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Setting type before the Linotype

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  • Aaron
    Did newspapers, before purchasing Linotypes/Intertypes cast their only type. Setting newspapers require a lot of type. And I just can not see how a small
    Message 1 of 10 , Jul 22, 2008
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      Did newspapers, before purchasing Linotypes/Intertypes cast their only
      type. Setting newspapers require a lot of type. And I just can not see
      how a small newspaper shop could have tons of type on hand.
      Aaron Poscovsky
    • Scott Rubel
      When you look at most newspapers before the introduction of typesetting machines, they were quite small, often only one double-sided page. It was the
      Message 2 of 10 , Jul 22, 2008
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        When you look at most newspapers before the introduction of typesetting
        machines, they were quite small, often only one double-sided page. It
        was the convergence of a number of things, especially typesetting
        machines and advances in availability and technology in papermaking that
        enabled larger papers to come out at a more regular pace.

        But, yes, many papers, especially in large cities, had tons and tons of
        type. I had a glimpse of what it may have been like when I visited a
        letterpress shop in a small town in Chile. I had never seen so many
        cases in one place as I saw there. I can imagine many forms easily being
        set with the amount of type they had there.

        --Scott

        Aaron wrote:
        > Did newspapers, before purchasing Linotypes/Intertypes cast their only
        > type. Setting newspapers require a lot of type. And I just can not see
        > how a small newspaper shop could have tons of type on hand.
        > Aaron Poscovsky
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
      • mike day
        Aaron, I stumbled on this book last year. It goes into detail about newspaper comp rooms and metal type. There are statistic in it about how many pounds of
        Message 3 of 10 , Jul 22, 2008
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          Aaron,

          I stumbled on this book last year. It goes into detail about newspaper comp
          rooms and metal type. There are statistic in it about how many pounds of
          type the foundries sold per month and it was in the millions. All the papers
          bought type. I would imagine the smaller papers bought less. But remember,
          they used it until it was worn out then sent it back for re-melting and
          bought more. You will have to check the book for exact numbers. It was a
          very good read. It also described the advent of the Linotype machines at the
          biggest newspapers and the affect on the composing room workers and the type
          foundries.

          The Swifts: Printers in the Age of Typesetting Races by Walker Rumble.Mike
          Day

          On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 2:31 PM, Aaron <aaronp@...> wrote:

          > Did newspapers, before purchasing Linotypes/Intertypes cast their only
          > type. Setting newspapers require a lot of type. And I just can not see
          > how a small newspaper shop could have tons of type on hand.
          > Aaron Poscovsky
          >
          >
          >



          --
          Mike Day
          Long Day Press
          Sunnyvale CA


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • nagraph1
          I ve seen the production records for ATF for the end of the recession years of 1937-38 and even then they were casting in excess of 2 million pounds of type a
          Message 4 of 10 , Jul 22, 2008
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            I've seen the production records for ATF for the end of the recession
            years of 1937-38 and even then they were casting in excess of 2
            million pounds of type a year, but I doubt that very little of that
            was intended for the few handset papers still being printed in the
            U.S. The bulk of it was for job shops and advertising display work.

            Fritz

            --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "mike day" <vangogh1888@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Aaron,
            >
            > I stumbled on this book last year. It goes into detail about
            newspaper comp
            > rooms and metal type. There are statistic in it about how many
            pounds of
            > type the foundries sold per month and it was in the millions. All
            the papers
            > bought type. I would imagine the smaller papers bought less. But
            remember,
            > they used it until it was worn out then sent it back for re-melting
            and
            > bought more. You will have to check the book for exact numbers. It
            was a
            > very good read. It also described the advent of the Linotype
            machines at the
            > biggest newspapers and the affect on the composing room workers and
            the type
            > foundries.
            >
            > The Swifts: Printers in the Age of Typesetting Races by Walker
            Rumble.Mike
            > Day
            >
            > On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 2:31 PM, Aaron <aaronp@...> wrote:
            >
            > > Did newspapers, before purchasing Linotypes/Intertypes cast
            their only
            > > type. Setting newspapers require a lot of type. And I just can
            not see
            > > how a small newspaper shop could have tons of type on hand.
            > > Aaron Poscovsky
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            > --
            > Mike Day
            > Long Day Press
            > Sunnyvale CA
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • typebob
            Here s a link to a great article that was in American Heritage magazine a few years back. It s a great overview of the days of handsetting type and the
            Message 5 of 10 , Aug 1, 2008
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              Here's a link to a great article that was in American Heritage magazine a few years back.
              It's a great overview of the days of handsetting type and the typesetting races that
              compositors entered.

              It's hard to imagine setting an average of 8 letters in five seconds. Just watch a clock and
              try to move your hand that fast...let alone pick up the right letters! Amazing stuff!

              http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/magazine/it/2001/4/2001_4_40.shtml



              BTW: American Heritage is a really great magazine. You can search their website for topics
              like Linotype, etc, etc. Check it out.

              Bob
            • Peter Fraterdeus
              I ve got an 1806 edition of Samuel Johnson s Dictionary In Miniature (damaged, the last section, a history of the French revolution -- quite recent at the
              Message 6 of 10 , Aug 1, 2008
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                I've got an 1806 edition of Samuel Johnson's Dictionary "In
                Miniature" (damaged, the last section, a history of the French
                revolution -- quite recent at the time --ends in a torn page just
                before Marie Antoinette loses her head) set in what must be the
                equivalent of Three point type! (three equally spaced lines in five
                mm. Cap height very close to 1mm )

                The book is about 3.5 by 5.5 inches +-280pp, and has only a short one
                line definition of the words... There are roughly 140 definitions per
                page in two columns.

                Johnson being famous for definitions such as:

                Garlic, n. a well known plant

                In the "Advertisement" (we would call it the "Forward") the editor
                writes finally:

                " Anxious to please as well as to instruct, the Editor has procured a
                Type of unequalled Symmetry and Beauty ; the Paper is of the finest
                Quality and Texture, and the typographical Execution unrivalled.
                " With these Advantages and Embellishments, he submits the Dictionary
                to public Approbation, solicitious of Patronage only proportioned to
                its Merits."

                Interestingly, the type has no long 's'. Certainly this is a recent
                development at the time, as there are plenty of books printed well
                into the 19th C which still used the long medial 's' (finial s was
                never long...)

                When I'm talking to students, I try to get them to imagine what it
                took to set this book in type. Very small fingers and sharp eyes! (and
                magnifiers!)

                Personally, I can't imagine it!

                :-)

                P


                On 1 Aug 2008, at 10:07 PM, typebob wrote:

                > Here's a link to a great article that was in American Heritage
                > magazine a few years back.
                > It's a great overview of the days of handsetting type and the
                > typesetting races that
                > compositors entered.
                >
                > It's hard to imagine setting an average of 8 letters in five
                > seconds. Just watch a clock and
                > try to move your hand that fast...let alone pick up the right
                > letters! Amazing stuff!
                >
                > http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/magazine/it/2001/4/2001_4_40.shtml
                >
                >
                >
                > BTW: American Heritage is a really great magazine. You can search
                > their website for topics
                > like Linotype, etc, etc. Check it out.
                >
                > Bob

                Peter Fraterdeus
                Exquisite Letterpress
                http://slowprint.com








                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Gerald Lange
                Peter The English publisher John Bell is credited with the abandonment of the long s in an edition of Shakespeare. Johnson and Bell were contemporaries. I had
                Message 7 of 10 , Aug 1, 2008
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                  Peter

                  The English publisher John Bell is credited with the abandonment of the
                  long s in an edition of Shakespeare. Johnson and Bell were
                  contemporaries. I had several cases of music type a while back that I
                  think was four point? (type size name was excelsior) and all the musics
                  were separate. There was also a small page of it set in a tiny chase and
                  when viewed from the back side. Whoa!

                  Gerald

                  Peter Fraterdeus wrote:
                  > I've got an 1806 edition of Samuel Johnson's Dictionary "In
                  > Miniature" (damaged, the last section, a history of the French
                  > revolution -- quite recent at the time --ends in a torn page just
                  > before Marie Antoinette loses her head) set in what must be the
                  > equivalent of Three point type! (three equally spaced lines in five
                  > mm. Cap height very close to 1mm )
                  >
                  > The book is about 3.5 by 5.5 inches +-280pp, and has only a short one
                  > line definition of the words... There are roughly 140 definitions per
                  > page in two columns.
                  >
                  > Johnson being famous for definitions such as:
                  >
                  > Garlic, n. a well known plant
                  >
                  > In the "Advertisement" (we would call it the "Forward") the editor
                  > writes finally:
                  >
                  > " Anxious to please as well as to instruct, the Editor has procured a
                  > Type of unequalled Symmetry and Beauty ; the Paper is of the finest
                  > Quality and Texture, and the typographical Execution unrivalled.
                  > " With these Advantages and Embellishments, he submits the Dictionary
                  > to public Approbation, solicitious of Patronage only proportioned to
                  > its Merits."
                  >
                  > Interestingly, the type has no long 's'. Certainly this is a recent
                  > development at the time, as there are plenty of books printed well
                  > into the 19th C which still used the long medial 's' (finial s was
                  > never long...)
                  >
                  > When I'm talking to students, I try to get them to imagine what it
                  > took to set this book in type. Very small fingers and sharp eyes! (and
                  > magnifiers!)
                  >
                  > Personally, I can't imagine it!
                  >
                  > :-)
                  >
                  > P
                  >
                  >
                  > On 1 Aug 2008, at 10:07 PM, typebob wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >> Here's a link to a great article that was in American Heritage
                  >> magazine a few years back.
                  >> It's a great overview of the days of handsetting type and the
                  >> typesetting races that
                  >> compositors entered.
                  >>
                  >> It's hard to imagine setting an average of 8 letters in five
                  >> seconds. Just watch a clock and
                  >> try to move your hand that fast...let alone pick up the right
                  >> letters! Amazing stuff!
                  >>
                  >> http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/magazine/it/2001/4/2001_4_40.shtml
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> BTW: American Heritage is a really great magazine. You can search
                  >> their website for topics
                  >> like Linotype, etc, etc. Check it out.
                  >>
                  >> Bob
                  >>
                  >
                  > Peter Fraterdeus
                  > Exquisite Letterpress
                  > http://slowprint.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Peter Fraterdeus
                  ... Ah, Indeed! Thanks for the pointer. So that would be late 18th C. Oops. I misread Bell for Fell in a previous message. Anyway.... Not Fell types ;-) ...
                  Message 8 of 10 , Aug 2, 2008
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                    On 2 Aug 2008, at 1:12 AM, Gerald Lange wrote:

                    > Peter
                    >
                    > The English publisher John Bell is credited with the abandonment of
                    > the
                    > long s in an edition of Shakespeare.

                    Ah, Indeed!
                    Thanks for the pointer.
                    So that would be late 18th C.

                    Oops. I misread Bell for Fell in a previous message. Anyway.... Not
                    Fell types ;-)

                    > Johnson and Bell were
                    > contemporaries. I had several cases of music type a while back that I
                    > think was four point? (type size name was excelsior) and all the
                    > musics
                    > were separate. There was also a small page of it set in a tiny chase
                    > and
                    > when viewed from the back side. Whoa!

                    Early nano-tech!

                    ciao
                    p

                    >
                    >
                    > Gerald
                    >

                    Peter Fraterdeus
                    Exquisite Letterpress
                    http://slowprint.com








                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Gerald Lange
                    Hi again Just have to say this re the Garlic thing. Johnson s dictionary standardized the English language. Period. Joseph Moxon, writing one hundred years
                    Message 9 of 10 , Aug 2, 2008
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                      Hi again

                      Just have to say this re the Garlic thing. Johnson's dictionary
                      standardized the English language. Period.

                      Joseph Moxon, writing one hundred years prior the first book on
                      printing, and who is quite difficult to read, is on record for
                      pleading for just such a thing. Samuel Johnson rules. Garlic or no.

                      Gerald
                      >
                      > I've got an 1806 edition of Samuel Johnson's Dictionary "In
                      > Miniature" (damaged, the last section, a history of the French
                      > revolution -- quite recent at the time --ends in a torn page just
                      > before Marie Antoinette loses her head) set in what must be the
                      > equivalent of Three point type! (three equally spaced lines in five
                      > mm. Cap height very close to 1mm )
                      >
                      > The book is about 3.5 by 5.5 inches +-280pp, and has only a short one
                      > line definition of the words... There are roughly 140 definitions per
                      > page in two columns.
                      >
                      > Johnson being famous for definitions such as:
                      >
                      > Garlic, n. a well known plant
                      >
                      > In the "Advertisement" (we would call it the "Forward") the editor
                      > writes finally:
                      >
                      > " Anxious to please as well as to instruct, the Editor has procured a
                      > Type of unequalled Symmetry and Beauty ; the Paper is of the finest
                      > Quality and Texture, and the typographical Execution unrivalled.
                      > " With these Advantages and Embellishments, he submits the Dictionary
                      > to public Approbation, solicitious of Patronage only proportioned to
                      > its Merits."
                      >
                      > Interestingly, the type has no long 's'. Certainly this is a recent
                      > development at the time, as there are plenty of books printed well
                      > into the 19th C which still used the long medial 's' (finial s was
                      > never long...)
                      >
                      > When I'm talking to students, I try to get them to imagine what it
                      > took to set this book in type. Very small fingers and sharp eyes! (and
                      > magnifiers!)
                      >
                      > Personally, I can't imagine it!
                      >
                      > :-)
                      >
                      > P
                      >
                      >
                      > On 1 Aug 2008, at 10:07 PM, typebob wrote:
                      >
                      > > Here's a link to a great article that was in American Heritage
                      > > magazine a few years back.
                      > > It's a great overview of the days of handsetting type and the
                      > > typesetting races that
                      > > compositors entered.
                      > >
                      > > It's hard to imagine setting an average of 8 letters in five
                      > > seconds. Just watch a clock and
                      > > try to move your hand that fast...let alone pick up the right
                      > > letters! Amazing stuff!
                      > >
                      > >
                      http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/magazine/it/2001/4/2001_4_40.shtml
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > BTW: American Heritage is a really great magazine. You can search
                      > > their website for topics
                      > > like Linotype, etc, etc. Check it out.
                      > >
                      > > Bob
                      >
                      > Peter Fraterdeus
                      > Exquisite Letterpress
                      > http://slowprint.com
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • Peter Fraterdeus
                      ... Indeed. And with definitions that only an English speaker could love ;-) In the most positive sense, really! Johnson s lovely one-liners were more about
                      Message 10 of 10 , Aug 3, 2008
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                        On 2 Aug 2008, at 11:13 PM, Gerald Lange wrote:

                        > Hi again
                        >
                        > Just have to say this re the Garlic thing. Johnson's dictionary
                        > standardized the English language. Period.

                        Indeed.
                        And with definitions that only an English speaker could love ;-)

                        In the most positive sense, really!

                        Johnson's lovely one-liners were more about standardizing spelling
                        than about encyclopedic reference. But there's a great and subtle wit
                        to them which makes this dictionary a great read, even at three points!

                        Ciao

                        P.

                        >> Johnson being famous for definitions such as:
                        >>
                        >> Garlic, n. a well known plant

                        >
                        >
                        > Joseph Moxon, writing one hundred years prior the first book on
                        > printing, and who is quite difficult to read, is on record for
                        > pleading for just such a thing. Samuel Johnson rules. Garlic or no.
                        >
                        > Gerald

                        Peter Fraterdeus
                        Exquisite Letterpress
                        http://slowprint.com








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