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Potions in IE Myths!

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  • Wade
    Hey guys, I was wondering if I could ask for some help. At the moment I am writing something dealing with magick potions associated with deities in world
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 3, 2010
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      Hey guys, I was wondering if I could ask for some help. At the moment I am writing something dealing with magick potions associated with deities in world mythology, but I'm having a bit of a time with it. I was hoping that you guys could help me to get my intellectual ball rolling by throwing out some ideas, particularly from I-E cultures! :o)

      Presently, my list of deities (gods and goddesses) include; it
      s rather in note-form at the moment:

      * CERRIDWEN (Welsh)
      * CHANGO (Yoruban Diasporic)
      * CIRCE (Greek)
      * DINARA (Slavonic?); I found one brief reference to her, but def. need more to go on!
      * GRIMHILD (Norse?). Cf. "Sigurd". Surprisingly, I haven't been able to locate anything about either figure in my oh-so-trusted Simek "Dictionary of Northern Mythology"!
      * HAUMEA (Polynesian)
      * HERB WOMAN (Native American); I haven't been able to find any academic sources about her, to date...just references in similar articles without citations.
      * IEZHIBABA (Slavonic)
      * ISIS (Egypt)
      * JEŽHIBABA (Slovanic)
      * MEDEA (Greco-Roman)
      * OSAIN (Cuba/ Lwa)
      * OSHUN AKUARA (Yoruban Diasporic): She brews love potions.
      * TELLUS (Roman)
      * VAC (Balinese/ Hindu?)
      * XIWANGMU (Chinese): She is the Queen Mother of the West.

      Also, there are a few questions that I'd like to answer that I have jotted-down in note fashion, that you guys might really be able to help me with (I hope!):

      1.) In the Tristan & Isolde texts, does Isolde's mother bear a proper name of any kind? It's be nice to call her something other than just "Queen so-and-so" or "Isolde's mother".

      2.) I came upon another interesting-sounding goddess, but...I have no idea who She is! Because Google will only allow me to read a snippet of this book ("Pacific Mythology, by Jan Knappert), all I know of this figure is:

      "She is another manifestation of Durga, the Goddess of Death, but is also the Goddess of Magic and Love-Potions and of Wealth. She is sometimes identified with Ratu Lara Kidul (see Ocean-Goddess) and Lara ..."

      Could this be Kali? *shrugs* I've never heard of any Hindu goddesses explicitly associated with Magick, or with potions in particular--let alone Kali! (I only bring this up because the chapter appears to be called "Kala - Kali", but that may not be the context of the passage I was able to quote above.) So, any help solving this question would be greatly appreciated!

      3.) There's another fascinating myth that I'd love to find more specifics on for my research, such as the names of the brother and sister involved, and more about the mint used in traditional love potions from this culture!!! Anyway, there's apparently a myth from either Africa, or the Americas in which a woman (from some district called "Kumilabwa") concocts a coconut-based love potion for her brother, but gets some of it on herself which makes her fall in love with him. Basically, the run away together, die in a cave, and mint blooms from their chests which is used in love potions, because incest in this culture apparently *does* occur! Can anyone help me to fill in any of the blanks, here? I can ONLY find it in one VERY brief source on-line, and one source ONLY! I used every search-string I could think of and found not one further lead. Guys, it's times like this that I want to bang my head on something.... Likely if you search for "kumilabwa", "mint", "coconut", and "potion", Google will take you to the exact same academic site I acquired that from, as well.

      Thanks & Take care,
      Wade
    • Francesco Brighenti
      ... Tantric traditions of sorcery and black magic, which are always associated with the propitiation of female deities, abound with elements such as love
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 6, 2010
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        --- In PIEreligion@yahoogroups.com, "Wade" <Wade@...> wrote:

        > I came upon another interesting-sounding goddess, but...I have no
        > idea who She is! Because Google will only allow me to read a
        > snippet of this book ("Pacific Mythology, by Jan Knappert), all I
        > know of this figure is:
        >
        > "She is another manifestation of Durga, the Goddess of Death, but
        > is also the Goddess of Magic and Love-Potions and of Wealth. She
        > is sometimes identified with Ratu Lara Kidul (see Ocean-Goddess)
        > and Lara ..."
        >
        > Could this be Kali? *shrugs* I've never heard of any Hindu
        > goddesses explicitly associated with Magick, or with potions in
        > particular--let alone Kali!

        Tantric traditions of sorcery and black magic, which are always associated with the propitiation of female deities, abound with elements such as love potions, magical killing, demonic control, etc. etc. For a couple of hints at these magico-religious phenomena, which have deep roots in India's remote past, see:

        http://tinyurl.com/376xvzl
        http://tinyurl.com/3ysts6n

        (Yet the literature on this is far more copious!)

        As for your citation from Jan Knappert's _Pacofic Mythology_, the full sentence is as follows:

        "Kali is the dreaded Hindu-Javanese and Balinese Goddess of Time, spouse of Siwa -- Bairawi in Hindu-Javanese myth. She is another manifestation of Durga, the Goddess of Death, but is also the Goddess of Magic and Love-Potions and of Wealth. She is sometimes identified with Ratu Lara Kidul (see Ocean-Goddess) and Lara Loggrang" (p. 145).

        As a matter of fact, in Balinese Hindu sorcery love-potions are the domain of the fearful Rangda, Goddess of Power (i.e. "S'akti" in the Hindu parlance) and Queen Sorceress, whose myth of origin is summarized here:

        http://tinyurl.com/2ubnrj6

        Rangda therefore is the same as (or an emanation of) Durga/Kali, the destructive and frenzied aspect of the Hindu Great Goddess (S'iva's spouse). Her myth of origin is very similar to the Indian Puranic myths about the origin of, respectively, Durga and Kali.

        In Bali, Rangda symbolizes the art of black magic and the secret skills of withcraft, which are specially concerned with love potions (made up by sorcerers with disgusting elements like the dirt of the body or the excrement of the person who is to be the subject of the sorcery) and love charms.

        Hope this helps,
        Francesco Brighenti
      • Wade
        Awesome finds!!! Thank you sooooo much! Nothing annoys me, more, than when I cannot find a complete fact and only have a piece of information to go on with a
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 6, 2010
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          Awesome finds!!! Thank you sooooo much! Nothing annoys me, more, than when I cannot find a complete fact and only have a piece of information to go on with a lot seemingly missing (it's maddening!). BTW, where'd you find that complete sentence fragment?! I looked high and low to try and get a hold of that sucker! :oP

          I'd give you just the biggest hug, right now, if I could.

          Oh, before I forget, I *may* need your help with the rest of the biblio. data from Knappert's book, should the publisher not be listed in its Google Books entry.

          > Tantric traditions of sorcery and black magic, which are always associated with the propitiation of female deities, abound with elements such as love potions, magical killing, demonic control, etc. etc. For a couple of hints at these magico-religious phenomena, which have deep roots in India's remote past, see:
          >
          > http://tinyurl.com/376xvzl
          > http://tinyurl.com/3ysts6n
          >
          > (Yet the literature on this is far more copious!)
          >
          > As for your citation from Jan Knappert's _Pacofic Mythology_, the full sentence is as follows:
          >
          > "Kali is the dreaded Hindu-Javanese and Balinese Goddess of Time, spouse of Siwa -- Bairawi in Hindu-Javanese myth. She is another manifestation of Durga, the Goddess of Death, but is also the Goddess of Magic and Love-Potions and of Wealth. She is sometimes identified with Ratu Lara Kidul (see Ocean-Goddess) and Lara Loggrang" (p. 145).
          >
          > As a matter of fact, in Balinese Hindu sorcery love-potions are the domain of the fearful Rangda, Goddess of Power (i.e. "S'akti" in the Hindu parlance) and Queen Sorceress, whose myth of origin is summarized here:
          >
          > http://tinyurl.com/2ubnrj6
          >
          > Rangda therefore is the same as (or an emanation of) Durga/Kali, the destructive and frenzied aspect of the Hindu Great Goddess (S'iva's spouse). Her myth of origin is very similar to the Indian Puranic myths about the origin of, respectively, Durga and Kali.
          >
          > In Bali, Rangda symbolizes the art of black magic and the secret skills of withcraft, which are specially concerned with love potions (made up by sorcerers with disgusting elements like the dirt of the body or the excrement of the person who is to be the subject of the sorcery) and love charms.
          >
          > Hope this helps,
          > Francesco Brighenti
          >
        • Wade
          BTW, if anyone else can think of other gods or goddesses associated with potions from the mythology of other I-E cultures that I have not yet noted, please
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 6, 2010
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            BTW, if anyone else can think of other gods or goddesses associated with potions from the mythology of other I-E cultures that I have not yet noted, please don't be afraid to speak up?! usually I am a quick-as-a-whip researcher in terms of rather arcane evidence, but this time I'm really having to struggle to find even hints. Bummer!
          • Francesco Brighenti
            ... Whenever you have got only some snippets of text from a scholarly book or article, you have to search the Google Books website, where a treasure of
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 7, 2010
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              --- In PIEreligion@yahoogroups.com, "Wade" <Wade@...> wrote:

              > Oh, before I forget, I *may* need your help with the rest of the
              > biblio. data from Knappert's book, should the publisher not be
              > listed in its Google Books entry.

              Whenever you have got only some snippets of text from a scholarly book or article, you have to search the Google Books website, where a treasure of publications is stored. You have to enter the texts snippet (within brackets) in the texts search box of the page. Sometimes the book or article can be only accessed in "snippet" preview, as in the case of the book of Knappert's we are dealing about:

              http://tinyurl.com/35qnuh6

              Then click on the link and start searching *inside* the publication, using other key words (in this case "spouse of Siwa", so as to continue the sentence and "reconstruct" the whole of it!). Here are the results you get in this case:

              http://tinyurl.com/35phnlg
              (note the page number in the second text box, which allows you to provide the complete citation of the passage).

              This is just my personal search method on Google Books, but it works egregiously! Thanks to it, and spending some amount of time on the search, I was able to "reconstruct", in certain cases, entire pages of rare books which I could never ever have accessed through the normal channels!

              Best,
              Francesco
            • CeiSerith@aol.com
              In a message dated 9/6/2010 11:33:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, ... and low to try and get a hold of that sucker! :oP One thing you can try on google books
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 7, 2010
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                In a message dated 9/6/2010 11:33:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                Wade@... writes:

                >!). BTW, where'd you find that complete sentence fragment?! I looked high
                and low to try and get a hold of that sucker! :oP
                One thing you can try on google books if there is something you want to
                read that's beyond the limit is to cut and paste a sentence from the end
                of the page into a google search. It will then allow you to see that page
                and a few more after that. I've used this technique to read articles in
                edited works.

                Ceisiwr Serith




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Wade
                ... Yup, that s what I usually do; however, my results usually have not returned any results with this subject matter. ... Wow! Usually when I hit a snippet
                Message 7 of 7 , Sep 7, 2010
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                  >>>Whenever you have got only some snippets of text from a scholarly book or article, you have to search the Google Books website, where a treasure of publications is stored. You have to enter the texts snippet (within brackets) in the texts search box of the page. Sometimes the book or article can be only accessed in "snippet" preview, as in the case of the book of Knappert's we are dealing about...<<<

                  Yup, that's what I usually do; however, my results usually have not returned any results with this subject matter.

                  >>>Then click on the link and start searching *inside* the publication, using other key words (in this case "spouse of Siwa", so as to continue the sentence and "reconstruct" the whole of it!). Here are the results you get in this case...<<<

                  Wow! Usually when I hit a snippet view, it's often the end of the road as there seem so many darned blocks to the data put in place!

                  >>>This is just my personal search method on Google Books, but it works egregiously! Thanks to it, and spending some amount of time on the search, I was able to "reconstruct", in certain cases, entire pages of rare books which I could never ever have accessed through the normal channels!<<<

                  Again, THANKS!

                  Take care,
                  Wade
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