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Re: [PPLetterpress] Recommended Reading

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  • Katie Harper
    Thanks for the recommendation. It looks like a really useful book. I have another one to recommend: Making Digital Type Look Good by Bob Gordon
    Message 1 of 8 , Nov 1, 2002
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      Thanks for the recommendation. It looks like a really useful book. I have
      another one to recommend: Making Digital Type Look Good by Bob Gordon
      (Watson-Guptill). One of the most useful parts is Part 2, where there are
      samples of various typefaces at various Quark word/letter/hyphenation
      settings. This mostly deals with print/body setting, but there is also a
      section on typesetting challenges for display and web.


      Katie Harper
      Ars Brevis Press
      Cincinnati, OH
      513-233-9588
      http://www.arsbrevispress.com





      > From: "caldrich45" <carolealdrich@...>
      > Reply-To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Fri, 01 Nov 2002 15:37:41 -0000
      > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [PPLetterpress] Recommended Reading
      >
      > Complete Manual of Typography
    • Gerald Lange
      ... group. The ... those ... Besides this book there have been a couple other recent type primers of merit: _A Type Primer_ by John Kane _Type & Typography_
      Message 2 of 8 , Nov 1, 2002
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        --- In PPLetterpress@y..., "caldrich45" <carolealdrich@e...> wrote:
        > I just purchased a book that I think will be of use to all in this
        group. "The
        > Complete Manual of Typography" by James Felici, Adobe Press, ISBN
        > 0-321-12730-7 available at Amazon.com. It covers all aspects of setting
        > elegant type on the computer and IMHO is an invaluable reference for
        those
        > of us setting type on our computers.



        Besides this book there have been a couple other recent type "primers"
        of merit:

        _A Type Primer_ by John Kane
        _Type & Typography_ by Phil Baines & Anderew Haslam

        as well as the second edition of _Stop Stealing Sheep_ (which still
        sucks).


        Gerald
      • Kathy Walkup
        Thanks for the cogent and to-the-point comment on Stop Stealing . . . . I had this book foisted on me as an emergency hire to teach Typography at a local JC,
        Message 3 of 8 , Nov 1, 2002
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          Thanks for the cogent and to-the-point comment on Stop Stealing . . . . I
          had this book foisted on me as an emergency hire to teach Typography at a
          local JC, and was horrified. I am amazed that it has lasted long enough to
          warrant a second edition. I do look forward to the other suggestions,
          though (except that I'm going to have to build an annex onto the house to
          contain my books on type).

          Kathy

          Kathleen A. Walkup
          Associate Professor
          Director, Book Arts Program
          Mills College
          5000 MacArthur Blvd.
          Oakland CA 94613

          510 430 2001/tel
          510 430 3314/fax
          kwalk@...

          On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Gerald Lange wrote:

          > --- In PPLetterpress@y..., "caldrich45" <carolealdrich@e...> wrote:
          > > I just purchased a book that I think will be of use to all in this
          > group. "The
          > > Complete Manual of Typography" by James Felici, Adobe Press, ISBN
          > > 0-321-12730-7 available at Amazon.com. It covers all aspects of setting
          > > elegant type on the computer and IMHO is an invaluable reference for
          > those
          > > of us setting type on our computers.
          >
          >
          >
          > Besides this book there have been a couple other recent type "primers"
          > of merit:
          >
          > _A Type Primer_ by John Kane
          > _Type & Typography_ by Phil Baines & Anderew Haslam
          >
          > as well as the second edition of _Stop Stealing Sheep_ (which still
          > sucks).
          >
          >
          > Gerald
          >
          >
          >
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        • Katie Harper
          I agree with Kathy: one can t have too many books about typography. While on the subject, we mustn t forget Geoffrey Dowding s excellent slim volume, Finer
          Message 4 of 8 , Nov 2, 2002
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            I agree with Kathy: one can't have too many books about typography. While
            on the subject, we mustn't forget Geoffrey Dowding's excellent slim volume,
            Finer Points in the Spacing and Arranging of Type, which I have found doubly
            useful, since it applies to those of us who set metal perhaps even more than
            it does for setting digital type for photopolymer. When setting in metal
            nowadays, I hunt to find 5/em spaces for word spacing rather than 3/m, which
            now to me looks like such a large space it could house a family of four...

            As a teacher, I'm always looking for good typography books for students in
            beginning and intermediate stages. I agree with others on Stop Steeling
            Sheep, as much as I might admire Eric Spiekerman as a type designer. So many
            otherwise interesting or useful books on design or typography are themselves
            way over-designed and therefore rendered just about useless.

            Gerald: The two books you recommended:

            >> _A Type Primer_ by John Kane
            >> _Type & Typography_ by Phil Baines & Anderew Haslam

            would you say those are good for beginners?

            Katie Harper


            > From: Kathy Walkup <kwalk@...>
            > Reply-To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2002 17:37:46 -0800 (PST)
            > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Recommended Reading
            >
            > Thanks for the cogent and to-the-point comment on Stop Stealing . . . . I
            > had this book foisted on me as an emergency hire to teach Typography at a
            > local JC, and was horrified. I am amazed that it has lasted long enough to
            > warrant a second edition. I do look forward to the other suggestions,
            > though (except that I'm going to have to build an annex onto the house to
            > contain my books on type).
            >
            > Kathy
            >
            > Kathleen A. Walkup
            > Associate Professor
            > Director, Book Arts Program
            > Mills College
            > 5000 MacArthur Blvd.
            > Oakland CA 94613
            >
            > 510 430 2001/tel
            > 510 430 3314/fax
            > kwalk@...
            >
            > On Fri, 1 Nov 2002, Gerald Lange wrote:
            >
          • Peter Fraterdeus
            ... Ah, be careful with Mr. Dowding. His arrangements are actually very poor. In any case, do as he says, not as he does. Check out the page on optical
            Message 5 of 8 , Nov 2, 2002
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              At 9:32 AM -0500 2002-11-02, Katie Harper wrote:
              >I agree with Kathy: one can't have too many books about typography. While
              >on the subject, we mustn't forget Geoffrey Dowding's excellent slim volume,
              >Finer Points in the Spacing and Arranging of Type,

              Ah, be careful with Mr. Dowding.
              His arrangements are actually very poor.

              In any case, do as he says, not as he does.

              Check out the page on 'optical alignment of margins' and see if you can determine the problem. These are visual problems, and have to be solved visually, not mechanically.


              > which I have found doubly
              >useful, since it applies to those of us who set metal perhaps even more than
              >it does for setting digital type for photopolymer. When setting in metal
              >nowadays, I hunt to find 5/em spaces for word spacing rather than 3/m, which
              >now to me looks like such a large space it could house a family of four...
              >
              >As a teacher, I'm always looking for good typography books for students in
              >beginning and intermediate stages. I agree with others on Stop Steeling
              >Sheep, as much as I might admire Eric Spiekerman as a type designer.

              Would be interested in your critique of ESs book. Is it too German? Gerry?
              >...

              PF


              --
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              Peter Fraterdeus -:- peterf@... -:- Galena, Illinois
              dezineCafe : www.dezinecafe.com | A*IFonts : www.alphabets.com

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            • ken botnick
              I have been teaching typography for a few years now and almost everyone I talk to who teaches says the same thing: ain t no text available that s worth much.
              Message 6 of 8 , Nov 3, 2002
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                I have been teaching typography for a few years now and almost
                everyone I talk to who teaches says the same thing: ain't no text
                available that's worth much.

                However, this year I ordered Willi Kunz's TYPOGRAPHY: MACRO + MICRO
                AESTHETICS, published by Niggli/Willi Kunz Books, ISBN 3-7212-0348-8.
                It is extremely well organized, has a nice balance of theory and
                practice, and it is really beautifully presented, a very nice
                package, which is important given its price. (I have 'tested' this
                book on a few non-type types and the response has usually been
                something along the lines of "oh, so that's what you do", which I
                have taken to be a good sign.)

                Not only a source of much good typographic information but a very
                nice lesson in book design.

                Ken
                --
                Ken Botnick
                Associate Professor, Visual Communications
                Washington University, Saint Louis
                314.935.8402 x 1 office
                314.968.5060 home
                http://www.em-dash.org


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Gerald Lange
                ... Hi Peter Not exactly sure what the German reference means. Spiekermann? If so, Spiekermann’s well received work for the Unified Berlin Transport
                Message 7 of 8 , Nov 3, 2002
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                  Peter Fraterdeus wrote:

                  >Would be interested in your critique of ESs book. Is it too German? Gerry?
                  >
                  Hi Peter

                  Not exactly sure what the German reference means. Spiekermann?

                  If so, Spiekermann’s well received work for the Unified Berlin Transport
                  Authority seems to be quite absent from _Stop Stealing Sheep_. I
                  reviewed the first edition in an old _AbraCadaBrA_ and if I were to
                  review the second I doubt I would change much.

                  Essentially, the book panders, a lot. It came out about the same time as
                  Bringhurst's initially, but where _Elements of Typographic Style_ sought
                  the high road, _SSS_ definitely went the other way. I'm not sure how
                  much of this is Adobe's ( the publlisher) fault. I suspect there is
                  something going on there. Adobe came out with its desperate Wild Type
                  collection about the time _SSS_ was in manuscript form.

                  _SSS_ is a 90s reworking of Spiekermann’s earlier book, _Rhyme & Reason:
                  a typographic novel_ (H. Berthold AG, 1987), which had a bit more
                  substance and was a bit more accessible, though in retrospect was
                  indicative of the cuteness and cleverness and entertainment that would
                  follow. But in terms of information design, _SSS_ is completely lacking.
                  It is quite difficult to know where you are or to find out what you
                  need. (The useful information that is provided, can easily be found in
                  other sources.) Since the book seems to be aimed at the "newly
                  initiated" to fontography it seems a bit odd that it doesn't provide
                  useful directional aids for the reader.

                  The second edition seems to have been revised a tad to include a
                  contemporary awareness of the impact of the internet, to tone down the
                  "effort" to be 90s hip (not very successful), and to include more
                  samples of current fontography, less grunge, and more of what we would
                  consider today, classic fonts, especially, Adobe fonts.

                  But even though the authors' apologize for screwing up Goudy's dictum,
                  he meant "blackletter" not "lowercase," they still miss the significance
                  of why he said it.

                  Gerald
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