Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [PPLetterpress] Service bureau question

Expand Messages
  • Brian Allen
    Gerald - I recently asked a local service bureau if they took InDesign 2 files and they replied that they wanted them as pdf files. I haven t pursued it any
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 1, 2002
    • 0 Attachment
      Gerald -
      I recently asked a local service bureau if they took InDesign 2 files and
      they replied that they wanted them as pdf files. I haven't pursued it any
      further yet, so can't say anything more.
      Brian
      Mountain View, California
      ----
      on 12/1/02 7:38 PM, Gerald Lange at bieler@... wrote:

      > Hi folks
      >
      > I just ventured over to InDesign (2.01). Wow.
      >
      > My question is: Are folks still experiencing problems with this
      > software and OpenType settings at service bureaus?. If so, is it best
      > to generate as a PDF? (best to generate as PDF anyway?) and if so, any
      > recommendations as to PDF settings for high-end output?
      >
      > Gerald
      >
      >
      >
      > • To respond to a post or post a message to the membership:
      > PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
      > • Encountering problems? contact:
      > PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
      > • To unsubscribe:
      > PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
    • Harold Kyle
      ... It depends on the rip at your service bureau. More recent rips can handle native ID files. Talk with your people. In my case, the service bureau can t
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 2, 2002
      • 0 Attachment
        On 12/1/02 10:38 PM, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@...> wrote:
        > My question is: Are folks still experiencing problems with this
        > software and OpenType settings at service bureaus?. If so, is it best
        > to generate as a PDF? (best to generate as PDF anyway?) and if so, any
        > recommendations as to PDF settings for high-end output?

        It depends on the rip at your service bureau. More recent rips can handle
        native ID files. Talk with your people. In my case, the service bureau can't
        output ID and gets scared to output PDFs; our workaround has been to export
        EPS files to place in Quark. PDFs have drawbacks from their perspective.

        For PDF distilling from ID2 I've had the best luck with Export>PDF. The
        PressReady setting works fine for me. Again, check with the service bureau.
        Ask for the specifics of their preferred profile. Then you can File>PDF
        Styles...>New to make a custom setting for their rip.

        I've never had conflicts outputting or using OpenType fonts from any
        app--they behave just like T1 fonts (except if you have ID2, in which case
        they are significantly different!). Have others experienced problems?

        Have fun!
        Harold

        ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
        Boxcar Press
        Fine Printing and Binding ~ Digital Letterpress Supplies
        640 Fellows Avenue ~ Syracuse, NY 13210
        315-473-0930 ~ phone and fax
        www.boxcarpress.com
        ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
      • Gerald Lange
        ... Interesting about using OpenType in other apps. I think they actually behave like TT fonts rather than T1 though. Similar to the old GX fonts. Was able to
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 2, 2002
        • 0 Attachment
          >
          >
          >I've never had conflicts outputting or using OpenType fonts from any
          >app--they behave just like T1 fonts (except if you have ID2, in which case
          >they are significantly different!). Have others experienced problems?
          >
          >Have fun!
          >Harold
          >
          >
          Interesting about using OpenType in other apps. I think they actually
          behave like TT fonts rather than T1 though. Similar to the old GX fonts.
          Was able to convert those all to T1 with Fontographer because it saw
          them as TT. Haven't tried this on OT fonts but then again why bother.
          I've used OT in PageMaker (where you only have access to the basic 256
          character set from what I can tell). But I was unable to print out to my
          PostScript laser printer (PS errors). Don't know if generating as an EPS
          or PDF would solve that problem. Have to try it.

          Thanks for the info on the PDF settings.

          FontLab 4.5 for the Mac apparently was released yesterday. I understand
          that you can modify and create OT fonts with it. Hopeful sign. Most of
          the Adobe Pro stuff is a bit too generically heavy to use for letterpress.

          Gerald

          >
          >
        • Dan Franklin
          A few comments about InDesign, PDFs, OpenType fonts, service bureaus, ... InDESIGN If I had a choice, I would use InDesign all the time. Unfortunately, most
          Message 4 of 7 , Dec 2, 2002
          • 0 Attachment
            A few comments about InDesign, PDFs, OpenType fonts, service bureaus,
            and book printers:

            -------------------
            InDESIGN If I had a choice, I would use InDesign all the time.
            Unfortunately, most of the book publishers we work for require Quark
            files--they have Quark in house and want to be able to "tweak" the
            files themselves. Therefore, we must use Quark for most of our work.

            For service bureau work (which, I realize, is the primary topic
            here--getting negatives made to produce photopolymer plates): Of the
            two services we use, only one has InDesign and is willing to use it,
            but I send them PDFs anyway.

            -------------------
            PDFs It is important, as others have said, to get exact
            specifications from the prepress department that will be making your
            negatives. Every book printer and service bureau I know has slightly
            different requirements; some care about Quark settings for outputting
            Postscript files (prior to making PDFs), some don't care about these
            settings at all as long as you embed your fonts. Everyone has
            specific requirements for Acrobat Distiller settings.

            When producing PDFs for a book printer, I figure it will take me
            about an hour to configure the Quark printer style(s) and Distiller
            settings before producing the Postscript/PDF files.

            Most book printers prefer PDFs to native Quark files, and some even
            charge $1-$2 per page if the files are native instead of PDF.

            Because I often make up new fonts using Fontographer for a particular
            book, I feel safer if I produce PDFs with embedded fonts. (No matter
            what fonts you use, I think it is never safe to not embed fonts when
            producing PDFs.)

            -------------------
            OPENTYPE FONTS I have used these for a couple of books and have
            been well pleased. For one of these I used Warnock, a face designed
            by Robert Slimbach in honor of one of Adobe's founders and available
            only as an OpenType face. I have to say, it's a blast to specify
            old-style figures as a paragraph style-sheet feature; to know that
            designating a group of characters as small caps will automatically
            trigger true small caps, not the percentage-of-height-and-width
            version; to be able to select swash and other alternate characters
            without switching fonts; and to use fonts designed for specific
            point-size ranges, like footnotes, text, and display.

            (I still prefer, and use, Type 1 Multiple Master fonts with a
            design-size axis when I want to control this area; I've found it
            difficult to use OpenType Pro fonts in some cases for this purpose.

            (Further: Although there are general warnings against using created
            instances of Multiple Master fonts, I've not had a book printer
            refuse such files--or screw them up, for that matter.)

            Be aware that not all the OpenType fonts that Adobe is offering have
            true small caps or old-style figures. I believe that typefaces like
            Bembo, which had Expert font sets in Postscript Type 1 fonts, do have
            these extra characters. (And this is true of most book typefaces
            designed originally for metal.)

            (I've found that most Monotype metal faces that have been done into
            digital --Bell comes to mind--print nicely in letterpress. When
            creating the digital version, Monotype must have used the original
            drawings or cast faces of the type, which of course took into account
            ink creep. This makes them excellent for letterpress, but a bit
            spindly for offset.)
          • Linnea Lundquist
            Gerald: I have had no problems with sending InDesign files to my local service bureau for about the past 18 months. In the early days, they were pros about
            Message 5 of 7 , Dec 2, 2002
            • 0 Attachment
              Gerald:

              I have had no problems with sending InDesign files to my local service
              bureau for about the past 18 months. In the early days, they were "pros"
              about it and welcomed the challenge. Now it's business as usual. I did have
              a problem a few months ago with a printer (offset) who went straight to
              plate-- he didn't mind the InDesign file, but he had the heebeejeebees about
              OpenType fonts and tried to talk me out of using them. In that case, I sent
              a pdf with the OpenType fonts embedded. I usually make my PDFs in Distiller,
              the resulting PDF seems to be sturdier than making it by exporting as pdf
              from within InDesign or using the Create Adobe PDF thingie. In the InDesign
              print dialog box, set your printer to "PostScript file", so that when you
              print, you get a .ps file. Open that .ps file in Distiller, which makes the
              PDF. Distiller has job options for fonts, color, compression, etc. The color
              and compression settings are a gordian knot and if I ever need to change
              them to something other than default I will need to dig out the Acrobat
              Classroom-in-a-Book and figure them out. The font embedding settings,
              however, are pretty straightforward, but be sure you DO embed the fonts and
              your font licenses allow embedding. If you don't embed the fonts, and your
              service bureau doesn't have your fonts on their system, you will get the
              dreaded Adobe Sans or Adobe Serif (designed by Fred Brady, by the way-- it's
              a generic-looking MM font that tries to simulate your missing font. It's
              actually a technical tour-de-force and I only say "dreaded" because you
              really don't want to see it appear when you're expecting something lovely
              like Caflisch Script or Silentium or Wilhelm Klingspor Schrift).

              I like InDesign *particularly* for the flexibility of working with OpenType
              fonts, and for proofing the fonts I build myself with many alternate
              characters.

              xyz : Linnea
            • Mats Broberg
              ... Gerald, With ver. 2.0.1, InDesign is pretty stable and accepted by most service bureaus on this side of the puddle, although many bureaus are switching
              Message 6 of 7 , Dec 3, 2002
              • 0 Attachment
                > My question is: Are folks still experiencing problems with
                > this software and OpenType settings at service bureaus?. If
                > so, is it best to generate as a PDF? (best to generate as PDF
                > anyway?) and if so, any recommendations as to PDF settings
                > for high-end output?

                Gerald,

                With ver. 2.0.1, InDesign is pretty stable and accepted by most service
                bureaus on this side of the puddle, although many bureaus are switching
                entirely to PDF workflows anyway, since trapping & four-colour
                separation is supported and the embedding of typefaces and high-res
                images make life alot easier. However, be cautious if you make
                last-minute corrections in the PDF file itself. Although this is a
                feature Adobe talks alot about, I've heard more than once that Acrobat
                makes incorrect extraction of the typeface that makes the new word set
                in a default system typeface, despite correct embedding (no subsetting).

                Regarding PDF settings, I would recommend installing the Distiller
                printer and use it for all jobs. It features a few different default
                *.joboption files - Screen, Print, eBook and Press etc., and a good
                start is the Press *.joboption. However, it needs some tweaking since
                some of the settings are on the low side. For example, all line drawings
                above 1800 dpi are downsampled to 1200 dpi, which I don't think is
                enough for high-quality imagesetter negatives. Grayscale images are
                downsampled to 300 dpi which would be sufficient for 150 lpi screening -
                sufficient when printing grayscales from photpolymer plates but not e.g.
                waterless offset.

                Best regards,
                Mats Broberg

                Stockholm, Sweden
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.