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Re: [PPLetterpress] Hot metal type

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  • leorawest@yahoo.com
    We do both Letterpress and hot foil stamping. We have a large collection of type and set aside 2 cabinets for hot type because the type is heavily worn by hot
    Message 1 of 25 , Dec 10, 2008
      We do both Letterpress and hot foil stamping. We have a large collection of type and set aside 2 cabinets for hot type because the type is heavily worn by hot stamping and eventually ruined. We keep our Letterpress type separate. For custom plates used in hot stamping, we pay the extra few dollars for copper dies rather than magnesium and we bond temporarily to an aluminium base with heat tape.


      Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

      -----Original Message-----
      From: "rgraphix214" <deystad@...>

      Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 15:54:33
      To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: [PPLetterpress] Hot metal type


      A customer of ours needs some hot metal type. I found a place in San Francisco (M&H) that
      does it, but is there somewhere in the midwest still doing it.

      The customer wants to use it for foil stamping. Does doing hot foil stamping with lead type
      make sense? We make hot foil stamping dies, but we treasure our fingers too much to try
      cutting out dies of individual letters/numbers at 12 pt.




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Paul Aken
      Many foil stampers and rubber stamp makers used to use Ludlow. It would depend on the amount of impressions. You can have 3 or 4 lines of the same thing
      Message 2 of 25 , Dec 10, 2008
        Many foil stampers and rubber stamp makers used to use Ludlow. It
        would depend on the amount of impressions. You can have 3 or 4 lines
        of the same thing cast.


        On Dec 10, 2008, at 9:54 AM, rgraphix214 wrote:

        > A customer of ours needs some hot metal type. I found a place in
        > San Francisco (M&H) that
        > does it, but is there somewhere in the midwest still doing it.
        >
        > The customer wants to use it for foil stamping. Does doing hot foil
        > stamping with lead type
        > make sense? We make hot foil stamping dies, but we treasure our
        > fingers too much to try
        > cutting out dies of individual letters/numbers at 12 pt.
        >
        >
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Dave Allen
        Have a look at http://www.fiveroses.org/stampingtype.htm Davis Rose has given a very good description of what will work for hot stamping. Dave Allen ... --
        Message 3 of 25 , Dec 10, 2008
          Have a look at http://www.fiveroses.org/stampingtype.htm
          Davis Rose has given a very good description of what will work for hot
          stamping.
          Dave Allen

          rgraphix214 wrote:
          > A customer of ours needs some hot metal type. I found a place in San Francisco (M&H) that
          > does it, but is there somewhere in the midwest still doing it.
          >
          > The customer wants to use it for foil stamping. Does doing hot foil stamping with lead type
          > make sense? We make hot foil stamping dies, but we treasure our fingers too much to try
          > cutting out dies of individual letters/numbers at 12 pt.
          >


          --
          Beddall Bookbinding Conservation & Restoration
          840 Snowdrop Ave. Victoria BC V8Z 2N4
          (250)888-9380 http://www.Bookbinder.ca
        • Jan Kellett
          You can use lead type for hot foil stamping, but you will ruin it for subsequent use in letterpress and it will not last very many stampings. The hardened
          Message 4 of 25 , Dec 10, 2008
            You can use lead type for hot foil stamping, but you will ruin it for
            subsequent use in letterpress and it will not last very many
            stampings. The hardened foundry type lasts a little longer. Also you
            have to be very careful you don't have a melt-down. Brass type is
            pretty expensive, but a good investment if you are blocking book
            covers etc. and need to make just a single or few of one particular
            title. For repeated stampings of the same thing (image, logo, title or
            whatever) a metal die is best, either magnesium or copper. You can get
            a special double-sided adhesive tape to stick the die to a metal block
            to make it type high, for use in one of the old-fashioned blocking
            presses.
            Jan Kellett
          • nashopolis
            ... Howdy new to the group, all of the above info sounds right to me. Foil stamping will kill your lead type over time. That said Sky Shipley, who casts type,
            Message 5 of 25 , Dec 10, 2008
              --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "rgraphix214" <deystad@...> wrote:
              >
              > A customer of ours needs some hot metal type. I found a place in San Francisco (M&H) that
              > does it, but is there somewhere in the midwest still doing it.
              >
              > The customer wants to use it for foil stamping. Does doing hot foil stamping with lead type
              > make sense? We make hot foil stamping dies, but we treasure our fingers too much to try
              > cutting out dies of individual letters/numbers at 12 pt.
              >


              Howdy new to the group, all of the above info sounds right to me.

              Foil stamping will kill your lead type over time.
              That said Sky Shipley, who casts type, is in southern Illinois and a nice guy
              www.skylinetype.com

              good luck
            • Richard Kegler
              Ludlow is still used for foil stamping. If it starts to wear down, just have a backup or two cast. We will be offering this as a service through the Western NY
              Message 6 of 25 , Dec 10, 2008
                Ludlow is still used for foil stamping. If it starts to wear down, just have
                a backup or two cast.

                We will be offering this as a service through the Western NY Book Arts
                Collaborative for people who want Ludlow lines cast.

                Our library is about 100 fonts right now:
                http://www.wnybookarts.org/ludlow.php





                Richard Kegler
                -----------------------------
                P22 type foundry, Inc.
                Not your typical type
                PO Box 770
                Buffalo, NY 14213
                http://www.p22.com
                Phone: 716-885-4490
                Fax: 716-885-4482
                -----------------------------
                Western NY Book Arts Collaborative
                http://www.wnybookarts.org


                On 12/10/08 1:11 PM, "Paul Aken" <platenpress@...> wrote:

                > Many foil stampers and rubber stamp makers used to use Ludlow. It
                > would depend on the amount of impressions. You can have 3 or 4 lines
                > of the same thing cast.
                >
                >
                > On Dec 10, 2008, at 9:54 AM, rgraphix214 wrote:
                >
                >> A customer of ours needs some hot metal type. I found a place in
                >> San Francisco (M&H) that
                >> does it, but is there somewhere in the midwest still doing it.
                >>
                >> The customer wants to use it for foil stamping. Does doing hot foil
                >> stamping with lead type
                >> make sense? We make hot foil stamping dies, but we treasure our
                >> fingers too much to try
                >> cutting out dies of individual letters/numbers at 12 pt.
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
              • Peter Fraterdeus
                ... Richard-- Bravo bravo ;-) I am so happy to see letterpress/book arts collectives popping up east of the Rockies! The Dubuque Book Arts Center (under
                Message 7 of 25 , Dec 10, 2008
                  On 10 Dec 2008, at 6:11 PM, Richard Kegler wrote:

                  > Ludlow is still used for foil stamping. If it starts to wear down,
                  > just have
                  > a backup or two cast.
                  >
                  > We will be offering this as a service through the Western NY Book Arts
                  > Collaborative for people who want Ludlow lines cast.
                  >
                  > Our library is about 100 fonts right now:
                  > http://www.wnybookarts.org/ludlow.php
                  >
                  > Richard Kegler
                  > -----------------------------


                  Richard--

                  Bravo bravo ;-)

                  I am so happy to see letterpress/book arts collectives popping up east
                  of the Rockies!

                  The Dubuque Book Arts Center (under construction) salutes you!!

                  We don't do hot metal, although we (sadly) just had to pass on a whole
                  shop full of ludlow stuff (near Minneapolis - we'll get the Heidelberg
                  and the Miehle V45. Just couldn't manage the whole shebang)

                  Our good friend and fellow traveler Tim Fay down in Anamosa produces
                  his annual Wapsipinicon Almanac directly from Linotype metal (set and
                  cast in his shop). (On a 20x26 two-color Miller Cylinder, no less).
                  Highly recommended both for the type and the content, which is top-
                  drawer... so to speak. There's a brand new issue out this week!

                  http://wapsi-almanac.com

                  BTW, Tim's also a photopolymer user, just to stay on topic

                  PF

                  >
                  >

                  Peter Fraterdeus
                  Exquisite Letterpress
                  http://slowprint.com

                  New! SlowPrint Newsletter!
                  Signup: http://tinyurl.com/slowprint
                  Current: http://slowprint.com/slowprintnl
                • Gerald Lange
                  Peter ... stamping. Bunting makes a special base for this and the plates that are designated for it are processed slightly differently. Just to say PP is there
                  Message 8 of 25 , Dec 10, 2008
                    Peter

                    :—) Just a note, photopolymer plates are also used for hot foil
                    stamping. Bunting makes a special base for this and the plates that
                    are designated for it are processed slightly differently. Just to say
                    PP is there as well, not exclusively metal!!!!

                    Gerald


                    --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > On 10 Dec 2008, at 6:11 PM, Richard Kegler wrote:
                    >
                    > > Ludlow is still used for foil stamping. If it starts to wear down,
                    > > just have
                    > > a backup or two cast.
                    > >
                    > > We will be offering this as a service through the Western NY Book Arts
                    > > Collaborative for people who want Ludlow lines cast.
                    > >
                    > > Our library is about 100 fonts right now:
                    > > http://www.wnybookarts.org/ludlow.php
                    > >
                    > > Richard Kegler
                    > > -----------------------------
                    >
                    >
                    > Richard--
                    >
                    > Bravo bravo ;-)
                    >
                    > I am so happy to see letterpress/book arts collectives popping up east
                    > of the Rockies!
                    >
                    > The Dubuque Book Arts Center (under construction) salutes you!!
                    >
                    > We don't do hot metal, although we (sadly) just had to pass on a whole
                    > shop full of ludlow stuff (near Minneapolis - we'll get the Heidelberg
                    > and the Miehle V45. Just couldn't manage the whole shebang)
                    >
                    > Our good friend and fellow traveler Tim Fay down in Anamosa produces
                    > his annual Wapsipinicon Almanac directly from Linotype metal (set and
                    > cast in his shop). (On a 20x26 two-color Miller Cylinder, no less).
                    > Highly recommended both for the type and the content, which is top-
                    > drawer... so to speak. There's a brand new issue out this week!
                    >
                    > http://wapsi-almanac.com
                    >
                    > BTW, Tim's also a photopolymer user, just to stay on topic
                    >
                    > PF
                    >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    > Peter Fraterdeus
                    > Exquisite Letterpress
                    > http://slowprint.com
                    >
                    > New! SlowPrint Newsletter!
                    > Signup: http://tinyurl.com/slowprint
                    > Current: http://slowprint.com/slowprintnl
                    >
                  • leorawest@yahoo.com
                    Whoa! And, huh? Tell us more! Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T ... From: Gerald Lange Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:43:30 To:
                    Message 9 of 25 , Dec 10, 2008
                      Whoa! And, huh? Tell us more!

                      Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@...>

                      Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:43:30
                      To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                      Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Hot metal type


                      Peter

                      :�) Just a note, photopolymer plates are also used for hot foil
                      stamping. Bunting makes a special base for this and the plates that
                      are designated for it are processed slightly differently. Just to say
                      PP is there as well, not exclusively metal!!!!

                      Gerald


                      --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > On 10 Dec 2008, at 6:11 PM, Richard Kegler wrote:
                      >
                      > > Ludlow is still used for foil stamping. If it starts to wear down,
                      > > just have
                      > > a backup or two cast.
                      > >
                      > > We will be offering this as a service through the Western NY Book Arts
                      > > Collaborative for people who want Ludlow lines cast.
                      > >
                      > > Our library is about 100 fonts right now:
                      > > http://www.wnybookarts.org/ludlow.php
                      > >
                      > > Richard Kegler
                      > > -----------------------------
                      >
                      >
                      > Richard--
                      >
                      > Bravo bravo ;-)
                      >
                      > I am so happy to see letterpress/book arts collectives popping up east
                      > of the Rockies!
                      >
                      > The Dubuque Book Arts Center (under construction) salutes you!!
                      >
                      > We don't do hot metal, although we (sadly) just had to pass on a whole
                      > shop full of ludlow stuff (near Minneapolis - we'll get the Heidelberg
                      > and the Miehle V45. Just couldn't manage the whole shebang)
                      >
                      > Our good friend and fellow traveler Tim Fay down in Anamosa produces
                      > his annual Wapsipinicon Almanac directly from Linotype metal (set and
                      > cast in his shop). (On a 20x26 two-color Miller Cylinder, no less).
                      > Highly recommended both for the type and the content, which is top-
                      > drawer... so to speak. There's a brand new issue out this week!
                      >
                      > http://wapsi-almanac.com
                      >
                      > BTW, Tim's also a photopolymer user, just to stay on topic
                      >
                      > PF
                      >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      > Peter Fraterdeus
                      > Exquisite Letterpress
                      > http://slowprint.com
                      >
                      > New! SlowPrint Newsletter!
                      > Signup: http://tinyurl.com/slowprint
                      > Current: http://slowprint.com/slowprintnl
                      >





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Gerald Lange
                      Leorawest No one has ever said whoa and huh before but I thought this was common knowledge for some many years now. I have had an occasional inquiry about
                      Message 10 of 25 , Dec 10, 2008
                        Leorawest

                        No one has ever said "whoa" and "huh" before but I thought this was
                        common knowledge for some many years now. I have had an occasional
                        inquiry about photopolymer plates for this purpose, and have gone
                        through the motions, but I think it is likely more for commercial
                        industrial practice, meaning, more expensive than existing metal
                        practice, at least, at the outlay. Photoengravers who belatedly caught
                        on to the concept of accepting digital files (as opposed to camera
                        ready) sort of make the advantages of this mute (I suspect?). At
                        least, as long as they are viable.


                        Gerald


                        --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, leorawest@... wrote:
                        >
                        > Whoa! And, huh? Tell us more!
                        >
                        > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@...>
                        >
                        > Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:43:30
                        > To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                        > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Hot metal type
                        >
                        >
                        > Peter
                        >
                        > :—) Just a note, photopolymer plates are also used for hot foil
                        > stamping. Bunting makes a special base for this and the plates that
                        > are designated for it are processed slightly differently. Just to say
                        > PP is there as well, not exclusively metal!!!!
                        >
                        > Gerald
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > On 10 Dec 2008, at 6:11 PM, Richard Kegler wrote:
                        > >
                        > > > Ludlow is still used for foil stamping. If it starts to wear down,
                        > > > just have
                        > > > a backup or two cast.
                        > > >
                        > > > We will be offering this as a service through the Western NY
                        Book Arts
                        > > > Collaborative for people who want Ludlow lines cast.
                        > > >
                        > > > Our library is about 100 fonts right now:
                        > > > http://www.wnybookarts.org/ludlow.php
                        > > >
                        > > > Richard Kegler
                        > > > -----------------------------
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Richard--
                        > >
                        > > Bravo bravo ;-)
                        > >
                        > > I am so happy to see letterpress/book arts collectives popping up
                        east
                        > > of the Rockies!
                        > >
                        > > The Dubuque Book Arts Center (under construction) salutes you!!
                        > >
                        > > We don't do hot metal, although we (sadly) just had to pass on a
                        whole
                        > > shop full of ludlow stuff (near Minneapolis - we'll get the
                        Heidelberg
                        > > and the Miehle V45. Just couldn't manage the whole shebang)
                        > >
                        > > Our good friend and fellow traveler Tim Fay down in Anamosa produces
                        > > his annual Wapsipinicon Almanac directly from Linotype metal (set
                        and
                        > > cast in his shop). (On a 20x26 two-color Miller Cylinder, no less).
                        > > Highly recommended both for the type and the content, which is top-
                        > > drawer... so to speak. There's a brand new issue out this week!
                        > >
                        > > http://wapsi-almanac.com
                        > >
                        > > BTW, Tim's also a photopolymer user, just to stay on topic
                        > >
                        > > PF
                        > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > Peter Fraterdeus
                        > > Exquisite Letterpress
                        > > http://slowprint.com
                        > >
                        > > New! SlowPrint Newsletter!
                        > > Signup: http://tinyurl.com/slowprint
                        > > Current: http://slowprint.com/slowprintnl
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • Scott Rubel
                        It may be common knowledge, but not to me. How does polymer stand up to heat? I m going to have to heat up one of my plates and see how it acts. I would assume
                        Message 11 of 25 , Dec 11, 2008
                          It may be common knowledge, but not to me. How does polymer stand up to
                          heat? I'm going to have to heat up one of my plates and see how it acts.
                          I would assume everything would get soft and sticky, but you know what
                          they say about assuming. --Scott

                          Gerald Lange wrote:
                          > Leorawest
                          >
                          > No one has ever said "whoa" and "huh" before but I thought this was
                          > common knowledge for some many years now. I have had an occasional
                          > inquiry about photopolymer plates for this purpose, and have gone
                          > through the motions, but I think it is likely more for commercial
                          > industrial practice, meaning, more expensive than existing metal
                          > practice, at least, at the outlay. Photoengravers who belatedly caught
                          > on to the concept of accepting digital files (as opposed to camera
                          > ready) sort of make the advantages of this mute (I suspect?). At
                          > least, as long as they are viable.
                          >
                          >
                          > Gerald
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, leorawest@... wrote:
                          >
                          >> Whoa! And, huh? Tell us more!
                          >>
                          >> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
                          >>
                          >> -----Original Message-----
                          >> From: "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@...>
                          >>
                          >> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:43:30
                          >> To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                          >> Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Hot metal type
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> Peter
                          >>
                          >> :---) Just a note, photopolymer plates are also used for hot foil
                          >> stamping. Bunting makes a special base for this and the plates that
                          >> are designated for it are processed slightly differently. Just to say
                          >> PP is there as well, not exclusively metal!!!!
                          >>
                          >> Gerald
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@> wrote:
                          >>
                          >>> On 10 Dec 2008, at 6:11 PM, Richard Kegler wrote:
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>> Ludlow is still used for foil stamping. If it starts to wear down,
                          >>>> just have
                          >>>> a backup or two cast.
                          >>>>
                          >>>> We will be offering this as a service through the Western NY
                          >>>>
                          > Book Arts
                          >
                          >>>> Collaborative for people who want Ludlow lines cast.
                          >>>>
                          >>>> Our library is about 100 fonts right now:
                          >>>> http://www.wnybookarts.org/ludlow.php
                          >>>>
                          >>>> Richard Kegler
                          >>>> -----------------------------
                          >>>>
                          >>> Richard--
                          >>>
                          >>> Bravo bravo ;-)
                          >>>
                          >>> I am so happy to see letterpress/book arts collectives popping up
                          >>>
                          > east
                          >
                          >>> of the Rockies!
                          >>>
                          >>> The Dubuque Book Arts Center (under construction) salutes you!!
                          >>>
                          >>> We don't do hot metal, although we (sadly) just had to pass on a
                          >>>
                          > whole
                          >
                          >>> shop full of ludlow stuff (near Minneapolis - we'll get the
                          >>>
                          > Heidelberg
                          >
                          >>> and the Miehle V45. Just couldn't manage the whole shebang)
                          >>>
                          >>> Our good friend and fellow traveler Tim Fay down in Anamosa produces
                          >>> his annual Wapsipinicon Almanac directly from Linotype metal (set
                          >>>
                          > and
                          >
                          >>> cast in his shop). (On a 20x26 two-color Miller Cylinder, no less).
                          >>> Highly recommended both for the type and the content, which is top-
                          >>> drawer... so to speak. There's a brand new issue out this week!
                          >>>
                          >>> http://wapsi-almanac.com
                          >>>
                          >>> BTW, Tim's also a photopolymer user, just to stay on topic
                          >>>
                          >>> PF
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>>
                          >>> Peter Fraterdeus
                          >>> Exquisite Letterpress
                          >>> http://slowprint.com
                          >>>
                          >>> New! SlowPrint Newsletter!
                          >>> Signup: http://tinyurl.com/slowprint
                          >>> Current: http://slowprint.com/slowprintnl
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >>>
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • rgraphix214
                          Thanks to all of you for taking the time to give your input. Very refreshing! Several links were passed on to our customer. This was an educational process.
                          Message 12 of 25 , Dec 11, 2008
                            Thanks to all of you for taking the time to give your input. Very refreshing!

                            Several links were passed on to our customer. This was an educational process.

                            Dick

                            --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "rgraphix214" <deystad@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > A customer of ours needs some hot metal type. I found a place in San Francisco (M&H) that
                            > does it, but is there somewhere in the midwest still doing it.
                            >
                            > The customer wants to use it for foil stamping. Does doing hot foil stamping with lead type
                            > make sense? We make hot foil stamping dies, but we treasure our fingers too much to try
                            > cutting out dies of individual letters/numbers at 12 pt.
                            >
                          • Gerald Lange
                            Scott Photopolymer plates are available for hot foil stamping at up to 350 degrees F on an aluminum base. Bunting Magnetics supplies bases for this purpose.
                            Message 13 of 25 , Dec 11, 2008
                              Scott

                              Photopolymer plates are available for hot foil stamping at up to 350
                              degrees F on an aluminum base. Bunting Magnetics supplies bases for
                              this purpose. Plates used in this type of application are mounted with
                              3M film adhesive to .010 tin plate. Bunting not only makes aluminum
                              bases, they also manufacture steel and zinc bases specifically for
                              combination hot foil stamping and diecutting operations.

                              I suspect standard plates configured for letterpress aren't quite
                              going to maintain their rigidity at this temperature.

                              Gerald
                              http://BielerPress.blogspot.com

                              --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Scott Rubel <scott@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > It may be common knowledge, but not to me. How does polymer stand up to
                              > heat? I'm going to have to heat up one of my plates and see how it
                              acts.
                              > I would assume everything would get soft and sticky, but you know what
                              > they say about assuming. --Scott
                              >
                              > Gerald Lange wrote:
                              > > Leorawest
                              > >
                              > > No one has ever said "whoa" and "huh" before but I thought this was
                              > > common knowledge for some many years now. I have had an occasional
                              > > inquiry about photopolymer plates for this purpose, and have gone
                              > > through the motions, but I think it is likely more for commercial
                              > > industrial practice, meaning, more expensive than existing metal
                              > > practice, at least, at the outlay. Photoengravers who belatedly caught
                              > > on to the concept of accepting digital files (as opposed to camera
                              > > ready) sort of make the advantages of this mute (I suspect?). At
                              > > least, as long as they are viable.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Gerald
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, leorawest@ wrote:
                              > >
                              > >> Whoa! And, huh? Tell us more!
                              > >>
                              > >> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
                              > >>
                              > >> -----Original Message-----
                              > >> From: "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@>
                              > >>
                              > >> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:43:30
                              > >> To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>
                              > >> Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Hot metal type
                              > >>
                              > >>
                              > >> Peter
                              > >>
                              > >> :---) Just a note, photopolymer plates are also used for hot foil
                              > >> stamping. Bunting makes a special base for this and the plates that
                              > >> are designated for it are processed slightly differently. Just to say
                              > >> PP is there as well, not exclusively metal!!!!
                              > >>
                              > >> Gerald
                              > >>
                              > >>
                              > >> --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@>
                              wrote:
                              > >>
                              > >>> On 10 Dec 2008, at 6:11 PM, Richard Kegler wrote:
                              > >>>
                              > >>>
                              > >>>> Ludlow is still used for foil stamping. If it starts to wear
                              down,
                              > >>>> just have
                              > >>>> a backup or two cast.
                              > >>>>
                              > >>>> We will be offering this as a service through the Western NY
                              > >>>>
                              > > Book Arts
                              > >
                              > >>>> Collaborative for people who want Ludlow lines cast.
                              > >>>>
                              > >>>> Our library is about 100 fonts right now:
                              > >>>> http://www.wnybookarts.org/ludlow.php
                              > >>>>
                              > >>>> Richard Kegler
                              > >>>> -----------------------------
                              > >>>>
                              > >>> Richard--
                              > >>>
                              > >>> Bravo bravo ;-)
                              > >>>
                              > >>> I am so happy to see letterpress/book arts collectives popping up
                              > >>>
                              > > east
                              > >
                              > >>> of the Rockies!
                              > >>>
                              > >>> The Dubuque Book Arts Center (under construction) salutes you!!
                              > >>>
                              > >>> We don't do hot metal, although we (sadly) just had to pass on a
                              > >>>
                              > > whole
                              > >
                              > >>> shop full of ludlow stuff (near Minneapolis - we'll get the
                              > >>>
                              > > Heidelberg
                              > >
                              > >>> and the Miehle V45. Just couldn't manage the whole shebang)
                              > >>>
                              > >>> Our good friend and fellow traveler Tim Fay down in Anamosa
                              produces
                              > >>> his annual Wapsipinicon Almanac directly from Linotype metal (set
                              > >>>
                              > > and
                              > >
                              > >>> cast in his shop). (On a 20x26 two-color Miller Cylinder, no
                              less).
                              > >>> Highly recommended both for the type and the content, which is top-
                              > >>> drawer... so to speak. There's a brand new issue out this week!
                              > >>>
                              > >>> http://wapsi-almanac.com
                              > >>>
                              > >>> BTW, Tim's also a photopolymer user, just to stay on topic
                              > >>>
                              > >>> PF
                              > >>>
                              > >>>
                              > >>>>
                              > >>> Peter Fraterdeus
                              > >>> Exquisite Letterpress
                              > >>> http://slowprint.com
                              > >>>
                              > >>> New! SlowPrint Newsletter!
                              > >>> Signup: http://tinyurl.com/slowprint
                              > >>> Current: http://slowprint.com/slowprintnl
                              > >>>
                              > >>>
                              > >>>
                              > >>>
                              > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >>>
                              > >>>
                              > >>>
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > ------------------------------------
                              > >
                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                            • amy borezo
                              Hello, I have been buying metal type recently for foil stamping as well. Brass type is the best for foil stamping, followed by service type, followed by
                              Message 14 of 25 , Dec 11, 2008
                                Hello,

                                I have been buying metal type recently for foil stamping as well. Brass type
                                is the best for foil stamping, followed by service type, followed by foundry
                                type (And the prices follow the order of hardness!). Monotype is not usable
                                for foil stamping and distorts after one hit. The foundry type will hold up
                                well if care is given not to overheat or stamp too hard. The only foundry
                                type still being made that is hard enough for foil stamping, apparently, is
                                from Dale Guild Type Foundry which is also sold through NA Graphics. One can
                                also find foundry type that was made thirty years ago or more still in
                                unopened packages by foundries like ATF, Bauer and other european foundries
                                that are acceptable to use--but these seem to be more rare and you have to
                                hunt them down. I strongly suggest buying from NA Graphics!! You can
                                probably google 'service type' and find some suppliers--I don't know the
                                alloy for service type.

                                --
                                Amy Borezo
                                Shelter Bookworks
                                131 West Main Street #35
                                Orange, MA 01364
                                978.413.6557
                                www.shelterbookworks.com
                                www.shelterbookworks.blogspot.com


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Graham and Kathy
                                MAZAK was made for foil blocking - sounds like an acronym, but I don t know. Graham Moss
                                Message 15 of 25 , Dec 11, 2008
                                  MAZAK was made for foil blocking - sounds like an acronym, but I don't know.


                                  Graham Moss




                                  On 11/12/08 20:07, "amy borezo" <aborezo@...> wrote:

                                  > I don't know the
                                  > alloy for service type.
                                  >
                                  > --
                                  > Amy Borezo
                                • Graham and Kathy
                                  Should have done this first I guess!
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Dec 11, 2008
                                    Should have done this first I guess!

                                    > http://www.rubberstampmaterials.com/index.asp?Category=58&PageAction=VIEWCATS


                                    On 11/12/08 21:25, "Graham and Kathy" <kwhalen.incline@...> wrote:

                                    > MAZAK was made for foil blocking - sounds like an acronym, but I don't know.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Graham Moss
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > On 11/12/08 20:07, "amy borezo" <aborezo@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >> I don't know the
                                    >> alloy for service type.
                                    >>
                                    >> --
                                    >> Amy Borezo
                                    >
                                  • aborezo
                                    It looks like service type was introduced by Ernest Schaefer to the bookbinding trade and is made from zinc. http://www.ernestschaeferinc.com/index.html They
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Dec 11, 2008
                                      It looks like service type was introduced by Ernest Schaefer to the
                                      bookbinding trade and is made from zinc.
                                      http://www.ernestschaeferinc.com/index.html

                                      They have a catalog of what is available on their website
                                      http://www.ernestschaeferinc.com/catalog_c269713.html. I find that the
                                      service type looks fairly dated. The foundry type from NA Graphics is
                                      more classic. The selection of brass type from P&S Engraving is
                                      heaven, but you must pay a high price to get there.

                                      amy
                                      www.shelterbookworks.com
                                      www.shelterbookworks.blogspot.com




                                      --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Graham and Kathy
                                      <kwhalen.incline@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > MAZAK was made for foil blocking - sounds like an acronym, but I
                                      don't know.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Graham Moss
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > On 11/12/08 20:07, "amy borezo" <aborezo@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > > I don't know the
                                      > > alloy for service type.
                                      > >
                                      > > --
                                      > > Amy Borezo
                                      >
                                    • Fritz Klinke
                                      Service type is a new term to me, and I had not heard of the Schaefer line before. Service type may be a name these folks gave to zinc type and perhaps that is
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Dec 11, 2008
                                        Service type is a new term to me, and I had not heard of the Schaefer line before. Service type may be a name these folks gave to zinc type and perhaps that is the same as Mazak type or Kingsley's zinc type that was cast exclusively by American Type Founders. Zinc will withstand the high temperatures needed for foil stamping. It is nasty stuff to cast and is hard on casting equipment and matrices. ATF was owned by Kingsley at its demise in 1993 and even into the late 1980s, ATF cast over a million dollars worth of zinc type a year for Kingsley. Separate mats were made for zinc service and the machines were strictly used for zinc only. Several of the surviving Barth machines from Kingsley are now owned by Greg Walters and the mats are held by Harold Bratter. All the ATF Kingsley material was held by the surviving Kingsley operation after the 1993 auction in Chicago, but was never put back into service. A fellow from Maine, Kevin Auer, contacted Kingsley and purchased all this and moved it to Maine, then ultimately sold it all to Bratter. One machine was almost converted to regular casting for 36 pt and was to have gone to the Dale Guild, but the work was not completed and Greg Walters has it now in Ohio. As far as I know, there is no genuine zinc type being cast by anyone, but the Schaefer product intrigues me.

                                        I have a bunch of new Kingsley/ATF type that I'm starting to list on the NA Graphics web site. This type should not be mixed with regular metal type as it is not the same height or point size because of the shrinkage characteristics of zinc vs. metal.

                                        Fritz

                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: amy borezo
                                        To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 1:07 PM
                                        Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re:Hot metal type


                                        Hello,

                                        I have been buying metal type recently for foil stamping as well. Brass type
                                        is the best for foil stamping, followed by service type, followed by foundry
                                        type (And the prices follow the order of hardness!). Monotype is not usable
                                        for foil stamping and distorts after one hit. The foundry type will hold up
                                        well if care is given not to overheat or stamp too hard. The only foundry
                                        type still being made that is hard enough for foil stamping, apparently, is
                                        from Dale Guild Type Foundry which is also sold through NA Graphics. One can
                                        also find foundry type that was made thirty years ago or more still in
                                        unopened packages by foundries like ATF, Bauer and other european foundries
                                        that are acceptable to use--but these seem to be more rare and you have to
                                        hunt them down. I strongly suggest buying from NA Graphics!! You can
                                        probably google 'service type' and find some suppliers--I don't know the
                                        alloy for service type.

                                        --
                                        Amy Borezo
                                        Shelter Bookworks
                                        131 West Main Street #35
                                        Orange, MA 01364
                                        978.413.6557
                                        www.shelterbookworks.com
                                        www.shelterbookworks.blogspot.com

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Graham and Kathy
                                        The Mazak type that I have was made by Stephenson Blake of Sheffield, last of the old type foundries, who closed down I guess about four years ago (time flies
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Dec 12, 2008
                                          The Mazak type that I have was made by Stephenson Blake of Sheffield, last
                                          of the old type foundries, who closed down I guess about four years ago
                                          (time flies - it could be longer, but they were still casting to order in
                                          1999).
                                          One of the ways they stayed afloat for so long was by supplying type for the
                                          hot foilers. I don't know what faces they supplied, and only have a fount of
                                          24pt Modern No. 20, and that came to me by accident. I keep it in a case
                                          mixed with some of their regular foundry type. It was Howard Bratter who
                                          pointed out to me what it was, me not realizing, and told me that there was
                                          differential shrinkage on cooling between Mazak and regular foundry type,
                                          but it must be so minute as not to show in practical printing use, and I've
                                          not noticed low letters when printing or letters loose in the lock-up when
                                          lifting the chase. The only way I can tell the two castings apart is by the
                                          weight of the letters, the Mazak being noticeably lighter.

                                          I have done a bit of foiling for book titles, and personally I reckon
                                          foundry type is too precious to use that way, as eventually the weave of the
                                          cloth appeared in the face of the letters - instead I use 16g zinc blocks,
                                          made from a typeset original print.


                                          Graham Moss
                                          Incline Press
                                          36 Bow Street
                                          Oldham OL1 1SJ England
                                          http://www.inclinepress.com





                                          On 12/12/08 03:18, "Fritz Klinke" <nagraph@...> wrote:

                                          > Service type is a new term to me, and I had not heard of the Schaefer line
                                          > before. Service type may be a name these folks gave to zinc type and perhaps
                                          > that is the same as Mazak type or Kingsley's zinc type that was cast
                                          > exclusively by American Type Founders. Zinc will withstand the high
                                          > temperatures needed for foil stamping. It is nasty stuff to cast and is hard
                                          > on casting equipment and matrices. ATF was owned by Kingsley at its demise in
                                          > 1993 and even into the late 1980s, ATF cast over a million dollars worth of
                                          > zinc type a year for Kingsley. Separate mats were made for zinc service and
                                          > the machines were strictly used for zinc only. Several of the surviving Barth
                                          > machines from Kingsley are now owned by Greg Walters and the mats are held by
                                          > Harold Bratter. All the ATF Kingsley material was held by the surviving
                                          > Kingsley operation after the 1993 auction in Chicago, but was never put back
                                          > into service. A fellow from Maine, Kevin Auer, contacted Kingsley and
                                          > purchased all this and moved it to Maine, then ultimately sold it all to
                                          > Bratter. One machine was almost converted to regular casting for 36 pt and was
                                          > to have gone to the Dale Guild, but the work was not completed and Greg
                                          > Walters has it now in Ohio. As far as I know, there is no genuine zinc type
                                          > being cast by anyone, but the Schaefer product intrigues me.
                                          >
                                          > I have a bunch of new Kingsley/ATF type that I'm starting to list on the NA
                                          > Graphics web site. This type should not be mixed with regular metal type as it
                                          > is not the same height or point size because of the shrinkage characteristics
                                          > of zinc vs. metal.
                                          >
                                          > Fritz
                                        • aborezo
                                          I think that bookbinders should be another market for foundry type. It seems to me that letterpress alone cannot sustain the production of the Dale Guild
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Dec 12, 2008
                                            I think that bookbinders should be another market for foundry type. It
                                            seems to me that letterpress alone cannot sustain the production of
                                            the Dale Guild Foundry type. If Dale Guild ceases production, foundry
                                            type in the U.S. will certainly be too precious to use! :) In other
                                            words, if we don't use it then it will no longer be made. I fully
                                            recognize that bookbinders and letterpress printers together may not
                                            be enough to sustain production, but I don't think it is being
                                            marketed to bookbinders at this time, and perhaps it should be. Heck,
                                            maybe Talas should carry it!

                                            To purchase multiple fonts and sizes of brass type would be
                                            outrageously expensive, yet that variety is what one needs in a
                                            bindery. Foundry type offers the ability to get that variety
                                            affordably. In addition, it's not always preferable to make metal
                                            plates for projects. For example, I have about 70 labels I need to
                                            stamp and each one is different. It's so much easier to set type for
                                            this purpose. A ludlow would also be great, but I don't want to deal
                                            with a pot of molten lead in my studio. ;)

                                            I agree that some bookcloth will be too hard on foundry type. It would
                                            be best to use on paper and leather at moderate heat, I would think.
                                            Another drawback for using foundry type for hot foil is that it is
                                            usually not cut as deeply as brass type and, I think, service type.
                                            Another plus for foundry is the amount of letters you get in a
                                            set--much more than with brass or service.

                                            amy
                                            www.shelterbookworks.com
                                            www.shelterbookworks.blogspot.com



                                            --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Graham and Kathy
                                            <kwhalen.incline@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > The Mazak type that I have was made by Stephenson Blake of
                                            Sheffield, last
                                            > of the old type foundries, who closed down I guess about four years ago
                                            > (time flies - it could be longer, but they were still casting to
                                            order in
                                            > 1999).
                                            > One of the ways they stayed afloat for so long was by supplying type
                                            for the
                                            > hot foilers. I don't know what faces they supplied, and only have a
                                            fount of
                                            > 24pt Modern No. 20, and that came to me by accident. I keep it in a case
                                            > mixed with some of their regular foundry type. It was Howard Bratter who
                                            > pointed out to me what it was, me not realizing, and told me that
                                            there was
                                            > differential shrinkage on cooling between Mazak and regular foundry
                                            type,
                                            > but it must be so minute as not to show in practical printing use,
                                            and I've
                                            > not noticed low letters when printing or letters loose in the
                                            lock-up when
                                            > lifting the chase. The only way I can tell the two castings apart
                                            is by the
                                            > weight of the letters, the Mazak being noticeably lighter.
                                            >
                                            > I have done a bit of foiling for book titles, and personally I reckon
                                            > foundry type is too precious to use that way, as eventually the
                                            weave of the
                                            > cloth appeared in the face of the letters - instead I use 16g zinc
                                            blocks,
                                            > made from a typeset original print.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Graham Moss
                                            > Incline Press
                                            > 36 Bow Street
                                            > Oldham OL1 1SJ England
                                            > http://www.inclinepress.com
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                          • Fritz Klinke
                                            We have sold both Dale Guild type and from existing stocks of new ATF type to book binders, but I agree that it is an undeveloped type sales area. The hard
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Dec 12, 2008
                                              We have sold both Dale Guild type and from existing stocks of new ATF type to book binders, but I agree that it is an undeveloped type sales area. The hard metal formula of ATF type does well in many book operations. And many binders now use mag plates, even for single volumes, and pass the cost along to the client.

                                              For an interesting prcing schedule for monotype/Thompson cast type being sold to hot foil stamping people, take a look at the Howard Imprinting site. Some of these folks with Howard came from Kingsley and they aggressively market their machines, but steer clear of printers.

                                              Fritz

                                              ----- Original Message -----
                                              From: aborezo
                                              To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 3:00 PM
                                              Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re:Hot metal type


                                              I think that bookbinders should be another market for foundry type. It
                                              seems to me that letterpress alone cannot sustain the production of
                                              the Dale Guild Foundry type. If Dale Guild ceases production, foundry
                                              type in the U.S. will certainly be too precious to use! :) In other
                                              words, if we don't use it then it will no longer be made. I fully
                                              recognize that bookbinders and letterpress printers together may not
                                              be enough to sustain production, but I don't think it is being
                                              marketed to bookbinders at this time, and perhaps it should be. Heck,
                                              maybe Talas should carry it!

                                              To purchase multiple fonts and sizes of brass type would be
                                              outrageously expensive, yet that variety is what one needs in a
                                              bindery. Foundry type offers the ability to get that variety
                                              affordably. In addition, it's not always preferable to make metal
                                              plates for projects. For example, I have about 70 labels I need to
                                              stamp and each one is different. It's so much easier to set type for
                                              this purpose. A ludlow would also be great, but I don't want to deal
                                              with a pot of molten lead in my studio. ;)

                                              I agree that some bookcloth will be too hard on foundry type. It would
                                              be best to use on paper and leather at moderate heat, I would think.
                                              Another drawback for using foundry type for hot foil is that it is
                                              usually not cut as deeply as brass type and, I think, service type.
                                              Another plus for foundry is the amount of letters you get in a
                                              set--much more than with brass or service.

                                              amy
                                              www.shelterbookworks.com
                                              www.shelterbookworks.blogspot.com

                                              --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Graham and Kathy
                                              <kwhalen.incline@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > The Mazak type that I have was made by Stephenson Blake of
                                              Sheffield, last
                                              > of the old type foundries, who closed down I guess about four years ago
                                              > (time flies - it could be longer, but they were still casting to
                                              order in
                                              > 1999).
                                              > One of the ways they stayed afloat for so long was by supplying type
                                              for the
                                              > hot foilers. I don't know what faces they supplied, and only have a
                                              fount of
                                              > 24pt Modern No. 20, and that came to me by accident. I keep it in a case
                                              > mixed with some of their regular foundry type. It was Howard Bratter who
                                              > pointed out to me what it was, me not realizing, and told me that
                                              there was
                                              > differential shrinkage on cooling between Mazak and regular foundry
                                              type,
                                              > but it must be so minute as not to show in practical printing use,
                                              and I've
                                              > not noticed low letters when printing or letters loose in the
                                              lock-up when
                                              > lifting the chase. The only way I can tell the two castings apart
                                              is by the
                                              > weight of the letters, the Mazak being noticeably lighter.
                                              >
                                              > I have done a bit of foiling for book titles, and personally I reckon
                                              > foundry type is too precious to use that way, as eventually the
                                              weave of the
                                              > cloth appeared in the face of the letters - instead I use 16g zinc
                                              blocks,
                                              > made from a typeset original print.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Graham Moss
                                              > Incline Press
                                              > 36 Bow Street
                                              > Oldham OL1 1SJ England
                                              > http://www.inclinepress.com
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >





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