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Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Hot metal type

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  • leorawest@yahoo.com
    Whoa! And, huh? Tell us more! Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T ... From: Gerald Lange Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:43:30 To:
    Message 1 of 25 , Dec 10, 2008
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      Whoa! And, huh? Tell us more!

      Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

      -----Original Message-----
      From: "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@...>

      Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:43:30
      To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Hot metal type


      Peter

      :�) Just a note, photopolymer plates are also used for hot foil
      stamping. Bunting makes a special base for this and the plates that
      are designated for it are processed slightly differently. Just to say
      PP is there as well, not exclusively metal!!!!

      Gerald


      --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@...> wrote:
      >
      > On 10 Dec 2008, at 6:11 PM, Richard Kegler wrote:
      >
      > > Ludlow is still used for foil stamping. If it starts to wear down,
      > > just have
      > > a backup or two cast.
      > >
      > > We will be offering this as a service through the Western NY Book Arts
      > > Collaborative for people who want Ludlow lines cast.
      > >
      > > Our library is about 100 fonts right now:
      > > http://www.wnybookarts.org/ludlow.php
      > >
      > > Richard Kegler
      > > -----------------------------
      >
      >
      > Richard--
      >
      > Bravo bravo ;-)
      >
      > I am so happy to see letterpress/book arts collectives popping up east
      > of the Rockies!
      >
      > The Dubuque Book Arts Center (under construction) salutes you!!
      >
      > We don't do hot metal, although we (sadly) just had to pass on a whole
      > shop full of ludlow stuff (near Minneapolis - we'll get the Heidelberg
      > and the Miehle V45. Just couldn't manage the whole shebang)
      >
      > Our good friend and fellow traveler Tim Fay down in Anamosa produces
      > his annual Wapsipinicon Almanac directly from Linotype metal (set and
      > cast in his shop). (On a 20x26 two-color Miller Cylinder, no less).
      > Highly recommended both for the type and the content, which is top-
      > drawer... so to speak. There's a brand new issue out this week!
      >
      > http://wapsi-almanac.com
      >
      > BTW, Tim's also a photopolymer user, just to stay on topic
      >
      > PF
      >
      > >
      > >
      >
      > Peter Fraterdeus
      > Exquisite Letterpress
      > http://slowprint.com
      >
      > New! SlowPrint Newsletter!
      > Signup: http://tinyurl.com/slowprint
      > Current: http://slowprint.com/slowprintnl
      >





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Gerald Lange
      Leorawest No one has ever said whoa and huh before but I thought this was common knowledge for some many years now. I have had an occasional inquiry about
      Message 2 of 25 , Dec 10, 2008
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        Leorawest

        No one has ever said "whoa" and "huh" before but I thought this was
        common knowledge for some many years now. I have had an occasional
        inquiry about photopolymer plates for this purpose, and have gone
        through the motions, but I think it is likely more for commercial
        industrial practice, meaning, more expensive than existing metal
        practice, at least, at the outlay. Photoengravers who belatedly caught
        on to the concept of accepting digital files (as opposed to camera
        ready) sort of make the advantages of this mute (I suspect?). At
        least, as long as they are viable.


        Gerald


        --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, leorawest@... wrote:
        >
        > Whoa! And, huh? Tell us more!
        >
        > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@...>
        >
        > Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:43:30
        > To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
        > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Hot metal type
        >
        >
        > Peter
        >
        > :—) Just a note, photopolymer plates are also used for hot foil
        > stamping. Bunting makes a special base for this and the plates that
        > are designated for it are processed slightly differently. Just to say
        > PP is there as well, not exclusively metal!!!!
        >
        > Gerald
        >
        >
        > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@> wrote:
        > >
        > > On 10 Dec 2008, at 6:11 PM, Richard Kegler wrote:
        > >
        > > > Ludlow is still used for foil stamping. If it starts to wear down,
        > > > just have
        > > > a backup or two cast.
        > > >
        > > > We will be offering this as a service through the Western NY
        Book Arts
        > > > Collaborative for people who want Ludlow lines cast.
        > > >
        > > > Our library is about 100 fonts right now:
        > > > http://www.wnybookarts.org/ludlow.php
        > > >
        > > > Richard Kegler
        > > > -----------------------------
        > >
        > >
        > > Richard--
        > >
        > > Bravo bravo ;-)
        > >
        > > I am so happy to see letterpress/book arts collectives popping up
        east
        > > of the Rockies!
        > >
        > > The Dubuque Book Arts Center (under construction) salutes you!!
        > >
        > > We don't do hot metal, although we (sadly) just had to pass on a
        whole
        > > shop full of ludlow stuff (near Minneapolis - we'll get the
        Heidelberg
        > > and the Miehle V45. Just couldn't manage the whole shebang)
        > >
        > > Our good friend and fellow traveler Tim Fay down in Anamosa produces
        > > his annual Wapsipinicon Almanac directly from Linotype metal (set
        and
        > > cast in his shop). (On a 20x26 two-color Miller Cylinder, no less).
        > > Highly recommended both for the type and the content, which is top-
        > > drawer... so to speak. There's a brand new issue out this week!
        > >
        > > http://wapsi-almanac.com
        > >
        > > BTW, Tim's also a photopolymer user, just to stay on topic
        > >
        > > PF
        > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > > Peter Fraterdeus
        > > Exquisite Letterpress
        > > http://slowprint.com
        > >
        > > New! SlowPrint Newsletter!
        > > Signup: http://tinyurl.com/slowprint
        > > Current: http://slowprint.com/slowprintnl
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Scott Rubel
        It may be common knowledge, but not to me. How does polymer stand up to heat? I m going to have to heat up one of my plates and see how it acts. I would assume
        Message 3 of 25 , Dec 11, 2008
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          It may be common knowledge, but not to me. How does polymer stand up to
          heat? I'm going to have to heat up one of my plates and see how it acts.
          I would assume everything would get soft and sticky, but you know what
          they say about assuming. --Scott

          Gerald Lange wrote:
          > Leorawest
          >
          > No one has ever said "whoa" and "huh" before but I thought this was
          > common knowledge for some many years now. I have had an occasional
          > inquiry about photopolymer plates for this purpose, and have gone
          > through the motions, but I think it is likely more for commercial
          > industrial practice, meaning, more expensive than existing metal
          > practice, at least, at the outlay. Photoengravers who belatedly caught
          > on to the concept of accepting digital files (as opposed to camera
          > ready) sort of make the advantages of this mute (I suspect?). At
          > least, as long as they are viable.
          >
          >
          > Gerald
          >
          >
          > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, leorawest@... wrote:
          >
          >> Whoa! And, huh? Tell us more!
          >>
          >> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
          >>
          >> -----Original Message-----
          >> From: "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@...>
          >>
          >> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:43:30
          >> To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
          >> Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Hot metal type
          >>
          >>
          >> Peter
          >>
          >> :---) Just a note, photopolymer plates are also used for hot foil
          >> stamping. Bunting makes a special base for this and the plates that
          >> are designated for it are processed slightly differently. Just to say
          >> PP is there as well, not exclusively metal!!!!
          >>
          >> Gerald
          >>
          >>
          >> --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@> wrote:
          >>
          >>> On 10 Dec 2008, at 6:11 PM, Richard Kegler wrote:
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>> Ludlow is still used for foil stamping. If it starts to wear down,
          >>>> just have
          >>>> a backup or two cast.
          >>>>
          >>>> We will be offering this as a service through the Western NY
          >>>>
          > Book Arts
          >
          >>>> Collaborative for people who want Ludlow lines cast.
          >>>>
          >>>> Our library is about 100 fonts right now:
          >>>> http://www.wnybookarts.org/ludlow.php
          >>>>
          >>>> Richard Kegler
          >>>> -----------------------------
          >>>>
          >>> Richard--
          >>>
          >>> Bravo bravo ;-)
          >>>
          >>> I am so happy to see letterpress/book arts collectives popping up
          >>>
          > east
          >
          >>> of the Rockies!
          >>>
          >>> The Dubuque Book Arts Center (under construction) salutes you!!
          >>>
          >>> We don't do hot metal, although we (sadly) just had to pass on a
          >>>
          > whole
          >
          >>> shop full of ludlow stuff (near Minneapolis - we'll get the
          >>>
          > Heidelberg
          >
          >>> and the Miehle V45. Just couldn't manage the whole shebang)
          >>>
          >>> Our good friend and fellow traveler Tim Fay down in Anamosa produces
          >>> his annual Wapsipinicon Almanac directly from Linotype metal (set
          >>>
          > and
          >
          >>> cast in his shop). (On a 20x26 two-color Miller Cylinder, no less).
          >>> Highly recommended both for the type and the content, which is top-
          >>> drawer... so to speak. There's a brand new issue out this week!
          >>>
          >>> http://wapsi-almanac.com
          >>>
          >>> BTW, Tim's also a photopolymer user, just to stay on topic
          >>>
          >>> PF
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>>
          >>> Peter Fraterdeus
          >>> Exquisite Letterpress
          >>> http://slowprint.com
          >>>
          >>> New! SlowPrint Newsletter!
          >>> Signup: http://tinyurl.com/slowprint
          >>> Current: http://slowprint.com/slowprintnl
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >>>
          >>>
          >>>
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • rgraphix214
          Thanks to all of you for taking the time to give your input. Very refreshing! Several links were passed on to our customer. This was an educational process.
          Message 4 of 25 , Dec 11, 2008
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            Thanks to all of you for taking the time to give your input. Very refreshing!

            Several links were passed on to our customer. This was an educational process.

            Dick

            --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "rgraphix214" <deystad@...> wrote:
            >
            > A customer of ours needs some hot metal type. I found a place in San Francisco (M&H) that
            > does it, but is there somewhere in the midwest still doing it.
            >
            > The customer wants to use it for foil stamping. Does doing hot foil stamping with lead type
            > make sense? We make hot foil stamping dies, but we treasure our fingers too much to try
            > cutting out dies of individual letters/numbers at 12 pt.
            >
          • Gerald Lange
            Scott Photopolymer plates are available for hot foil stamping at up to 350 degrees F on an aluminum base. Bunting Magnetics supplies bases for this purpose.
            Message 5 of 25 , Dec 11, 2008
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              Scott

              Photopolymer plates are available for hot foil stamping at up to 350
              degrees F on an aluminum base. Bunting Magnetics supplies bases for
              this purpose. Plates used in this type of application are mounted with
              3M film adhesive to .010 tin plate. Bunting not only makes aluminum
              bases, they also manufacture steel and zinc bases specifically for
              combination hot foil stamping and diecutting operations.

              I suspect standard plates configured for letterpress aren't quite
              going to maintain their rigidity at this temperature.

              Gerald
              http://BielerPress.blogspot.com

              --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Scott Rubel <scott@...> wrote:
              >
              > It may be common knowledge, but not to me. How does polymer stand up to
              > heat? I'm going to have to heat up one of my plates and see how it
              acts.
              > I would assume everything would get soft and sticky, but you know what
              > they say about assuming. --Scott
              >
              > Gerald Lange wrote:
              > > Leorawest
              > >
              > > No one has ever said "whoa" and "huh" before but I thought this was
              > > common knowledge for some many years now. I have had an occasional
              > > inquiry about photopolymer plates for this purpose, and have gone
              > > through the motions, but I think it is likely more for commercial
              > > industrial practice, meaning, more expensive than existing metal
              > > practice, at least, at the outlay. Photoengravers who belatedly caught
              > > on to the concept of accepting digital files (as opposed to camera
              > > ready) sort of make the advantages of this mute (I suspect?). At
              > > least, as long as they are viable.
              > >
              > >
              > > Gerald
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, leorawest@ wrote:
              > >
              > >> Whoa! And, huh? Tell us more!
              > >>
              > >> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
              > >>
              > >> -----Original Message-----
              > >> From: "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@>
              > >>
              > >> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:43:30
              > >> To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
              > >> Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Hot metal type
              > >>
              > >>
              > >> Peter
              > >>
              > >> :---) Just a note, photopolymer plates are also used for hot foil
              > >> stamping. Bunting makes a special base for this and the plates that
              > >> are designated for it are processed slightly differently. Just to say
              > >> PP is there as well, not exclusively metal!!!!
              > >>
              > >> Gerald
              > >>
              > >>
              > >> --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@>
              wrote:
              > >>
              > >>> On 10 Dec 2008, at 6:11 PM, Richard Kegler wrote:
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>> Ludlow is still used for foil stamping. If it starts to wear
              down,
              > >>>> just have
              > >>>> a backup or two cast.
              > >>>>
              > >>>> We will be offering this as a service through the Western NY
              > >>>>
              > > Book Arts
              > >
              > >>>> Collaborative for people who want Ludlow lines cast.
              > >>>>
              > >>>> Our library is about 100 fonts right now:
              > >>>> http://www.wnybookarts.org/ludlow.php
              > >>>>
              > >>>> Richard Kegler
              > >>>> -----------------------------
              > >>>>
              > >>> Richard--
              > >>>
              > >>> Bravo bravo ;-)
              > >>>
              > >>> I am so happy to see letterpress/book arts collectives popping up
              > >>>
              > > east
              > >
              > >>> of the Rockies!
              > >>>
              > >>> The Dubuque Book Arts Center (under construction) salutes you!!
              > >>>
              > >>> We don't do hot metal, although we (sadly) just had to pass on a
              > >>>
              > > whole
              > >
              > >>> shop full of ludlow stuff (near Minneapolis - we'll get the
              > >>>
              > > Heidelberg
              > >
              > >>> and the Miehle V45. Just couldn't manage the whole shebang)
              > >>>
              > >>> Our good friend and fellow traveler Tim Fay down in Anamosa
              produces
              > >>> his annual Wapsipinicon Almanac directly from Linotype metal (set
              > >>>
              > > and
              > >
              > >>> cast in his shop). (On a 20x26 two-color Miller Cylinder, no
              less).
              > >>> Highly recommended both for the type and the content, which is top-
              > >>> drawer... so to speak. There's a brand new issue out this week!
              > >>>
              > >>> http://wapsi-almanac.com
              > >>>
              > >>> BTW, Tim's also a photopolymer user, just to stay on topic
              > >>>
              > >>> PF
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>>
              > >>> Peter Fraterdeus
              > >>> Exquisite Letterpress
              > >>> http://slowprint.com
              > >>>
              > >>> New! SlowPrint Newsletter!
              > >>> Signup: http://tinyurl.com/slowprint
              > >>> Current: http://slowprint.com/slowprintnl
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >>>
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • amy borezo
              Hello, I have been buying metal type recently for foil stamping as well. Brass type is the best for foil stamping, followed by service type, followed by
              Message 6 of 25 , Dec 11, 2008
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                Hello,

                I have been buying metal type recently for foil stamping as well. Brass type
                is the best for foil stamping, followed by service type, followed by foundry
                type (And the prices follow the order of hardness!). Monotype is not usable
                for foil stamping and distorts after one hit. The foundry type will hold up
                well if care is given not to overheat or stamp too hard. The only foundry
                type still being made that is hard enough for foil stamping, apparently, is
                from Dale Guild Type Foundry which is also sold through NA Graphics. One can
                also find foundry type that was made thirty years ago or more still in
                unopened packages by foundries like ATF, Bauer and other european foundries
                that are acceptable to use--but these seem to be more rare and you have to
                hunt them down. I strongly suggest buying from NA Graphics!! You can
                probably google 'service type' and find some suppliers--I don't know the
                alloy for service type.

                --
                Amy Borezo
                Shelter Bookworks
                131 West Main Street #35
                Orange, MA 01364
                978.413.6557
                www.shelterbookworks.com
                www.shelterbookworks.blogspot.com


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Graham and Kathy
                MAZAK was made for foil blocking - sounds like an acronym, but I don t know. Graham Moss
                Message 7 of 25 , Dec 11, 2008
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                  MAZAK was made for foil blocking - sounds like an acronym, but I don't know.


                  Graham Moss




                  On 11/12/08 20:07, "amy borezo" <aborezo@...> wrote:

                  > I don't know the
                  > alloy for service type.
                  >
                  > --
                  > Amy Borezo
                • Graham and Kathy
                  Should have done this first I guess!
                  Message 8 of 25 , Dec 11, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Should have done this first I guess!

                    > http://www.rubberstampmaterials.com/index.asp?Category=58&PageAction=VIEWCATS


                    On 11/12/08 21:25, "Graham and Kathy" <kwhalen.incline@...> wrote:

                    > MAZAK was made for foil blocking - sounds like an acronym, but I don't know.
                    >
                    >
                    > Graham Moss
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > On 11/12/08 20:07, "amy borezo" <aborezo@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >> I don't know the
                    >> alloy for service type.
                    >>
                    >> --
                    >> Amy Borezo
                    >
                  • aborezo
                    It looks like service type was introduced by Ernest Schaefer to the bookbinding trade and is made from zinc. http://www.ernestschaeferinc.com/index.html They
                    Message 9 of 25 , Dec 11, 2008
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                      It looks like service type was introduced by Ernest Schaefer to the
                      bookbinding trade and is made from zinc.
                      http://www.ernestschaeferinc.com/index.html

                      They have a catalog of what is available on their website
                      http://www.ernestschaeferinc.com/catalog_c269713.html. I find that the
                      service type looks fairly dated. The foundry type from NA Graphics is
                      more classic. The selection of brass type from P&S Engraving is
                      heaven, but you must pay a high price to get there.

                      amy
                      www.shelterbookworks.com
                      www.shelterbookworks.blogspot.com




                      --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Graham and Kathy
                      <kwhalen.incline@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > MAZAK was made for foil blocking - sounds like an acronym, but I
                      don't know.
                      >
                      >
                      > Graham Moss
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > On 11/12/08 20:07, "amy borezo" <aborezo@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > I don't know the
                      > > alloy for service type.
                      > >
                      > > --
                      > > Amy Borezo
                      >
                    • Fritz Klinke
                      Service type is a new term to me, and I had not heard of the Schaefer line before. Service type may be a name these folks gave to zinc type and perhaps that is
                      Message 10 of 25 , Dec 11, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Service type is a new term to me, and I had not heard of the Schaefer line before. Service type may be a name these folks gave to zinc type and perhaps that is the same as Mazak type or Kingsley's zinc type that was cast exclusively by American Type Founders. Zinc will withstand the high temperatures needed for foil stamping. It is nasty stuff to cast and is hard on casting equipment and matrices. ATF was owned by Kingsley at its demise in 1993 and even into the late 1980s, ATF cast over a million dollars worth of zinc type a year for Kingsley. Separate mats were made for zinc service and the machines were strictly used for zinc only. Several of the surviving Barth machines from Kingsley are now owned by Greg Walters and the mats are held by Harold Bratter. All the ATF Kingsley material was held by the surviving Kingsley operation after the 1993 auction in Chicago, but was never put back into service. A fellow from Maine, Kevin Auer, contacted Kingsley and purchased all this and moved it to Maine, then ultimately sold it all to Bratter. One machine was almost converted to regular casting for 36 pt and was to have gone to the Dale Guild, but the work was not completed and Greg Walters has it now in Ohio. As far as I know, there is no genuine zinc type being cast by anyone, but the Schaefer product intrigues me.

                        I have a bunch of new Kingsley/ATF type that I'm starting to list on the NA Graphics web site. This type should not be mixed with regular metal type as it is not the same height or point size because of the shrinkage characteristics of zinc vs. metal.

                        Fritz

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: amy borezo
                        To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 1:07 PM
                        Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re:Hot metal type


                        Hello,

                        I have been buying metal type recently for foil stamping as well. Brass type
                        is the best for foil stamping, followed by service type, followed by foundry
                        type (And the prices follow the order of hardness!). Monotype is not usable
                        for foil stamping and distorts after one hit. The foundry type will hold up
                        well if care is given not to overheat or stamp too hard. The only foundry
                        type still being made that is hard enough for foil stamping, apparently, is
                        from Dale Guild Type Foundry which is also sold through NA Graphics. One can
                        also find foundry type that was made thirty years ago or more still in
                        unopened packages by foundries like ATF, Bauer and other european foundries
                        that are acceptable to use--but these seem to be more rare and you have to
                        hunt them down. I strongly suggest buying from NA Graphics!! You can
                        probably google 'service type' and find some suppliers--I don't know the
                        alloy for service type.

                        --
                        Amy Borezo
                        Shelter Bookworks
                        131 West Main Street #35
                        Orange, MA 01364
                        978.413.6557
                        www.shelterbookworks.com
                        www.shelterbookworks.blogspot.com

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Graham and Kathy
                        The Mazak type that I have was made by Stephenson Blake of Sheffield, last of the old type foundries, who closed down I guess about four years ago (time flies
                        Message 11 of 25 , Dec 12, 2008
                        • 0 Attachment
                          The Mazak type that I have was made by Stephenson Blake of Sheffield, last
                          of the old type foundries, who closed down I guess about four years ago
                          (time flies - it could be longer, but they were still casting to order in
                          1999).
                          One of the ways they stayed afloat for so long was by supplying type for the
                          hot foilers. I don't know what faces they supplied, and only have a fount of
                          24pt Modern No. 20, and that came to me by accident. I keep it in a case
                          mixed with some of their regular foundry type. It was Howard Bratter who
                          pointed out to me what it was, me not realizing, and told me that there was
                          differential shrinkage on cooling between Mazak and regular foundry type,
                          but it must be so minute as not to show in practical printing use, and I've
                          not noticed low letters when printing or letters loose in the lock-up when
                          lifting the chase. The only way I can tell the two castings apart is by the
                          weight of the letters, the Mazak being noticeably lighter.

                          I have done a bit of foiling for book titles, and personally I reckon
                          foundry type is too precious to use that way, as eventually the weave of the
                          cloth appeared in the face of the letters - instead I use 16g zinc blocks,
                          made from a typeset original print.


                          Graham Moss
                          Incline Press
                          36 Bow Street
                          Oldham OL1 1SJ England
                          http://www.inclinepress.com





                          On 12/12/08 03:18, "Fritz Klinke" <nagraph@...> wrote:

                          > Service type is a new term to me, and I had not heard of the Schaefer line
                          > before. Service type may be a name these folks gave to zinc type and perhaps
                          > that is the same as Mazak type or Kingsley's zinc type that was cast
                          > exclusively by American Type Founders. Zinc will withstand the high
                          > temperatures needed for foil stamping. It is nasty stuff to cast and is hard
                          > on casting equipment and matrices. ATF was owned by Kingsley at its demise in
                          > 1993 and even into the late 1980s, ATF cast over a million dollars worth of
                          > zinc type a year for Kingsley. Separate mats were made for zinc service and
                          > the machines were strictly used for zinc only. Several of the surviving Barth
                          > machines from Kingsley are now owned by Greg Walters and the mats are held by
                          > Harold Bratter. All the ATF Kingsley material was held by the surviving
                          > Kingsley operation after the 1993 auction in Chicago, but was never put back
                          > into service. A fellow from Maine, Kevin Auer, contacted Kingsley and
                          > purchased all this and moved it to Maine, then ultimately sold it all to
                          > Bratter. One machine was almost converted to regular casting for 36 pt and was
                          > to have gone to the Dale Guild, but the work was not completed and Greg
                          > Walters has it now in Ohio. As far as I know, there is no genuine zinc type
                          > being cast by anyone, but the Schaefer product intrigues me.
                          >
                          > I have a bunch of new Kingsley/ATF type that I'm starting to list on the NA
                          > Graphics web site. This type should not be mixed with regular metal type as it
                          > is not the same height or point size because of the shrinkage characteristics
                          > of zinc vs. metal.
                          >
                          > Fritz
                        • aborezo
                          I think that bookbinders should be another market for foundry type. It seems to me that letterpress alone cannot sustain the production of the Dale Guild
                          Message 12 of 25 , Dec 12, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I think that bookbinders should be another market for foundry type. It
                            seems to me that letterpress alone cannot sustain the production of
                            the Dale Guild Foundry type. If Dale Guild ceases production, foundry
                            type in the U.S. will certainly be too precious to use! :) In other
                            words, if we don't use it then it will no longer be made. I fully
                            recognize that bookbinders and letterpress printers together may not
                            be enough to sustain production, but I don't think it is being
                            marketed to bookbinders at this time, and perhaps it should be. Heck,
                            maybe Talas should carry it!

                            To purchase multiple fonts and sizes of brass type would be
                            outrageously expensive, yet that variety is what one needs in a
                            bindery. Foundry type offers the ability to get that variety
                            affordably. In addition, it's not always preferable to make metal
                            plates for projects. For example, I have about 70 labels I need to
                            stamp and each one is different. It's so much easier to set type for
                            this purpose. A ludlow would also be great, but I don't want to deal
                            with a pot of molten lead in my studio. ;)

                            I agree that some bookcloth will be too hard on foundry type. It would
                            be best to use on paper and leather at moderate heat, I would think.
                            Another drawback for using foundry type for hot foil is that it is
                            usually not cut as deeply as brass type and, I think, service type.
                            Another plus for foundry is the amount of letters you get in a
                            set--much more than with brass or service.

                            amy
                            www.shelterbookworks.com
                            www.shelterbookworks.blogspot.com



                            --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Graham and Kathy
                            <kwhalen.incline@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > The Mazak type that I have was made by Stephenson Blake of
                            Sheffield, last
                            > of the old type foundries, who closed down I guess about four years ago
                            > (time flies - it could be longer, but they were still casting to
                            order in
                            > 1999).
                            > One of the ways they stayed afloat for so long was by supplying type
                            for the
                            > hot foilers. I don't know what faces they supplied, and only have a
                            fount of
                            > 24pt Modern No. 20, and that came to me by accident. I keep it in a case
                            > mixed with some of their regular foundry type. It was Howard Bratter who
                            > pointed out to me what it was, me not realizing, and told me that
                            there was
                            > differential shrinkage on cooling between Mazak and regular foundry
                            type,
                            > but it must be so minute as not to show in practical printing use,
                            and I've
                            > not noticed low letters when printing or letters loose in the
                            lock-up when
                            > lifting the chase. The only way I can tell the two castings apart
                            is by the
                            > weight of the letters, the Mazak being noticeably lighter.
                            >
                            > I have done a bit of foiling for book titles, and personally I reckon
                            > foundry type is too precious to use that way, as eventually the
                            weave of the
                            > cloth appeared in the face of the letters - instead I use 16g zinc
                            blocks,
                            > made from a typeset original print.
                            >
                            >
                            > Graham Moss
                            > Incline Press
                            > 36 Bow Street
                            > Oldham OL1 1SJ England
                            > http://www.inclinepress.com
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Fritz Klinke
                            We have sold both Dale Guild type and from existing stocks of new ATF type to book binders, but I agree that it is an undeveloped type sales area. The hard
                            Message 13 of 25 , Dec 12, 2008
                            • 0 Attachment
                              We have sold both Dale Guild type and from existing stocks of new ATF type to book binders, but I agree that it is an undeveloped type sales area. The hard metal formula of ATF type does well in many book operations. And many binders now use mag plates, even for single volumes, and pass the cost along to the client.

                              For an interesting prcing schedule for monotype/Thompson cast type being sold to hot foil stamping people, take a look at the Howard Imprinting site. Some of these folks with Howard came from Kingsley and they aggressively market their machines, but steer clear of printers.

                              Fritz

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: aborezo
                              To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 3:00 PM
                              Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re:Hot metal type


                              I think that bookbinders should be another market for foundry type. It
                              seems to me that letterpress alone cannot sustain the production of
                              the Dale Guild Foundry type. If Dale Guild ceases production, foundry
                              type in the U.S. will certainly be too precious to use! :) In other
                              words, if we don't use it then it will no longer be made. I fully
                              recognize that bookbinders and letterpress printers together may not
                              be enough to sustain production, but I don't think it is being
                              marketed to bookbinders at this time, and perhaps it should be. Heck,
                              maybe Talas should carry it!

                              To purchase multiple fonts and sizes of brass type would be
                              outrageously expensive, yet that variety is what one needs in a
                              bindery. Foundry type offers the ability to get that variety
                              affordably. In addition, it's not always preferable to make metal
                              plates for projects. For example, I have about 70 labels I need to
                              stamp and each one is different. It's so much easier to set type for
                              this purpose. A ludlow would also be great, but I don't want to deal
                              with a pot of molten lead in my studio. ;)

                              I agree that some bookcloth will be too hard on foundry type. It would
                              be best to use on paper and leather at moderate heat, I would think.
                              Another drawback for using foundry type for hot foil is that it is
                              usually not cut as deeply as brass type and, I think, service type.
                              Another plus for foundry is the amount of letters you get in a
                              set--much more than with brass or service.

                              amy
                              www.shelterbookworks.com
                              www.shelterbookworks.blogspot.com

                              --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Graham and Kathy
                              <kwhalen.incline@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > The Mazak type that I have was made by Stephenson Blake of
                              Sheffield, last
                              > of the old type foundries, who closed down I guess about four years ago
                              > (time flies - it could be longer, but they were still casting to
                              order in
                              > 1999).
                              > One of the ways they stayed afloat for so long was by supplying type
                              for the
                              > hot foilers. I don't know what faces they supplied, and only have a
                              fount of
                              > 24pt Modern No. 20, and that came to me by accident. I keep it in a case
                              > mixed with some of their regular foundry type. It was Howard Bratter who
                              > pointed out to me what it was, me not realizing, and told me that
                              there was
                              > differential shrinkage on cooling between Mazak and regular foundry
                              type,
                              > but it must be so minute as not to show in practical printing use,
                              and I've
                              > not noticed low letters when printing or letters loose in the
                              lock-up when
                              > lifting the chase. The only way I can tell the two castings apart
                              is by the
                              > weight of the letters, the Mazak being noticeably lighter.
                              >
                              > I have done a bit of foiling for book titles, and personally I reckon
                              > foundry type is too precious to use that way, as eventually the
                              weave of the
                              > cloth appeared in the face of the letters - instead I use 16g zinc
                              blocks,
                              > made from a typeset original print.
                              >
                              >
                              > Graham Moss
                              > Incline Press
                              > 36 Bow Street
                              > Oldham OL1 1SJ England
                              > http://www.inclinepress.com
                              >
                              >
                              >





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