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Re: Wash out temp and brushes

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  • vanhorn_k
    We have an Interflex brand from a few years ago... We learned the hard way one day not to leave it on and walk away - it cooked off all the water proceeded to
    Message 1 of 19 , Jan 11, 2009
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      We have an Interflex brand from a few years ago...

      We learned the hard way one day not to leave it on and walk away - it cooked off all the
      water proceeded to try to set dried polymer on fire. From then on we just turned off the
      heater and do all our washouts in cold water... Cold cold. Probably 40-60 degrees,
      depending on the season.

      It takes longer, but I have never lost a 1/4 pt line, serif, or apostrophe... and we've burned
      down to 4pt. type before.

      On the other hand, perhaps some warmer water would speed up the washout... Most plates
      wash in the 7-9 min range, depending on what the students have done with the brush
      height.

      uɹoɥ uɐʌ əןλʞ
      http://www.kylevanhorn.com
    • parallel_imp
      ... Actually, my first Miraclon plates came from a rubber stamp supplier who sold THEM as molding plates. I stayed with Miraclon, from Becker, for years. While
      Message 2 of 19 , Jan 11, 2009
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        --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@...> wrote:
        >
        > Eric
        >
        > Are you using Rigilon for letterpress plates? Aren't these for
        > moulding? And Miraclon, man, that is way back there.

        Actually, my first Miraclon plates came from a rubber stamp supplier
        who sold THEM as molding plates. I stayed with Miraclon, from Becker,
        for years. While working at a place that used MLD plates, our supplier
        A-V started shipping Rigilon HX 145 instead of MLD. I switched to HX
        myself, and it happens that some well-known deep-impression job
        printers in the area were already using it. It has a matte surface for
        better drawdown without matte film, and it has a contrasting surface
        that is easy to read; flaws on the all-yellow Miraclon are tricky to
        detect.
        But I have started using Miraclon again, the DS 100, which thickness
        mounts nicely on blank Linotype slugs in a mixed form. It also holds
        detail well; I reproduced some old wood engravings in it, and a single
        exposure held shadow, mid, and highlight detail. In the past, with
        thicker plates, I have needed masking and multiple exposures for such
        images.
        --Eric Holub, SF
      • typetom@aol.com
        Hi Gerald, I have been using Miraclon from Gene Becker ever since (at least 7 or 8 years)... Works fine with my home exposure and hand-washout methods.
        Message 3 of 19 , Jan 11, 2009
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          Hi Gerald,
          I have been using Miraclon from Gene Becker ever since (at least 7 or 8
          years)... Works fine with my home exposure and hand-washout methods. (Exposure
          time, good plate contact with the negative, washout time, are all rather
          critical but within reasonable limits. Water temperature and brushing motions, not
          so critical).

          Can you summarize the changes and/or supposed advantages of the more recent
          plate materials?
          Are the differences substantive or mainly proprietary-commercial?
          Are they developments due to machine exposure/washout conditions?

          Thanks, Tom



          In a message dated 1/10/2009 11:42:08 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
          Bieler@... writes:

          And Miraclon, man, that is way back there. Probably one of
          the first water-washouts. An oldie but goodie I suppose.

          **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • parallel_imp
          ... Wow, that s pretty extreme. I ve only worked with BASF and Polimero machines, and neither had such a high temperature that you couldn t leave them on all
          Message 4 of 19 , Jan 11, 2009
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            --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "vanhorn_k" <kvh@...> wrote:
            >
            > We have an Interflex brand from a few years ago...
            >
            > We learned the hard way one day not to leave it on and walk away - it cooked off all the
            > water proceeded to try to set dried polymer on fire.

            Wow, that's pretty extreme. I've only worked with BASF and Polimero machines, and neither
            had such a high temperature that you couldn't leave them on all day with minimal
            evaporation, at least with the lid closed. The Polimero machine has a safety that shuts off
            power if bath reaches a certain heat, as when someone turns it on without any water present.
            --Eric Holub, SF
          • vanhorn_k
            ... present. ... Yeah, I think our thermostat is broken. We got one of the first of these models available in the country... I ve dismantled it once or twice
            Message 5 of 19 , Jan 11, 2009
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              > Wow, that's pretty extreme. I've only worked with BASF and Polimero machines, and neither
              > had such a high temperature that you couldn't leave them on all day with minimal
              > evaporation, at least with the lid closed. The Polimero machine has a safety that shuts off
              > power if bath reaches a certain heat, as when someone turns it on without any water
              present.
              > --Eric Holub, SF
              >

              Yeah, I think our thermostat is broken. We got one of the first of these models available in
              the country... I've dismantled it once or twice already. Clearly we've decided it's not a big
              deal.
            • Gerald Lange
              Hi Tom Not sure I can answer that question. Except maybe with an example. When Toyobo changed its formulation a few years ago, the processing times for
              Message 6 of 19 , Jan 11, 2009
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                Hi Tom

                Not sure I can answer that question. Except maybe with an example.
                When Toyobo changed its formulation a few years ago, the processing
                times for exposure and washout were reduced. Which seems a good thing,
                energy wise, etc.

                Can't say I noticed an increase in quality but I certainly did notice
                there was no decrease. I picked up some of their technical studies
                that have a lot of comparison photos; I put a few of them up in the
                photo section a while back.

                The photos seem to reveal cleaner more refined structure. Less debris
                in the relief, less corrosion to the relief slope and printing
                surface. more defined relief slope and drainage, more accurately
                depicted printing surfaces, etc. At the microphotographic level it all
                looks like an inprovement. And, since that is where all the action
                takes place, I assume it is.

                Not sure why Toyobo felt compelled to reformulate an existing and
                successful product line but it may have something to do with the
                ongoing developments toward improving filmless direct-to-plate
                technology. That would seem to be the larger (future) market.

                Gerald
                http://BielerPress.blogspot.com


                --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, typetom@... wrote:
                >
                > Hi Gerald,
                > I have been using Miraclon from Gene Becker ever since (at least 7
                or 8
                > years)... Works fine with my home exposure and hand-washout methods.
                (Exposure
                > time, good plate contact with the negative, washout time, are all
                rather
                > critical but within reasonable limits. Water temperature and
                brushing motions, not
                > so critical).
                >
                > Can you summarize the changes and/or supposed advantages of the more
                recent
                > plate materials?
                > Are the differences substantive or mainly proprietary-commercial?
                > Are they developments due to machine exposure/washout conditions?
                >
                > Thanks, Tom
                >
                >
              • Lamsland
                great discussion guys. Thanks. My concern about the temp is I ll either have to get a mixing panel or just try and get it close with a thermometer and the
                Message 7 of 19 , Jan 12, 2009
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                  great discussion guys. Thanks. My concern about the temp is I'll
                  either have to get a mixing panel or just try and get it close with a
                  thermometer and the spigots. I'm sure the hot water in the house is
                  hot enough (120 degrees) I was more curious how precise it needed to be.

                  As for brushes, I can get an old matchprint developer/laminator
                  machine. The small table top kind. O know it's not made for this use,
                  but I like to tinker with machines and though it would be interesting
                  to experiment with. Thus the question if rotary bushes would work.

                  Matthew "LAMMY" Lamoureux
                  Full Metal Press - Operis servo a specialis nundinae

                  Where the press is free and every man able to read, all is safe.
                  Thomas Jefferson

                  On Jan 11, 2009, at 10:48 PM, vanhorn_k wrote:

                  >
                  > > Wow, that's pretty extreme. I've only worked with BASF and
                  > Polimero machines, and neither
                  > > had such a high temperature that you couldn't leave them on all
                  > day with minimal
                  > > evaporation, at least with the lid closed. The Polimero machine
                  > has a safety that shuts off
                  > > power if bath reaches a certain heat, as when someone turns it on
                  > without any water
                  > present.
                  > > --Eric Holub, SF
                  > >
                  >
                  > Yeah, I think our thermostat is broken. We got one of the first of
                  > these models available in
                  > the country... I've dismantled it once or twice already. Clearly
                  > we've decided it's not a big
                  > deal.
                  >
                  >
                  >







                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • John G. Henry
                  1. Water Temp -- Dan Mayer demonstrated his methods of plate development over the weekend at the College Book Arts Assoc. 1st Biennial Conference in Iowa City,
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jan 12, 2009
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                    1. Water Temp -- Dan Mayer demonstrated his methods of plate
                    development over the weekend at the College Book Arts Assoc. 1st
                    Biennial Conference in Iowa City, IA. He indicated that he washed out
                    his plates by hand using a stainless photographic developing tray in a
                    sink with warm water running, in order to keep the temp somewhat
                    consistent. (Same process used in photo print development by hand.)

                    As to the motion of the brushes, or plate above the brushes, I assume
                    the orbital motion eliminates the chance for individual brush tufts to
                    continually interact with the same plate areas, causing the potential
                    for brush action to be more aggressive in a circular pattern. When
                    washing by hand, you would be wise to imitate the action of the machine
                    and not use totally circular or horizontal & vertical strokes on a
                    consistent basis.
                  • Peter Fraterdeus
                    ... Hi, John Sorry I missed Dan s demo on Saturday. I wonder if he has any online material for reference? I was interested in his use of stochastic patterns in
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jan 12, 2009
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                      On 12 Jan 2009, at 8:48 AM, John G. Henry wrote:

                      > 1. Water Temp -- Dan Mayer demonstrated his methods of plate
                      > development over the weekend at the College Book Arts Assoc. 1st
                      > Biennial Conference in Iowa City, IA. He indicated that he washed out
                      > his plates by hand using a stainless photographic developing tray in a
                      > sink with warm water running, in order to keep the temp somewhat
                      > consistent. (Same process used in photo print development by hand.)

                      Hi, John

                      Sorry I missed Dan's demo on Saturday.
                      I wonder if he has any online material for reference?
                      I was interested in his use of stochastic patterns in Photoshop.

                      Cheers
                      PF


                      Peter Fraterdeus
                      Almost Freeā„¢ Business Cards from Exquisite Letterpress
                      http://slowprint.com/almostfreelp

                      New! SlowPrint Newsletter!
                      Signup: http://tinyurl.com/slowprint
                      Current: http://slowprint.com/slowprintnl
                    • Scott Golem
                      Hi, I just got involved with the PPLetterpress mailing list/running forum. I come from an intaglio and silkscreen art background. I am a little slow at text
                      Message 10 of 19 , Jan 15, 2009
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                        Hi,

                        I just got involved with the PPLetterpress mailing list/running forum. I come from an intaglio and silkscreen art background. I am a little slow at text messaging, blogging etc.

                        The emails that I'm getting seem to be the answer to a question. How do you follow the trail backwards to get the whole story. Welcome to the 21 century.

                        SCott

                        Scott Golem, MFA Graphic Designer and Educator www.sgolem@... slgolem1@... 972-617-3864


                        --- On Mon, 1/12/09, John G. Henry <JohnH@...> wrote:

                        > From: John G. Henry <JohnH@...>
                        > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Wash out temp and brushes
                        > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                        > Date: Monday, January 12, 2009, 8:48 AM
                        > 1. Water Temp -- Dan Mayer demonstrated his methods of plate
                        >
                        > development over the weekend at the College Book Arts
                        > Assoc. 1st
                        > Biennial Conference in Iowa City, IA. He indicated that he
                        > washed out
                        > his plates by hand using a stainless photographic
                        > developing tray in a
                        > sink with warm water running, in order to keep the temp
                        > somewhat
                        > consistent. (Same process used in photo print development
                        > by hand.)
                        >
                        > As to the motion of the brushes, or plate above the
                        > brushes, I assume
                        > the orbital motion eliminates the chance for individual
                        > brush tufts to
                        > continually interact with the same plate areas, causing the
                        > potential
                        > for brush action to be more aggressive in a circular
                        > pattern. When
                        > washing by hand, you would be wise to imitate the action of
                        > the machine
                        > and not use totally circular or horizontal & vertical
                        > strokes on a
                        > consistent basis.
                      • Lamsland
                        easiest way is to actually go to yahoo s site. Find the groups link, then find the only for PPLetterpress. All the messages are there and you can do a search.
                        Message 11 of 19 , Jan 15, 2009
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                          easiest way is to actually go to yahoo's site. Find the groups link,
                          then find the only for PPLetterpress. All the messages are there and
                          you can do a search. .


                          Matthew "LAMMY" Lamoureux
                          Full Metal Press - Operis servo a specialis nundinae

                          Where the press is free and every man able to read, all is safe.
                          Thomas Jefferson

                          On Jan 15, 2009, at 9:42 AM, Scott Golem wrote:

                          > Hi,
                          >
                          > I just got involved with the PPLetterpress mailing list/running
                          > forum. I come from an intaglio and silkscreen art background. I am
                          > a little slow at text messaging, blogging etc.
                          >
                          > The emails that I'm getting seem to be the answer to a question.
                          > How do you follow the trail backwards to get the whole story.
                          > Welcome to the 21 century.
                          >
                          > SCott
                          >
                          > Scott Golem, MFA Graphic Designer and Educator
                          > www.sgolem@...1@... 972-617-3864
                          >
                          > --- On Mon, 1/12/09, John G. Henry <JohnH@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > From: John G. Henry <JohnH@...>
                          > > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Wash out temp and brushes
                          > > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                          > > Date: Monday, January 12, 2009, 8:48 AM
                          > > 1. Water Temp -- Dan Mayer demonstrated his methods of plate
                          > >
                          > > development over the weekend at the College Book Arts
                          > > Assoc. 1st
                          > > Biennial Conference in Iowa City, IA. He indicated that he
                          > > washed out
                          > > his plates by hand using a stainless photographic
                          > > developing tray in a
                          > > sink with warm water running, in order to keep the temp
                          > > somewhat
                          > > consistent. (Same process used in photo print development
                          > > by hand.)
                          > >
                          > > As to the motion of the brushes, or plate above the
                          > > brushes, I assume
                          > > the orbital motion eliminates the chance for individual
                          > > brush tufts to
                          > > continually interact with the same plate areas, causing the
                          > > potential
                          > > for brush action to be more aggressive in a circular
                          > > pattern. When
                          > > washing by hand, you would be wise to imitate the action of
                          > > the machine
                          > > and not use totally circular or horizontal & vertical
                          > > strokes on a
                          > > consistent basis.
                          >
                          >





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Gerald Lange
                          Scott Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PPLetterpress Sign in (you wll need a Yahoo ID), then click on Messages (side panel). This will bring up current
                          Message 12 of 19 , Jan 15, 2009
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                            Scott

                            Go to

                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PPLetterpress

                            Sign in (you wll need a Yahoo ID), then click on Messages (side panel).
                            This will bring up current messages (as well as a search box). You can
                            click on a message and its complete thread will be indexed below it.

                            Gerald
                            PPL

                            Scott Golem wrote:
                            > Hi,
                            >
                            > I just got involved with the PPLetterpress mailing list/running forum. I come from an intaglio and silkscreen art background. I am a little slow at text messaging, blogging etc.
                            >
                            > The emails that I'm getting seem to be the answer to a question. How do you follow the trail backwards to get the whole story. Welcome to the 21 century.
                            >
                            > SCott
                            >
                            > Scott Golem, MFA Graphic Designer and Educator www.sgolem@... slgolem1@... 972-617-3864
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Scott Golem
                            Gerald, Thanks for the info. I ll try it tomorrow. Scott Scott Golem, MFA Graphic Designer and Educator www.sgolem@westwood.edu slgolem1@sbcglobal.net
                            Message 13 of 19 , Jan 15, 2009
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                              Gerald,

                              Thanks for the info. I'll try it tomorrow.

                              Scott

                              Scott Golem, MFA Graphic Designer and Educator www.sgolem@... slgolem1@... 972-617-3864


                              --- On Thu, 1/15/09, Gerald Lange <Bieler@...> wrote:

                              > From: Gerald Lange <Bieler@...>
                              > Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Wash out temp and brushes
                              > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                              > Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 11:23 AM
                              > Scott
                              >
                              > Go to
                              >
                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PPLetterpress
                              >
                              > Sign in (you wll need a Yahoo ID), then click on Messages
                              > (side panel).
                              > This will bring up current messages (as well as a search
                              > box). You can
                              > click on a message and its complete thread will be indexed
                              > below it.
                              >
                              > Gerald
                              > PPL
                              >
                              > Scott Golem wrote:
                              > > Hi,
                              > >
                              > > I just got involved with the PPLetterpress mailing
                              > list/running forum. I come from an intaglio and silkscreen
                              > art background. I am a little slow at text messaging,
                              > blogging etc.
                              > >
                              > > The emails that I'm getting seem to be the answer
                              > to a question. How do you follow the trail backwards to get
                              > the whole story. Welcome to the 21 century.
                              > >
                              > > SCott
                              > >
                              > > Scott Golem, MFA Graphic Designer and Educator
                              > www.sgolem@... slgolem1@...
                              > 972-617-3864
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                            • Graham and Kathy
                              ... Boy oh boy, don t you wish that was true! Graham Moss Incline Press 36 Bow Street Oldham OL1 1SJ England http://www.inclinepress.com
                              Message 14 of 19 , Jan 16, 2009
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                                On 15/1/09 15:08, "Lamsland" <lamsland1@...> wrote:

                                > Where the press is free and every man able to read, all is safe.
                                > Thomas Jefferson


                                Boy oh boy, don't you wish that was true!


                                Graham Moss

                                Incline Press
                                36 Bow Street
                                Oldham OL1 1SJ England

                                http://www.inclinepress.com
                              • Lamsland
                                instead of able to read maybe he should have said bothers to read ??? ;) ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                Message 15 of 19 , Jan 16, 2009
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                                  instead of able to read maybe he should have said "bothers to
                                  read" ??? ;)


                                  On Jan 16, 2009, at 11:18 AM, Graham and Kathy wrote:

                                  >
                                  >
                                  > On 15/1/09 15:08, "Lamsland" <lamsland1@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > Where the press is free and every man able to read, all is safe.
                                  > > Thomas Jefferson
                                  >
                                  > Boy oh boy, don't you wish that was true!
                                  >
                                  > Graham Moss
                                  >
                                  > Incline Press
                                  > 36 Bow Street
                                  > Oldham OL1 1SJ England
                                  >
                                  > http://www.inclinepress.com
                                  >
                                  >



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