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Re: Hot metal type

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  • Gerald Lange
    Peter ... stamping. Bunting makes a special base for this and the plates that are designated for it are processed slightly differently. Just to say PP is there
    Message 1 of 25 , Dec 10, 2008
      Peter

      :—) Just a note, photopolymer plates are also used for hot foil
      stamping. Bunting makes a special base for this and the plates that
      are designated for it are processed slightly differently. Just to say
      PP is there as well, not exclusively metal!!!!

      Gerald


      --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@...> wrote:
      >
      > On 10 Dec 2008, at 6:11 PM, Richard Kegler wrote:
      >
      > > Ludlow is still used for foil stamping. If it starts to wear down,
      > > just have
      > > a backup or two cast.
      > >
      > > We will be offering this as a service through the Western NY Book Arts
      > > Collaborative for people who want Ludlow lines cast.
      > >
      > > Our library is about 100 fonts right now:
      > > http://www.wnybookarts.org/ludlow.php
      > >
      > > Richard Kegler
      > > -----------------------------
      >
      >
      > Richard--
      >
      > Bravo bravo ;-)
      >
      > I am so happy to see letterpress/book arts collectives popping up east
      > of the Rockies!
      >
      > The Dubuque Book Arts Center (under construction) salutes you!!
      >
      > We don't do hot metal, although we (sadly) just had to pass on a whole
      > shop full of ludlow stuff (near Minneapolis - we'll get the Heidelberg
      > and the Miehle V45. Just couldn't manage the whole shebang)
      >
      > Our good friend and fellow traveler Tim Fay down in Anamosa produces
      > his annual Wapsipinicon Almanac directly from Linotype metal (set and
      > cast in his shop). (On a 20x26 two-color Miller Cylinder, no less).
      > Highly recommended both for the type and the content, which is top-
      > drawer... so to speak. There's a brand new issue out this week!
      >
      > http://wapsi-almanac.com
      >
      > BTW, Tim's also a photopolymer user, just to stay on topic
      >
      > PF
      >
      > >
      > >
      >
      > Peter Fraterdeus
      > Exquisite Letterpress
      > http://slowprint.com
      >
      > New! SlowPrint Newsletter!
      > Signup: http://tinyurl.com/slowprint
      > Current: http://slowprint.com/slowprintnl
      >
    • leorawest@yahoo.com
      Whoa! And, huh? Tell us more! Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T ... From: Gerald Lange Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:43:30 To:
      Message 2 of 25 , Dec 10, 2008
        Whoa! And, huh? Tell us more!

        Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

        -----Original Message-----
        From: "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@...>

        Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:43:30
        To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Hot metal type


        Peter

        :�) Just a note, photopolymer plates are also used for hot foil
        stamping. Bunting makes a special base for this and the plates that
        are designated for it are processed slightly differently. Just to say
        PP is there as well, not exclusively metal!!!!

        Gerald


        --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@...> wrote:
        >
        > On 10 Dec 2008, at 6:11 PM, Richard Kegler wrote:
        >
        > > Ludlow is still used for foil stamping. If it starts to wear down,
        > > just have
        > > a backup or two cast.
        > >
        > > We will be offering this as a service through the Western NY Book Arts
        > > Collaborative for people who want Ludlow lines cast.
        > >
        > > Our library is about 100 fonts right now:
        > > http://www.wnybookarts.org/ludlow.php
        > >
        > > Richard Kegler
        > > -----------------------------
        >
        >
        > Richard--
        >
        > Bravo bravo ;-)
        >
        > I am so happy to see letterpress/book arts collectives popping up east
        > of the Rockies!
        >
        > The Dubuque Book Arts Center (under construction) salutes you!!
        >
        > We don't do hot metal, although we (sadly) just had to pass on a whole
        > shop full of ludlow stuff (near Minneapolis - we'll get the Heidelberg
        > and the Miehle V45. Just couldn't manage the whole shebang)
        >
        > Our good friend and fellow traveler Tim Fay down in Anamosa produces
        > his annual Wapsipinicon Almanac directly from Linotype metal (set and
        > cast in his shop). (On a 20x26 two-color Miller Cylinder, no less).
        > Highly recommended both for the type and the content, which is top-
        > drawer... so to speak. There's a brand new issue out this week!
        >
        > http://wapsi-almanac.com
        >
        > BTW, Tim's also a photopolymer user, just to stay on topic
        >
        > PF
        >
        > >
        > >
        >
        > Peter Fraterdeus
        > Exquisite Letterpress
        > http://slowprint.com
        >
        > New! SlowPrint Newsletter!
        > Signup: http://tinyurl.com/slowprint
        > Current: http://slowprint.com/slowprintnl
        >





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Gerald Lange
        Leorawest No one has ever said whoa and huh before but I thought this was common knowledge for some many years now. I have had an occasional inquiry about
        Message 3 of 25 , Dec 10, 2008
          Leorawest

          No one has ever said "whoa" and "huh" before but I thought this was
          common knowledge for some many years now. I have had an occasional
          inquiry about photopolymer plates for this purpose, and have gone
          through the motions, but I think it is likely more for commercial
          industrial practice, meaning, more expensive than existing metal
          practice, at least, at the outlay. Photoengravers who belatedly caught
          on to the concept of accepting digital files (as opposed to camera
          ready) sort of make the advantages of this mute (I suspect?). At
          least, as long as they are viable.


          Gerald


          --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, leorawest@... wrote:
          >
          > Whoa! And, huh? Tell us more!
          >
          > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@...>
          >
          > Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:43:30
          > To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
          > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Hot metal type
          >
          >
          > Peter
          >
          > :—) Just a note, photopolymer plates are also used for hot foil
          > stamping. Bunting makes a special base for this and the plates that
          > are designated for it are processed slightly differently. Just to say
          > PP is there as well, not exclusively metal!!!!
          >
          > Gerald
          >
          >
          > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@> wrote:
          > >
          > > On 10 Dec 2008, at 6:11 PM, Richard Kegler wrote:
          > >
          > > > Ludlow is still used for foil stamping. If it starts to wear down,
          > > > just have
          > > > a backup or two cast.
          > > >
          > > > We will be offering this as a service through the Western NY
          Book Arts
          > > > Collaborative for people who want Ludlow lines cast.
          > > >
          > > > Our library is about 100 fonts right now:
          > > > http://www.wnybookarts.org/ludlow.php
          > > >
          > > > Richard Kegler
          > > > -----------------------------
          > >
          > >
          > > Richard--
          > >
          > > Bravo bravo ;-)
          > >
          > > I am so happy to see letterpress/book arts collectives popping up
          east
          > > of the Rockies!
          > >
          > > The Dubuque Book Arts Center (under construction) salutes you!!
          > >
          > > We don't do hot metal, although we (sadly) just had to pass on a
          whole
          > > shop full of ludlow stuff (near Minneapolis - we'll get the
          Heidelberg
          > > and the Miehle V45. Just couldn't manage the whole shebang)
          > >
          > > Our good friend and fellow traveler Tim Fay down in Anamosa produces
          > > his annual Wapsipinicon Almanac directly from Linotype metal (set
          and
          > > cast in his shop). (On a 20x26 two-color Miller Cylinder, no less).
          > > Highly recommended both for the type and the content, which is top-
          > > drawer... so to speak. There's a brand new issue out this week!
          > >
          > > http://wapsi-almanac.com
          > >
          > > BTW, Tim's also a photopolymer user, just to stay on topic
          > >
          > > PF
          > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > Peter Fraterdeus
          > > Exquisite Letterpress
          > > http://slowprint.com
          > >
          > > New! SlowPrint Newsletter!
          > > Signup: http://tinyurl.com/slowprint
          > > Current: http://slowprint.com/slowprintnl
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Scott Rubel
          It may be common knowledge, but not to me. How does polymer stand up to heat? I m going to have to heat up one of my plates and see how it acts. I would assume
          Message 4 of 25 , Dec 11, 2008
            It may be common knowledge, but not to me. How does polymer stand up to
            heat? I'm going to have to heat up one of my plates and see how it acts.
            I would assume everything would get soft and sticky, but you know what
            they say about assuming. --Scott

            Gerald Lange wrote:
            > Leorawest
            >
            > No one has ever said "whoa" and "huh" before but I thought this was
            > common knowledge for some many years now. I have had an occasional
            > inquiry about photopolymer plates for this purpose, and have gone
            > through the motions, but I think it is likely more for commercial
            > industrial practice, meaning, more expensive than existing metal
            > practice, at least, at the outlay. Photoengravers who belatedly caught
            > on to the concept of accepting digital files (as opposed to camera
            > ready) sort of make the advantages of this mute (I suspect?). At
            > least, as long as they are viable.
            >
            >
            > Gerald
            >
            >
            > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, leorawest@... wrote:
            >
            >> Whoa! And, huh? Tell us more!
            >>
            >> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
            >>
            >> -----Original Message-----
            >> From: "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@...>
            >>
            >> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:43:30
            >> To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
            >> Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Hot metal type
            >>
            >>
            >> Peter
            >>
            >> :---) Just a note, photopolymer plates are also used for hot foil
            >> stamping. Bunting makes a special base for this and the plates that
            >> are designated for it are processed slightly differently. Just to say
            >> PP is there as well, not exclusively metal!!!!
            >>
            >> Gerald
            >>
            >>
            >> --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@> wrote:
            >>
            >>> On 10 Dec 2008, at 6:11 PM, Richard Kegler wrote:
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>> Ludlow is still used for foil stamping. If it starts to wear down,
            >>>> just have
            >>>> a backup or two cast.
            >>>>
            >>>> We will be offering this as a service through the Western NY
            >>>>
            > Book Arts
            >
            >>>> Collaborative for people who want Ludlow lines cast.
            >>>>
            >>>> Our library is about 100 fonts right now:
            >>>> http://www.wnybookarts.org/ludlow.php
            >>>>
            >>>> Richard Kegler
            >>>> -----------------------------
            >>>>
            >>> Richard--
            >>>
            >>> Bravo bravo ;-)
            >>>
            >>> I am so happy to see letterpress/book arts collectives popping up
            >>>
            > east
            >
            >>> of the Rockies!
            >>>
            >>> The Dubuque Book Arts Center (under construction) salutes you!!
            >>>
            >>> We don't do hot metal, although we (sadly) just had to pass on a
            >>>
            > whole
            >
            >>> shop full of ludlow stuff (near Minneapolis - we'll get the
            >>>
            > Heidelberg
            >
            >>> and the Miehle V45. Just couldn't manage the whole shebang)
            >>>
            >>> Our good friend and fellow traveler Tim Fay down in Anamosa produces
            >>> his annual Wapsipinicon Almanac directly from Linotype metal (set
            >>>
            > and
            >
            >>> cast in his shop). (On a 20x26 two-color Miller Cylinder, no less).
            >>> Highly recommended both for the type and the content, which is top-
            >>> drawer... so to speak. There's a brand new issue out this week!
            >>>
            >>> http://wapsi-almanac.com
            >>>
            >>> BTW, Tim's also a photopolymer user, just to stay on topic
            >>>
            >>> PF
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>>
            >>> Peter Fraterdeus
            >>> Exquisite Letterpress
            >>> http://slowprint.com
            >>>
            >>> New! SlowPrint Newsletter!
            >>> Signup: http://tinyurl.com/slowprint
            >>> Current: http://slowprint.com/slowprintnl
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >>>
            >>>
            >>>
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • rgraphix214
            Thanks to all of you for taking the time to give your input. Very refreshing! Several links were passed on to our customer. This was an educational process.
            Message 5 of 25 , Dec 11, 2008
              Thanks to all of you for taking the time to give your input. Very refreshing!

              Several links were passed on to our customer. This was an educational process.

              Dick

              --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "rgraphix214" <deystad@...> wrote:
              >
              > A customer of ours needs some hot metal type. I found a place in San Francisco (M&H) that
              > does it, but is there somewhere in the midwest still doing it.
              >
              > The customer wants to use it for foil stamping. Does doing hot foil stamping with lead type
              > make sense? We make hot foil stamping dies, but we treasure our fingers too much to try
              > cutting out dies of individual letters/numbers at 12 pt.
              >
            • Gerald Lange
              Scott Photopolymer plates are available for hot foil stamping at up to 350 degrees F on an aluminum base. Bunting Magnetics supplies bases for this purpose.
              Message 6 of 25 , Dec 11, 2008
                Scott

                Photopolymer plates are available for hot foil stamping at up to 350
                degrees F on an aluminum base. Bunting Magnetics supplies bases for
                this purpose. Plates used in this type of application are mounted with
                3M film adhesive to .010 tin plate. Bunting not only makes aluminum
                bases, they also manufacture steel and zinc bases specifically for
                combination hot foil stamping and diecutting operations.

                I suspect standard plates configured for letterpress aren't quite
                going to maintain their rigidity at this temperature.

                Gerald
                http://BielerPress.blogspot.com

                --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Scott Rubel <scott@...> wrote:
                >
                > It may be common knowledge, but not to me. How does polymer stand up to
                > heat? I'm going to have to heat up one of my plates and see how it
                acts.
                > I would assume everything would get soft and sticky, but you know what
                > they say about assuming. --Scott
                >
                > Gerald Lange wrote:
                > > Leorawest
                > >
                > > No one has ever said "whoa" and "huh" before but I thought this was
                > > common knowledge for some many years now. I have had an occasional
                > > inquiry about photopolymer plates for this purpose, and have gone
                > > through the motions, but I think it is likely more for commercial
                > > industrial practice, meaning, more expensive than existing metal
                > > practice, at least, at the outlay. Photoengravers who belatedly caught
                > > on to the concept of accepting digital files (as opposed to camera
                > > ready) sort of make the advantages of this mute (I suspect?). At
                > > least, as long as they are viable.
                > >
                > >
                > > Gerald
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, leorawest@ wrote:
                > >
                > >> Whoa! And, huh? Tell us more!
                > >>
                > >> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
                > >>
                > >> -----Original Message-----
                > >> From: "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@>
                > >>
                > >> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:43:30
                > >> To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                > >> Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Hot metal type
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> Peter
                > >>
                > >> :---) Just a note, photopolymer plates are also used for hot foil
                > >> stamping. Bunting makes a special base for this and the plates that
                > >> are designated for it are processed slightly differently. Just to say
                > >> PP is there as well, not exclusively metal!!!!
                > >>
                > >> Gerald
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@>
                wrote:
                > >>
                > >>> On 10 Dec 2008, at 6:11 PM, Richard Kegler wrote:
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>> Ludlow is still used for foil stamping. If it starts to wear
                down,
                > >>>> just have
                > >>>> a backup or two cast.
                > >>>>
                > >>>> We will be offering this as a service through the Western NY
                > >>>>
                > > Book Arts
                > >
                > >>>> Collaborative for people who want Ludlow lines cast.
                > >>>>
                > >>>> Our library is about 100 fonts right now:
                > >>>> http://www.wnybookarts.org/ludlow.php
                > >>>>
                > >>>> Richard Kegler
                > >>>> -----------------------------
                > >>>>
                > >>> Richard--
                > >>>
                > >>> Bravo bravo ;-)
                > >>>
                > >>> I am so happy to see letterpress/book arts collectives popping up
                > >>>
                > > east
                > >
                > >>> of the Rockies!
                > >>>
                > >>> The Dubuque Book Arts Center (under construction) salutes you!!
                > >>>
                > >>> We don't do hot metal, although we (sadly) just had to pass on a
                > >>>
                > > whole
                > >
                > >>> shop full of ludlow stuff (near Minneapolis - we'll get the
                > >>>
                > > Heidelberg
                > >
                > >>> and the Miehle V45. Just couldn't manage the whole shebang)
                > >>>
                > >>> Our good friend and fellow traveler Tim Fay down in Anamosa
                produces
                > >>> his annual Wapsipinicon Almanac directly from Linotype metal (set
                > >>>
                > > and
                > >
                > >>> cast in his shop). (On a 20x26 two-color Miller Cylinder, no
                less).
                > >>> Highly recommended both for the type and the content, which is top-
                > >>> drawer... so to speak. There's a brand new issue out this week!
                > >>>
                > >>> http://wapsi-almanac.com
                > >>>
                > >>> BTW, Tim's also a photopolymer user, just to stay on topic
                > >>>
                > >>> PF
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>>
                > >>> Peter Fraterdeus
                > >>> Exquisite Letterpress
                > >>> http://slowprint.com
                > >>>
                > >>> New! SlowPrint Newsletter!
                > >>> Signup: http://tinyurl.com/slowprint
                > >>> Current: http://slowprint.com/slowprintnl
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >>>
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • amy borezo
                Hello, I have been buying metal type recently for foil stamping as well. Brass type is the best for foil stamping, followed by service type, followed by
                Message 7 of 25 , Dec 11, 2008
                  Hello,

                  I have been buying metal type recently for foil stamping as well. Brass type
                  is the best for foil stamping, followed by service type, followed by foundry
                  type (And the prices follow the order of hardness!). Monotype is not usable
                  for foil stamping and distorts after one hit. The foundry type will hold up
                  well if care is given not to overheat or stamp too hard. The only foundry
                  type still being made that is hard enough for foil stamping, apparently, is
                  from Dale Guild Type Foundry which is also sold through NA Graphics. One can
                  also find foundry type that was made thirty years ago or more still in
                  unopened packages by foundries like ATF, Bauer and other european foundries
                  that are acceptable to use--but these seem to be more rare and you have to
                  hunt them down. I strongly suggest buying from NA Graphics!! You can
                  probably google 'service type' and find some suppliers--I don't know the
                  alloy for service type.

                  --
                  Amy Borezo
                  Shelter Bookworks
                  131 West Main Street #35
                  Orange, MA 01364
                  978.413.6557
                  www.shelterbookworks.com
                  www.shelterbookworks.blogspot.com


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Graham and Kathy
                  MAZAK was made for foil blocking - sounds like an acronym, but I don t know. Graham Moss
                  Message 8 of 25 , Dec 11, 2008
                    MAZAK was made for foil blocking - sounds like an acronym, but I don't know.


                    Graham Moss




                    On 11/12/08 20:07, "amy borezo" <aborezo@...> wrote:

                    > I don't know the
                    > alloy for service type.
                    >
                    > --
                    > Amy Borezo
                  • Graham and Kathy
                    Should have done this first I guess!
                    Message 9 of 25 , Dec 11, 2008
                      Should have done this first I guess!

                      > http://www.rubberstampmaterials.com/index.asp?Category=58&PageAction=VIEWCATS


                      On 11/12/08 21:25, "Graham and Kathy" <kwhalen.incline@...> wrote:

                      > MAZAK was made for foil blocking - sounds like an acronym, but I don't know.
                      >
                      >
                      > Graham Moss
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > On 11/12/08 20:07, "amy borezo" <aborezo@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >> I don't know the
                      >> alloy for service type.
                      >>
                      >> --
                      >> Amy Borezo
                      >
                    • aborezo
                      It looks like service type was introduced by Ernest Schaefer to the bookbinding trade and is made from zinc. http://www.ernestschaeferinc.com/index.html They
                      Message 10 of 25 , Dec 11, 2008
                        It looks like service type was introduced by Ernest Schaefer to the
                        bookbinding trade and is made from zinc.
                        http://www.ernestschaeferinc.com/index.html

                        They have a catalog of what is available on their website
                        http://www.ernestschaeferinc.com/catalog_c269713.html. I find that the
                        service type looks fairly dated. The foundry type from NA Graphics is
                        more classic. The selection of brass type from P&S Engraving is
                        heaven, but you must pay a high price to get there.

                        amy
                        www.shelterbookworks.com
                        www.shelterbookworks.blogspot.com




                        --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Graham and Kathy
                        <kwhalen.incline@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > MAZAK was made for foil blocking - sounds like an acronym, but I
                        don't know.
                        >
                        >
                        > Graham Moss
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > On 11/12/08 20:07, "amy borezo" <aborezo@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > > I don't know the
                        > > alloy for service type.
                        > >
                        > > --
                        > > Amy Borezo
                        >
                      • Fritz Klinke
                        Service type is a new term to me, and I had not heard of the Schaefer line before. Service type may be a name these folks gave to zinc type and perhaps that is
                        Message 11 of 25 , Dec 11, 2008
                          Service type is a new term to me, and I had not heard of the Schaefer line before. Service type may be a name these folks gave to zinc type and perhaps that is the same as Mazak type or Kingsley's zinc type that was cast exclusively by American Type Founders. Zinc will withstand the high temperatures needed for foil stamping. It is nasty stuff to cast and is hard on casting equipment and matrices. ATF was owned by Kingsley at its demise in 1993 and even into the late 1980s, ATF cast over a million dollars worth of zinc type a year for Kingsley. Separate mats were made for zinc service and the machines were strictly used for zinc only. Several of the surviving Barth machines from Kingsley are now owned by Greg Walters and the mats are held by Harold Bratter. All the ATF Kingsley material was held by the surviving Kingsley operation after the 1993 auction in Chicago, but was never put back into service. A fellow from Maine, Kevin Auer, contacted Kingsley and purchased all this and moved it to Maine, then ultimately sold it all to Bratter. One machine was almost converted to regular casting for 36 pt and was to have gone to the Dale Guild, but the work was not completed and Greg Walters has it now in Ohio. As far as I know, there is no genuine zinc type being cast by anyone, but the Schaefer product intrigues me.

                          I have a bunch of new Kingsley/ATF type that I'm starting to list on the NA Graphics web site. This type should not be mixed with regular metal type as it is not the same height or point size because of the shrinkage characteristics of zinc vs. metal.

                          Fritz

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: amy borezo
                          To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 1:07 PM
                          Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re:Hot metal type


                          Hello,

                          I have been buying metal type recently for foil stamping as well. Brass type
                          is the best for foil stamping, followed by service type, followed by foundry
                          type (And the prices follow the order of hardness!). Monotype is not usable
                          for foil stamping and distorts after one hit. The foundry type will hold up
                          well if care is given not to overheat or stamp too hard. The only foundry
                          type still being made that is hard enough for foil stamping, apparently, is
                          from Dale Guild Type Foundry which is also sold through NA Graphics. One can
                          also find foundry type that was made thirty years ago or more still in
                          unopened packages by foundries like ATF, Bauer and other european foundries
                          that are acceptable to use--but these seem to be more rare and you have to
                          hunt them down. I strongly suggest buying from NA Graphics!! You can
                          probably google 'service type' and find some suppliers--I don't know the
                          alloy for service type.

                          --
                          Amy Borezo
                          Shelter Bookworks
                          131 West Main Street #35
                          Orange, MA 01364
                          978.413.6557
                          www.shelterbookworks.com
                          www.shelterbookworks.blogspot.com

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Graham and Kathy
                          The Mazak type that I have was made by Stephenson Blake of Sheffield, last of the old type foundries, who closed down I guess about four years ago (time flies
                          Message 12 of 25 , Dec 12, 2008
                            The Mazak type that I have was made by Stephenson Blake of Sheffield, last
                            of the old type foundries, who closed down I guess about four years ago
                            (time flies - it could be longer, but they were still casting to order in
                            1999).
                            One of the ways they stayed afloat for so long was by supplying type for the
                            hot foilers. I don't know what faces they supplied, and only have a fount of
                            24pt Modern No. 20, and that came to me by accident. I keep it in a case
                            mixed with some of their regular foundry type. It was Howard Bratter who
                            pointed out to me what it was, me not realizing, and told me that there was
                            differential shrinkage on cooling between Mazak and regular foundry type,
                            but it must be so minute as not to show in practical printing use, and I've
                            not noticed low letters when printing or letters loose in the lock-up when
                            lifting the chase. The only way I can tell the two castings apart is by the
                            weight of the letters, the Mazak being noticeably lighter.

                            I have done a bit of foiling for book titles, and personally I reckon
                            foundry type is too precious to use that way, as eventually the weave of the
                            cloth appeared in the face of the letters - instead I use 16g zinc blocks,
                            made from a typeset original print.


                            Graham Moss
                            Incline Press
                            36 Bow Street
                            Oldham OL1 1SJ England
                            http://www.inclinepress.com





                            On 12/12/08 03:18, "Fritz Klinke" <nagraph@...> wrote:

                            > Service type is a new term to me, and I had not heard of the Schaefer line
                            > before. Service type may be a name these folks gave to zinc type and perhaps
                            > that is the same as Mazak type or Kingsley's zinc type that was cast
                            > exclusively by American Type Founders. Zinc will withstand the high
                            > temperatures needed for foil stamping. It is nasty stuff to cast and is hard
                            > on casting equipment and matrices. ATF was owned by Kingsley at its demise in
                            > 1993 and even into the late 1980s, ATF cast over a million dollars worth of
                            > zinc type a year for Kingsley. Separate mats were made for zinc service and
                            > the machines were strictly used for zinc only. Several of the surviving Barth
                            > machines from Kingsley are now owned by Greg Walters and the mats are held by
                            > Harold Bratter. All the ATF Kingsley material was held by the surviving
                            > Kingsley operation after the 1993 auction in Chicago, but was never put back
                            > into service. A fellow from Maine, Kevin Auer, contacted Kingsley and
                            > purchased all this and moved it to Maine, then ultimately sold it all to
                            > Bratter. One machine was almost converted to regular casting for 36 pt and was
                            > to have gone to the Dale Guild, but the work was not completed and Greg
                            > Walters has it now in Ohio. As far as I know, there is no genuine zinc type
                            > being cast by anyone, but the Schaefer product intrigues me.
                            >
                            > I have a bunch of new Kingsley/ATF type that I'm starting to list on the NA
                            > Graphics web site. This type should not be mixed with regular metal type as it
                            > is not the same height or point size because of the shrinkage characteristics
                            > of zinc vs. metal.
                            >
                            > Fritz
                          • aborezo
                            I think that bookbinders should be another market for foundry type. It seems to me that letterpress alone cannot sustain the production of the Dale Guild
                            Message 13 of 25 , Dec 12, 2008
                              I think that bookbinders should be another market for foundry type. It
                              seems to me that letterpress alone cannot sustain the production of
                              the Dale Guild Foundry type. If Dale Guild ceases production, foundry
                              type in the U.S. will certainly be too precious to use! :) In other
                              words, if we don't use it then it will no longer be made. I fully
                              recognize that bookbinders and letterpress printers together may not
                              be enough to sustain production, but I don't think it is being
                              marketed to bookbinders at this time, and perhaps it should be. Heck,
                              maybe Talas should carry it!

                              To purchase multiple fonts and sizes of brass type would be
                              outrageously expensive, yet that variety is what one needs in a
                              bindery. Foundry type offers the ability to get that variety
                              affordably. In addition, it's not always preferable to make metal
                              plates for projects. For example, I have about 70 labels I need to
                              stamp and each one is different. It's so much easier to set type for
                              this purpose. A ludlow would also be great, but I don't want to deal
                              with a pot of molten lead in my studio. ;)

                              I agree that some bookcloth will be too hard on foundry type. It would
                              be best to use on paper and leather at moderate heat, I would think.
                              Another drawback for using foundry type for hot foil is that it is
                              usually not cut as deeply as brass type and, I think, service type.
                              Another plus for foundry is the amount of letters you get in a
                              set--much more than with brass or service.

                              amy
                              www.shelterbookworks.com
                              www.shelterbookworks.blogspot.com



                              --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Graham and Kathy
                              <kwhalen.incline@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > The Mazak type that I have was made by Stephenson Blake of
                              Sheffield, last
                              > of the old type foundries, who closed down I guess about four years ago
                              > (time flies - it could be longer, but they were still casting to
                              order in
                              > 1999).
                              > One of the ways they stayed afloat for so long was by supplying type
                              for the
                              > hot foilers. I don't know what faces they supplied, and only have a
                              fount of
                              > 24pt Modern No. 20, and that came to me by accident. I keep it in a case
                              > mixed with some of their regular foundry type. It was Howard Bratter who
                              > pointed out to me what it was, me not realizing, and told me that
                              there was
                              > differential shrinkage on cooling between Mazak and regular foundry
                              type,
                              > but it must be so minute as not to show in practical printing use,
                              and I've
                              > not noticed low letters when printing or letters loose in the
                              lock-up when
                              > lifting the chase. The only way I can tell the two castings apart
                              is by the
                              > weight of the letters, the Mazak being noticeably lighter.
                              >
                              > I have done a bit of foiling for book titles, and personally I reckon
                              > foundry type is too precious to use that way, as eventually the
                              weave of the
                              > cloth appeared in the face of the letters - instead I use 16g zinc
                              blocks,
                              > made from a typeset original print.
                              >
                              >
                              > Graham Moss
                              > Incline Press
                              > 36 Bow Street
                              > Oldham OL1 1SJ England
                              > http://www.inclinepress.com
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • Fritz Klinke
                              We have sold both Dale Guild type and from existing stocks of new ATF type to book binders, but I agree that it is an undeveloped type sales area. The hard
                              Message 14 of 25 , Dec 12, 2008
                                We have sold both Dale Guild type and from existing stocks of new ATF type to book binders, but I agree that it is an undeveloped type sales area. The hard metal formula of ATF type does well in many book operations. And many binders now use mag plates, even for single volumes, and pass the cost along to the client.

                                For an interesting prcing schedule for monotype/Thompson cast type being sold to hot foil stamping people, take a look at the Howard Imprinting site. Some of these folks with Howard came from Kingsley and they aggressively market their machines, but steer clear of printers.

                                Fritz

                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: aborezo
                                To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 3:00 PM
                                Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re:Hot metal type


                                I think that bookbinders should be another market for foundry type. It
                                seems to me that letterpress alone cannot sustain the production of
                                the Dale Guild Foundry type. If Dale Guild ceases production, foundry
                                type in the U.S. will certainly be too precious to use! :) In other
                                words, if we don't use it then it will no longer be made. I fully
                                recognize that bookbinders and letterpress printers together may not
                                be enough to sustain production, but I don't think it is being
                                marketed to bookbinders at this time, and perhaps it should be. Heck,
                                maybe Talas should carry it!

                                To purchase multiple fonts and sizes of brass type would be
                                outrageously expensive, yet that variety is what one needs in a
                                bindery. Foundry type offers the ability to get that variety
                                affordably. In addition, it's not always preferable to make metal
                                plates for projects. For example, I have about 70 labels I need to
                                stamp and each one is different. It's so much easier to set type for
                                this purpose. A ludlow would also be great, but I don't want to deal
                                with a pot of molten lead in my studio. ;)

                                I agree that some bookcloth will be too hard on foundry type. It would
                                be best to use on paper and leather at moderate heat, I would think.
                                Another drawback for using foundry type for hot foil is that it is
                                usually not cut as deeply as brass type and, I think, service type.
                                Another plus for foundry is the amount of letters you get in a
                                set--much more than with brass or service.

                                amy
                                www.shelterbookworks.com
                                www.shelterbookworks.blogspot.com

                                --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Graham and Kathy
                                <kwhalen.incline@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > The Mazak type that I have was made by Stephenson Blake of
                                Sheffield, last
                                > of the old type foundries, who closed down I guess about four years ago
                                > (time flies - it could be longer, but they were still casting to
                                order in
                                > 1999).
                                > One of the ways they stayed afloat for so long was by supplying type
                                for the
                                > hot foilers. I don't know what faces they supplied, and only have a
                                fount of
                                > 24pt Modern No. 20, and that came to me by accident. I keep it in a case
                                > mixed with some of their regular foundry type. It was Howard Bratter who
                                > pointed out to me what it was, me not realizing, and told me that
                                there was
                                > differential shrinkage on cooling between Mazak and regular foundry
                                type,
                                > but it must be so minute as not to show in practical printing use,
                                and I've
                                > not noticed low letters when printing or letters loose in the
                                lock-up when
                                > lifting the chase. The only way I can tell the two castings apart
                                is by the
                                > weight of the letters, the Mazak being noticeably lighter.
                                >
                                > I have done a bit of foiling for book titles, and personally I reckon
                                > foundry type is too precious to use that way, as eventually the
                                weave of the
                                > cloth appeared in the face of the letters - instead I use 16g zinc
                                blocks,
                                > made from a typeset original print.
                                >
                                >
                                > Graham Moss
                                > Incline Press
                                > 36 Bow Street
                                > Oldham OL1 1SJ England
                                > http://www.inclinepress.com
                                >
                                >
                                >





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