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Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Wash out temp and brushes

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  • typetom@aol.com
    Hi Gerald, I have been using Miraclon from Gene Becker ever since (at least 7 or 8 years)... Works fine with my home exposure and hand-washout methods.
    Message 1 of 19 , Jan 11, 2009
      Hi Gerald,
      I have been using Miraclon from Gene Becker ever since (at least 7 or 8
      years)... Works fine with my home exposure and hand-washout methods. (Exposure
      time, good plate contact with the negative, washout time, are all rather
      critical but within reasonable limits. Water temperature and brushing motions, not
      so critical).

      Can you summarize the changes and/or supposed advantages of the more recent
      plate materials?
      Are the differences substantive or mainly proprietary-commercial?
      Are they developments due to machine exposure/washout conditions?

      Thanks, Tom



      In a message dated 1/10/2009 11:42:08 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
      Bieler@... writes:

      And Miraclon, man, that is way back there. Probably one of
      the first water-washouts. An oldie but goodie I suppose.

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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • parallel_imp
      ... Wow, that s pretty extreme. I ve only worked with BASF and Polimero machines, and neither had such a high temperature that you couldn t leave them on all
      Message 2 of 19 , Jan 11, 2009
        --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "vanhorn_k" <kvh@...> wrote:
        >
        > We have an Interflex brand from a few years ago...
        >
        > We learned the hard way one day not to leave it on and walk away - it cooked off all the
        > water proceeded to try to set dried polymer on fire.

        Wow, that's pretty extreme. I've only worked with BASF and Polimero machines, and neither
        had such a high temperature that you couldn't leave them on all day with minimal
        evaporation, at least with the lid closed. The Polimero machine has a safety that shuts off
        power if bath reaches a certain heat, as when someone turns it on without any water present.
        --Eric Holub, SF
      • vanhorn_k
        ... present. ... Yeah, I think our thermostat is broken. We got one of the first of these models available in the country... I ve dismantled it once or twice
        Message 3 of 19 , Jan 11, 2009
          > Wow, that's pretty extreme. I've only worked with BASF and Polimero machines, and neither
          > had such a high temperature that you couldn't leave them on all day with minimal
          > evaporation, at least with the lid closed. The Polimero machine has a safety that shuts off
          > power if bath reaches a certain heat, as when someone turns it on without any water
          present.
          > --Eric Holub, SF
          >

          Yeah, I think our thermostat is broken. We got one of the first of these models available in
          the country... I've dismantled it once or twice already. Clearly we've decided it's not a big
          deal.
        • Gerald Lange
          Hi Tom Not sure I can answer that question. Except maybe with an example. When Toyobo changed its formulation a few years ago, the processing times for
          Message 4 of 19 , Jan 11, 2009
            Hi Tom

            Not sure I can answer that question. Except maybe with an example.
            When Toyobo changed its formulation a few years ago, the processing
            times for exposure and washout were reduced. Which seems a good thing,
            energy wise, etc.

            Can't say I noticed an increase in quality but I certainly did notice
            there was no decrease. I picked up some of their technical studies
            that have a lot of comparison photos; I put a few of them up in the
            photo section a while back.

            The photos seem to reveal cleaner more refined structure. Less debris
            in the relief, less corrosion to the relief slope and printing
            surface. more defined relief slope and drainage, more accurately
            depicted printing surfaces, etc. At the microphotographic level it all
            looks like an inprovement. And, since that is where all the action
            takes place, I assume it is.

            Not sure why Toyobo felt compelled to reformulate an existing and
            successful product line but it may have something to do with the
            ongoing developments toward improving filmless direct-to-plate
            technology. That would seem to be the larger (future) market.

            Gerald
            http://BielerPress.blogspot.com


            --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, typetom@... wrote:
            >
            > Hi Gerald,
            > I have been using Miraclon from Gene Becker ever since (at least 7
            or 8
            > years)... Works fine with my home exposure and hand-washout methods.
            (Exposure
            > time, good plate contact with the negative, washout time, are all
            rather
            > critical but within reasonable limits. Water temperature and
            brushing motions, not
            > so critical).
            >
            > Can you summarize the changes and/or supposed advantages of the more
            recent
            > plate materials?
            > Are the differences substantive or mainly proprietary-commercial?
            > Are they developments due to machine exposure/washout conditions?
            >
            > Thanks, Tom
            >
            >
          • Lamsland
            great discussion guys. Thanks. My concern about the temp is I ll either have to get a mixing panel or just try and get it close with a thermometer and the
            Message 5 of 19 , Jan 12, 2009
              great discussion guys. Thanks. My concern about the temp is I'll
              either have to get a mixing panel or just try and get it close with a
              thermometer and the spigots. I'm sure the hot water in the house is
              hot enough (120 degrees) I was more curious how precise it needed to be.

              As for brushes, I can get an old matchprint developer/laminator
              machine. The small table top kind. O know it's not made for this use,
              but I like to tinker with machines and though it would be interesting
              to experiment with. Thus the question if rotary bushes would work.

              Matthew "LAMMY" Lamoureux
              Full Metal Press - Operis servo a specialis nundinae

              Where the press is free and every man able to read, all is safe.
              Thomas Jefferson

              On Jan 11, 2009, at 10:48 PM, vanhorn_k wrote:

              >
              > > Wow, that's pretty extreme. I've only worked with BASF and
              > Polimero machines, and neither
              > > had such a high temperature that you couldn't leave them on all
              > day with minimal
              > > evaporation, at least with the lid closed. The Polimero machine
              > has a safety that shuts off
              > > power if bath reaches a certain heat, as when someone turns it on
              > without any water
              > present.
              > > --Eric Holub, SF
              > >
              >
              > Yeah, I think our thermostat is broken. We got one of the first of
              > these models available in
              > the country... I've dismantled it once or twice already. Clearly
              > we've decided it's not a big
              > deal.
              >
              >
              >







              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • John G. Henry
              1. Water Temp -- Dan Mayer demonstrated his methods of plate development over the weekend at the College Book Arts Assoc. 1st Biennial Conference in Iowa City,
              Message 6 of 19 , Jan 12, 2009
                1. Water Temp -- Dan Mayer demonstrated his methods of plate
                development over the weekend at the College Book Arts Assoc. 1st
                Biennial Conference in Iowa City, IA. He indicated that he washed out
                his plates by hand using a stainless photographic developing tray in a
                sink with warm water running, in order to keep the temp somewhat
                consistent. (Same process used in photo print development by hand.)

                As to the motion of the brushes, or plate above the brushes, I assume
                the orbital motion eliminates the chance for individual brush tufts to
                continually interact with the same plate areas, causing the potential
                for brush action to be more aggressive in a circular pattern. When
                washing by hand, you would be wise to imitate the action of the machine
                and not use totally circular or horizontal & vertical strokes on a
                consistent basis.
              • Peter Fraterdeus
                ... Hi, John Sorry I missed Dan s demo on Saturday. I wonder if he has any online material for reference? I was interested in his use of stochastic patterns in
                Message 7 of 19 , Jan 12, 2009
                  On 12 Jan 2009, at 8:48 AM, John G. Henry wrote:

                  > 1. Water Temp -- Dan Mayer demonstrated his methods of plate
                  > development over the weekend at the College Book Arts Assoc. 1st
                  > Biennial Conference in Iowa City, IA. He indicated that he washed out
                  > his plates by hand using a stainless photographic developing tray in a
                  > sink with warm water running, in order to keep the temp somewhat
                  > consistent. (Same process used in photo print development by hand.)

                  Hi, John

                  Sorry I missed Dan's demo on Saturday.
                  I wonder if he has any online material for reference?
                  I was interested in his use of stochastic patterns in Photoshop.

                  Cheers
                  PF


                  Peter Fraterdeus
                  Almost Freeā„¢ Business Cards from Exquisite Letterpress
                  http://slowprint.com/almostfreelp

                  New! SlowPrint Newsletter!
                  Signup: http://tinyurl.com/slowprint
                  Current: http://slowprint.com/slowprintnl
                • Scott Golem
                  Hi, I just got involved with the PPLetterpress mailing list/running forum. I come from an intaglio and silkscreen art background. I am a little slow at text
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jan 15, 2009
                    Hi,

                    I just got involved with the PPLetterpress mailing list/running forum. I come from an intaglio and silkscreen art background. I am a little slow at text messaging, blogging etc.

                    The emails that I'm getting seem to be the answer to a question. How do you follow the trail backwards to get the whole story. Welcome to the 21 century.

                    SCott

                    Scott Golem, MFA Graphic Designer and Educator www.sgolem@... slgolem1@... 972-617-3864


                    --- On Mon, 1/12/09, John G. Henry <JohnH@...> wrote:

                    > From: John G. Henry <JohnH@...>
                    > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Wash out temp and brushes
                    > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                    > Date: Monday, January 12, 2009, 8:48 AM
                    > 1. Water Temp -- Dan Mayer demonstrated his methods of plate
                    >
                    > development over the weekend at the College Book Arts
                    > Assoc. 1st
                    > Biennial Conference in Iowa City, IA. He indicated that he
                    > washed out
                    > his plates by hand using a stainless photographic
                    > developing tray in a
                    > sink with warm water running, in order to keep the temp
                    > somewhat
                    > consistent. (Same process used in photo print development
                    > by hand.)
                    >
                    > As to the motion of the brushes, or plate above the
                    > brushes, I assume
                    > the orbital motion eliminates the chance for individual
                    > brush tufts to
                    > continually interact with the same plate areas, causing the
                    > potential
                    > for brush action to be more aggressive in a circular
                    > pattern. When
                    > washing by hand, you would be wise to imitate the action of
                    > the machine
                    > and not use totally circular or horizontal & vertical
                    > strokes on a
                    > consistent basis.
                  • Lamsland
                    easiest way is to actually go to yahoo s site. Find the groups link, then find the only for PPLetterpress. All the messages are there and you can do a search.
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jan 15, 2009
                      easiest way is to actually go to yahoo's site. Find the groups link,
                      then find the only for PPLetterpress. All the messages are there and
                      you can do a search. .


                      Matthew "LAMMY" Lamoureux
                      Full Metal Press - Operis servo a specialis nundinae

                      Where the press is free and every man able to read, all is safe.
                      Thomas Jefferson

                      On Jan 15, 2009, at 9:42 AM, Scott Golem wrote:

                      > Hi,
                      >
                      > I just got involved with the PPLetterpress mailing list/running
                      > forum. I come from an intaglio and silkscreen art background. I am
                      > a little slow at text messaging, blogging etc.
                      >
                      > The emails that I'm getting seem to be the answer to a question.
                      > How do you follow the trail backwards to get the whole story.
                      > Welcome to the 21 century.
                      >
                      > SCott
                      >
                      > Scott Golem, MFA Graphic Designer and Educator
                      > www.sgolem@...1@... 972-617-3864
                      >
                      > --- On Mon, 1/12/09, John G. Henry <JohnH@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > From: John G. Henry <JohnH@...>
                      > > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Wash out temp and brushes
                      > > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Date: Monday, January 12, 2009, 8:48 AM
                      > > 1. Water Temp -- Dan Mayer demonstrated his methods of plate
                      > >
                      > > development over the weekend at the College Book Arts
                      > > Assoc. 1st
                      > > Biennial Conference in Iowa City, IA. He indicated that he
                      > > washed out
                      > > his plates by hand using a stainless photographic
                      > > developing tray in a
                      > > sink with warm water running, in order to keep the temp
                      > > somewhat
                      > > consistent. (Same process used in photo print development
                      > > by hand.)
                      > >
                      > > As to the motion of the brushes, or plate above the
                      > > brushes, I assume
                      > > the orbital motion eliminates the chance for individual
                      > > brush tufts to
                      > > continually interact with the same plate areas, causing the
                      > > potential
                      > > for brush action to be more aggressive in a circular
                      > > pattern. When
                      > > washing by hand, you would be wise to imitate the action of
                      > > the machine
                      > > and not use totally circular or horizontal & vertical
                      > > strokes on a
                      > > consistent basis.
                      >
                      >





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Gerald Lange
                      Scott Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PPLetterpress Sign in (you wll need a Yahoo ID), then click on Messages (side panel). This will bring up current
                      Message 10 of 19 , Jan 15, 2009
                        Scott

                        Go to

                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PPLetterpress

                        Sign in (you wll need a Yahoo ID), then click on Messages (side panel).
                        This will bring up current messages (as well as a search box). You can
                        click on a message and its complete thread will be indexed below it.

                        Gerald
                        PPL

                        Scott Golem wrote:
                        > Hi,
                        >
                        > I just got involved with the PPLetterpress mailing list/running forum. I come from an intaglio and silkscreen art background. I am a little slow at text messaging, blogging etc.
                        >
                        > The emails that I'm getting seem to be the answer to a question. How do you follow the trail backwards to get the whole story. Welcome to the 21 century.
                        >
                        > SCott
                        >
                        > Scott Golem, MFA Graphic Designer and Educator www.sgolem@... slgolem1@... 972-617-3864
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Scott Golem
                        Gerald, Thanks for the info. I ll try it tomorrow. Scott Scott Golem, MFA Graphic Designer and Educator www.sgolem@westwood.edu slgolem1@sbcglobal.net
                        Message 11 of 19 , Jan 15, 2009
                          Gerald,

                          Thanks for the info. I'll try it tomorrow.

                          Scott

                          Scott Golem, MFA Graphic Designer and Educator www.sgolem@... slgolem1@... 972-617-3864


                          --- On Thu, 1/15/09, Gerald Lange <Bieler@...> wrote:

                          > From: Gerald Lange <Bieler@...>
                          > Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Wash out temp and brushes
                          > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                          > Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 11:23 AM
                          > Scott
                          >
                          > Go to
                          >
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PPLetterpress
                          >
                          > Sign in (you wll need a Yahoo ID), then click on Messages
                          > (side panel).
                          > This will bring up current messages (as well as a search
                          > box). You can
                          > click on a message and its complete thread will be indexed
                          > below it.
                          >
                          > Gerald
                          > PPL
                          >
                          > Scott Golem wrote:
                          > > Hi,
                          > >
                          > > I just got involved with the PPLetterpress mailing
                          > list/running forum. I come from an intaglio and silkscreen
                          > art background. I am a little slow at text messaging,
                          > blogging etc.
                          > >
                          > > The emails that I'm getting seem to be the answer
                          > to a question. How do you follow the trail backwards to get
                          > the whole story. Welcome to the 21 century.
                          > >
                          > > SCott
                          > >
                          > > Scott Golem, MFA Graphic Designer and Educator
                          > www.sgolem@... slgolem1@...
                          > 972-617-3864
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                        • Graham and Kathy
                          ... Boy oh boy, don t you wish that was true! Graham Moss Incline Press 36 Bow Street Oldham OL1 1SJ England http://www.inclinepress.com
                          Message 12 of 19 , Jan 16, 2009
                            On 15/1/09 15:08, "Lamsland" <lamsland1@...> wrote:

                            > Where the press is free and every man able to read, all is safe.
                            > Thomas Jefferson


                            Boy oh boy, don't you wish that was true!


                            Graham Moss

                            Incline Press
                            36 Bow Street
                            Oldham OL1 1SJ England

                            http://www.inclinepress.com
                          • Lamsland
                            instead of able to read maybe he should have said bothers to read ??? ;) ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            Message 13 of 19 , Jan 16, 2009
                              instead of able to read maybe he should have said "bothers to
                              read" ??? ;)


                              On Jan 16, 2009, at 11:18 AM, Graham and Kathy wrote:

                              >
                              >
                              > On 15/1/09 15:08, "Lamsland" <lamsland1@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > > Where the press is free and every man able to read, all is safe.
                              > > Thomas Jefferson
                              >
                              > Boy oh boy, don't you wish that was true!
                              >
                              > Graham Moss
                              >
                              > Incline Press
                              > 36 Bow Street
                              > Oldham OL1 1SJ England
                              >
                              > http://www.inclinepress.com
                              >
                              >



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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