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Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: U.S. type foundries

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  • Ph.D.
    Greg Walters in Piqua, Ohio owns some of the Barth casters from ATF, but he does not cast type for sale. He recently bought the ten Kustermann casting machines
    Message 1 of 18 , Mar 1, 2009
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      Greg Walters in Piqua, Ohio owns some of the Barth
      casters from ATF, but he does not cast type for sale.
      He recently bought the ten Kustermann casting machines
      from Cast Craft in Chicago. These were the type of
      casters used by European type foundries to make
      high-quality foundry type just like ATF's. Cast Craft
      had imported them to use with their pirated matrices
      to cast Helvetica and Optima and Melior back in the
      early 1970s.

      Greg is going to host the biennial conference of the
      American Typecasting Fellowship in 2010. He is
      building a new building to house all the casters and
      plans to have at least some of each kind up and
      running by the time of the conference.

      --Ph. D.


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: alex brooks
      To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 2:31 AM
      Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: U.S. type foundries

      NA Graphics sells Dale Guild type (and is a great
      supporter of the foundry) and you can buy from the
      Dale Guild directly. Greg Walters, in Piqua OH,
      owns some of the ATF Barth casters, but I'm not
      sure if he uses them to cast type. Howard Bratter,
      in Brooklyn, is currently selling a complete set-up
      of multiple automatic pivotals, imported from the UK.
    • parallel_imp
      ... The term type foundry predates the Barth and Kustermann casting machines, even the Bruce Pivotal, so your definitive definition is a modern distinction
      Message 2 of 18 , Mar 1, 2009
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        --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@...> wrote:
        >
        > The birth right is the matrix, but more the casting machine. M&H may
        > label their material as foundry cast type (didn't all Monotype
        > casters?), but it is not (at least not in the definitive definition of
        > the term).

        The term "type foundry" predates the Barth and Kustermann casting
        machines, even the Bruce Pivotal, so your "definitive definition" is a
        modern distinction that wouldn't necessarily be recognized by past
        generations of type casters. The term goes back to the days of the
        hand mold.
        If Alex had said instead, "last type foundry using foundry casters"
        that would be more accurate.
        --Eric Holub, SF
      • jason@greenboathouse.com
        I m currently looking, ideally, for a Thompson, but should anyone know of any working Monotype caster looking for a home where it will be put to good use,
        Message 3 of 18 , Mar 1, 2009
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          I'm currently looking, ideally, for a Thompson, but should anyone know of any working Monotype caster looking for a home where it will be put to good use, please let me know. I'm In BC (Canada), and thus this end of the continent would be preferable in terms of pick-up.

          Following in Jim Rimmer's path, my goal is to eventually find a Pantograph and to cast type both from Monotype matrices and also to produce new designs. A lofty goal, clearly, but I'd like to follow in the line of private presses using a house type (Kelmscott, Doves, etc.), and in turn to keep this tradition and practice alive.

          Jason Dewinetz
          Greenboathouse Press



          ----- Original Message -----
          From: parallel_imp
          To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 7:04 AM
          Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: U.S. type foundries


          --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@...> wrote:
          >
          > The birth right is the matrix, but more the casting machine. M&H may
          > label their material as foundry cast type (didn't all Monotype
          > casters?), but it is not (at least not in the definitive definition of
          > the term).

          The term "type foundry" predates the Barth and Kustermann casting
          machines, even the Bruce Pivotal, so your "definitive definition" is a
          modern distinction that wouldn't necessarily be recognized by past
          generations of type casters. The term goes back to the days of the
          hand mold.
          If Alex had said instead, "last type foundry using foundry casters"
          that would be more accurate.
          --Eric Holub, SF




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Mel
          Don t forget Skyline Type! Monotype may be softer than Foundry type, but how many printers today will ever print enough to wear out even Monotype cast type?
          Message 4 of 18 , Mar 1, 2009
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            Don't forget Skyline Type!

            Monotype may be softer than Foundry type, but how many printers today
            will ever print enough to wear out even Monotype cast type?


            Mel
          • Lance Williams
            Well, I would for one.... But that is why I have Intertypes and Ludlows... Never have to worry about running out of type or bashing it into uselessness
            Message 5 of 18 , Mar 1, 2009
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              Well, I would for one.... But that is why I have Intertypes and Ludlows...
              Never have to worry about running out of type or bashing it into
              uselessness <grin>....

              - Lance Williams
              Williams Stationery Co.
              Camden, New York
              APA #785


              > [Original Message]
              > From: Mel <the_melzer@...>
              > To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
              > Date: 3/1/2009 2:04:23 PM
              > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: U.S. type foundries
              >
              > Don't forget Skyline Type!
              >
              > Monotype may be softer than Foundry type, but how many printers today
              > will ever print enough to wear out even Monotype cast type?
              >
              >
              > Mel
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
            • Graham and Kathy
              Or better, which is the real point: Last type foundry using hard metal. Graham Moss Incline Press 36 Bow Street Oldham OL1 1SJ England
              Message 6 of 18 , Mar 3, 2009
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                Or better, which is the real point: Last type foundry using hard metal.


                Graham Moss

                Incline Press
                36 Bow Street
                Oldham OL1 1SJ England

                http://www.inclinepress.com




                On 1/3/09 15:04, "parallel_imp" <Megalonyx@...> wrote:

                > If Alex had said instead, "last type foundry using foundry casters"
                > that would be more accurate.
              • parallel_imp
                ... Graham, it isn t just a matter of typemetal. The temperature and pressure at which type is cast is just as important to the hardness of type, and thats why
                Message 7 of 18 , Mar 3, 2009
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                  --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Graham and Kathy
                  <kwhalen.incline@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Or better, which is the real point: Last type foundry using hard metal.
                  >

                  Graham, it isn't just a matter of typemetal. The temperature and
                  pressure at which type is cast is just as important to the hardness of
                  type, and thats why Thompson and Monotype casters don't produce the
                  same quality as foundry casters. And it takes foundry mats to stand up
                  to that casting environment, not the brass and aluminum mats made for
                  Monotype equipment. One could ruin mats and machines by trying to make
                  type harder than is normal for the equipment. But wherever any of
                  these machines are used is still a type foundry.
                  --Eric Holub, SF
                • Graham and Kathy
                  No, quite so, it isn t just a matter of the hardness of the metal that defines a foundry, but Dale Guild is still the last foundry in the US using hard metal.
                  Message 8 of 18 , Mar 3, 2009
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                    No, quite so, it isn't just a matter of the hardness of the metal that
                    defines a foundry, but Dale Guild is still the last foundry in the US using
                    hard metal. Count your blessings; there's none here.

                    As a printer, I'd put hardness of the metal higher than any of the other
                    physical attributes in any hierarchy of importance, assuming the face of the
                    type wasn't full of bubbles that is!


                    Graham Moss

                    Incline Press
                    36 Bow Street
                    Oldham OL1 1SJ England

                    http://www.inclinepress.com






                    On 3/3/09 14:26, "parallel_imp" <Megalonyx@...> wrote:

                    >> Or better, which is the real point: Last type foundry using hard metal.
                    >>
                    >
                    > Graham, it isn't just a matter of typemetal. The temperature and
                    > pressure at which type is cast is just as important to the hardness of
                    > type, and thats why Thompson and Monotype casters don't produce the
                    > same quality as foundry casters. And it takes foundry mats to stand up
                    > to that casting environment, not the brass and aluminum mats made for
                    > Monotype equipment. One could ruin mats and machines by trying to make
                    > type harder than is normal for the equipment. But wherever any of
                    > these machines are used is still a type foundry.
                    > --Eric Holub, SF
                  • typetom@aol.com
                    ...Last type foundry using hard metal. ...last type foundry using foundry casters A type foundry is a place where metal is melted and cast in a mold. The
                    Message 9 of 18 , Mar 3, 2009
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                      ...Last type foundry using hard metal.

                      ...last type foundry using foundry casters

                      A type foundry is a place where metal is melted and cast in a mold. The
                      Monotype system can accurately be described as a complete type foundry.

                      Claims of type founders regarding the hardness and quality of their type are
                      notoriously suspect. Keystone claimed to be the inventors and sole makers of
                      Nickel-Alloy Type. Barnhart Bros & Spindler made Superior Copper Mixed Type.
                      The amount of those metals in type was probably negligible. Only a few
                      foundries ever actually revealed the proportions of the various metals used in
                      their type.

                      Type metal varies from soft to hard, to brittle, depending on the relative
                      quantities of lead, tin, and antimony. Considering just the inherent hardness
                      of the metal, Dale Guild metal is essentially the same as type made from
                      recycled ATF metal. So even the occasional casting done here at Denver Back Alley
                      Type uses "hard metal." The type offered by Skyline type, also, is cast with
                      hard metal, essentially identical to the metal used at Dale Guild.

                      The key differences, besides the metal formula, are the casting machines
                      involved and the knowledge and attention of the worker, and the protocols being
                      followed such as casting speed and temperature and adjustments to the
                      machinery. A Barth caster, and a Thompson caster for that matter, will make harder
                      type than my antique Monotype because they cast with greater pressure. But I
                      expect any type I cast will out-live me.

                      While Stephenson Blake described itself as The Last of the Old English Type
                      Founders, Mouldtype's monotype was The Best in Any Case. While MacKellar,
                      Smiths & Jordan accurately claimed status as the Oldest American Type Foundry,
                      anyone who casts type today might honorably be described as Successor to
                      Gutenberg and Garamond.

                      At Now It's Up To You, we cast type out of thin air.


                      Tom Parson/ Now It's Up To You/ Denver Back Alley Type Foundry
                      157 S Logan, Denver CO 80209
                      (303) 777-8951
                      (720) 480-5358 cellphone
                      _typetom@..._ (mailto:typetom@...)







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