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Service bureau question

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  • Gerald Lange
    Hi folks I just ventured over to InDesign (2.01). Wow. My question is: Are folks still experiencing problems with this software and OpenType settings at
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 1, 2002
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      Hi folks

      I just ventured over to InDesign (2.01). Wow.

      My question is: Are folks still experiencing problems with this
      software and OpenType settings at service bureaus?. If so, is it best
      to generate as a PDF? (best to generate as PDF anyway?) and if so, any
      recommendations as to PDF settings for high-end output?

      Gerald
    • Brian Allen
      Gerald - I recently asked a local service bureau if they took InDesign 2 files and they replied that they wanted them as pdf files. I haven t pursued it any
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 1, 2002
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        Gerald -
        I recently asked a local service bureau if they took InDesign 2 files and
        they replied that they wanted them as pdf files. I haven't pursued it any
        further yet, so can't say anything more.
        Brian
        Mountain View, California
        ----
        on 12/1/02 7:38 PM, Gerald Lange at bieler@... wrote:

        > Hi folks
        >
        > I just ventured over to InDesign (2.01). Wow.
        >
        > My question is: Are folks still experiencing problems with this
        > software and OpenType settings at service bureaus?. If so, is it best
        > to generate as a PDF? (best to generate as PDF anyway?) and if so, any
        > recommendations as to PDF settings for high-end output?
        >
        > Gerald
        >
        >
        >
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      • Harold Kyle
        ... It depends on the rip at your service bureau. More recent rips can handle native ID files. Talk with your people. In my case, the service bureau can t
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 2, 2002
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          On 12/1/02 10:38 PM, "Gerald Lange" <bieler@...> wrote:
          > My question is: Are folks still experiencing problems with this
          > software and OpenType settings at service bureaus?. If so, is it best
          > to generate as a PDF? (best to generate as PDF anyway?) and if so, any
          > recommendations as to PDF settings for high-end output?

          It depends on the rip at your service bureau. More recent rips can handle
          native ID files. Talk with your people. In my case, the service bureau can't
          output ID and gets scared to output PDFs; our workaround has been to export
          EPS files to place in Quark. PDFs have drawbacks from their perspective.

          For PDF distilling from ID2 I've had the best luck with Export>PDF. The
          PressReady setting works fine for me. Again, check with the service bureau.
          Ask for the specifics of their preferred profile. Then you can File>PDF
          Styles...>New to make a custom setting for their rip.

          I've never had conflicts outputting or using OpenType fonts from any
          app--they behave just like T1 fonts (except if you have ID2, in which case
          they are significantly different!). Have others experienced problems?

          Have fun!
          Harold

          ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
          Boxcar Press
          Fine Printing and Binding ~ Digital Letterpress Supplies
          640 Fellows Avenue ~ Syracuse, NY 13210
          315-473-0930 ~ phone and fax
          www.boxcarpress.com
          ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
        • Gerald Lange
          ... Interesting about using OpenType in other apps. I think they actually behave like TT fonts rather than T1 though. Similar to the old GX fonts. Was able to
          Message 4 of 7 , Dec 2, 2002
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            >
            >
            >I've never had conflicts outputting or using OpenType fonts from any
            >app--they behave just like T1 fonts (except if you have ID2, in which case
            >they are significantly different!). Have others experienced problems?
            >
            >Have fun!
            >Harold
            >
            >
            Interesting about using OpenType in other apps. I think they actually
            behave like TT fonts rather than T1 though. Similar to the old GX fonts.
            Was able to convert those all to T1 with Fontographer because it saw
            them as TT. Haven't tried this on OT fonts but then again why bother.
            I've used OT in PageMaker (where you only have access to the basic 256
            character set from what I can tell). But I was unable to print out to my
            PostScript laser printer (PS errors). Don't know if generating as an EPS
            or PDF would solve that problem. Have to try it.

            Thanks for the info on the PDF settings.

            FontLab 4.5 for the Mac apparently was released yesterday. I understand
            that you can modify and create OT fonts with it. Hopeful sign. Most of
            the Adobe Pro stuff is a bit too generically heavy to use for letterpress.

            Gerald

            >
            >
          • Dan Franklin
            A few comments about InDesign, PDFs, OpenType fonts, service bureaus, ... InDESIGN If I had a choice, I would use InDesign all the time. Unfortunately, most
            Message 5 of 7 , Dec 2, 2002
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              A few comments about InDesign, PDFs, OpenType fonts, service bureaus,
              and book printers:

              -------------------
              InDESIGN If I had a choice, I would use InDesign all the time.
              Unfortunately, most of the book publishers we work for require Quark
              files--they have Quark in house and want to be able to "tweak" the
              files themselves. Therefore, we must use Quark for most of our work.

              For service bureau work (which, I realize, is the primary topic
              here--getting negatives made to produce photopolymer plates): Of the
              two services we use, only one has InDesign and is willing to use it,
              but I send them PDFs anyway.

              -------------------
              PDFs It is important, as others have said, to get exact
              specifications from the prepress department that will be making your
              negatives. Every book printer and service bureau I know has slightly
              different requirements; some care about Quark settings for outputting
              Postscript files (prior to making PDFs), some don't care about these
              settings at all as long as you embed your fonts. Everyone has
              specific requirements for Acrobat Distiller settings.

              When producing PDFs for a book printer, I figure it will take me
              about an hour to configure the Quark printer style(s) and Distiller
              settings before producing the Postscript/PDF files.

              Most book printers prefer PDFs to native Quark files, and some even
              charge $1-$2 per page if the files are native instead of PDF.

              Because I often make up new fonts using Fontographer for a particular
              book, I feel safer if I produce PDFs with embedded fonts. (No matter
              what fonts you use, I think it is never safe to not embed fonts when
              producing PDFs.)

              -------------------
              OPENTYPE FONTS I have used these for a couple of books and have
              been well pleased. For one of these I used Warnock, a face designed
              by Robert Slimbach in honor of one of Adobe's founders and available
              only as an OpenType face. I have to say, it's a blast to specify
              old-style figures as a paragraph style-sheet feature; to know that
              designating a group of characters as small caps will automatically
              trigger true small caps, not the percentage-of-height-and-width
              version; to be able to select swash and other alternate characters
              without switching fonts; and to use fonts designed for specific
              point-size ranges, like footnotes, text, and display.

              (I still prefer, and use, Type 1 Multiple Master fonts with a
              design-size axis when I want to control this area; I've found it
              difficult to use OpenType Pro fonts in some cases for this purpose.

              (Further: Although there are general warnings against using created
              instances of Multiple Master fonts, I've not had a book printer
              refuse such files--or screw them up, for that matter.)

              Be aware that not all the OpenType fonts that Adobe is offering have
              true small caps or old-style figures. I believe that typefaces like
              Bembo, which had Expert font sets in Postscript Type 1 fonts, do have
              these extra characters. (And this is true of most book typefaces
              designed originally for metal.)

              (I've found that most Monotype metal faces that have been done into
              digital --Bell comes to mind--print nicely in letterpress. When
              creating the digital version, Monotype must have used the original
              drawings or cast faces of the type, which of course took into account
              ink creep. This makes them excellent for letterpress, but a bit
              spindly for offset.)
            • Linnea Lundquist
              Gerald: I have had no problems with sending InDesign files to my local service bureau for about the past 18 months. In the early days, they were pros about
              Message 6 of 7 , Dec 2, 2002
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                Gerald:

                I have had no problems with sending InDesign files to my local service
                bureau for about the past 18 months. In the early days, they were "pros"
                about it and welcomed the challenge. Now it's business as usual. I did have
                a problem a few months ago with a printer (offset) who went straight to
                plate-- he didn't mind the InDesign file, but he had the heebeejeebees about
                OpenType fonts and tried to talk me out of using them. In that case, I sent
                a pdf with the OpenType fonts embedded. I usually make my PDFs in Distiller,
                the resulting PDF seems to be sturdier than making it by exporting as pdf
                from within InDesign or using the Create Adobe PDF thingie. In the InDesign
                print dialog box, set your printer to "PostScript file", so that when you
                print, you get a .ps file. Open that .ps file in Distiller, which makes the
                PDF. Distiller has job options for fonts, color, compression, etc. The color
                and compression settings are a gordian knot and if I ever need to change
                them to something other than default I will need to dig out the Acrobat
                Classroom-in-a-Book and figure them out. The font embedding settings,
                however, are pretty straightforward, but be sure you DO embed the fonts and
                your font licenses allow embedding. If you don't embed the fonts, and your
                service bureau doesn't have your fonts on their system, you will get the
                dreaded Adobe Sans or Adobe Serif (designed by Fred Brady, by the way-- it's
                a generic-looking MM font that tries to simulate your missing font. It's
                actually a technical tour-de-force and I only say "dreaded" because you
                really don't want to see it appear when you're expecting something lovely
                like Caflisch Script or Silentium or Wilhelm Klingspor Schrift).

                I like InDesign *particularly* for the flexibility of working with OpenType
                fonts, and for proofing the fonts I build myself with many alternate
                characters.

                xyz : Linnea
              • Mats Broberg
                ... Gerald, With ver. 2.0.1, InDesign is pretty stable and accepted by most service bureaus on this side of the puddle, although many bureaus are switching
                Message 7 of 7 , Dec 3, 2002
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                  > My question is: Are folks still experiencing problems with
                  > this software and OpenType settings at service bureaus?. If
                  > so, is it best to generate as a PDF? (best to generate as PDF
                  > anyway?) and if so, any recommendations as to PDF settings
                  > for high-end output?

                  Gerald,

                  With ver. 2.0.1, InDesign is pretty stable and accepted by most service
                  bureaus on this side of the puddle, although many bureaus are switching
                  entirely to PDF workflows anyway, since trapping & four-colour
                  separation is supported and the embedding of typefaces and high-res
                  images make life alot easier. However, be cautious if you make
                  last-minute corrections in the PDF file itself. Although this is a
                  feature Adobe talks alot about, I've heard more than once that Acrobat
                  makes incorrect extraction of the typeface that makes the new word set
                  in a default system typeface, despite correct embedding (no subsetting).

                  Regarding PDF settings, I would recommend installing the Distiller
                  printer and use it for all jobs. It features a few different default
                  *.joboption files - Screen, Print, eBook and Press etc., and a good
                  start is the Press *.joboption. However, it needs some tweaking since
                  some of the settings are on the low side. For example, all line drawings
                  above 1800 dpi are downsampled to 1200 dpi, which I don't think is
                  enough for high-quality imagesetter negatives. Grayscale images are
                  downsampled to 300 dpi which would be sufficient for 150 lpi screening -
                  sufficient when printing grayscales from photpolymer plates but not e.g.
                  waterless offset.

                  Best regards,
                  Mats Broberg

                  Stockholm, Sweden
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