Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Digital as a Means to an End...

Expand Messages
  • Austin Jones
    I really have to disagree with you on this one. There have always been artists and buyers interested in the process. There are buyers who are only interested
    Message 1 of 18 , Aug 1, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      I really have to disagree with you on this one. There have always been
      artists and buyers interested in the process. There are buyers who are only
      interested in getting something CHEAP. There have always been producers
      willing to give it to them. Just because there has always been a market for
      and producers willing to provide the cheap product, does not mean there is
      no market for the product which strives to maintain the process.

      As long as the producer is not attempting to mislead the buyer with the
      product I have no problem. However, when there is an attempt to promote a
      product as something other than what it really is, I am prone to speak up.

      So, I am saying that I handset miniature books, broadsides, and historical
      reprints because there are people out there who can appreciate the
      difference in the product. If you don't want to do that, fine. But don't try
      to convince yourself or others that no one cares.

      tks

      Austin Jones
      prints by AJ
      austin@...
      http://printsbyaj.com
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "rdziesing" <rziesing@...>
      To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 11:15 AM
      Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Digital as a Means to an End...


      > You know....I'm just not convinced that ANYone cares about the hours you
      > spent slumped over a table straining your eyes and cursing your hand eye
      > coordination.
      >
      > Isn't the real purpose of any craft to produce the best possible product
      > at the most reasonable price possible?
      >
      > I set my name and address by hand once. That was the first and final time
      > I had any desire to do so.
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
    • Steve Robison
      To use a metaphor... Some people walk Some people ride a bike Some people drive a car Some people take the train Some people fly Each process (method)
      Message 2 of 18 , Aug 2, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        To use a metaphor...

        Some people walk
        Some people ride a bike
        Some people drive a car
        Some people take the train
        Some people fly

        Each process (method) eventually gets you where you want to go, and each has it's own merits and limitations, followers and detractors.

        What's important for some is the journey, and for others the destination, and still others a little bit of both.

        Each printing method currently known has a similar spectrum of possibilities. Here are a few...

        Some people write(wrote) on clay tablets
        Some people write and draw with pencil
        Some people write and draw with pen and ink
        Some people draw on stones and etch images with acid
        Some people carve in metal to make grooves
        Some people carve in wood or linoleum to leave raised relief images
        Some people cast individual letters in metal type
        Some people make individual letter in wood type
        Some people hand set metal type and wood type
        Some people machine set metal type in full lines
        Some people draw by hand
        Some people print images letterpress using copper, zinc or magnesium plates
        Some people design and compose on the computer and print the images letterpress using etched copper, zinc, magnesium or photopolymer plates
        Some people take photographic images of their composition and use offset lithography to transfer those images on to paper
        Some people ditto
        Some people mimeograph
        Some people xerox or use high speed digital presses
        Some people use telepathy to transfer images from one mind to the other

        Which one of the above is the "best" method is determined by the practitioner and the end user and how they each want to enjoy the journey and/or get to the destination.

        That tension is always in flux. It is always dependent on context. It is always changing. It is the dance between the two that will determine what's best.

        Steve Robison
        The Robison Press
        Belmont, CA - 25 miles south of San Francisco
        robisonsteve@...


        --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Austin Jones <austin@...> wrote:

        > From: Austin Jones <austin@...>
        > Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Digital as a Means to an End...
        > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 11:54 AM
        > I really have to disagree with you on
        > this one. There have always been
        > artists and buyers interested in the process. There are
        > buyers who are only
        > interested in getting something CHEAP. There have always
        > been producers
        > willing to give it to them. Just because there has always
        > been a market for
        > and producers willing to provide the cheap product, does
        > not mean there is
        > no market for the product which strives to maintain the
        > process.
        >
        > As long as the producer is not attempting to mislead the
        > buyer with the
        > product I have no problem. However, when there is an
        > attempt to promote a
        > product as something other than what it really is, I am
        > prone to speak up.
        >
        > So, I am saying that I handset miniature books, broadsides,
        > and historical
        > reprints because there are people out there who can
        > appreciate the
        > difference in the product. If you don't want to do that,
        > fine. But don't try
        > to convince yourself or others that no one cares.
        >
        > tks
        >
        > Austin Jones
        > prints by AJ
        > austin@...
        > http://printsbyaj.com
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: "rdziesing" <rziesing@...>
        > To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
        > Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 11:15 AM
        > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Digital as a Means to an
        > End...
        >
        >
        > > You know....I'm just not convinced that ANYone cares
        > about the hours you
        > > spent slumped over a table straining your eyes and
        > cursing your hand eye
        > > coordination.
        > >
        > > Isn't the real purpose of any craft to produce the
        > best possible product
        > > at the most reasonable price possible?
        > >
        > > I set my name and address by hand once. That was the
        > first and final time
        > > I had any desire to do so.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >     mailto:PPLetterpress-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >
      • Austin Jones
        Yep! You can please All of the People Some of the Time You can please Some of the People All of the Time But, You can t Please All of the People All of the
        Message 3 of 18 , Aug 2, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Yep!

          You can please All of the People Some of the Time
          You can please Some of the People All of the Time
          But, You can't Please All of the People All of the Time.

          tks

          Austin Jones
          prints by AJ
          austin@...
          http://printsbyaj.com
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Steve Robison" <robisonsteve@...>
          To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 4:50 AM
          Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Digital as a Means to an End...


          >
          > To use a metaphor...
          >
          > Some people walk
          > Some people ride a bike
          > Some people drive a car
          > Some people take the train
          > Some people fly
          >
          > Each process (method) eventually gets you where you want to go, and each
          > has it's own merits and limitations, followers and detractors.
          >
          > What's important for some is the journey, and for others the destination,
          > and still others a little bit of both.
          >
          > Each printing method currently known has a similar spectrum of
          > possibilities. Here are a few...
          >
          > Some people write(wrote) on clay tablets
          > Some people write and draw with pencil
          > Some people write and draw with pen and ink
          > Some people draw on stones and etch images with acid
          > Some people carve in metal to make grooves
          > Some people carve in wood or linoleum to leave raised relief images
          > Some people cast individual letters in metal type
          > Some people make individual letter in wood type
          > Some people hand set metal type and wood type
          > Some people machine set metal type in full lines
          > Some people draw by hand
          > Some people print images letterpress using copper, zinc or magnesium
          > plates
          > Some people design and compose on the computer and print the images
          > letterpress using etched copper, zinc, magnesium or photopolymer plates
          > Some people take photographic images of their composition and use offset
          > lithography to transfer those images on to paper
          > Some people ditto
          > Some people mimeograph
          > Some people xerox or use high speed digital presses
          > Some people use telepathy to transfer images from one mind to the other
          >
          > Which one of the above is the "best" method is determined by the
          > practitioner and the end user and how they each want to enjoy the journey
          > and/or get to the destination.
          >
          > That tension is always in flux. It is always dependent on context. It is
          > always changing. It is the dance between the two that will determine
          > what's best.
          >
          > Steve Robison
          > The Robison Press
          > Belmont, CA - 25 miles south of San Francisco
          > robisonsteve@...
          >
          >
          > --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Austin Jones <austin@...> wrote:
          >
          >> From: Austin Jones <austin@...>
          >> Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Digital as a Means to an End...
          >> To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
          >> Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 11:54 AM
          >> I really have to disagree with you on
          >> this one. There have always been
          >> artists and buyers interested in the process. There are
          >> buyers who are only
          >> interested in getting something CHEAP. There have always
          >> been producers
          >> willing to give it to them. Just because there has always
          >> been a market for
          >> and producers willing to provide the cheap product, does
          >> not mean there is
          >> no market for the product which strives to maintain the
          >> process.
          >>
          >> As long as the producer is not attempting to mislead the
          >> buyer with the
          >> product I have no problem. However, when there is an
          >> attempt to promote a
          >> product as something other than what it really is, I am
          >> prone to speak up.
          >>
          >> So, I am saying that I handset miniature books, broadsides,
          >> and historical
          >> reprints because there are people out there who can
          >> appreciate the
          >> difference in the product. If you don't want to do that,
          >> fine. But don't try
          >> to convince yourself or others that no one cares.
          >>
          >> tks
          >>
          >> Austin Jones
          >> prints by AJ
          >> austin@...
          >> http://printsbyaj.com
          >> ----- Original Message -----
          >> From: "rdziesing" <rziesing@...>
          >> To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
          >> Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 11:15 AM
          >> Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Digital as a Means to an
          >> End...
          >>
          >>
          >> > You know....I'm just not convinced that ANYone cares
          >> about the hours you
          >> > spent slumped over a table straining your eyes and
          >> cursing your hand eye
          >> > coordination.
          >> >
          >> > Isn't the real purpose of any craft to produce the
          >> best possible product
          >> > at the most reasonable price possible?
          >> >
          >> > I set my name and address by hand once. That was the
          >> first and final time
          >> > I had any desire to do so.
          >> >
          >> >
          >> >
          >> > ------------------------------------
          >> >
          >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >> >
          >> >
          >> >
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >> ------------------------------------
          >>
          >> Yahoo! Groups Links
          >>
          >>
          >> mailto:PPLetterpress-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
          >>
          >>
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Michael Babcock
          ... no strain; no cursing. and yes, many people care about real work, well done. perhaps since you can t to it, you can t know it. ... no. think again. rather,
          Message 4 of 18 , Aug 2, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "rdziesing" <rziesing@...> wrote:
            >
            > You know....I'm just not convinced that ANYone cares about the hours you spent slumped over a table straining your eyes and cursing your hand eye coordination.

            no strain; no cursing.

            and yes, many people care about real work, well done. perhaps since you can't to it, you can't know it.

            >
            > Isn't the real purpose of any craft to produce the best possible product at the most reasonable price possible?

            no. think again. rather, just think.

            >
            > I set my name and address by hand once. That was the first and final time I had any desire to do so.
            >

            lame. you clearly aren't cut out for letterpress. stop pretending now.
          • Gerald Lange
            I heard this on the radio the other day: All beer is good. But some beer is better. Some guy talking about his dad, who was involved in the business.
            Message 5 of 18 , Aug 2, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              I heard this on the radio the other day: "All beer is good. But some
              beer is better." Some guy talking about his dad, who was involved in the
              business.

              Obviously folks value quality and the well crafted, and the better made.
              This is commonplace in everyday life, in our everyday values. I have
              never quite understood why there is such a particularly overt resistance
              to this though in the general communications that transverse the
              letterpress world.

              Gerald
              http://BielerPress.blogspot.com


              Michael Babcock wrote:
              > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "rdziesing" <rziesing@...> wrote:
              >
              >> You know....I'm just not convinced that ANYone cares about the hours you spent slumped over a table straining your eyes and cursing your hand eye coordination.
              >>
              >
              > no strain; no cursing.
              >
              > and yes, many people care about real work, well done. perhaps since you can't to it, you can't know it.
              >
              >
              >> Isn't the real purpose of any craft to produce the best possible product at the most reasonable price possible?
              >>
              >
              > no. think again. rather, just think.
              >
              >
              >> I set my name and address by hand once. That was the first and final time I had any desire to do so.
              >>
              >>
              >
              > lame. you clearly aren't cut out for letterpress. stop pretending now.
              >
              >
              >
            • leorawest
              Michael- Your mission and type collection are impressive; but if you ve come to the photo polymer list only to insult those of us who use this method and those
              Message 6 of 18 , Aug 3, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                Michael-
                Your mission and type collection are impressive; but if you've come to the photo polymer list only to insult those of us who use this method and those of us who do both, maybe you're in the wrong forum.
                Leora
              • Austin Jones
                I think Gerald went out of his way to try to be nice to everyone commenting on this issue. Lots of people have tried to be philosophical about the various
                Message 7 of 18 , Aug 3, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  I think Gerald went out of his way to try to be nice to everyone commenting
                  on this issue. Lots of people have tried to be philosophical about the
                  various wishes of different people. No one needs to be criticized for having
                  an opinion, no matter what the opinion. Lets all be the tolerant ones we
                  want everyone else to be.

                  tks

                  Austin Jones
                  prints by AJ
                  austin@...
                  http://printsbyaj.com
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "leorawest" <leorawest@...>
                  To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:52 PM
                  Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Digital as a Means to an End...


                  > Michael-
                  > Your mission and type collection are impressive; but if you've come to
                  > the photo polymer list only to insult those of us who use this method and
                  > those of us who do both, maybe you're in the wrong forum.
                  > Leora
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Gerald Lange
                  In email discourse, it seems best if one takes the ancient Greek approach to logic/argument. One may, and should, question an idea that is perceived to be
                  Message 8 of 18 , Aug 3, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    In email discourse, it seems best if one takes the ancient Greek approach to logic/argument. One may, and should, question an idea that is perceived to be errant, but one should never attack the character of the person who uttered it as a part of the questioning. That serves no fruitful purpose.

                    Gerald
                    http://bielerpress.blogspot.com

                    --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Austin Jones" <austin@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I think Gerald went out of his way to try to be nice to everyone commenting
                    > on this issue. Lots of people have tried to be philosophical about the
                    > various wishes of different people. No one needs to be criticized for having
                    > an opinion, no matter what the opinion. Lets all be the tolerant ones we
                    > want everyone else to be.
                    >
                    > tks
                    >
                    > Austin Jones
                    > prints by AJ
                    > austin@...
                    > http://printsbyaj.com
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: "leorawest" <leorawest@...>
                    > To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:52 PM
                    > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Digital as a Means to an End...
                    >
                    >
                    > > Michael-
                    > > Your mission and type collection are impressive; but if you've come to
                    > > the photo polymer list only to insult those of us who use this method and
                    > > those of us who do both, maybe you're in the wrong forum.
                    > > Leora
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > ------------------------------------
                    > >
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • Casey McGarr
                    I felt the same way the first time I set some 10 pt type and it fell. Then picked the type back up and set it the correct way so it wouldn t fall. There is a
                    Message 9 of 18 , Aug 4, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I felt the same way the first time I set some 10 pt type and it fell. Then picked the type back up and set it the correct way so it wouldn't fall.

                      There is a lot of satisfaction setting type by hand. Now granted I don't set every job I print by handset type but when I do its an accomplishment. Really an accomplishment when I have all the sorts, LOL.

                      However, thank you for photopolymer. What is not set by hand goes digital and I love it. Since I'm a graphic designer the opportunity to experiment with images and type is also very satisfying.

                      I have a few friends here in the Dallas area that only print photopolymer and another group of friends that handset the type. As long as we both get the final piece printed in the way it was envisioned then great for all of us.

                      Casey
                      http://www.inkylipspress.com


                      --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "rdziesing" <rziesing@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > You know....I'm just not convinced that ANYone cares about the hours you spent slumped over a table straining your eyes and cursing your hand eye coordination.
                      >
                      > Isn't the real purpose of any craft to produce the best possible product at the most reasonable price possible?
                      >
                      > I set my name and address by hand once. That was the first and final time I had any desire to do so.
                      >
                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.