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Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Recommended Reading

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  • Kathy Walkup
    Thanks for the cogent and to-the-point comment on Stop Stealing . . . . I had this book foisted on me as an emergency hire to teach Typography at a local JC,
    Message 1 of 8 , Nov 1, 2002
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      Thanks for the cogent and to-the-point comment on Stop Stealing . . . . I
      had this book foisted on me as an emergency hire to teach Typography at a
      local JC, and was horrified. I am amazed that it has lasted long enough to
      warrant a second edition. I do look forward to the other suggestions,
      though (except that I'm going to have to build an annex onto the house to
      contain my books on type).

      Kathy

      Kathleen A. Walkup
      Associate Professor
      Director, Book Arts Program
      Mills College
      5000 MacArthur Blvd.
      Oakland CA 94613

      510 430 2001/tel
      510 430 3314/fax
      kwalk@...

      On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Gerald Lange wrote:

      > --- In PPLetterpress@y..., "caldrich45" <carolealdrich@e...> wrote:
      > > I just purchased a book that I think will be of use to all in this
      > group. "The
      > > Complete Manual of Typography" by James Felici, Adobe Press, ISBN
      > > 0-321-12730-7 available at Amazon.com. It covers all aspects of setting
      > > elegant type on the computer and IMHO is an invaluable reference for
      > those
      > > of us setting type on our computers.
      >
      >
      >
      > Besides this book there have been a couple other recent type "primers"
      > of merit:
      >
      > _A Type Primer_ by John Kane
      > _Type & Typography_ by Phil Baines & Anderew Haslam
      >
      > as well as the second edition of _Stop Stealing Sheep_ (which still
      > sucks).
      >
      >
      > Gerald
      >
      >
      >
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    • Katie Harper
      I agree with Kathy: one can t have too many books about typography. While on the subject, we mustn t forget Geoffrey Dowding s excellent slim volume, Finer
      Message 2 of 8 , Nov 2, 2002
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        I agree with Kathy: one can't have too many books about typography. While
        on the subject, we mustn't forget Geoffrey Dowding's excellent slim volume,
        Finer Points in the Spacing and Arranging of Type, which I have found doubly
        useful, since it applies to those of us who set metal perhaps even more than
        it does for setting digital type for photopolymer. When setting in metal
        nowadays, I hunt to find 5/em spaces for word spacing rather than 3/m, which
        now to me looks like such a large space it could house a family of four...

        As a teacher, I'm always looking for good typography books for students in
        beginning and intermediate stages. I agree with others on Stop Steeling
        Sheep, as much as I might admire Eric Spiekerman as a type designer. So many
        otherwise interesting or useful books on design or typography are themselves
        way over-designed and therefore rendered just about useless.

        Gerald: The two books you recommended:

        >> _A Type Primer_ by John Kane
        >> _Type & Typography_ by Phil Baines & Anderew Haslam

        would you say those are good for beginners?

        Katie Harper


        > From: Kathy Walkup <kwalk@...>
        > Reply-To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 17:37:46 -0800 (PST)
        > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Recommended Reading
        >
        > Thanks for the cogent and to-the-point comment on Stop Stealing . . . . I
        > had this book foisted on me as an emergency hire to teach Typography at a
        > local JC, and was horrified. I am amazed that it has lasted long enough to
        > warrant a second edition. I do look forward to the other suggestions,
        > though (except that I'm going to have to build an annex onto the house to
        > contain my books on type).
        >
        > Kathy
        >
        > Kathleen A. Walkup
        > Associate Professor
        > Director, Book Arts Program
        > Mills College
        > 5000 MacArthur Blvd.
        > Oakland CA 94613
        >
        > 510 430 2001/tel
        > 510 430 3314/fax
        > kwalk@...
        >
        > On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Gerald Lange wrote:
        >
      • Peter Fraterdeus
        ... Ah, be careful with Mr. Dowding. His arrangements are actually very poor. In any case, do as he says, not as he does. Check out the page on optical
        Message 3 of 8 , Nov 2, 2002
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          At 9:32 AM -0500 2002-11-02, Katie Harper wrote:
          >I agree with Kathy: one can't have too many books about typography. While
          >on the subject, we mustn't forget Geoffrey Dowding's excellent slim volume,
          >Finer Points in the Spacing and Arranging of Type,

          Ah, be careful with Mr. Dowding.
          His arrangements are actually very poor.

          In any case, do as he says, not as he does.

          Check out the page on 'optical alignment of margins' and see if you can determine the problem. These are visual problems, and have to be solved visually, not mechanically.


          > which I have found doubly
          >useful, since it applies to those of us who set metal perhaps even more than
          >it does for setting digital type for photopolymer. When setting in metal
          >nowadays, I hunt to find 5/em spaces for word spacing rather than 3/m, which
          >now to me looks like such a large space it could house a family of four...
          >
          >As a teacher, I'm always looking for good typography books for students in
          >beginning and intermediate stages. I agree with others on Stop Steeling
          >Sheep, as much as I might admire Eric Spiekerman as a type designer.

          Would be interested in your critique of ESs book. Is it too German? Gerry?
          >...

          PF


          --
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          Peter Fraterdeus -:- peterf@... -:- Galena, Illinois
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        • ken botnick
          I have been teaching typography for a few years now and almost everyone I talk to who teaches says the same thing: ain t no text available that s worth much.
          Message 4 of 8 , Nov 3, 2002
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            I have been teaching typography for a few years now and almost
            everyone I talk to who teaches says the same thing: ain't no text
            available that's worth much.

            However, this year I ordered Willi Kunz's TYPOGRAPHY: MACRO + MICRO
            AESTHETICS, published by Niggli/Willi Kunz Books, ISBN 3-7212-0348-8.
            It is extremely well organized, has a nice balance of theory and
            practice, and it is really beautifully presented, a very nice
            package, which is important given its price. (I have 'tested' this
            book on a few non-type types and the response has usually been
            something along the lines of "oh, so that's what you do", which I
            have taken to be a good sign.)

            Not only a source of much good typographic information but a very
            nice lesson in book design.

            Ken
            --
            Ken Botnick
            Associate Professor, Visual Communications
            Washington University, Saint Louis
            314.935.8402 x 1 office
            314.968.5060 home
            http://www.em-dash.org


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Gerald Lange
            ... Hi Peter Not exactly sure what the German reference means. Spiekermann? If so, Spiekermann’s well received work for the Unified Berlin Transport
            Message 5 of 8 , Nov 3, 2002
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              Peter Fraterdeus wrote:

              >Would be interested in your critique of ESs book. Is it too German? Gerry?
              >
              Hi Peter

              Not exactly sure what the German reference means. Spiekermann?

              If so, Spiekermann’s well received work for the Unified Berlin Transport
              Authority seems to be quite absent from _Stop Stealing Sheep_. I
              reviewed the first edition in an old _AbraCadaBrA_ and if I were to
              review the second I doubt I would change much.

              Essentially, the book panders, a lot. It came out about the same time as
              Bringhurst's initially, but where _Elements of Typographic Style_ sought
              the high road, _SSS_ definitely went the other way. I'm not sure how
              much of this is Adobe's ( the publlisher) fault. I suspect there is
              something going on there. Adobe came out with its desperate Wild Type
              collection about the time _SSS_ was in manuscript form.

              _SSS_ is a 90s reworking of Spiekermann’s earlier book, _Rhyme & Reason:
              a typographic novel_ (H. Berthold AG, 1987), which had a bit more
              substance and was a bit more accessible, though in retrospect was
              indicative of the cuteness and cleverness and entertainment that would
              follow. But in terms of information design, _SSS_ is completely lacking.
              It is quite difficult to know where you are or to find out what you
              need. (The useful information that is provided, can easily be found in
              other sources.) Since the book seems to be aimed at the "newly
              initiated" to fontography it seems a bit odd that it doesn't provide
              useful directional aids for the reader.

              The second edition seems to have been revised a tad to include a
              contemporary awareness of the impact of the internet, to tone down the
              "effort" to be 90s hip (not very successful), and to include more
              samples of current fontography, less grunge, and more of what we would
              consider today, classic fonts, especially, Adobe fonts.

              But even though the authors' apologize for screwing up Goudy's dictum,
              he meant "blackletter" not "lowercase," they still miss the significance
              of why he said it.

              Gerald
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