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Re: Counters not washing out

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  • jasonmacdallas
    Casey, I ve experienced a little bit of the same problem lately (and I believe we are getting material from the same vendor here in Texas.) So, it s certainly
    Message 1 of 12 , Sep 12, 2009
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      Casey,

      I've experienced a little bit of the same problem lately (and I believe we are getting material from the same vendor here in Texas.) So, it's certainly possible that there has been a formula change in KF152. I've noticed that the problem goes away when the water is cleaner (after lots of platemaking it gets milky and that is when i see more of a problem, so i just change the water during longer sessions.)

      Jason McDaniel
      Missing Q Press

      --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "cmcgarr1957" <casey@...> wrote:
      >
      > Thanks everyone, I appreciate the insight. I'll do a longer washout and see if that helps. Earlier I didn't do a pre exposure and it helped a little. However some of the counters were still not washed out enough. I'll do another test and see what follows.
      >
      > I'll post the results.
      >
      > Thanks again for the help.
      >
      > Casey
      > iLP
      >
    • cmcgarr1957
      I bumped up the washout to 6 minutes and to work. 1 minute more than usual seems like a lot. Casey iLP
      Message 2 of 12 , Sep 12, 2009
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        I bumped up the washout to 6 minutes and to work. 1 minute more than usual seems like a lot.

        Casey
        iLP


        > Counters are not washing out deep enough. Is that due to too long pre exposure of my deep relief plate?
        >
        > Casey
        > iLP
        >
      • Harold Kyle
        Do you have a way to check the density of your films? This problem can also happen because the black isn t dense enough in your film negatives. If not, the
        Message 3 of 12 , Sep 12, 2009
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          Do you have a way to check the density of your films? This problem can also
          happen because the black isn't dense enough in your film negatives. If not,
          the down-and-dirty test is: can you see an overhead light through the neg if
          you hold it up above your head? If you see the lightbulb or lightbulb
          filament through the film it's not dense enough.
          Hope this helps,
          Harold

          --
          ---
          Boxcar Press
          501 W. Fayette St. #222
          Syracuse, NY 13204
          www.boxcarpress.com


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • cmcgarr1957
          Kyle, I don t have way to check the density of the film an the film output bureau has been pretty consistent. I ll ask on Monday because this maybe the
          Message 4 of 12 , Sep 13, 2009
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            Kyle,

            I don't have way to check the density of the film an the film output bureau has been pretty consistent. I'll ask on Monday because this maybe the problem. The longer washout helped but the counters are still not open enough.

            Casey
            iLP
          • typetom@aol.com
            Hi Casey, I have not worked with polymer plates that involve back exposure, but it sounds like over-exposure to me. For my steel-backed plates, the washout
            Message 5 of 12 , Sep 13, 2009
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              Hi Casey,
              I have not worked with polymer plates that involve back exposure, but it
              sounds like over-exposure to me. For my steel-backed plates, the washout time
              is critical only when it is too long - when the time in the water allows
              the base of the polymer to absorb too much water and thus allows the
              hardened surface to separate and move or break off. More time in washout does not
              dissolve material that has been hardened.

              Too much exposure time, however, will harden more of the base and can fill
              counters or white lines in a reverse image, because the base material
              swells out from the face of the exposed image as it has time to harden more of
              the base polymer, as the UV light continues to penetrate indirectly to areas
              normally protected by the negative - the surface of a letter will look
              correct, but the sides and counters will be swollen if it is over-exposed.

              Could be emulsion density, but it is possible to work around even weak
              emulsion by under-exposure.
              Best wishes,
              Tom

              Tom Parson/ Now It's Up To You
              157 S Logan, Denver CO 80209
              (303) 777-8951 home & printshop
              (720) 480-5358 cellphone
              _typetom@..._ (mailto:typetom@...)



              In a message dated 9/13/2009 8:20:14 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
              casey@... writes:

              Kyle,

              I don't have way to check the density of the film an the film output
              bureau has been pretty consistent. I'll ask on Monday because this maybe the
              problem. The longer washout helped but the counters are still not open enough.

              Casey
              iLP











              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Austin Jones
              From what I am reading of this thread, I can only conclude that there are many people out there who are using photopolymer on a daily basis. This leads to the
              Message 6 of 12 , Sep 13, 2009
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                From what I am reading of this thread, I can only conclude that there are
                many people out there who are using photopolymer on a daily basis. This
                leads to the common practice of developing a procedure which works. The
                problem with this practice is that things change which you are not aware of.
                I do not work much with film today but when I did the slightest change in
                any of the steps could cause major changes in the outcome. Film, developer,
                water, as well as environment can have a major impact on the total process.

                I would suggest that even though you are getting your negs from the same
                service, it is highly likely that they have changed suppliers or their
                supplier may have changed their supplier. All of the other things involved
                should be considered one at a time.

                When a procedure works then stops working it is sometimes difficult to
                remember how the procedure was developed. It is just done by habit and you
                don't remember why some of the steps are important or how you came up with
                that conclusion.

                I am just suggesting that the procedure be revisited and considered step by
                step and make no assumptions. Only make one change at a time to eliminate
                possibilities.

                I know film processing is an art which has been mechanized to the point that
                no one needs to make note today.

                I hope this is a help in finding the cause of the change.

                tks

                Austin Jones
                prints by AJ
                austin@...
                http://printsbyaj.com
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "cmcgarr1957" <casey@...>
                To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 10:19 AM
                Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Counters not washing out


                > Kyle,
                >
                > I don't have way to check the density of the film an the film output
                > bureau has been pretty consistent. I'll ask on Monday because this maybe
                > the problem. The longer washout helped but the counters are still not open
                > enough.
                >
                > Casey
                > iLP
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
              • cmcgarr1957
                Thanks Austin, very good points. I visited with the film output business and their densities were light reading around 2.5. They output new film and I m back
                Message 7 of 12 , Sep 14, 2009
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                  Thanks Austin, very good points.

                  I visited with the film output business and their densities were light reading around 2.5. They output new film and I'm back in business making good plates.

                  Thanks for all the recommendations everyone gave me.

                  Casey
                  iLP
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