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Re: [PPLetterpress] Service bureau question

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  • Harold Kyle
    ... It depends on the rip at your service bureau. More recent rips can handle native ID files. Talk with your people. In my case, the service bureau can t
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 2, 2002
      On 12/1/02 10:38 PM, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@...> wrote:
      > My question is: Are folks still experiencing problems with this
      > software and OpenType settings at service bureaus?. If so, is it best
      > to generate as a PDF? (best to generate as PDF anyway?) and if so, any
      > recommendations as to PDF settings for high-end output?

      It depends on the rip at your service bureau. More recent rips can handle
      native ID files. Talk with your people. In my case, the service bureau can't
      output ID and gets scared to output PDFs; our workaround has been to export
      EPS files to place in Quark. PDFs have drawbacks from their perspective.

      For PDF distilling from ID2 I've had the best luck with Export>PDF. The
      PressReady setting works fine for me. Again, check with the service bureau.
      Ask for the specifics of their preferred profile. Then you can File>PDF
      Styles...>New to make a custom setting for their rip.

      I've never had conflicts outputting or using OpenType fonts from any
      app--they behave just like T1 fonts (except if you have ID2, in which case
      they are significantly different!). Have others experienced problems?

      Have fun!
      Harold

      ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
      Boxcar Press
      Fine Printing and Binding ~ Digital Letterpress Supplies
      640 Fellows Avenue ~ Syracuse, NY 13210
      315-473-0930 ~ phone and fax
      www.boxcarpress.com
      ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
    • Gerald Lange
      ... Interesting about using OpenType in other apps. I think they actually behave like TT fonts rather than T1 though. Similar to the old GX fonts. Was able to
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 2, 2002
        >
        >
        >I've never had conflicts outputting or using OpenType fonts from any
        >app--they behave just like T1 fonts (except if you have ID2, in which case
        >they are significantly different!). Have others experienced problems?
        >
        >Have fun!
        >Harold
        >
        >
        Interesting about using OpenType in other apps. I think they actually
        behave like TT fonts rather than T1 though. Similar to the old GX fonts.
        Was able to convert those all to T1 with Fontographer because it saw
        them as TT. Haven't tried this on OT fonts but then again why bother.
        I've used OT in PageMaker (where you only have access to the basic 256
        character set from what I can tell). But I was unable to print out to my
        PostScript laser printer (PS errors). Don't know if generating as an EPS
        or PDF would solve that problem. Have to try it.

        Thanks for the info on the PDF settings.

        FontLab 4.5 for the Mac apparently was released yesterday. I understand
        that you can modify and create OT fonts with it. Hopeful sign. Most of
        the Adobe Pro stuff is a bit too generically heavy to use for letterpress.

        Gerald

        >
        >
      • Dan Franklin
        A few comments about InDesign, PDFs, OpenType fonts, service bureaus, ... InDESIGN If I had a choice, I would use InDesign all the time. Unfortunately, most
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 2, 2002
          A few comments about InDesign, PDFs, OpenType fonts, service bureaus,
          and book printers:

          -------------------
          InDESIGN If I had a choice, I would use InDesign all the time.
          Unfortunately, most of the book publishers we work for require Quark
          files--they have Quark in house and want to be able to "tweak" the
          files themselves. Therefore, we must use Quark for most of our work.

          For service bureau work (which, I realize, is the primary topic
          here--getting negatives made to produce photopolymer plates): Of the
          two services we use, only one has InDesign and is willing to use it,
          but I send them PDFs anyway.

          -------------------
          PDFs It is important, as others have said, to get exact
          specifications from the prepress department that will be making your
          negatives. Every book printer and service bureau I know has slightly
          different requirements; some care about Quark settings for outputting
          Postscript files (prior to making PDFs), some don't care about these
          settings at all as long as you embed your fonts. Everyone has
          specific requirements for Acrobat Distiller settings.

          When producing PDFs for a book printer, I figure it will take me
          about an hour to configure the Quark printer style(s) and Distiller
          settings before producing the Postscript/PDF files.

          Most book printers prefer PDFs to native Quark files, and some even
          charge $1-$2 per page if the files are native instead of PDF.

          Because I often make up new fonts using Fontographer for a particular
          book, I feel safer if I produce PDFs with embedded fonts. (No matter
          what fonts you use, I think it is never safe to not embed fonts when
          producing PDFs.)

          -------------------
          OPENTYPE FONTS I have used these for a couple of books and have
          been well pleased. For one of these I used Warnock, a face designed
          by Robert Slimbach in honor of one of Adobe's founders and available
          only as an OpenType face. I have to say, it's a blast to specify
          old-style figures as a paragraph style-sheet feature; to know that
          designating a group of characters as small caps will automatically
          trigger true small caps, not the percentage-of-height-and-width
          version; to be able to select swash and other alternate characters
          without switching fonts; and to use fonts designed for specific
          point-size ranges, like footnotes, text, and display.

          (I still prefer, and use, Type 1 Multiple Master fonts with a
          design-size axis when I want to control this area; I've found it
          difficult to use OpenType Pro fonts in some cases for this purpose.

          (Further: Although there are general warnings against using created
          instances of Multiple Master fonts, I've not had a book printer
          refuse such files--or screw them up, for that matter.)

          Be aware that not all the OpenType fonts that Adobe is offering have
          true small caps or old-style figures. I believe that typefaces like
          Bembo, which had Expert font sets in Postscript Type 1 fonts, do have
          these extra characters. (And this is true of most book typefaces
          designed originally for metal.)

          (I've found that most Monotype metal faces that have been done into
          digital --Bell comes to mind--print nicely in letterpress. When
          creating the digital version, Monotype must have used the original
          drawings or cast faces of the type, which of course took into account
          ink creep. This makes them excellent for letterpress, but a bit
          spindly for offset.)
        • Linnea Lundquist
          Gerald: I have had no problems with sending InDesign files to my local service bureau for about the past 18 months. In the early days, they were pros about
          Message 4 of 7 , Dec 2, 2002
            Gerald:

            I have had no problems with sending InDesign files to my local service
            bureau for about the past 18 months. In the early days, they were "pros"
            about it and welcomed the challenge. Now it's business as usual. I did have
            a problem a few months ago with a printer (offset) who went straight to
            plate-- he didn't mind the InDesign file, but he had the heebeejeebees about
            OpenType fonts and tried to talk me out of using them. In that case, I sent
            a pdf with the OpenType fonts embedded. I usually make my PDFs in Distiller,
            the resulting PDF seems to be sturdier than making it by exporting as pdf
            from within InDesign or using the Create Adobe PDF thingie. In the InDesign
            print dialog box, set your printer to "PostScript file", so that when you
            print, you get a .ps file. Open that .ps file in Distiller, which makes the
            PDF. Distiller has job options for fonts, color, compression, etc. The color
            and compression settings are a gordian knot and if I ever need to change
            them to something other than default I will need to dig out the Acrobat
            Classroom-in-a-Book and figure them out. The font embedding settings,
            however, are pretty straightforward, but be sure you DO embed the fonts and
            your font licenses allow embedding. If you don't embed the fonts, and your
            service bureau doesn't have your fonts on their system, you will get the
            dreaded Adobe Sans or Adobe Serif (designed by Fred Brady, by the way-- it's
            a generic-looking MM font that tries to simulate your missing font. It's
            actually a technical tour-de-force and I only say "dreaded" because you
            really don't want to see it appear when you're expecting something lovely
            like Caflisch Script or Silentium or Wilhelm Klingspor Schrift).

            I like InDesign *particularly* for the flexibility of working with OpenType
            fonts, and for proofing the fonts I build myself with many alternate
            characters.

            xyz : Linnea
          • Mats Broberg
            ... Gerald, With ver. 2.0.1, InDesign is pretty stable and accepted by most service bureaus on this side of the puddle, although many bureaus are switching
            Message 5 of 7 , Dec 3, 2002
              > My question is: Are folks still experiencing problems with
              > this software and OpenType settings at service bureaus?. If
              > so, is it best to generate as a PDF? (best to generate as PDF
              > anyway?) and if so, any recommendations as to PDF settings
              > for high-end output?

              Gerald,

              With ver. 2.0.1, InDesign is pretty stable and accepted by most service
              bureaus on this side of the puddle, although many bureaus are switching
              entirely to PDF workflows anyway, since trapping & four-colour
              separation is supported and the embedding of typefaces and high-res
              images make life alot easier. However, be cautious if you make
              last-minute corrections in the PDF file itself. Although this is a
              feature Adobe talks alot about, I've heard more than once that Acrobat
              makes incorrect extraction of the typeface that makes the new word set
              in a default system typeface, despite correct embedding (no subsetting).

              Regarding PDF settings, I would recommend installing the Distiller
              printer and use it for all jobs. It features a few different default
              *.joboption files - Screen, Print, eBook and Press etc., and a good
              start is the Press *.joboption. However, it needs some tweaking since
              some of the settings are on the low side. For example, all line drawings
              above 1800 dpi are downsampled to 1200 dpi, which I don't think is
              enough for high-quality imagesetter negatives. Grayscale images are
              downsampled to 300 dpi which would be sufficient for 150 lpi screening -
              sufficient when printing grayscales from photpolymer plates but not e.g.
              waterless offset.

              Best regards,
              Mats Broberg

              Stockholm, Sweden
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