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Re: Recommended Reading

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  • Gerald Lange
    ... group. The ... those ... Besides this book there have been a couple other recent type primers of merit: _A Type Primer_ by John Kane _Type & Typography_
    Message 1 of 8 , Nov 1, 2002
      --- In PPLetterpress@y..., "caldrich45" <carolealdrich@e...> wrote:
      > I just purchased a book that I think will be of use to all in this
      group. "The
      > Complete Manual of Typography" by James Felici, Adobe Press, ISBN
      > 0-321-12730-7 available at Amazon.com. It covers all aspects of setting
      > elegant type on the computer and IMHO is an invaluable reference for
      those
      > of us setting type on our computers.



      Besides this book there have been a couple other recent type "primers"
      of merit:

      _A Type Primer_ by John Kane
      _Type & Typography_ by Phil Baines & Anderew Haslam

      as well as the second edition of _Stop Stealing Sheep_ (which still
      sucks).


      Gerald
    • Kathy Walkup
      Thanks for the cogent and to-the-point comment on Stop Stealing . . . . I had this book foisted on me as an emergency hire to teach Typography at a local JC,
      Message 2 of 8 , Nov 1, 2002
        Thanks for the cogent and to-the-point comment on Stop Stealing . . . . I
        had this book foisted on me as an emergency hire to teach Typography at a
        local JC, and was horrified. I am amazed that it has lasted long enough to
        warrant a second edition. I do look forward to the other suggestions,
        though (except that I'm going to have to build an annex onto the house to
        contain my books on type).

        Kathy

        Kathleen A. Walkup
        Associate Professor
        Director, Book Arts Program
        Mills College
        5000 MacArthur Blvd.
        Oakland CA 94613

        510 430 2001/tel
        510 430 3314/fax
        kwalk@...

        On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Gerald Lange wrote:

        > --- In PPLetterpress@y..., "caldrich45" <carolealdrich@e...> wrote:
        > > I just purchased a book that I think will be of use to all in this
        > group. "The
        > > Complete Manual of Typography" by James Felici, Adobe Press, ISBN
        > > 0-321-12730-7 available at Amazon.com. It covers all aspects of setting
        > > elegant type on the computer and IMHO is an invaluable reference for
        > those
        > > of us setting type on our computers.
        >
        >
        >
        > Besides this book there have been a couple other recent type "primers"
        > of merit:
        >
        > _A Type Primer_ by John Kane
        > _Type & Typography_ by Phil Baines & Anderew Haslam
        >
        > as well as the second edition of _Stop Stealing Sheep_ (which still
        > sucks).
        >
        >
        > Gerald
        >
        >
        >
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      • Katie Harper
        I agree with Kathy: one can t have too many books about typography. While on the subject, we mustn t forget Geoffrey Dowding s excellent slim volume, Finer
        Message 3 of 8 , Nov 2, 2002
          I agree with Kathy: one can't have too many books about typography. While
          on the subject, we mustn't forget Geoffrey Dowding's excellent slim volume,
          Finer Points in the Spacing and Arranging of Type, which I have found doubly
          useful, since it applies to those of us who set metal perhaps even more than
          it does for setting digital type for photopolymer. When setting in metal
          nowadays, I hunt to find 5/em spaces for word spacing rather than 3/m, which
          now to me looks like such a large space it could house a family of four...

          As a teacher, I'm always looking for good typography books for students in
          beginning and intermediate stages. I agree with others on Stop Steeling
          Sheep, as much as I might admire Eric Spiekerman as a type designer. So many
          otherwise interesting or useful books on design or typography are themselves
          way over-designed and therefore rendered just about useless.

          Gerald: The two books you recommended:

          >> _A Type Primer_ by John Kane
          >> _Type & Typography_ by Phil Baines & Anderew Haslam

          would you say those are good for beginners?

          Katie Harper


          > From: Kathy Walkup <kwalk@...>
          > Reply-To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 17:37:46 -0800 (PST)
          > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Recommended Reading
          >
          > Thanks for the cogent and to-the-point comment on Stop Stealing . . . . I
          > had this book foisted on me as an emergency hire to teach Typography at a
          > local JC, and was horrified. I am amazed that it has lasted long enough to
          > warrant a second edition. I do look forward to the other suggestions,
          > though (except that I'm going to have to build an annex onto the house to
          > contain my books on type).
          >
          > Kathy
          >
          > Kathleen A. Walkup
          > Associate Professor
          > Director, Book Arts Program
          > Mills College
          > 5000 MacArthur Blvd.
          > Oakland CA 94613
          >
          > 510 430 2001/tel
          > 510 430 3314/fax
          > kwalk@...
          >
          > On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Gerald Lange wrote:
          >
        • Peter Fraterdeus
          ... Ah, be careful with Mr. Dowding. His arrangements are actually very poor. In any case, do as he says, not as he does. Check out the page on optical
          Message 4 of 8 , Nov 2, 2002
            At 9:32 AM -0500 2002-11-02, Katie Harper wrote:
            >I agree with Kathy: one can't have too many books about typography. While
            >on the subject, we mustn't forget Geoffrey Dowding's excellent slim volume,
            >Finer Points in the Spacing and Arranging of Type,

            Ah, be careful with Mr. Dowding.
            His arrangements are actually very poor.

            In any case, do as he says, not as he does.

            Check out the page on 'optical alignment of margins' and see if you can determine the problem. These are visual problems, and have to be solved visually, not mechanically.


            > which I have found doubly
            >useful, since it applies to those of us who set metal perhaps even more than
            >it does for setting digital type for photopolymer. When setting in metal
            >nowadays, I hunt to find 5/em spaces for word spacing rather than 3/m, which
            >now to me looks like such a large space it could house a family of four...
            >
            >As a teacher, I'm always looking for good typography books for students in
            >beginning and intermediate stages. I agree with others on Stop Steeling
            >Sheep, as much as I might admire Eric Spiekerman as a type designer.

            Would be interested in your critique of ESs book. Is it too German? Gerry?
            >...

            PF


            --
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            Peter Fraterdeus -:- peterf@... -:- Galena, Illinois
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          • ken botnick
            I have been teaching typography for a few years now and almost everyone I talk to who teaches says the same thing: ain t no text available that s worth much.
            Message 5 of 8 , Nov 3, 2002
              I have been teaching typography for a few years now and almost
              everyone I talk to who teaches says the same thing: ain't no text
              available that's worth much.

              However, this year I ordered Willi Kunz's TYPOGRAPHY: MACRO + MICRO
              AESTHETICS, published by Niggli/Willi Kunz Books, ISBN 3-7212-0348-8.
              It is extremely well organized, has a nice balance of theory and
              practice, and it is really beautifully presented, a very nice
              package, which is important given its price. (I have 'tested' this
              book on a few non-type types and the response has usually been
              something along the lines of "oh, so that's what you do", which I
              have taken to be a good sign.)

              Not only a source of much good typographic information but a very
              nice lesson in book design.

              Ken
              --
              Ken Botnick
              Associate Professor, Visual Communications
              Washington University, Saint Louis
              314.935.8402 x 1 office
              314.968.5060 home
              http://www.em-dash.org


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Gerald Lange
              ... Hi Peter Not exactly sure what the German reference means. Spiekermann? If so, Spiekermann’s well received work for the Unified Berlin Transport
              Message 6 of 8 , Nov 3, 2002
                Peter Fraterdeus wrote:

                >Would be interested in your critique of ESs book. Is it too German? Gerry?
                >
                Hi Peter

                Not exactly sure what the German reference means. Spiekermann?

                If so, Spiekermann’s well received work for the Unified Berlin Transport
                Authority seems to be quite absent from _Stop Stealing Sheep_. I
                reviewed the first edition in an old _AbraCadaBrA_ and if I were to
                review the second I doubt I would change much.

                Essentially, the book panders, a lot. It came out about the same time as
                Bringhurst's initially, but where _Elements of Typographic Style_ sought
                the high road, _SSS_ definitely went the other way. I'm not sure how
                much of this is Adobe's ( the publlisher) fault. I suspect there is
                something going on there. Adobe came out with its desperate Wild Type
                collection about the time _SSS_ was in manuscript form.

                _SSS_ is a 90s reworking of Spiekermann’s earlier book, _Rhyme & Reason:
                a typographic novel_ (H. Berthold AG, 1987), which had a bit more
                substance and was a bit more accessible, though in retrospect was
                indicative of the cuteness and cleverness and entertainment that would
                follow. But in terms of information design, _SSS_ is completely lacking.
                It is quite difficult to know where you are or to find out what you
                need. (The useful information that is provided, can easily be found in
                other sources.) Since the book seems to be aimed at the "newly
                initiated" to fontography it seems a bit odd that it doesn't provide
                useful directional aids for the reader.

                The second edition seems to have been revised a tad to include a
                contemporary awareness of the impact of the internet, to tone down the
                "effort" to be 90s hip (not very successful), and to include more
                samples of current fontography, less grunge, and more of what we would
                consider today, classic fonts, especially, Adobe fonts.

                But even though the authors' apologize for screwing up Goudy's dictum,
                he meant "blackletter" not "lowercase," they still miss the significance
                of why he said it.

                Gerald
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