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Re: Counters not washing out

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  • cmcgarr1957
    Thanks everyone, I appreciate the insight. I ll do a longer washout and see if that helps. Earlier I didn t do a pre exposure and it helped a little. However
    Message 1 of 12 , Sep 12, 2009
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      Thanks everyone, I appreciate the insight. I'll do a longer washout and see if that helps. Earlier I didn't do a pre exposure and it helped a little. However some of the counters were still not washed out enough. I'll do another test and see what follows.

      I'll post the results.

      Thanks again for the help.

      Casey
      iLP
    • jasonmacdallas
      Casey, I ve experienced a little bit of the same problem lately (and I believe we are getting material from the same vendor here in Texas.) So, it s certainly
      Message 2 of 12 , Sep 12, 2009
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        Casey,

        I've experienced a little bit of the same problem lately (and I believe we are getting material from the same vendor here in Texas.) So, it's certainly possible that there has been a formula change in KF152. I've noticed that the problem goes away when the water is cleaner (after lots of platemaking it gets milky and that is when i see more of a problem, so i just change the water during longer sessions.)

        Jason McDaniel
        Missing Q Press

        --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "cmcgarr1957" <casey@...> wrote:
        >
        > Thanks everyone, I appreciate the insight. I'll do a longer washout and see if that helps. Earlier I didn't do a pre exposure and it helped a little. However some of the counters were still not washed out enough. I'll do another test and see what follows.
        >
        > I'll post the results.
        >
        > Thanks again for the help.
        >
        > Casey
        > iLP
        >
      • cmcgarr1957
        I bumped up the washout to 6 minutes and to work. 1 minute more than usual seems like a lot. Casey iLP
        Message 3 of 12 , Sep 12, 2009
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          I bumped up the washout to 6 minutes and to work. 1 minute more than usual seems like a lot.

          Casey
          iLP


          > Counters are not washing out deep enough. Is that due to too long pre exposure of my deep relief plate?
          >
          > Casey
          > iLP
          >
        • Harold Kyle
          Do you have a way to check the density of your films? This problem can also happen because the black isn t dense enough in your film negatives. If not, the
          Message 4 of 12 , Sep 12, 2009
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            Do you have a way to check the density of your films? This problem can also
            happen because the black isn't dense enough in your film negatives. If not,
            the down-and-dirty test is: can you see an overhead light through the neg if
            you hold it up above your head? If you see the lightbulb or lightbulb
            filament through the film it's not dense enough.
            Hope this helps,
            Harold

            --
            ---
            Boxcar Press
            501 W. Fayette St. #222
            Syracuse, NY 13204
            www.boxcarpress.com


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • cmcgarr1957
            Kyle, I don t have way to check the density of the film an the film output bureau has been pretty consistent. I ll ask on Monday because this maybe the
            Message 5 of 12 , Sep 13, 2009
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              Kyle,

              I don't have way to check the density of the film an the film output bureau has been pretty consistent. I'll ask on Monday because this maybe the problem. The longer washout helped but the counters are still not open enough.

              Casey
              iLP
            • typetom@aol.com
              Hi Casey, I have not worked with polymer plates that involve back exposure, but it sounds like over-exposure to me. For my steel-backed plates, the washout
              Message 6 of 12 , Sep 13, 2009
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                Hi Casey,
                I have not worked with polymer plates that involve back exposure, but it
                sounds like over-exposure to me. For my steel-backed plates, the washout time
                is critical only when it is too long - when the time in the water allows
                the base of the polymer to absorb too much water and thus allows the
                hardened surface to separate and move or break off. More time in washout does not
                dissolve material that has been hardened.

                Too much exposure time, however, will harden more of the base and can fill
                counters or white lines in a reverse image, because the base material
                swells out from the face of the exposed image as it has time to harden more of
                the base polymer, as the UV light continues to penetrate indirectly to areas
                normally protected by the negative - the surface of a letter will look
                correct, but the sides and counters will be swollen if it is over-exposed.

                Could be emulsion density, but it is possible to work around even weak
                emulsion by under-exposure.
                Best wishes,
                Tom

                Tom Parson/ Now It's Up To You
                157 S Logan, Denver CO 80209
                (303) 777-8951 home & printshop
                (720) 480-5358 cellphone
                _typetom@..._ (mailto:typetom@...)



                In a message dated 9/13/2009 8:20:14 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
                casey@... writes:

                Kyle,

                I don't have way to check the density of the film an the film output
                bureau has been pretty consistent. I'll ask on Monday because this maybe the
                problem. The longer washout helped but the counters are still not open enough.

                Casey
                iLP











                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Austin Jones
                From what I am reading of this thread, I can only conclude that there are many people out there who are using photopolymer on a daily basis. This leads to the
                Message 7 of 12 , Sep 13, 2009
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                  From what I am reading of this thread, I can only conclude that there are
                  many people out there who are using photopolymer on a daily basis. This
                  leads to the common practice of developing a procedure which works. The
                  problem with this practice is that things change which you are not aware of.
                  I do not work much with film today but when I did the slightest change in
                  any of the steps could cause major changes in the outcome. Film, developer,
                  water, as well as environment can have a major impact on the total process.

                  I would suggest that even though you are getting your negs from the same
                  service, it is highly likely that they have changed suppliers or their
                  supplier may have changed their supplier. All of the other things involved
                  should be considered one at a time.

                  When a procedure works then stops working it is sometimes difficult to
                  remember how the procedure was developed. It is just done by habit and you
                  don't remember why some of the steps are important or how you came up with
                  that conclusion.

                  I am just suggesting that the procedure be revisited and considered step by
                  step and make no assumptions. Only make one change at a time to eliminate
                  possibilities.

                  I know film processing is an art which has been mechanized to the point that
                  no one needs to make note today.

                  I hope this is a help in finding the cause of the change.

                  tks

                  Austin Jones
                  prints by AJ
                  austin@...
                  http://printsbyaj.com
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "cmcgarr1957" <casey@...>
                  To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 10:19 AM
                  Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Counters not washing out


                  > Kyle,
                  >
                  > I don't have way to check the density of the film an the film output
                  > bureau has been pretty consistent. I'll ask on Monday because this maybe
                  > the problem. The longer washout helped but the counters are still not open
                  > enough.
                  >
                  > Casey
                  > iLP
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • cmcgarr1957
                  Thanks Austin, very good points. I visited with the film output business and their densities were light reading around 2.5. They output new film and I m back
                  Message 8 of 12 , Sep 14, 2009
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                    Thanks Austin, very good points.

                    I visited with the film output business and their densities were light reading around 2.5. They output new film and I'm back in business making good plates.

                    Thanks for all the recommendations everyone gave me.

                    Casey
                    iLP
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