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Some matters

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  • Gerald Lange
    A new client of mine came in today to test out a plate on a new base they have manufactured (it doesn t have application to letterpress per se). They are a
    Message 1 of 8 , Mar 27, 2009
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      A new client of mine came in today to test out a plate on a new base they have manufactured (it doesn't have application to letterpress per se). They are a distributor of printing inks to the industry and we got to talking (a danger if you ever visit) about the current situation with inks and solvents, that is, traditional industry solvents being replaced by veggie oils that don't work without a secondary cleaning process. Etc. Most of my suspicions were confirmed.

      "Green" inks and solvents are junk. The ink and solvent industry are in chaos. Further regulation, a certainty, is just going to make it worse.

      A for instance, soy inks are a joke, you could put a drop of soy in the mix and claim it to be "soy" and no one would be the wiser. No standards on soy specifications cause it's just sounds good to say you use it, even though the Amazon Rain Forest "re-claimed" land is being used to grow it. Last night I asked a student who was having problems if she was using soy inks. She said no. Sure enough, it was not a soy ink, but the label said, label printed in soy ink. Geeez.

      The perceived enemy here is anything that is "petro-chemical," "everyone" agrees on that, so it is fair game. Even though these are not only the most effective cleaners, they are often less intrusive, chemically, than all the new stuff that is being proffered. I have determined, based on the ingredients listed on the sides of green solvents I am now "required" to use at one institution that I am using diesel fuel (made from corn) which is then removed by radiator fluid. Except they cost a hell of a lot more. But they have green labels so all is good.

      I was amazed to hear from an industry insider that the concerns are the same.

      Gerald
      http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
    • Scott Rubel
      Gerald: Boy are you right about this. This green stuff is killing me. In the old days I didn t know better than to use whatever: kerosene, gasoline, then, if I
      Message 2 of 8 , Mar 27, 2009
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        Gerald:

        Boy are you right about this.

        This green stuff is killing me. In the old days I didn't know better
        than to use whatever: kerosene, gasoline, then, if I needed a quick
        dry, acetone.

        Then when I discovered the wonderful water miscible wash I was amazed
        that anything could actually do a better job than the nasty stuff,
        and do it with no smell. It cleaned and dried FAST and didn't seem to
        ruin rollers.

        Last year when Kelly said it was being outlawed I couldn't believe
        that the state had determined that the stuff was toxic.

        Anyway, so I started trying all the new oil stuff. What a mess! "Yes,
        this one will work," said the Kelly guy. It didn't. Then another, and
        another. $150 later: oily presses and rollers. Wasted paper. Wasted
        chemicals and the factories to make it and the trucks to haul it.
        WASTE! Nothing is "green" about waste.

        The funny thing is, they made it so I cannot buy water miscible wash
        in California, but there's nothing to stop me from going back to
        using gasoline and acetone again. What the hell?

        As for the soy inks, I'm doing pretty well with those. They've got a
        good percentage of vegetable content, but it's true they admit that
        none of these are pure. They all contain a greater percentage of real
        petroleum oil than they do vegetable.

        I've blogged before about the rain forest problem with increased
        usage of soy, too.

        I've adopted the policy that what works best is what is more green,
        because all this green stuff is wasting paper (even if it's recycled)
        and ink and time.

        --Scott

        On Mar 27, 2009, at 7:41 PM, Gerald Lange wrote:

        > A new client of mine came in today to test out a plate on a new
        > base they have manufactured (it doesn't have application to
        > letterpress per se). They are a distributor of printing inks to the
        > industry and we got to talking (a danger if you ever visit) about
        > the current situation with inks and solvents, that is, traditional
        > industry solvents being replaced by veggie oils that don't work
        > without a secondary cleaning process. Etc. Most of my suspicions
        > were confirmed.
        >
        > "Green" inks and solvents are junk. The ink and solvent industry
        > are in chaos. Further regulation, a certainty, is just going to
        > make it worse.
        >
        > A for instance, soy inks are a joke, you could put a drop of soy in
        > the mix and claim it to be "soy" and no one would be the wiser. No
        > standards on soy specifications cause it's just sounds good to say
        > you use it, even though the Amazon Rain Forest "re-claimed" land is
        > being used to grow it. Last night I asked a student who was having
        > problems if she was using soy inks. She said no. Sure enough, it
        > was not a soy ink, but the label said, label printed in soy ink.
        > Geeez.
        >
        > The perceived enemy here is anything that is "petro-chemical,"
        > "everyone" agrees on that, so it is fair game. Even though these
        > are not only the most effective cleaners, they are often less
        > intrusive, chemically, than all the new stuff that is being
        > proffered. I have determined, based on the ingredients listed on
        > the sides of green solvents I am now "required" to use at one
        > institution that I am using diesel fuel (made from corn) which is
        > then removed by radiator fluid. Except they cost a hell of a lot
        > more. But they have green labels so all is good.
        >
        > I was amazed to hear from an industry insider that the concerns are
        > the same.
        >
        > Gerald
        > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
      • Ed Inman
        Some environmental regulations may indeed be excessive, but the era of developing photo plates with sodium cyanide, killing insects with DDT, and insulating my
        Message 3 of 8 , Mar 27, 2009
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          Some environmental regulations may indeed be excessive, but the era of developing photo plates with sodium cyanide, killing insects with DDT, and insulating my water heater with asbestos doesn't entirely conjure up the image of the "good ol' days."
          Ed
        • Gerald Lange
          Scott All of these regulations and restrictions are intended for the printing industry. I assume you are talking about California Wash. Failed to meet current
          Message 4 of 8 , Mar 27, 2009
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            Scott

            All of these regulations and restrictions are intended for the printing
            industry. I assume you are talking about California Wash. Failed to meet
            current VOC standards in certain California counties, LA being one of them.

            I don't know about you but I have never considered my meager letterpress
            contributions to even be associated with the printing industry.

            Folks think nothing of taking Coleman Lantern Fuel on their camping
            trips. It is high grade white gas and an excellent type wash.

            Some folks like to have oil lamps to cozy up those winter evenings; the
            fuel for which is nothing other than colored and deodorized kerosene,
            and a useful solvent for composition rollers.

            Anyone who has to paint something uses paint thinner, mineral spirits, a
            very useful press wash, and in its deodorized form (less toluene and
            xylene) a very acceptable non-offensive solvent.

            You can buy all this stuff in any hardware store and, quite frankly, in
            terms of the smell factor, not much different than any industry solvent
            being proffered.

            What about the health factors? Well, one can also buy fingernail polish
            remover (acetone) or Goof Off (xylene) or Windex or Simple Green (both
            of the latter, on the list of hazardous household chemicals) or any of a
            large number of cleaning products, not associated with industry, that
            are not subject to regulation, in any grocery store. And most of us do,
            without batting an eye.

            Gerald
            http://BielerPress.blogspot.com

            Scott Rubel wrote:
            > Gerald:
            >
            > Boy are you right about this.
            >
            > This green stuff is killing me. In the old days I didn't know better
            > than to use whatever: kerosene, gasoline, then, if I needed a quick
            > dry, acetone.
            >
            > Then when I discovered the wonderful water miscible wash I was amazed
            > that anything could actually do a better job than the nasty stuff,
            > and do it with no smell. It cleaned and dried FAST and didn't seem to
            > ruin rollers.
            >
            > Last year when Kelly said it was being outlawed I couldn't believe
            > that the state had determined that the stuff was toxic.
            >
            > Anyway, so I started trying all the new oil stuff. What a mess! "Yes,
            > this one will work," said the Kelly guy. It didn't. Then another, and
            > another. $150 later: oily presses and rollers. Wasted paper. Wasted
            > chemicals and the factories to make it and the trucks to haul it.
            > WASTE! Nothing is "green" about waste.
            >
            > The funny thing is, they made it so I cannot buy water miscible wash
            > in California, but there's nothing to stop me from going back to
            > using gasoline and acetone again. What the hell?
            >
            > As for the soy inks, I'm doing pretty well with those. They've got a
            > good percentage of vegetable content, but it's true they admit that
            > none of these are pure. They all contain a greater percentage of real
            > petroleum oil than they do vegetable.
            >
            > I've blogged before about the rain forest problem with increased
            > usage of soy, too.
            >
            > I've adopted the policy that what works best is what is more green,
            > because all this green stuff is wasting paper (even if it's recycled)
            > and ink and time.
            >
            > --Scott
            >
            > On Mar 27, 2009, at 7:41 PM, Gerald Lange wrote:
            >
            >
            >> A new client of mine came in today to test out a plate on a new
            >> base they have manufactured (it doesn't have application to
            >> letterpress per se). They are a distributor of printing inks to the
            >> industry and we got to talking (a danger if you ever visit) about
            >> the current situation with inks and solvents, that is, traditional
            >> industry solvents being replaced by veggie oils that don't work
            >> without a secondary cleaning process. Etc. Most of my suspicions
            >> were confirmed.
            >>
            >> "Green" inks and solvents are junk. The ink and solvent industry
            >> are in chaos. Further regulation, a certainty, is just going to
            >> make it worse.
            >>
            >> A for instance, soy inks are a joke, you could put a drop of soy in
            >> the mix and claim it to be "soy" and no one would be the wiser. No
            >> standards on soy specifications cause it's just sounds good to say
            >> you use it, even though the Amazon Rain Forest "re-claimed" land is
            >> being used to grow it. Last night I asked a student who was having
            >> problems if she was using soy inks. She said no. Sure enough, it
            >> was not a soy ink, but the label said, label printed in soy ink.
            >> Geeez.
            >>
            >> The perceived enemy here is anything that is "petro-chemical,"
            >> "everyone" agrees on that, so it is fair game. Even though these
            >> are not only the most effective cleaners, they are often less
            >> intrusive, chemically, than all the new stuff that is being
            >> proffered. I have determined, based on the ingredients listed on
            >> the sides of green solvents I am now "required" to use at one
            >> institution that I am using diesel fuel (made from corn) which is
            >> then removed by radiator fluid. Except they cost a hell of a lot
            >> more. But they have green labels so all is good.
            >>
            >> I was amazed to hear from an industry insider that the concerns are
            >> the same.
            >>
            >> Gerald
            >> http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
            >>
            >> ------------------------------------
            >>
            >> Y
          • Scott Rubel
            Eggsactly. I was not talking about California Wash. The Pressline Water Miscible wash was the best and most effective single chemical I ve ever used. The press
            Message 5 of 8 , Mar 28, 2009
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              Eggsactly.

              I was not talking about California Wash. The Pressline Water Miscible
              wash was the best and most effective single chemical I've ever used.
              The press would clean instantly and dry and be ready for ink all
              without the smell of gasoline. Not that I mind gasoline smell, but
              with employees and all, keeping smells down keeps down complaints.
              Now I'm just getting complaints about the cleaners. My guys are
              finally learning to use one of these new oily cleaners and get the
              press dry and get pretty good inking, but when we first started using
              the new cleaners we thought we were making blurry plates.

              --Scott

              On Mar 27, 2009, at 11:04 PM, Gerald Lange wrote:

              > Scott
              >
              > All of these regulations and restrictions are intended for the
              > printing
              > industry. I assume you are talking about California Wash. Failed to
              > meet
              > current VOC standards in certain California counties, LA being one
              > of them.
              >
              > I don't know about you but I have never considered my meager
              > letterpress
              > contributions to even be associated with the printing industry.
              >
              > Folks think nothing of taking Coleman Lantern Fuel on their camping
              > trips. It is high grade white gas and an excellent type wash.
              >
              > Some folks like to have oil lamps to cozy up those winter evenings;
              > the
              > fuel for which is nothing other than colored and deodorized kerosene,
              > and a useful solvent for composition rollers.
              >
              > Anyone who has to paint something uses paint thinner, mineral
              > spirits, a
              > very useful press wash, and in its deodorized form (less toluene and
              > xylene) a very acceptable non-offensive solvent.
              >
              > You can buy all this stuff in any hardware store and, quite
              > frankly, in
              > terms of the smell factor, not much different than any industry
              > solvent
              > being proffered.
              >
              > What about the health factors? Well, one can also buy fingernail
              > polish
              > remover (acetone) or Goof Off (xylene) or Windex or Simple Green (both
              > of the latter, on the list of hazardous household chemicals) or any
              > of a
              > large number of cleaning products, not associated with industry, that
              > are not subject to regulation, in any grocery store. And most of us
              > do,
              > without batting an eye.
              >
              > Gerald
              > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
              >
              > Scott Rubel wrote:
              >> Gerald:
              >>
              >> Boy are you right about this.
              >>
              >> This green stuff is killing me. In the old days I didn't know better
              >> than to use whatever: kerosene, gasoline, then, if I needed a quick
              >> dry, acetone.
              >>
              >> Then when I discovered the wonderful water miscible wash I was amazed
              >> that anything could actually do a better job than the nasty stuff,
              >> and do it with no smell. It cleaned and dried FAST and didn't seem to
              >> ruin rollers.
              >>
              >> Last year when Kelly said it was being outlawed I couldn't believe
              >> that the state had determined that the stuff was toxic.
              >>
              >> Anyway, so I started trying all the new oil stuff. What a mess! "Yes,
              >> this one will work," said the Kelly guy. It didn't. Then another, and
              >> another. $150 later: oily presses and rollers. Wasted paper. Wasted
              >> chemicals and the factories to make it and the trucks to haul it.
              >> WASTE! Nothing is "green" about waste.
              >>
              >> The funny thing is, they made it so I cannot buy water miscible wash
              >> in California, but there's nothing to stop me from going back to
              >> using gasoline and acetone again. What the hell?
              >>
              >> As for the soy inks, I'm doing pretty well with those. They've got a
              >> good percentage of vegetable content, but it's true they admit that
              >> none of these are pure. They all contain a greater percentage of real
              >> petroleum oil than they do vegetable.
              >>
              >> I've blogged before about the rain forest problem with increased
              >> usage of soy, too.
              >>
              >> I've adopted the policy that what works best is what is more green,
              >> because all this green stuff is wasting paper (even if it's recycled)
              >> and ink and time.
              >>
              >> --Scott
              >>
              >> On Mar 27, 2009, at 7:41 PM, Gerald Lange wrote:
              >>
              >>
              >>> A new client of mine came in today to test out a plate on a new
              >>> base they have manufactured (it doesn't have application to
              >>> letterpress per se). They are a distributor of printing inks to the
              >>> industry and we got to talking (a danger if you ever visit) about
              >>> the current situation with inks and solvents, that is, traditional
              >>> industry solvents being replaced by veggie oils that don't work
              >>> without a secondary cleaning process. Etc. Most of my suspicions
              >>> were confirmed.
              >>>
              >>> "Green" inks and solvents are junk. The ink and solvent industry
              >>> are in chaos. Further regulation, a certainty, is just going to
              >>> make it worse.
              >>>
              >>> A for instance, soy inks are a joke, you could put a drop of soy in
              >>> the mix and claim it to be "soy" and no one would be the wiser. No
              >>> standards on soy specifications cause it's just sounds good to say
              >>> you use it, even though the Amazon Rain Forest "re-claimed" land is
              >>> being used to grow it. Last night I asked a student who was having
              >>> problems if she was using soy inks. She said no. Sure enough, it
              >>> was not a soy ink, but the label said, label printed in soy ink.
              >>> Geeez.
              >>>
              >>> The perceived enemy here is anything that is "petro-chemical,"
              >>> "everyone" agrees on that, so it is fair game. Even though these
              >>> are not only the most effective cleaners, they are often less
              >>> intrusive, chemically, than all the new stuff that is being
              >>> proffered. I have determined, based on the ingredients listed on
              >>> the sides of green solvents I am now "required" to use at one
              >>> institution that I am using diesel fuel (made from corn) which is
              >>> then removed by radiator fluid. Except they cost a hell of a lot
              >>> more. But they have green labels so all is good.
              >>>
              >>> I was amazed to hear from an industry insider that the concerns are
              >>> the same.
              >>>
              >>> Gerald
              >>> http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
              >>>
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
            • okintertype
              Are we getting terms confused here? Petroleum Oil in ink? It wouldn t dry. The Paint industry has always referred to drying oils a good example of which
              Message 6 of 8 , Mar 28, 2009
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                Are we getting terms confused here? Petroleum Oil in ink? It wouldn't dry. The Paint industry has always referred to "drying oils" a good example of which is Linseed oil. It is not a petroleum product, but it will dry by polymerization. There are other oils and some related synthetic resins, none of which are "petroleum oil." I have some experience with the paint industry which has some similarity to ink. But I am no ink expert. It would be interesting to know exactly what is in ink. I doubt that ink producers would want to be very specific.

                Stan


                --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Scott Rubel <scott@...> wrote:
                >
                > Gerald:
                >
                > Boy are you right about this.
                >
                > This green stuff is killing me. In the old days I didn't know better
                > than to use whatever: kerosene, gasoline, then, if I needed a quick
                > dry, acetone.
                >
                > Then when I discovered the wonderful water miscible wash I was amazed
                > that anything could actually do a better job than the nasty stuff,
                > and do it with no smell. It cleaned and dried FAST and didn't seem to
                > ruin rollers.
                >
                > Last year when Kelly said it was being outlawed I couldn't believe
                > that the state had determined that the stuff was toxic.
                >
                > Anyway, so I started trying all the new oil stuff. What a mess! "Yes,
                > this one will work," said the Kelly guy. It didn't. Then another, and
                > another. $150 later: oily presses and rollers. Wasted paper. Wasted
                > chemicals and the factories to make it and the trucks to haul it.
                > WASTE! Nothing is "green" about waste.
                >
                > The funny thing is, they made it so I cannot buy water miscible wash
                > in California, but there's nothing to stop me from going back to
                > using gasoline and acetone again. What the hell?
                >
                > As for the soy inks, I'm doing pretty well with those. They've got a
                > good percentage of vegetable content, but it's true they admit that
                > none of these are pure. They all contain a greater percentage of real
                > petroleum oil than they do vegetable.
                >
                > I've blogged before about the rain forest problem with increased
                > usage of soy, too.
                >
                > I've adopted the policy that what works best is what is more green,
                > because all this green stuff is wasting paper (even if it's recycled)
                > and ink and time.
                >
                > --Scott
                >
                > On Mar 27, 2009, at 7:41 PM, Gerald Lange wrote:
                >
                > > A new client of mine came in today to test out a plate on a new
                > > base they have manufactured (it doesn't have application to
                > > letterpress per se). They are a distributor of printing inks to the
                > > industry and we got to talking (a danger if you ever visit) about
                > > the current situation with inks and solvents, that is, traditional
                > > industry solvents being replaced by veggie oils that don't work
                > > without a secondary cleaning process. Etc. Most of my suspicions
                > > were confirmed.
                > >
                > > "Green" inks and solvents are junk. The ink and solvent industry
                > > are in chaos. Further regulation, a certainty, is just going to
                > > make it worse.
                > >
                > > A for instance, soy inks are a joke, you could put a drop of soy in
                > > the mix and claim it to be "soy" and no one would be the wiser. No
                > > standards on soy specifications cause it's just sounds good to say
                > > you use it, even though the Amazon Rain Forest "re-claimed" land is
                > > being used to grow it. Last night I asked a student who was having
                > > problems if she was using soy inks. She said no. Sure enough, it
                > > was not a soy ink, but the label said, label printed in soy ink.
                > > Geeez.
                > >
                > > The perceived enemy here is anything that is "petro-chemical,"
                > > "everyone" agrees on that, so it is fair game. Even though these
                > > are not only the most effective cleaners, they are often less
                > > intrusive, chemically, than all the new stuff that is being
                > > proffered. I have determined, based on the ingredients listed on
                > > the sides of green solvents I am now "required" to use at one
                > > institution that I am using diesel fuel (made from corn) which is
                > > then removed by radiator fluid. Except they cost a hell of a lot
                > > more. But they have green labels so all is good.
                > >
                > > I was amazed to hear from an industry insider that the concerns are
                > > the same.
                > >
                > > Gerald
                > > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
              • Ian Bristow
                Sounds like a bunch of Greenwash to me anyway!!!! ... From: okintertype Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Some matters To:
                Message 7 of 8 , Mar 29, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  Sounds like a bunch of "Greenwash" to me anyway!!!!

                  --- On Sat, 3/28/09, okintertype <spthompson@...> wrote:

                  From: okintertype <spthompson@...>
                  Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Some matters
                  To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                  Received: Saturday, March 28, 2009, 10:15 PM












                  Are we getting terms confused here? Petroleum Oil in ink? It wouldn't dry. The Paint industry has always referred to "drying oils" a good example of which is Linseed oil. It is not a petroleum product, but it will dry by polymerization. There are other oils and some related synthetic resins, none of which are "petroleum oil." I have some experience with the paint industry which has some similarity to ink. But I am no ink expert. It would be interesting to know exactly what is in ink. I doubt that ink producers would want to be very specific.



                  Stan



                  --- In PPLetterpress@ yahoogroups. com, Scott Rubel <scott@...> wrote:

                  >

                  > Gerald:

                  >

                  > Boy are you right about this.

                  >

                  > This green stuff is killing me. In the old days I didn't know better

                  > than to use whatever: kerosene, gasoline, then, if I needed a quick

                  > dry, acetone.

                  >

                  > Then when I discovered the wonderful water miscible wash I was amazed

                  > that anything could actually do a better job than the nasty stuff,

                  > and do it with no smell. It cleaned and dried FAST and didn't seem to

                  > ruin rollers.

                  >

                  > Last year when Kelly said it was being outlawed I couldn't believe

                  > that the state had determined that the stuff was toxic.

                  >

                  > Anyway, so I started trying all the new oil stuff. What a mess! "Yes,

                  > this one will work," said the Kelly guy. It didn't. Then another, and

                  > another. $150 later: oily presses and rollers. Wasted paper. Wasted

                  > chemicals and the factories to make it and the trucks to haul it.

                  > WASTE! Nothing is "green" about waste.

                  >

                  > The funny thing is, they made it so I cannot buy water miscible wash

                  > in California, but there's nothing to stop me from going back to

                  > using gasoline and acetone again. What the hell?

                  >

                  > As for the soy inks, I'm doing pretty well with those. They've got a

                  > good percentage of vegetable content, but it's true they admit that

                  > none of these are pure. They all contain a greater percentage of real

                  > petroleum oil than they do vegetable.

                  >

                  > I've blogged before about the rain forest problem with increased

                  > usage of soy, too.

                  >

                  > I've adopted the policy that what works best is what is more green,

                  > because all this green stuff is wasting paper (even if it's recycled)

                  > and ink and time.

                  >

                  > --Scott

                  >

                  > On Mar 27, 2009, at 7:41 PM, Gerald Lange wrote:

                  >

                  > > A new client of mine came in today to test out a plate on a new

                  > > base they have manufactured (it doesn't have application to

                  > > letterpress per se). They are a distributor of printing inks to the

                  > > industry and we got to talking (a danger if you ever visit) about

                  > > the current situation with inks and solvents, that is, traditional

                  > > industry solvents being replaced by veggie oils that don't work

                  > > without a secondary cleaning process. Etc. Most of my suspicions

                  > > were confirmed.

                  > >

                  > > "Green" inks and solvents are junk. The ink and solvent industry

                  > > are in chaos. Further regulation, a certainty, is just going to

                  > > make it worse.

                  > >

                  > > A for instance, soy inks are a joke, you could put a drop of soy in

                  > > the mix and claim it to be "soy" and no one would be the wiser. No

                  > > standards on soy specifications cause it's just sounds good to say

                  > > you use it, even though the Amazon Rain Forest "re-claimed" land is

                  > > being used to grow it. Last night I asked a student who was having

                  > > problems if she was using soy inks. She said no. Sure enough, it

                  > > was not a soy ink, but the label said, label printed in soy ink.

                  > > Geeez.

                  > >

                  > > The perceived enemy here is anything that is "petro-chemical, "

                  > > "everyone" agrees on that, so it is fair game. Even though these

                  > > are not only the most effective cleaners, they are often less

                  > > intrusive, chemically, than all the new stuff that is being

                  > > proffered. I have determined, based on the ingredients listed on

                  > > the sides of green solvents I am now "required" to use at one

                  > > institution that I am using diesel fuel (made from corn) which is

                  > > then removed by radiator fluid. Except they cost a hell of a lot

                  > > more. But they have green labels so all is good.

                  > >

                  > > I was amazed to hear from an industry insider that the concerns are

                  > > the same.

                  > >

                  > > Gerald

                  > > http://BielerPress. blogspot. com

                  > >

                  > > ------------ --------- --------- ------

                  > >

                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links

                  > >

                  > >

                  > >

                  >





























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                • lamsland1@comcast.net
                  This is what happens when you have legislators who are outside of the industry making regulations for that industry. They decide what s best for the industry
                  Message 8 of 8 , Mar 30, 2009
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                    This is what happens when you have legislators who are outside of the industry making regulations for that industry. They decide what's best for the industry based on the claims they hear or they think are being made regarding what's bad and good, wether there's any backing for the claims or not. They don't do anything to find out any of the facts themselves but simply take the word of what someone else tells them. I'd say 8 out of 10 times that someone is in a position to make a lot of money from the new regulations. If reps from the chemical companies were being brought before committees to testify about how hazardous their products were, we, as and industry, would have heard about. They're not but these new regulations are still going in place. Follow the money, that's where the real source of it will come from. Which in the end could be the same chemical companies make the products we all use and love now. It wouldn't be the first time a company has pushed for regulation which would outlaw the use of one product in favor of another, simply because there's more profit in the newer, though lesser liked, product.

                    Now you'll excuse me while I get my tin foil hat refitted. . . .

                    Matthew "LAMMY" Lamoureux
                    Full Metal Press - Operis servo a specialis nundinae

                    Where the press is free and every man able to read, all is safe.
                    Thomas Jefferson

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