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Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Scan backs

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  • Erik Desmyter
    I remember when experimenting with large size high resolution flatbed scanning a few years ago that software like Adobe Photoshop was limited to images with a
    Message 1 of 14 , Apr 5, 2009
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      I remember when experimenting with large size high resolution flatbed
      scanning a few years ago that software like Adobe Photoshop was limited to
      images with a length (or width) of maximum 30,000 pixels or dots. But a high
      resolution A3 flatbed scanner could go higher at for example 16.5" x 2400
      dpi so the software was then sometimes a limiting factor. Not sure what the
      situation is today on software when talking about these huge files.

      The Wikipedia example says "the resulting image would be 10,000 x 10,000, or
      100 million pixels with full color information for each pixel. The final
      image size would be 10,000 pixels x 10,000 pixels x 48 bit per pixel /8 bits
      per byte = 600 megabytes". Maybe I am wrong but wouldn't such a "scan back"
      camera image be similar in quality to a traditional 16.66" x 16.66"
      (flatbed) scan at 600 dpi - 48 bits RGB?

      Regards,
      Erik
    • Lance Williams
      Erik, The one thing that the Wikipedia article does not discuss in much detail is the resolution of the scan. However, it can be deduced from the information
      Message 2 of 14 , Apr 5, 2009
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        Erik,

        The one thing that the Wikipedia article does not discuss in much detail is
        the resolution of the scan. However, it can be deduced from the
        information given: The particular scan array in the article is listed as
        pixel sizes of 6 �m (nanometers), and 10,000 pixels taking up 6cm
        (centimeters). This would give an image resolution of approximately 4230
        pixels per inch or 4230 dpi. (10000/(6/2.54)) (2.54 cm to 1 inch).

        This is much greater scanning quality than any flatbed scanner will give.
        Even the so-called 2400 or 4800 dpi scanners give those resolutions by
        interlacing the data from the scanner, as mentioned in the beginning of the
        article. Each pixel point on a typical flatbed scanner scans one color
        (RGB) and interpolates the other color factors from the data collected from
        the neighboring pixel point that is reading the appropriate color. This is
        what can create a lot of the ghosting and such when a picture is enlarged.

        Well, I have about reached my technical knowledge of digital imaging, so
        enough for today...

        - Lance


        > [Original Message]
        > From: Erik Desmyter <erik.desmyter@...>
        > To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
        > Date: 4/5/2009 4:33:29 PM
        > Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Scan backs
        >
        > I remember when experimenting with large size high resolution flatbed
        > scanning a few years ago that software like Adobe Photoshop was limited
        to
        > images with a length (or width) of maximum 30,000 pixels or dots. But a
        high
        > resolution A3 flatbed scanner could go higher at for example 16.5" x 2400
        > dpi so the software was then sometimes a limiting factor. Not sure what
        the
        > situation is today on software when talking about these huge files.
        >
        > The Wikipedia example says "the resulting image would be 10,000 x 10,000,
        or
        > 100 million pixels with full color information for each pixel. The final
        > image size would be 10,000 pixels x 10,000 pixels x 48 bit per pixel /8
        bits
        > per byte = 600 megabytes". Maybe I am wrong but wouldn't such a "scan
        back"
        > camera image be similar in quality to a traditional 16.66" x 16.66"
        > (flatbed) scan at 600 dpi - 48 bits RGB?
        >
        > Regards,
        > Erik
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
      • Bryan Hutcheson
        Manifesto Letterpress and Industrie Standard are excited to announce the launch of our new line of letterpress paper - Holyoke Premium Cotton. We developed HPC
        Message 3 of 14 , Apr 5, 2009
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          Manifesto Letterpress and Industrie Standard are excited to announce
          the launch of our new line of letterpress paper - Holyoke Premium
          Cotton.

          We developed HPC with a local mill in early 2008 and made it
          available to a few of our existing clients later in the year for
          testing. This is a great letterpress paper, developed for today's
          platen and cylinder press printing. In addition to a 30" x 22" parent
          sheet, HPC is also available in standard and oversize pre-cut flat
          card sizes. HPC is only available directly from Manifesto
          Letterpress / Industrie Standard.


          100% Archival Grade Cotton
          140# Cover
          Velvet Finish
          3 Colors: Bone, Antique, Natural

          Parent Sheet: 30" x 22"

          Cut Sizes:
          Standard Announcement
          Oversize Announcement
          Baronial


          Sample books will be sent out May 1st, 2009. Send us an email to add
          your name to our list. hfp@...

          For more information please visit our website:
          http://www.holyokepaper.com


          bryan hutcheson
          manifesto letterpress / industrie standard
          4 open square way - L101
          holyoke, ma 01040
          p:877.529.0009

          www.manifestopress.com
          _________________________________
          full-service commercial letterpress
          announcements
          stationery
          packaging
          posters



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Harold Kyle
          What envelopes do you pair with this paper, Bryan? And what is the gsm of the paper? I m happy to see that you ve made this happen! Thanks, Harold ... Boxcar
          Message 4 of 14 , Apr 5, 2009
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            What envelopes do you pair with this paper, Bryan? And what is the gsm of
            the paper? I'm happy to see that you've made this happen!

            Thanks,
            Harold

            On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 8:56 PM, Bryan Hutcheson <bryan@...>wrote:

            > Manifesto Letterpress and Industrie Standard are excited to announce
            > the launch of our new line of letterpress paper - Holyoke Premium
            > Cotton.
            >
            > __,_
            >
            ---
            Boxcar Press
            501 W. Fayette St. #222
            Syracuse, NY 13204
            www.boxcarpress.com


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Gerald Lange
            Erik Yes, earlier versions of Photoshop did have have a limitation. I remember going to within pixels of it and it was torturous. I didn t have a problem
            Message 5 of 14 , Apr 5, 2009
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              Erik

              Yes, earlier versions of Photoshop did have have a limitation. I remember going to within pixels of it and it was torturous. I didn't have a problem whatsoever with these in Photoshop CS3.3 but the publisher did tell me he could not even open them.

              This type of scan is different as it is capturing pixels accurately without interpolation, and from what I can tell, through different passes. From what I know about it or can make sense of it! At any rate, it really rocks. Don't think I would use it for the everyday but for large format, really, really have to have the detail, it certainly is an answer, no matter what the cost.

              Gerald
              http://BielerPress.blogspot.com


              --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Erik Desmyter" <erik.desmyter@...> wrote:
              >
              > I remember when experimenting with large size high resolution flatbed
              > scanning a few years ago that software like Adobe Photoshop was limited to
              > images with a length (or width) of maximum 30,000 pixels or dots. But a high
              > resolution A3 flatbed scanner could go higher at for example 16.5" x 2400
              > dpi so the software was then sometimes a limiting factor. Not sure what the
              > situation is today on software when talking about these huge files.
              >
              > The Wikipedia example says "the resulting image would be 10,000 x 10,000, or
              > 100 million pixels with full color information for each pixel. The final
              > image size would be 10,000 pixels x 10,000 pixels x 48 bit per pixel /8 bits
              > per byte = 600 megabytes". Maybe I am wrong but wouldn't such a "scan back"
              > camera image be similar in quality to a traditional 16.66" x 16.66"
              > (flatbed) scan at 600 dpi - 48 bits RGB?
              >
              > Regards,
              > Erik
              >
            • Scott Rubel
              Parsons Paper Mill burnt down in June last year. Are you still using some local facility? Congratulations on getting this out. I look forward to the samples.
              Message 6 of 14 , Apr 5, 2009
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                Parsons Paper Mill burnt down in June last year. Are you still using
                some local facility? Congratulations on getting this out. I look
                forward to the samples. --Scott

                On Apr 5, 2009, at 5:56 PM, Bryan Hutcheson wrote:

                > Manifesto Letterpress and Industrie Standard are excited to announce
                > the launch of our new line of letterpress paper - Holyoke Premium
                > Cotton.
                >
                > We developed HPC with a local mill in early 2008 and made it
                > available to a few of our existing clients later in the year for
                > testing. This is a great letterpress paper, developed for today's
                > platen and cylinder press printing. In addition to a 30" x 22" parent
                > sheet, HPC is also available in standard and oversize pre-cut flat
                > card sizes. HPC is only available directly from Manifesto
                > Letterpress / Industrie Standard.
                >
                >
                > 100% Archival Grade Cotton
                > 140# Cover
                > Velvet Finish
                > 3 Colors: Bone, Antique, Natural
                >
                > Parent Sheet: 30" x 22"
                >
                > Cut Sizes:
                > Standard Announcement
                > Oversize Announcement
                > Baronial
                >
                >
                > Sample books will be sent out May 1st, 2009. Send us an email to add
                > your name to our list. hfp@...
                >
                > For more information please visit our website:
                > http://www.holyokepaper.com
                >
                >
                > bryan hutcheson
                > manifesto letterpress / industrie standard
                > 4 open square way - L101
                > holyoke, ma 01040
                > p:877.529.0009
                >
                > www.manifestopress.com
                > _________________________________
                > full-service commercial letterpress
                > announcements
                > stationery
                > packaging
                > posters
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
              • lamsland1@comcast.net
                A high end drum scanner could have scanner could have accomplished the same thing. Every high end production scanner I know of scans both reflective and
                Message 7 of 14 , Apr 6, 2009
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                  A high end drum scanner could have scanner could have accomplished the same thing. Every high end production scanner I know of scans both reflective and transmissive originals. Most, especially later models, did insanely high resolution and enlargement as well.

                  The big advantage using a high end camera like this is you don't need to mount the original to a drum. This is typically done with a release adhesive tape, and always amounts to some bit of damage to the original. It can be mounted by sandwiching it between the drum and a sheet of optically clear mylar, but this inevitably reduces the quality of the scan. There is also the chance to stretch the original while trying to get a tight mount. Very large or stiff originals are also quite difficult to mount, even with a mounting rig.

                  Very cool job though Gerald, I'd love to see more photos of the printed pieces.

                  Matthew "LAMMY" Lamoureux
                  Full Metal Press - Operis servo a specialis nundinae

                  Where the press is free and every man able to read, all is safe.
                  Thomas Jefferson




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Paul Watry
                  The mounting for a high end drummer scan is critical. 35mm film works well particularly with gel, but 5 x 4 is typically too large to gel mount without a
                  Message 8 of 14 , Apr 6, 2009
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                    The mounting for a high end drummer scan is critical. 35mm film
                    works well particularly with gel, but 5 x 4 is typically too large to
                    gel mount without a special mounting unit. I refer to the Tango drum
                    scanner that we bought from Heidelberg, which comes with its own
                    mounting station not entirely suitable for 5 x 4; anyone considering
                    this as a solution should check.

                    Paul


                    On 6 Apr 2009, at 13:44, lamsland1@... wrote:

                    > A high end drum scanner could have scanner could have accomplished
                    > the same thing. Every high end production scanner I know of scans
                    > both reflective and transmissive originals. Most, especially later
                    > models, did insanely high resolution and enlargement as well.
                    >
                    > The big advantage using a high end camera like this is you don't
                    > need to mount the original to a drum. This is typically done with a
                    > release adhesive tape, and always amounts to some bit of damage to
                    > the original. It can be mounted by sandwiching it between the drum
                    > and a sheet of optically clear mylar, but this inevitably reduces
                    > the quality of the scan. There is also the chance to stretch the
                    > original while trying to get a tight mount. Very large or stiff
                    > originals are also quite difficult to mount, even with a mounting rig.
                    >
                    > Very cool job though Gerald, I'd love to see more photos of the
                    > printed pieces.
                    >
                    > Matthew "LAMMY" Lamoureux
                    > Full Metal Press - Operis servo a specialis nundinae
                    >
                    > Where the press is free and every man able to read, all is safe.
                    > Thomas Jefferson
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • lamsland1@comcast.net
                    The two scanners I m familar with were and older Screen, I forget the model now. It was the kind with no computer attached to it and imaged directly to film
                    Message 9 of 14 , Apr 6, 2009
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                      The two scanners I'm familar with were and older Screen, I forget the model now. It was the kind with no computer attached to it and imaged directly to film for the most part. Rows and rows of dials to adjust the color on the scan. The other was a monster Crossfield. The "big" drum on it could mount something in the size of 20 x 22 iirc. We did do some oil mounts on chromes larger than 4 x 6. Again I forget for what, I just remember it being a serious PIA, took two people, and that was with a NICE mounting station.

                      Matthew "LAMMY" Lamoureux
                      Full Metal Press - Operis servo a specialis nundinae

                      Where the press is free and every man able to read, all is safe.
                      Thomas Jefferson

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Gerald Lange
                      Lammy Thanks. The publisher sent me the photo but I did not ask for more. Probably not too cool for me to do so. They have their own method for marketing this
                      Message 10 of 14 , Apr 12, 2009
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                        Lammy

                        Thanks. The publisher sent me the photo but I did not ask for more. Probably not too cool for me to do so. They have their own method for marketing this stuff. Sort of like the US Treasury with their special coins. I actually do that as well, except instead of a couple of weeks or so to buy the item I put mine up for eternity. Their way is much better but I have little choice in the matter (with my stuff) :—)

                        At any rate, the right scans & negs, plates/base, ink, paper, and my sweetie pie of a press (with her new rollers); wasn't much else for me to do except crank her.

                        http://BielerPress.blogspot.com


                        >
                        > Very cool job though Gerald, I'd love to see more photos of the printed pieces.
                        >
                        > Matthew "LAMMY" Lamoureux
                        > Full Metal Press - Operis servo a specialis nundinae
                        >
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