Re: Yatra or Pilgrimage
- **I just realized that I had answered this on ADF PIE, whereas, I would prefer to discuss it here.
From: "ceiserith@..." <ceiserith@...>
Sent: Mon, May 24, 2010 7:52:57 AM
Subject: Re: [adf-proto-ie] Yatra or Pilgrimage
In a message dated 5/8/2010 6:30:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
I am putting together lists of places that are sacred to particular goddesses in any one of the particular language-speaking areas of the Indo-Europeans.
Ceisiwr Serith wrote:
>> Just out of curiosity, why are you limiting it to goddesses?**I'm not, of course. I just used the feminine form but you can include masculine deities if you like. I never put limitations on people.
>> In the US, except for sites sacred to the Indians (which have their own problems), most of our sacred sites are connected with Ancestors -- battlefields and cemeteries of the Revolutionary and Civil Wars, [etc, snipping much]**well, no, I wouldn't agree with that. I notice that many of our most "sacred sites" have been turned into national, state or local parks. In my observation, the same types of places are considered sacred to a deity in Europe and in India. It seems to me to be an aspect of human nature that people would try to keep especially beautiful places or things that have a "numinous" quality pristine and open to all. That includes caves, interesting or outstanding rocks
or mountains, rivers and waterfalls and especially old trees, such as the Wye Oak and the like. The American ones are not sacred in the same way that the pagan ones are and yet they seem to have the same impulse.
>>So are you interested in sites specific to goddesses, or are you planning on spreading things out?**whatever people are interested in and feel they can contribute to the topic. I am especially interested in European (and Indian) sites that can be identified with a particular goddess, *by name.*
>> I was also wondering what evidence we have of IE pilgrimages. There's a lot from Greece, and we may have some from Gaul and Britain, in the number of offerings at sacred sites, but is there any from anywhere else? Is the practice you reference from India IE or Hindu? I'm not sure it really matters; pilgrimages are found lots of places, and can be very moving personally. I'm just wondering.**I think the definition might vary somewhat, but I would use a broad
*Slavic, the whole community going to rivers at certain festival times of the year, to worship a goddess.
*Irish, trip to Crough Patrick (it used to be Crough Ailill), and broadly among Celts, hiking up a mountain in August, before the snows close things off.
*Greek, traveling from Athens to Elysia to celebrate the festival of Demeter in the fall; travel to the isle of Delos to celebrate and worship Leto, Artemis and Apollo. These are of rather different character, the festival at Elysia might be characterized as a procession, whereas the trip to Delos required going by ship. This variation seems reasonable to me.
*traveling to Finisterre on the coast of Spain to remember those who died at sea. This apparently long preceded the Christianized version of the pilgrimage to Santiago. What language the people spoke there before the introduction of Latin/Spanish is not certain. It may have been Celtic language but it may have been Phoenician or it may have been some other language, neither IE nor Semitic.
**I will try to put one of these together to show what I had in mind, I just hadn't had the time lately. Of course, I thought I would.