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Re: [PPLetterpress] Letterpress v. Offset Inks

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  • Katie Harper
    I was also once told to cut offset inks with a bit of varnish, but have wondered then and now why I should do that as the inks seem to be loose enough as is.
    Message 1 of 16 , Nov 26, 2002
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      I was also once told to cut offset inks with a bit of varnish, but have
      wondered then and now why I should do that as the inks seem to be "loose"
      enough as is. What would the varnish do to improve things? What are the
      downsides? Can anyone explain? Thanks.




      Katie Harper
      Ars Brevis Press
      Cincinnati, OH
      513-233-9588
      http://www.arsbrevispress.com





      > From: speedgray@...
      > Reply-To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:00:26 EST
      > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Letterpress v. Offset Inks
      >
      > I have been using offset inks on letterpress for years; it works great!
      > Offset inks are formulated to resist the dampening solution in the offset
      > process, and are generally higher in pigment content than the letterpress
      > equivalent.
      >
      > Due to the heavier body of offset inks, I sometimes cut them with some 00
      > varnish to make them flow easier. Other than that, they have been my only
      > inks in the shop.
      >
      > Speed Gray, APA 736
      > The Gray Quill Press
      > Grand Rapids, MI
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >
      > ? To respond to a post or post a message to the membership:
      > PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
      > ? Encountering problems? contact:
      > PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
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      >
    • Peter Fraterdeus
      And what about magensium carbonate? I d often use this in a long ink to shorten it. Makes for a lovely matt finish in the ink also. P ... -- AzByCx DwEvFu
      Message 2 of 16 , Nov 26, 2002
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        And what about magensium carbonate?

        I'd often use this in a long ink to shorten it.
        Makes for a lovely matt finish in the ink also.

        P

        At 9:38 AM -0500 2002-11-26, Katie Harper wrote:
        >I was also once told to cut offset inks with a bit of varnish, but have
        >wondered then and now why I should do that as the inks seem to be "loose"
        >enough as is. What would the varnish do to improve things? What are the
        >downsides? Can anyone explain? Thanks.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >Katie Harper
        >Ars Brevis Press
        >Cincinnati, OH
        >513-233-9588
        >http://www.arsbrevispress.com
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >> From: speedgray@...
        >> Reply-To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
        >> Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:00:26 EST
        >> To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
        >> Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Letterpress v. Offset Inks
        >>
        >> I have been using offset inks on letterpress for years; it works great!
        >> Offset inks are formulated to resist the dampening solution in the offset
        >> process, and are generally higher in pigment content than the letterpress
        >> equivalent.
        >>
        >> Due to the heavier body of offset inks, I sometimes cut them with some 00
        >> varnish to make them flow easier. Other than that, they have been my only
        >> inks in the shop.
        >>
        >> Speed Gray, APA 736
        >> The Gray Quill Press
        >> Grand Rapids, MI
        >>
        >>
        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> ? To respond to a post or post a message to the membership:
        >> PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
        >> ? Encountering problems? contact:
        >> PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
        >> ? To unsubscribe:
        >> PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >>
        >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >ï To respond to a post or post a message to the membership:
        >PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
        >ï Encountering problems? contact:
        >PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
        >ï To unsubscribe:
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        >
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        --
        AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa&@
        Peter Fraterdeus -:- peterf@... -:- Galena, Illinois
        dezineCafe : www.dezinecafe.com | A*IFonts : www.alphabets.com

        http://www.midsummernightstamps.com
        Magical Images from the Moon's Garden!

        http://www.semiotx.com "Words that work."(tm)

        BookSense http://www.booksense.com
        Independent local booksellers on the web.
      • Gerald Lange
        Peter and others I use magesium carbonate for most inks, and I tend to use a lot of it, but I m working with Vandercooks and dampened paper. On a C&P, printing
        Message 3 of 16 , Nov 27, 2002
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          Peter and others

          I use magesium carbonate for most inks, and I tend to use a lot of it,
          but I'm working with Vandercooks and dampened paper. On a C&P,
          printing on domestic grade papers, you would not want an ink too
          "short" or stiff. I will occasionally cut an ink with varnish but very
          cautiously. Cutting is much more of a dramatic change to the
          characteristics of an ink than adding mag carb (which only increases
          viscosity or resistance to flow). I suspect inks designated as
          letterpress are much better for machine driven presses and
          lithographic inks (especially those intended for printmaking) are
          better for hand operated presses. Commercial offset inks I have not
          tried but I suspect that if Speed and Katie have experienced success
          with them those are certainly the inks they would want to use.

          Thanks to all who responsed to my question, especially as it pertained
          to dampening. I think this may well be a matter of reaction to hydration.

          Gerald

          --- In PPLetterpress@y..., Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@d...> wrote:
          > And what about magensium carbonate?
          >
          > I'd often use this in a long ink to shorten it.
          > Makes for a lovely matt finish in the ink also.
          >
          > P
          >
          > At 9:38 AM -0500 2002-11-26, Katie Harper wrote:
          > >I was also once told to cut offset inks with a bit of varnish, but have
          > >wondered then and now why I should do that as the inks seem to be
          "loose"
          > >enough as is. What would the varnish do to improve things? What are the
          > >downsides? Can anyone explain? Thanks.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >Katie Harper
          > >Ars Brevis Press
          > >Cincinnati, OH
          > >513-233-9588
          > >http://www.arsbrevispress.com
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >> From: speedgray@a...
          > >> Reply-To: PPLetterpress@y...
          > >> Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:00:26 EST
          > >> To: PPLetterpress@y...
          > >> Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Letterpress v. Offset Inks
          > >>
          > >> I have been using offset inks on letterpress for years; it works
          great!
          > >> Offset inks are formulated to resist the dampening solution in
          the offset
          > >> process, and are generally higher in pigment content than the
          letterpress
          > >> equivalent.
          > >>
          > >> Due to the heavier body of offset inks, I sometimes cut them with
          some 00
          > >> varnish to make them flow easier. Other than that, they have been
          my only
          > >> inks in the shop.
          > >>
          > >> Speed Gray, APA 736
          > >> The Gray Quill Press
          > >> Grand Rapids, MI
          > >>
          > >>
          > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >> ? To respond to a post or post a message to the membership:
          > >> PPLetterpress@y...
          > >> ? Encountering problems? contact:
          > >> PPLetterpress-owner@y...
          > >> ? To unsubscribe:
          > >> PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@y...
          > >>
          > >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > >>
          > >>
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >ï To respond to a post or post a message to the membership:
          > >PPLetterpress@y...
          > >ï Encountering problems? contact:
          > >PPLetterpress-owner@y...
          > >ï To unsubscribe:
          > >PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@y...
          > >
          > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          > --
          > AzByCx DwEvFu GtHsIr JqKpLo MnNmOl PkQjRi ShTgUf VeWdXc YbZa&@
          > Peter Fraterdeus -:- peterf@s... -:- Galena, Illinois
          > dezineCafe : www.dezinecafe.com | A*IFonts : www.alphabets.com
          >
          > http://www.midsummernightstamps.com
          > Magical Images from the Moon's Garden!
          >
          > http://www.semiotx.com "Words that work."(tm)
          >
          > BookSense http://www.booksense.com
          > Independent local booksellers on the web.
        • Susan Angebranndt
          Recently I mixed up a PMS color that was mostly transparent white (using Vanson rubber-based ink). The color matched, but when I went to print, the result was
          Message 4 of 16 , Dec 4, 2002
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            Recently I mixed up a PMS color that was mostly transparent white
            (using Vanson rubber-based ink). The color matched, but when I went
            to print, the result was as if I had lowered my rollers -- there was
            splatter all around the type. I had just printed the plate using
            black ink with good results, and all I did was clean the press and
            re-ink. Does anyone have any advice for me? (I have a C&P pilot, so
            changing the roller height isn't really an option; I removed some
            packing from the platen but that didn't really help the splatter
            problem much)

            Thanks
            Susan Angebranndt
            susan@...
          • Shane
            Susan It would be helpful to know which PMS colour.... although generally what we do is substitute opaque white for transparent to give the ink enough body
            Message 5 of 16 , Dec 4, 2002
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              Susan
              It would be helpful to know which PMS colour.... although generally
              what we do is substitute opaque white for transparent to give the ink
              enough body (stiffness)
              Most often we will split the transparent white component 50 - 50
              tranparent white, and opaque white. In many situations I would also
              recommend mixing the colour components, then add to a bit of opaque
              white, and mix until you get proper visual colour - If you mix with
              straight opaque white, generally the ink will print pretty much as
              you see it on the slab!
              Good luck

              Shane

              We print several jobs a week on average using colours with high
              tranparent white components.... We specialize in letterpress
              printing, and deal with designers.... who all seem to love
              transparent tints!

              --- In PPLetterpress@y..., Susan Angebranndt <susan@d...> wrote:
              >
              > Recently I mixed up a PMS color that was mostly transparent white
              > (using Vanson rubber-based ink). The color matched, but when I went
              > to print, the result was as if I had lowered my rollers -- there
              was
              > splatter all around the type. I had just printed the plate using
              > black ink with good results, and all I did was clean the press and
              > re-ink. Does anyone have any advice for me? (I have a C&P pilot, so
              > changing the roller height isn't really an option; I removed some
              > packing from the platen but that didn't really help the splatter
              > problem much)
              >
              > Thanks
              > Susan Angebranndt
              > susan@d...
            • Katie Harper
              Susan: I have found inks colors that have a lot of trans white to be problematic. I have now started custom ordering the ink from a local ink company, instead
              Message 6 of 16 , Dec 4, 2002
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                Susan:

                I have found inks colors that have a lot of trans white to be problematic. I
                have now started custom ordering the ink from a local ink company, instead
                of mixing it myself. That has solved a lot of problems.


                Katie Harper
                Ars Brevis Press
                Cincinnati, OH
                513-233-9588
                http://www.arsbrevispress.com





                > From: Susan Angebranndt <susan@...>
                > Reply-To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                > Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 16:43:19 -0800
                > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Mixing ink colors
                >
                >
                > Recently I mixed up a PMS color that was mostly transparent white
                > (using Vanson rubber-based ink). The color matched, but when I went
                > to print, the result was as if I had lowered my rollers -- there was
                > splatter all around the type. I had just printed the plate using
                > black ink with good results, and all I did was clean the press and
                > re-ink. Does anyone have any advice for me? (I have a C&P pilot, so
                > changing the roller height isn't really an option; I removed some
                > packing from the platen but that didn't really help the splatter
                > problem much)
                >
                > Thanks
                > Susan Angebranndt
                > susan@...
                >
                > ? To respond to a post or post a message to the membership:
                > PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                > ? Encountering problems? contact:
                > PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
                > ? To unsubscribe:
                > PPLetterpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
              • The Indian Hill Press
                Susan: Sounds like classic overinking. With pale colors, we starve the press as much as the solids will allow. Note that this may necessitate reducing the
                Message 7 of 16 , Dec 5, 2002
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                  Susan:

                  Sounds like classic overinking. With pale colors, we starve the press
                  as much as the solids will allow. Note that this may necessitate
                  reducing the amount of transparent white in your PMS formula to
                  maintain color fidelity. But with letterpress, the recipes are all
                  eyeballed anyway.

                  Dan Waters
                  Indian Hill Press

                  >Recently I mixed up a PMS color that was mostly transparent white
                  >(using Vanson rubber-based ink). The color matched, but when I went
                  >to print, the result was as if I had lowered my rollers -- there was
                  >splatter all around the type. I had just printed the plate using
                  >black ink with good results, and all I did was clean the press and
                  >re-ink. Does anyone have any advice for me? (I have a C&P pilot, so
                  >changing the roller height isn't really an option; I removed some
                  >packing from the platen but that didn't really help the splatter
                  >problem much)
                  >
                  >Thanks
                  >Susan Angebranndt
                  >susan@...
                • alncarter2003 <alncarter@hotmail.com>
                  Hi, These pastel-toned inks require a finer touch than our more-forgiving black inks. The areas of concern are: roller pressure, amount of ink on roller, the
                  Message 8 of 16 , Dec 12, 2002
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                    Hi,
                    These pastel-toned inks require a finer touch than our
                    more-forgiving black inks. The areas of concern are: roller pressure,
                    amount of ink on roller, the ink mix, and the printing impression.

                    Even that Pilot can be finessed and duct tape is the way to do it:
                    apply to those rails that the rollers ride on and you'll back off the
                    pressure--one of those Vandercook (round thing on a metal stick)
                    gauges that NA Graphics sells is perfect for checking the
                    roller-to-plate pressure. You can also just wrap the tape around the
                    metal collars that go on the ends of the rollers.

                    As for ink on the rollers, I usually ink up until the rollers are
                    evenly coated and then take off excess ink with paper--this way there
                    are no "starved" areas on the rollers which actually take ink off of
                    the plate, but you're not over-inked either. If you haven't done it
                    lately, before you ink up it wouldn't be a bad idea to test those
                    rollers for imperfections by rolling them on a table and looking to
                    see if they contact the surface evenly or if you can sometimes see
                    light peek through while you move them--if so, new rollers are the
                    only cure. We'll just assume that those rollers are clean, unglazed,
                    at the proper diameter, and aren't as hard as a rock.

                    Mixing ink. Depending on paper and press (and operator), this
                    varies, but I usually add 30-50% more white ink than the formula
                    says--letterpress lays a thicker layer of ink than offset and that
                    extra ink increases the value to the point, with these pastels, that
                    you often wind up printing several pms numbers up the scale from the
                    color that you are trying to lay down. With more white ink in the mix,
                    while you're laying down more ink than our offset brethren (who that
                    pms book is calibrated for) you'll be actually putting down the
                    correct amount of pigment required to produce that matching color.

                    Printing pressure affects these colors' presentation, with heavy
                    pressure producing darker tones. As the Pilot tends to print on the
                    heavy pressure side, most of your color adjustments will have to be
                    made as discussed above. Either that or do 50 pushups before
                    printing--then perhaps your arms will be tired enough for a gentler
                    impression. Hope this helps. --Hal
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