > doorway at the top of the stairs (fortunately a straight shot), and
              > mounted his winch behind that. Put the presses on skids (as above),
              > hooked a heavy wire cable to the press (around the frame and hooked
              > back onto itself) to the press and pulled it right up the stairs. I
              > think he only had a ramp up the first few, since once it's on the
              > angle, the skids will come right along the stairs (assuming they are
              > all at the same grade). Skids are chamfered at the ends to assist with
              > this, of course.
              >
              > Basic machines are your friend :^) Think of it like moving a huge
              > block of granite up the pyramids!
              >
              > Inclined plane, rollers, winches, hydraulic jacks, Johnson Bar, or the
              > biggest crowbar available.
              > Non-stretching rope, heavy mesh straps, etc.
              >
              > If you have to slide the skid (as opposed to rolling) get a few yards
              > of scrap carpet. Will help slide loads over all kinds of surfaces,
              > either carpet side down to protect the floor, or carpet side up to
              > provide a smoother ride over ridges, thresholds, and so forth.
              >
              > The Windmill has a set of holes in the frame through which you can run
              > a 2 inch steel pipe (the heavier the better) (I think it's 2 inch...)
              > The ones shown in the photo were a bit thin and bent in the process,
              > but no problem holding the weight of the press.
              >
              > See photo here:
              > http://bit.ly/uqq1Y
              >
              > I was fortunate to have this 'little' electric fork to work with,
              > although I didn't know there was a longer set of forks available,
              > which would have helped a lot...
              >
              > But we also used simple jack and wedge to get the other press off its
              > palette.
              >
              > Or ON the palette/skids if you don't have a way to lift it otherwise.
              > Get a pipe in there, build a stack of 2x4s under each end of it, and
              > jack up the front of the press until you can slide another 2x4 on the
              > pile, then, let the jack down, put a 2x4 under the jack and repeat.
              > Then repeat at the other end of the press.
              >
              > The pipes need to be long enough and the stacks of wood need to be far
              > enough apart to eventually be able to get your skids under the foot of
              > the press... Reverse to get it off the skids...
              > Also remember to put your drip pan down before putting the press in
              > place!
              >
              > Anyway, the first rule of moving presses is don't try to save it if it
              > starts goin' over ;-)
              > Seriously. Really.
              >
              > The second rule is think three times before putting any strain on your
              > self, or your equipment, and make sure it will NOT go over by lifting
              > from above if at all possible.
              >
              > I can say rigging's a pleasurable sort of activity for problem solvers
              > and back of the envelope engineer types ;-)
              >
              > Good luck and be safe!
              >
              > P
              >
              > PS Feel free to send me half of the eight-grand for the free advice ;-)
              >
              > >
              > > ...
              > > A pleasurable activity?..............right...............
              > >
              > > Is your home shop in a basement????????? I highly doubt it.
              >
              > Peter Fraterdeus
              > Exquisite Letterpress from Slow Print Studios
              > http://slowprint.com/
              >
            • Peter Fraterdeus
              ... Honestly, I hope I never have to move another press in my life, but the press gods may have other plans, who knows. However, I m happy to be able to
              Message 6 of 23 , Nov 4, 2009
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                On 4 Nov 2009, at 11:18 PM, bielerpr wrote:

                > I really didn't want to get into this, having moved lots of presses
                > in my time and with lots of amazing stories, but, quite frankly, who
                > cares? why do guys get off on this?
                >
                > A member called me up on the phone tonight and said, "tell them to
                > make a phone call."
                >
                > Really, unless you are young and poor and stupid, make the call. To
                > a reputable press mover. You may live, without physical damage, to
                > tell about it.
                >
                > Gerald
                > PPL


                Honestly, I hope I never have to move another press in my life, but
                the press gods may have other plans, who knows.

                However, I'm happy to be able to contribute a useful synopsis.
                And I don't care to try to understand why someone would begrudge that,
                why do guys get off on that?

                Easy to say "make a phone call" - perhaps some of us are not so well
                endowed as to just snap our fingers and 'make it so'
                Maybe some of us like to get dirty and greasy and figure out a tough
                problem now and then.

                Fer cryin' out loud. If I wasn't an optimist, I'd have just let you
                ruin a perfectly good mood.

                Cheers :-)

                P

                Peter Fraterdeus
                http://slowprint.com/
              • bielerpr
                Whatever. G
                Message 7 of 23 , Nov 4, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  Whatever.

                  G

                  --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > On 4 Nov 2009, at 11:18 PM, bielerpr wrote:
                  >
                  > > I really didn't want to get into this, having moved lots of presses
                  > > in my time and with lots of amazing stories, but, quite frankly, who
                  > > cares? why do guys get off on this?
                  > >
                  > > A member called me up on the phone tonight and said, "tell them to
                  > > make a phone call."
                  > >
                  > > Really, unless you are young and poor and stupid, make the call. To
                  > > a reputable press mover. You may live, without physical damage, to
                  > > tell about it.
                  > >
                  > > Gerald
                  > > PPL
                  >
                  >
                  > Honestly, I hope I never have to move another press in my life, but
                  > the press gods may have other plans, who knows.
                  >
                  > However, I'm happy to be able to contribute a useful synopsis.
                  > And I don't care to try to understand why someone would begrudge that,
                  > why do guys get off on that?
                  >
                  > Easy to say "make a phone call" - perhaps some of us are not so well
                  > endowed as to just snap our fingers and 'make it so'
                  > Maybe some of us like to get dirty and greasy and figure out a tough
                  > problem now and then.
                  >
                  > Fer cryin' out loud. If I wasn't an optimist, I'd have just let you
                  > ruin a perfectly good mood.
                  >
                  > Cheers :-)
                  >
                  > P
                  >
                  > Peter Fraterdeus
                  > http://slowprint.com/
                  >
                • one@onefootinfront.com
                  Gerald is right, coming from the experience of being young, broke and stupid I now use movers for more anything over 1500#...so worth it plus you must be a
                  Message 8 of 23 , Nov 4, 2009
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                    Gerald is right, coming from the experience of being young, broke and stupid
                    I now use movers for more anything over 1500#...so worth it

                    plus you must be a superior mechanic to piece out a Heidelberg and than
                    get it to work again. kudos if you have that skill

                    > Whatever.
                    >
                    > G
                    >
                    > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@...> wrote:
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> On 4 Nov 2009, at 11:18 PM, bielerpr wrote:
                    >>
                    >> > I really didn't want to get into this, having moved lots of presses
                    >> > in my time and with lots of amazing stories, but, quite frankly, who
                    >> > cares? why do guys get off on this?
                    >> >
                    >> > A member called me up on the phone tonight and said, "tell them to
                    >> > make a phone call."
                    >> >
                    >> > Really, unless you are young and poor and stupid, make the call. To
                    >> > a reputable press mover. You may live, without physical damage, to
                    >> > tell about it.
                    >> >
                    >> > Gerald
                    >> > PPL
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Honestly, I hope I never have to move another press in my life, but
                    >> the press gods may have other plans, who knows.
                    >>
                    >> However, I'm happy to be able to contribute a useful synopsis.
                    >> And I don't care to try to understand why someone would begrudge that,
                    >> why do guys get off on that?
                    >>
                    >> Easy to say "make a phone call" - perhaps some of us are not so well
                    >> endowed as to just snap our fingers and 'make it so'
                    >> Maybe some of us like to get dirty and greasy and figure out a tough
                    >> problem now and then.
                    >>
                    >> Fer cryin' out loud. If I wasn't an optimist, I'd have just let you
                    >> ruin a perfectly good mood.
                    >>
                    >> Cheers :-)
                    >>
                    >> P
                    >>
                    >> Peter Fraterdeus
                    >> http://slowprint.com/
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • jason@greenboathouse.com
                    I should mention that I mistakenly thought we were talking about C&Ps, not Heidelbergs. I have no experience whatsoever with the latter... Jason ... From:
                    Message 9 of 23 , Nov 4, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I should mention that I mistakenly thought we were talking about C&Ps, not Heidelbergs.
                      I have no experience whatsoever with the latter...

                      Jason



                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: one@...
                      To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 9:48 PM
                      Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Dismantling a Windmill for moving



                      Gerald is right, coming from the experience of being young, broke and stupid
                      I now use movers for more anything over 1500#...so worth it

                      plus you must be a superior mechanic to piece out a Heidelberg and than
                      get it to work again. kudos if you have that skill

                      > Whatever.
                      >
                      > G
                      >
                      > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@...> wrote:
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> On 4 Nov 2009, at 11:18 PM, bielerpr wrote:
                      >>
                      >> > I really didn't want to get into this, having moved lots of presses
                      >> > in my time and with lots of amazing stories, but, quite frankly, who
                      >> > cares? why do guys get off on this?
                      >> >
                      >> > A member called me up on the phone tonight and said, "tell them to
                      >> > make a phone call."
                      >> >
                      >> > Really, unless you are young and poor and stupid, make the call. To
                      >> > a reputable press mover. You may live, without physical damage, to
                      >> > tell about it.
                      >> >
                      >> > Gerald
                      >> > PPL
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> Honestly, I hope I never have to move another press in my life, but
                      >> the press gods may have other plans, who knows.
                      >>
                      >> However, I'm happy to be able to contribute a useful synopsis.
                      >> And I don't care to try to understand why someone would begrudge that,
                      >> why do guys get off on that?
                      >>
                      >> Easy to say "make a phone call" - perhaps some of us are not so well
                      >> endowed as to just snap our fingers and 'make it so'
                      >> Maybe some of us like to get dirty and greasy and figure out a tough
                      >> problem now and then.
                      >>
                      >> Fer cryin' out loud. If I wasn't an optimist, I'd have just let you
                      >> ruin a perfectly good mood.
                      >>
                      >> Cheers :-)
                      >>
                      >> P
                      >>
                      >> Peter Fraterdeus
                      >> http://slowprint.com/
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      >





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Steve Robison
                      To would be press movers... I can t resist jumping in here with yet another absurd mover s thought... Some years back, we were on vacation and it rained
                      Message 10 of 23 , Nov 4, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment
                        To would be press movers...

                        I can't resist jumping in here with yet another absurd mover's thought...

                        Some years back, we were on vacation and it rained buckets while we were gone. Our basement flooded because the sump pump we had down there decided to quit. Murphy's law always works overtime when you're gone on vacation. Anyway, when we got back home we had a fairly good sized swimming pool under the house and stuff floating around everywhere down there.

                        So my thought is this:

                        As opposed to spending $8,000 to move the windmill, just hire some folks to move everything but the Heidi out of the basement. Then attach flotation devices to the windmill and fill the basement with water until you can float the press out!

                        Let's see....

                        $250 for labor to move everything out of the basement
                        $450 for some really effective flotation tanks to attach to the press
                        $500 water bill to fill up the basement
                        $150 for a pump to pump out all the water after you get the press out
                        $150 fan rental to air out the basement afterward
                        $250 for labor to move everything else back in to the basement
                        $250 for all the misc. stuff I forgot you'll need
                        = $2,000 TOTAL

                        See, with a little ingenuity you could save $6000 on the move, and if you invite the local TV news crews over, you could even see yourself on the 6 o'clock news that night, not to mention a YouTube video or two on the web, and maybe ask for donations to offset the costs sent to your offshore account.

                        It's kind of like a story my Dad used to tell about a farmer who was having a problem getting his truck full of chicken's up a steep grade. So the farmer stopped the truck and sent his son to the back of the truck with a stick, instructing his son to wave the stick around wildly. The farmer then gunned the engine, and while his son waved the stick, half of the chickens were kept flying around, and the truck made it up and over the grade without a problem.

                        Sometimes thinking out of the box (or in this case, "out of the basement") might make the impossible possible!

                        By the way, I too have moved my share of heavy printing equipment over the years, both for myself and many others. I tend to shy away from moving anything larger than a 10x15 C&P, and have been quite comfortable watching (and sometimes advising) professional movers move the rest.

                        Best wishes,

                        --Steve

                        Steve Robison
                        The Robison Press
                        Belmont, CA - about 25 miles south of San Francisco
                        robisonsteve@...



                        __________________________________________________
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                      • Steve Robison
                        By the way, when it s larger than a 10 x 15, I call the Hicks Brothers! --Steve Steve Robison robisonsteve@yahoo.com
                        Message 11 of 23 , Nov 4, 2009
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                          By the way, when it's larger than a 10 x 15, I call the Hicks Brothers!

                          --Steve

                          Steve Robison
                          robisonsteve@...


                          --- On Wed, 11/4/09, Steve Robison <robisonsteve@...> wrote:

                          > From: Steve Robison <robisonsteve@...>
                          > Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Dismantling a Windmill for moving
                          > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                          > Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 11:03 PM
                          > To would be press movers...
                          >
                          > I can't resist jumping in here with yet another absurd
                          > mover's thought...
                          >
                          > Some years back, we were on vacation and it rained buckets
                          > while we were gone. Our basement flooded because the sump
                          > pump we had down there decided to quit. Murphy's law always
                          > works overtime when you're gone on vacation. Anyway, when we
                          > got back home we had a fairly good sized swimming pool under
                          > the house and stuff floating around everywhere down there.
                          >
                          > So my thought is this:
                          >
                          > As opposed to spending $8,000 to move the windmill, just
                          > hire some folks to move everything but the Heidi out of the
                          > basement. Then attach flotation devices to the windmill and
                          > fill the basement with water until you can float the press
                          > out!
                          >
                          > Let's see....
                          >
                          >     $250 for labor to move everything out of the
                          > basement
                          >     $450 for some really effective flotation
                          > tanks to attach to the press
                          >     $500 water bill to fill up the basement
                          >     $150 for a pump to pump out all the water
                          > after you get the press out
                          >     $150 fan rental to air out the basement
                          > afterward
                          >     $250 for labor to move everything else back
                          > in to the basement
                          >     $250 for all the misc. stuff I forgot you'll
                          > need
                          > = $2,000 TOTAL
                          >
                          > See, with a little ingenuity you could save $6000 on the
                          > move, and if you invite the local TV news crews over, you
                          > could even see yourself on the 6 o'clock news that night,
                          > not to mention a YouTube video or two on the web, and maybe
                          > ask for donations to offset the costs sent to your offshore
                          > account.
                          >
                          > It's kind of like a story my Dad used to tell about a
                          > farmer who was having a problem getting his truck full of
                          > chicken's up a steep grade. So the farmer stopped the truck
                          > and sent his son to the back of the truck with a stick,
                          > instructing his son to wave the stick around wildly. The
                          > farmer then gunned the engine, and while his son waved the
                          > stick, half of the chickens were kept flying around, and the
                          > truck made it up and over the grade without a problem.
                          >
                          > Sometimes thinking out of the box (or in this case, "out of
                          > the basement") might make the impossible possible!
                          >
                          > By the way, I too have moved my share of heavy printing
                          > equipment over the years, both for myself and many others. I
                          > tend to shy away from moving anything larger than a 10x15
                          > C&P, and have been quite comfortable watching (and
                          > sometimes advising) professional movers move the rest.
                          >
                          > Best wishes,
                          >
                          > --Steve
                          >
                          > Steve Robison
                          > The Robison Press
                          > Belmont, CA - about 25 miles south of San Francisco
                          > robisonsteve@...
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > __________________________________________________
                          > Do You Yahoo!?
                          > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
                          > protection around
                          > http://mail.yahoo.com
                          >
                        • Visualpropaganda
                          Hello all, I just moved a windmill about two months ago. It was already dismantled. The table (with paper feed etc.) was on a different pallet than the base. I
                          Message 12 of 23 , Nov 5, 2009
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hello all,

                            I just moved a windmill about two months ago. It was already
                            dismantled. The table (with paper feed etc.) was on a different pallet
                            than the base. I just hired a truck and was able to put it on the
                            truck with help from the people from whom I bought it. I tried
                            unloading it with the help of my father and nearly killed myself. No
                            kidding! It's not fun when 1 ton of heavy german steal on a pallet-
                            jack is pushing you from the truck ramp. I was lucky enough that one
                            of the pallet-jack wheels got caught somewhere on the ramp and stopped
                            the whole pallet-jack + windmill base to go further. If this didn't
                            happen, I definitely couldn't write you these few lines.
                            I managed to get the base from the truck anyway, but soon after it
                            fell over onto the street. Unfortunately onto the impression throw-
                            off lever, which got bend below the weight of the base. I couldn't get
                            the base up again and from the street. So I had to call a heavy
                            machinery moving company who picked it up with a forklift and put it
                            in my garage. So I head to pay someone anyway. If I had hired them
                            from the start to unload the windmill, it probably wouldn't be damaged
                            (which I was able to fix by now) and I wouldn't have risked my life.
                            I know letterpress is a passion, but one to die for or even worse get
                            crippled for? I've learned from that, that I will never move the
                            windmill or a windmill on my own again.

                            Just another note about dismantling the windmill. I've found a retired
                            german heidelberg service technician, who helped me repair my windmill
                            and will help me to restore it. He said dismantling the table and
                            other pieces like the engine and the air pump doesn't really hurt the
                            windmill. It will all fit together again nicely. The advantage is,
                            that you will have the chance to give the windmill a good clean up
                            while dismantled.

                            Hope this helps
                            Mirko





                            Am 05.11.2009 um 06:18 schrieb bielerpr:

                            > I really didn't want to get into this, having moved lots of presses
                            > in my time and with lots of amazing stories, but, quite frankly, who
                            > cares? why do guys get off on this?
                            >
                            > A member called me up on the phone tonight and said, "tell them to
                            > make a phone call."
                            >
                            > Really, unless you are young and poor and stupid, make the call. To
                            > a reputable press mover. You may live, without physical damage, to
                            > tell about it.
                            >
                            > Gerald
                            > PPL
                            >
                            > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@...>
                            > wrote:
                            >>
                            >> Hmmm. OK, got some time to offer my two cents here.
                            >>
                            >> On 4 Nov 2009, at 8:51 PM, jason@... wrote:
                            >>
                            >>> I was working on a 14.5x22 beast earlier this summer, and I'm
                            >>> currently working on a 10x15 - believe me, the former makes the
                            >>> latter look and feel like a toy. Seems to me that without too much
                            >>> trouble you can get the ink disk, etc., the platen, the flywheel &
                            >>> shaft, and other smaller bits off, leaving you with the main hulk of
                            >>> the press. At that point it doesn't seem too terrible to line your
                            >>> stairs with some 1" plywood, load and strap the press onto a palet-
                            >>> jack, and hoist it up your stairs. The trick, of course, being that
                            >>> you'll need something like a tank to hook your come-along into.
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> There's a big difference between a C&P - even 14.5x22 - and a
                            >> Heidelberg ;-)
                            >> I'd sure hate to go through dismantling a Windmill if I didn't have
                            >> to! And hope I never have to!
                            >>
                            >>> If it was all level ground - then yes no problem, it could be sort
                            >>> of pleasurable. I have pallet jacks, hydraulic jacks, a come along
                            >>> and even a pallet lifter - but how do I get it up 7 concrete
                            >>> stairs!!!
                            >>> So far the highest quote is $8000.00 !!!
                            >>> Even after contacting Heidelberg to dismantle it, I am still not
                            >>> convinced that they are even comfortable with it.
                            >>> It's a real shame to be honest...... not sure what to do.
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> Still, as far as the steps go, a ramp and a skid is the way to go. If
                            >> you can get the press on a skid, two 6x12 timbers, say, bolted down
                            >> with lags, and a couple of cold-steel rods to slip under these.
                            >>
                            >> You can move anything with 5/8 inch steel rods. Just jimmy up the
                            >> front of your skid and get the roller under it.
                            >> Move tons with your pinky ;-) (once it's moving, anyway...)
                            >>
                            >> The ramp, of course, will need to be very solid. But wood is very
                            >> strong, if used correctly.
                            >>
                            >> My friends in Anamosa have been known to hire an auto-tow-truck, and
                            >> use the winch to move/skid a press out of wherever and then pick it
                            >> up
                            >> (with plenty and multiple and redundant cables and straps) to get it
                            >> on a palette.
                            >>
                            >> Is the door frame solid?
                            >> My first shop was moved out of a basement (back in 1980) in downtown
                            >> Evanston, IL. The mover put two timbers across the threshold of the
                            >> doorway at the top of the stairs (fortunately a straight shot), and
                            >> mounted his winch behind that. Put the presses on skids (as above),
                            >> hooked a heavy wire cable to the press (around the frame and hooked
                            >> back onto itself) to the press and pulled it right up the stairs. I
                            >> think he only had a ramp up the first few, since once it's on the
                            >> angle, the skids will come right along the stairs (assuming they are
                            >> all at the same grade). Skids are chamfered at the ends to assist
                            >> with
                            >> this, of course.
                            >>
                            >> Basic machines are your friend :^) Think of it like moving a huge
                            >> block of granite up the pyramids!
                            >>
                            >> Inclined plane, rollers, winches, hydraulic jacks, Johnson Bar, or
                            >> the
                            >> biggest crowbar available.
                            >> Non-stretching rope, heavy mesh straps, etc.
                            >>
                            >> If you have to slide the skid (as opposed to rolling) get a few yards
                            >> of scrap carpet. Will help slide loads over all kinds of surfaces,
                            >> either carpet side down to protect the floor, or carpet side up to
                            >> provide a smoother ride over ridges, thresholds, and so forth.
                            >>
                            >> The Windmill has a set of holes in the frame through which you can
                            >> run
                            >> a 2 inch steel pipe (the heavier the better) (I think it's 2
                            >> inch...)
                            >> The ones shown in the photo were a bit thin and bent in the process,
                            >> but no problem holding the weight of the press.
                            >>
                            >> See photo here:
                            >> http://bit.ly/uqq1Y
                            >>
                            >> I was fortunate to have this 'little' electric fork to work with,
                            >> although I didn't know there was a longer set of forks available,
                            >> which would have helped a lot...
                            >>
                            >> But we also used simple jack and wedge to get the other press off its
                            >> palette.
                            >>
                            >> Or ON the palette/skids if you don't have a way to lift it otherwise.
                            >> Get a pipe in there, build a stack of 2x4s under each end of it, and
                            >> jack up the front of the press until you can slide another 2x4 on the
                            >> pile, then, let the jack down, put a 2x4 under the jack and repeat.
                            >> Then repeat at the other end of the press.
                            >>
                            >> The pipes need to be long enough and the stacks of wood need to be
                            >> far
                            >> enough apart to eventually be able to get your skids under the foot
                            >> of
                            >> the press... Reverse to get it off the skids...
                            >> Also remember to put your drip pan down before putting the press in
                            >> place!
                            >>
                            >> Anyway, the first rule of moving presses is don't try to save it if
                            >> it
                            >> starts goin' over ;-)
                            >> Seriously. Really.
                            >>
                            >> The second rule is think three times before putting any strain on
                            >> your
                            >> self, or your equipment, and make sure it will NOT go over by lifting
                            >> from above if at all possible.
                            >>
                            >> I can say rigging's a pleasurable sort of activity for problem
                            >> solvers
                            >> and back of the envelope engineer types ;-)
                            >>
                            >> Good luck and be safe!
                            >>
                            >> P
                            >>
                            >> PS Feel free to send me half of the eight-grand for the free
                            >> advice ;-)
                            >>
                            >>>
                            >>> ...
                            >>> A pleasurable activity?..............right...............
                            >>>
                            >>> Is your home shop in a basement????????? I highly doubt it.
                            >>
                            >> Peter Fraterdeus
                            >> Exquisite Letterpress from Slow Print Studios
                            >> http://slowprint.com/
                            >>
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Peter Fraterdeus
                            A cautionary tale indeed. Don t use a pallet jack on a ramp. Bad idea. Glad to hear you and the press survived. Also glad to hear you ve got a German tech
                            Message 13 of 23 , Nov 5, 2009
                            • 0 Attachment
                              A cautionary tale indeed.

                              Don't use a pallet jack on a ramp.

                              Bad idea.

                              Glad to hear you and the press survived.
                              Also glad to hear you've got a German tech nearby. Great resource!!

                              Anybody know of a Windmill service tech in the Upper Midwest?

                              PF

                              On 5 Nov 2009, at 4:37 AM, Visualpropaganda wrote:

                              > Hello all,
                              >
                              > I just moved a windmill about two months ago. It was already
                              > dismantled. The table (with paper feed etc.) was on a different pallet
                              > than the base. I just hired a truck and was able to put it on the
                              > truck with help from the people from whom I bought it. I tried
                              > unloading it with the help of my father and nearly killed myself. No
                              > ...
                              > I know letterpress is a passion, but one to die for or even worse get
                              > crippled for? I've learned from that, that I will never move the
                              > windmill or a windmill on my own again.
                              >
                              > Just another note about dismantling the windmill. I've found a retired
                              > german heidelberg service technician, who helped me repair my windmill
                              > and will help me to restore it. He said dismantling the table and
                              > other pieces like the engine and the air pump doesn't really hurt the
                              > windmill. It will all fit together again nicely. The advantage is,
                              > that you will have the chance to give the windmill a good clean up
                              > while dismantled.
                              >
                              > Hope this helps
                              > Mirko
                              >
                              >

                              Peter Fraterdeus
                              Exquisite Letterpress from Slow Print Studios
                              http://slowprint.com/
                            • Joanna Brinckerhoff
                              Peter, I don t know if he is still in the business, but I worked with a man named John Guteck who was a Heidelberg technician. He installed the Windmill that
                              Message 14 of 23 , Nov 5, 2009
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Peter,



                                I don't know if he is still in the business, but I worked with a man named
                                John Guteck who was a Heidelberg technician. He installed the Windmill that
                                you purchased from me, taught me how to use it, and serviced it for me every
                                year.

                                He was located outside of Chicago and the contact numbers I have for him are
                                847-550-1617 (business) and 847-804-1617 (cell). It's been a while since I
                                last called him, but maybe he is still around.



                                Hope all is well with you.



                                Thanks,

                                Joanna



                                Joanna Brinckerhoff

                                Joie Designs, Ltd.

                                123 West Hickory Street

                                Hinsdale, Illinois 60521

                                Tel: 312.543.9582

                                Fax: 630.920.3102

                                Email: joanna@...



                                _____

                                From: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com]
                                On Behalf Of Peter Fraterdeus
                                Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 9:04 AM
                                To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Dismantling a Windmill for moving





                                A cautionary tale indeed.

                                Don't use a pallet jack on a ramp.

                                Bad idea.

                                Glad to hear you and the press survived.
                                Also glad to hear you've got a German tech nearby. Great resource!!

                                Anybody know of a Windmill service tech in the Upper Midwest?

                                PF

                                On 5 Nov 2009, at 4:37 AM, Visualpropaganda wrote:

                                > Hello all,
                                >
                                > I just moved a windmill about two months ago. It was already
                                > dismantled. The table (with paper feed etc.) was on a different pallet
                                > than the base. I just hired a truck and was able to put it on the
                                > truck with help from the people from whom I bought it. I tried
                                > unloading it with the help of my father and nearly killed myself. No
                                > ...
                                > I know letterpress is a passion, but one to die for or even worse get
                                > crippled for? I've learned from that, that I will never move the
                                > windmill or a windmill on my own again.
                                >
                                > Just another note about dismantling the windmill. I've found a retired
                                > german heidelberg service technician, who helped me repair my windmill
                                > and will help me to restore it. He said dismantling the table and
                                > other pieces like the engine and the air pump doesn't really hurt the
                                > windmill. It will all fit together again nicely. The advantage is,
                                > that you will have the chance to give the windmill a good clean up
                                > while dismantled.
                                >
                                > Hope this helps
                                > Mirko
                                >
                                >

                                Peter Fraterdeus
                                Exquisite Letterpress from Slow Print Studios
                                http://slowprint. <http://slowprint.com/> com/





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Eric
                                ... I d say instead, never use a ramp without control of the object (by winch, comealong, ropes, helpers with prybars and/or wedges for brakes; there are many
                                Message 15 of 23 , Nov 5, 2009
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Don't use a pallet jack on a ramp.

                                  I'd say instead, never use a ramp without control of the object (by winch, comealong, ropes, helpers with prybars and/or wedges for brakes; there are many possibilites) and never stand downramp of a heavy moveable object. A jack could be used with those conditions.
                                  And yes, I did learn that the hard way.
                                  --Eric Holub, SF
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