Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Woden, Mimir and Akwom Nepot

Expand Messages
  • Miryai
    Hello, I am a new member here. My name is Nikki, I am a 28-year-old mama of one living in the Boise, Idaho area. As a person of very mixed ancestry which
    Message 1 of 16 , Jul 6, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      Hello, I am a new member here. My name is Nikki, I am a 28-year-old
      mama of one living in the Boise, Idaho area.

      As a person of very mixed ancestry which mostly boils down to Celtic,
      Germanic and Polynesian, and with a husband of Germanic/Nordic
      ancestry, I have decided that in order to cover the most ancestral
      bases our family should honour the PIE gods, or maybe the
      Proto-Germanic gods.

      I have been researching various aspects of these religious systems and
      their reconstruction for a little while now, and have actually come to
      a fairly satisfactory corellation between the PIE and early Germanic
      pantheons. One area that i am still in doubt about is the Germanic
      equivalent of Akwom Nepot. I understand that the Germanic pantheon is
      a synthesis of PIE and native elements, however it seems there are
      certainly enough echoes of Akwom Nepot to demonstrate some kind of
      continuity. Obviously there is the Well, the Tree, the Mead of
      Inspiration etc. But it seems that in the Germanic myths, at least
      their later developments, have divided the function/s of Akwom Nepot
      between 2 separate deities: Mimir, who guards the Well of Memory and
      allows Woden to drink of it for the price of his eye, and Woden
      himself, who stole the Mead of Inspiration from the etins, keeps it in
      Asgard and gifts it to those he deems worthy. I think it is also
      interesting that Mimir is described as Woden's uncle, therefore Woden
      is the "nephew of the waters", in a manner of speaking.
      It seems to me that one of these roles must be a later development
      than the other; that perhaps Mimir, the Keeper of the Well, originally
      represented a much more important and powerful figure in Germanic
      mythology and was a god to be worshipped in his own right. Or, does
      Woden's drinking from the Well, which some believe to be a rite he
      performs on a daily basis like Mimir must, imply his usurpation of
      Mimir's function?
      Does anyone have any personal intuitions or knowledge to share on this
      subject? Is there any scholarly consensus on the identity of Akwom
      Nepot as manifested in the Germanic myths? Or am i way out in left
      field chasing butterflies?

      Thanks,
      Nikki
    • gotart04
      welcome Nikki. I am not an expert in the Germanic areas. I am more focused on Slavic stuff. But there are people here who are very knowledgeable. You came to
      Message 2 of 16 , Jul 6, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        welcome Nikki. I am not an expert in the Germanic areas. I am more focused on Slavic stuff. But there are people here who are very knowledgeable.
        You came to the right place!
        Chris gotart04

        Miryai <mari_ishtar@...> wrote:
        Hello, I am a new member here. My name is Nikki, I am a 28-year-old
        mama of one living in the Boise, Idaho area.

        As a person of very mixed ancestry which mostly boils down to Celtic,
        Germanic and Polynesian, and with a husband of Germanic/Nordic
        ancestry, I have decided that in order to cover the most ancestral
        bases our family should honour the PIE gods, or maybe the
        Proto-Germanic gods.

        I have been researching various aspects of these religious systems and
        their reconstruction for a little while now, and have actually come to
        a fairly satisfactory corellation between the PIE and early Germanic
        pantheons. One area that i am still in doubt about is the Germanic
        equivalent of Akwom Nepot. I understand that the Germanic pantheon is
        a synthesis of PIE and native elements, however it seems there are
        certainly enough echoes of Akwom Nepot to demonstrate some kind of
        continuity. Obviously there is the Well, the Tree, the Mead of
        Inspiration etc. But it seems that in the Germanic myths, at least
        their later developments, have divided the function/s of Akwom Nepot
        between 2 separate deities: Mimir, who guards the Well of Memory and
        allows Woden to drink of it for the price of his eye, and Woden
        himself, who stole the Mead of Inspiration from the etins, keeps it in
        Asgard and gifts it to those he deems worthy. I think it is also
        interesting that Mimir is described as Woden's uncle, therefore Woden
        is the "nephew of the waters", in a manner of speaking.
        It seems to me that one of these roles must be a later development
        than the other; that perhaps Mimir, the Keeper of the Well, originally
        represented a much more important and powerful figure in Germanic
        mythology and was a god to be worshipped in his own right. Or, does
        Woden's drinking from the Well, which some believe to be a rite he
        performs on a daily basis like Mimir must, imply his usurpation of
        Mimir's function?
        Does anyone have any personal intuitions or knowledge to share on this
        subject? Is there any scholarly consensus on the identity of Akwom
        Nepot as manifested in the Germanic myths? Or am i way out in left
        field chasing butterflies?

        Thanks,
        Nikki






        ---------------------------------
        Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Ken Pfrenger
        Hi Nikki, Welcome to the list! ... Being of mixed heritage myself....I came to the same basic conclusion some time ago. I have been researching various aspects
        Message 3 of 16 , Jul 6, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi Nikki, Welcome to the list!

          On 7/6/06, Miryai <mari_ishtar@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello, I am a new member here. My name is Nikki, I am a 28-year-old
          > mama of one living in the Boise, Idaho area.
          >
          > As a person of very mixed ancestry which mostly boils down to Celtic,
          > Germanic and Polynesian, and with a husband of Germanic/Nordic
          > ancestry, I have decided that in order to cover the most ancestral
          > bases our family should honour the PIE gods, or maybe the
          > Proto-Germanic gods.
          >

          Being of mixed heritage myself....I came to the same basic conclusion
          some time ago.

          I have been researching various aspects of these religious systems and
          > their reconstruction for a little while now, and have actually come to
          > a fairly satisfactory corellation between the PIE and early Germanic
          > pantheons. One area that i am still in doubt about is the Germanic
          > equivalent of Akwom Nepot. I understand that the Germanic pantheon is
          > a synthesis of PIE and native elements, however it seems there are
          > certainly enough echoes of Akwom Nepot to demonstrate some kind of
          > continuity. Obviously there is the Well, the Tree, the Mead of
          > Inspiration etc. But it seems that in the Germanic myths, at least
          > their later developments, have divided the function/s of Akwom Nepot
          > between 2 separate deities: Mimir, who guards the Well of Memory and
          > allows Woden to drink of it for the price of his eye, and Woden
          > himself, who stole the Mead of Inspiration from the etins, keeps it in
          > Asgard and gifts it to those he deems worthy. I think it is also
          > interesting that Mimir is described as Woden's uncle, therefore Woden
          > is the "nephew of the waters", in a manner of speaking.
          > It seems to me that one of these roles must be a later development
          > than the other; that perhaps Mimir, the Keeper of the Well, originally
          > represented a much more important and powerful figure in Germanic
          > mythology and was a god to be worshipped in his own right. Or, does
          > Woden's drinking from the Well, which some believe to be a rite he
          > performs on a daily basis like Mimir must, imply his usurpation of
          > Mimir's function?
          > Does anyone have any personal intuitions or knowledge to share on this
          > subject? Is there any scholarly consensus on the identity of Akwom
          > Nepot as manifested in the Germanic myths? Or am i way out in left
          > field chasing butterflies?
          >

          The concept of the well is a very strong connection IMO...I am far from an
          expert at anything, let alone Germanic religion so I am sure one of our
          resident experts should be speaking up fairly soon:)

          Ken


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • A.
          ... As a person deeply interested in Germano-Norse correlates, I would love to read your views - perhaps we could start another thread devoted to the rest of
          Message 4 of 16 , Jul 8, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In PIEreligion@yahoogroups.com, "Miryai" <mari_ishtar@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > I have been researching various aspects of these religious systems
            > and their reconstruction for a little while now, and have actually
            > come to
            > a fairly satisfactory corellation between the PIE and early Germanic
            > pantheons.

            As a person deeply interested in Germano-Norse correlates, I would
            love to read your views - perhaps we could start another thread
            devoted to the rest of the pantheon?


            > One area that i am still in doubt about is the Germanic
            > equivalent of Akwom Nepot.

            I have to thank you for bringing this topic to light, it is something
            I have never even contemplated before. As a result I needed to go
            back and review a good deal of material before commenting.
            Most of these thoughts come after reviewing Jaan Puhvel's
            book "Comparative Mythology", chapter 16, along with a few other
            works.
            The focus below is on Mimir - where I think you have really hit the
            nail on the head!

            Apam Napat is present in both Avestan and Vedic mythology as "The
            offspring of the waters" though not necessarily as a direct child but
            the term may also indiciate a grandchild or cousin.

            The deity is associated with fire in the water and in the Avesta Apam
            Napat holds the xvarenah (glory) in lake Vourukasa.


            Personally I find some of the most interesting details in the Celtic
            myths where the correlate of Nechtan has a secret well which only he
            and his three cupbearers can approach.
            Puhvel states that those who trangress the area suffer from bursting
            of the eyes (Odin?) -- however I have been unable to find a source
            for this remark about bursting eyes - Perhaps one of our more Celtic
            members will be able to add something to this??

            The well of Nechtan is sometimes known as Connla's well - where nine
            hazel trees drop the nuts of wisdom and inspiration into the well
            (where salmon sometimes eat them). There is also a similar Irish well
            of Segais, which may or may not be the same well as that of Connla.
            In the Dindshenchas, the father of Nechtan is supposedly one Labraid
            Loingsech.
            James Mackillop's "Dictionary of Celtic Mythology" states that
            Nechtan *may* be a pseudonym for Nuada Airgetlam - which would
            strangely make Nechtan the equivalent of Tyr - and without further
            support I am inclined to dismiss this theory.


            Roman myth reveals the correlate of Neptune.
            Additionally, Roman myth also has a tale which seems similar to that
            of Nechtan and the waters that rise to drown his wife Boand/Boann
            (see Puhvel for details).


            Returning again to Vedic myth we find RV hymn 2.35 dedicated to Apam
            Napat and mentioning "three women" who tend him and give him food.
            This seems very similar to Nechtan's 3 cupbearers and the 3 Norns who
            tend Yggdrasil.


            The various wells around Yggdrasil (Mimir's of wisdom & the Norns of
            Wyrd) match Connla's well and the trees of wisdom surrounding it.

            Now Mimir is known to be a being of immense wisdom (as would fit he
            who guards the equivalent of Connla's well) and Mimir guards his own
            well of wisdom which exists under one of the roots of Yggdrasil
            (which is tended by the three Norns).

            Interestingly, Mimameidr (Mimir's tree) is also given as another name
            for Yggdrasil. It may be that Mimir was likewise a guardian of the
            tree and that his well was the same as that of the Norns.


            Perhaps being the "child of the waters" means Apam Napat was created
            by the primordial Norse waters - those created by the mixing of fire
            and ice during Norse creation. This would make him either reated to
            or a psuedonym for Ymir himself.
            Perhaps Mimir is the tender of those waters: the tender of the well
            of wisdom and Wyrd by Yggdrasil, the tender of Connla's well of
            wisdom and inspiration, and the tender of the water which holds the
            Avestan xvarenah.

            Anyway, to sum things up I believe you correctly identified Mimir as
            the correlate to Nechtan and Apam Napat... and that this association
            thus ties Nechtan's 3 cupbearers; and Pam Napat's 3 women; with the 3
            Norns.

            Sincerely and in admiration,
            Aydan
          • Paxson Lowenhart
            Hey Chris, I am of part Slavic (Polish) and part Tuetonic heritage. Do you have any good links for the Slavic history and mythology? LORD RUNESTER gotart04
            Message 5 of 16 , Jul 9, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              Hey Chris,
              I am of part Slavic (Polish) and part Tuetonic heritage. Do you have any good links for the Slavic history and mythology?
              LORD RUNESTER

              gotart04 <gotart04@...> wrote:
              welcome Nikki. I am not an expert in the Germanic areas. I am more focused on Slavic stuff. But there are people here who are very knowledgeable.
              You came to the right place!
              Chris gotart04

              Miryai <mari_ishtar@...> wrote:
              Hello, I am a new member here. My name is Nikki, I am a 28-year-old
              mama of one living in the Boise, Idaho area.

              As a person of very mixed ancestry which mostly boils down to Celtic,
              Germanic and Polynesian, and with a husband of Germanic/Nordic
              ancestry, I have decided that in order to cover the most ancestral
              bases our family should honour the PIE gods, or maybe the
              Proto-Germanic gods.

              I have been researching various aspects of these religious systems and
              their reconstruction for a little while now, and have actually come to
              a fairly satisfactory corellation between the PIE and early Germanic
              pantheons. One area that i am still in doubt about is the Germanic
              equivalent of Akwom Nepot. I understand that the Germanic pantheon is
              a synthesis of PIE and native elements, however it seems there are
              certainly enough echoes of Akwom Nepot to demonstrate some kind of
              continuity. Obviously there is the Well, the Tree, the Mead of
              Inspiration etc. But it seems that in the Germanic myths, at least
              their later developments, have divided the function/s of Akwom Nepot
              between 2 separate deities: Mimir, who guards the Well of Memory and
              allows Woden to drink of it for the price of his eye, and Woden
              himself, who stole the Mead of Inspiration from the etins, keeps it in
              Asgard and gifts it to those he deems worthy. I think it is also
              interesting that Mimir is described as Woden's uncle, therefore Woden
              is the "nephew of the waters", in a manner of speaking.
              It seems to me that one of these roles must be a later development
              than the other; that perhaps Mimir, the Keeper of the Well, originally
              represented a much more important and powerful figure in Germanic
              mythology and was a god to be worshipped in his own right. Or, does
              Woden's drinking from the Well, which some believe to be a rite he
              performs on a daily basis like Mimir must, imply his usurpation of
              Mimir's function?
              Does anyone have any personal intuitions or knowledge to share on this
              subject? Is there any scholarly consensus on the identity of Akwom
              Nepot as manifested in the Germanic myths? Or am i way out in left
              field chasing butterflies?

              Thanks,
              Nikki


              ---------------------------------
              Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






              By the blessings of our Lords and Ladies,
              Paxson

              ---------------------------------
              How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • gotart04
              Paxson, The easiest thing I can do is to direct you to check the list of recommended reading that I have compiled for the Slavic Reconstructionist yahoo
              Message 6 of 16 , Jul 9, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                Paxson,
                The easiest thing I can do is to direct you to check the list of recommended reading that I have compiled for the Slavic Reconstructionist yahoo group... several of the fine folks on here also belong to that group.
                I also have a wide range of links for Slavic heathenry. dieties, etc..... please forgive me but I will try to post those through tomorrow, as I am really beat form claening and stema claening my van today and a lot fo other such tasks.....
                I did not want your query to go unanaswered though since youa re addressing me directly.
                Thanks for understanding,
                Chris gotart04


                Paxson Lowenhart <lordrunester@...> wrote:
                Hey Chris,
                I am of part Slavic (Polish) and part Tuetonic heritage. Do you have any good links for the Slavic history and mythology?
                LORD RUNESTER

                gotart04 <gotart04@...> wrote:
                welcome Nikki. I am not an expert in the Germanic areas. I am more focused on Slavic stuff. But there are people here who are very knowledgeable.
                You came to the right place!
                Chris gotart04

                Miryai <mari_ishtar@...> wrote:
                Hello, I am a new member here. My name is Nikki, I am a 28-year-old
                mama of one living in the Boise, Idaho area.

                As a person of very mixed ancestry which mostly boils down to Celtic,
                Germanic and Polynesian, and with a husband of Germanic/Nordic
                ancestry, I have decided that in order to cover the most ancestral
                bases our family should honour the PIE gods, or maybe the
                Proto-Germanic gods.

                I have been researching various aspects of these religious systems and
                their reconstruction for a little while now, and have actually come to
                a fairly satisfactory corellation between the PIE and early Germanic
                pantheons. One area that i am still in doubt about is the Germanic
                equivalent of Akwom Nepot. I understand that the Germanic pantheon is
                a synthesis of PIE and native elements, however it seems there are
                certainly enough echoes of Akwom Nepot to demonstrate some kind of
                continuity. Obviously there is the Well, the Tree, the Mead of
                Inspiration etc. But it seems that in the Germanic myths, at least
                their later developments, have divided the function/s of Akwom Nepot
                between 2 separate deities: Mimir, who guards the Well of Memory and
                allows Woden to drink of it for the price of his eye, and Woden
                himself, who stole the Mead of Inspiration from the etins, keeps it in
                Asgard and gifts it to those he deems worthy. I think it is also
                interesting that Mimir is described as Woden's uncle, therefore Woden
                is the "nephew of the waters", in a manner of speaking.
                It seems to me that one of these roles must be a later development
                than the other; that perhaps Mimir, the Keeper of the Well, originally
                represented a much more important and powerful figure in Germanic
                mythology and was a god to be worshipped in his own right. Or, does
                Woden's drinking from the Well, which some believe to be a rite he
                performs on a daily basis like Mimir must, imply his usurpation of
                Mimir's function?
                Does anyone have any personal intuitions or knowledge to share on this
                subject? Is there any scholarly consensus on the identity of Akwom
                Nepot as manifested in the Germanic myths? Or am i way out in left
                field chasing butterflies?

                Thanks,
                Nikki

                ---------------------------------
                Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free.

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                By the blessings of our Lords and Ladies,
                Paxson

                ---------------------------------
                How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates.

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                ---------------------------------
                Do you Yahoo!?
                Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Brian K Walsh
                Hi Aydan, RE: Personally I find some of the most interesting details in the Celtic myths where the correlate of Nechtan has a secret well which only he and
                Message 7 of 16 , Jul 10, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi Aydan,

                  RE:
                  "Personally I find some of the most interesting details in the Celtic
                  myths where the correlate of Nechtan has a secret well which only he
                  and his three cupbearers can approach.
                  Puhvel states that those who trangress the area suffer from bursting
                  of the eyes (Odin?) -- however I have been unable to find a source
                  for this remark about bursting eyes - Perhaps one of our more Celtic
                  members will be able to add something to this??"

                  It's in both the Dindsenechas for Boann - she loose an eye, a hand
                  and a leg for approaching Nechtan's well (and circling it tuathal).

                  RE:
                  "James Mackillop's "Dictionary of Celtic Mythology" states that
                  Nechtan *may* be a pseudonym for Nuada Airgetlam - which would
                  strangely make Nechtan the equivalent of Tyr - and without further
                  support I am inclined to dismiss this theory."

                  While I don't suport the extended assumption that Nechtan is Tyr, the
                  initial premise that Nechtan *may* be a pseudonym for Nuada Airgetlam
                  does hold some promise, supported by the name Nuada Necht and by
                  Nodens being equated with Neptune, as well as Silvanus and Mars.

                  RE:
                  "Anyway, to sum things up I believe you correctly identified Mimir as
                  the correlate to Nechtan and Apam Napat... and that this association
                  thus ties Nechtan's 3 cupbearers; and Pam Napat's 3 women; with the 3
                  Norns."

                  Mimir's role might be similar to Nechtan and Apam Napat's, though why
                  his name is so different does bring up some need for further
                  examination.

                  Regardless, you do know that Nechtan's cupbearers are *male*, right?
                  I would not connect them with the norns or Apam Napat's women, nor
                  would I compare these two groups of women to each other.

                  All the best,
                  Brian
                • C. L. Vermeers
                  ... when Bóann approaches the Well, she walks around it three times anticlockwise. upon this, the Well bursts, tearing away Bóann s left eye, arm, and leg,
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jul 10, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --- In PIEreligion@yahoogroups.com, "A." <xthanex@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Personally I find some of the most interesting details in the Celtic
                    > myths where the correlate of Nechtan has a secret well which only he
                    > and his three cupbearers can approach.
                    > Puhvel states that those who trangress the area suffer from bursting
                    > of the eyes (Odin?) -- however I have been unable to find a source
                    > for this remark about bursting eyes - Perhaps one of our more Celtic
                    > members will be able to add something to this??

                    when Bóann approaches the Well, she walks around it three times
                    anticlockwise. upon this, the Well bursts, tearing away Bóann's left
                    eye, arm, and leg, creating the river Boyne (named for Bóann), and
                    driving her into the sea.

                    c. vermeers
                  • gotart04
                    http://www.mythinglinks.org/euro~east~panSlavic.html http://www.islandnet.com/~nyland/slavic.htm http://members.aol.com/hpsofsnert/index.html
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jul 10, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      http://www.mythinglinks.org/euro~east~panSlavic.html
                      http://www.islandnet.com/~nyland/slavic.htm
                      http://members.aol.com/hpsofsnert/index.html
                      http://www.irminsul.org/arc/010sz.html
                      http://www.winterscapes.com/slavic.htm
                      http://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com/pages/P/E/Perun.htm
                      http://www.ibiblio.org/sergei/Dazhdbog.html
                      http://www.gaiacommunity.org/slavic1.htm
                      http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/srp/index.htm
                      http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/SlavPan.html#Porevit

                      Thes elinks should get you started...mind you... check your references... these ar eonly a starting point- as stated earlier, I recommend you start readin the books in teh database I complield for Slavic REcon .
                      At any rate, hope this helps.
                      Chris gotart04






                      Paxson Lowenhart <lordrunester@...> wrote:
                      Hey Chris,
                      I am of part Slavic (Polish) and part Tuetonic heritage. Do you have any good links for the Slavic history and mythology?
                      LORD RUNESTER

                      gotart04 <gotart04@...> wrote:
                      welcome Nikki. I am not an expert in the Germanic areas. I am more focused on Slavic stuff. But there are people here who are very knowledgeable.
                      You came to the right place!
                      Chris gotart04

                      Miryai <mari_ishtar@...> wrote:
                      Hello, I am a new member here. My name is Nikki, I am a 28-year-old
                      mama of one living in the Boise, Idaho area.

                      As a person of very mixed ancestry which mostly boils down to Celtic,
                      Germanic and Polynesian, and with a husband of Germanic/Nordic
                      ancestry, I have decided that in order to cover the most ancestral
                      bases our family should honour the PIE gods, or maybe the
                      Proto-Germanic gods.

                      I have been researching various aspects of these religious systems and
                      their reconstruction for a little while now, and have actually come to
                      a fairly satisfactory corellation between the PIE and early Germanic
                      pantheons. One area that i am still in doubt about is the Germanic
                      equivalent of Akwom Nepot. I understand that the Germanic pantheon is
                      a synthesis of PIE and native elements, however it seems there are
                      certainly enough echoes of Akwom Nepot to demonstrate some kind of
                      continuity. Obviously there is the Well, the Tree, the Mead of
                      Inspiration etc. But it seems that in the Germanic myths, at least
                      their later developments, have divided the function/s of Akwom Nepot
                      between 2 separate deities: Mimir, who guards the Well of Memory and
                      allows Woden to drink of it for the price of his eye, and Woden
                      himself, who stole the Mead of Inspiration from the etins, keeps it in
                      Asgard and gifts it to those he deems worthy. I think it is also
                      interesting that Mimir is described as Woden's uncle, therefore Woden
                      is the "nephew of the waters", in a manner of speaking.
                      It seems to me that one of these roles must be a later development
                      than the other; that perhaps Mimir, the Keeper of the Well, originally
                      represented a much more important and powerful figure in Germanic
                      mythology and was a god to be worshipped in his own right. Or, does
                      Woden's drinking from the Well, which some believe to be a rite he
                      performs on a daily basis like Mimir must, imply his usurpation of
                      Mimir's function?
                      Does anyone have any personal intuitions or knowledge to share on this
                      subject? Is there any scholarly consensus on the identity of Akwom
                      Nepot as manifested in the Germanic myths? Or am i way out in left
                      field chasing butterflies?

                      Thanks,
                      Nikki

                      ---------------------------------
                      Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free.

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                      By the blessings of our Lords and Ladies,
                      Paxson

                      ---------------------------------
                      How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates.

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                      ---------------------------------
                      Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • A.
                      My thanks to Brian and C. Vermeers for clarifying the mutilation of Boann! ... the ... Airgetlam ... Egads, I had totally forgotten about Nodens connection to
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jul 11, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        My thanks to Brian and C. Vermeers for clarifying the mutilation of
                        Boann!

                        --- In PIEreligion@yahoogroups.com, "Brian K Walsh" <brianwalsh@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > RE:
                        > "James Mackillop's "Dictionary of Celtic Mythology" states that
                        > Nechtan *may* be a pseudonym for Nuada Airgetlam - which would
                        > strangely make Nechtan the equivalent of Tyr - and without further
                        > support I am inclined to dismiss this theory."
                        >
                        > While I don't suport the extended assumption that Nechtan is Tyr,
                        the
                        > initial premise that Nechtan *may* be a pseudonym for Nuada
                        Airgetlam
                        > does hold some promise, supported by the name Nuada Necht and by
                        > Nodens being equated with Neptune, as well as Silvanus and Mars.
                        >

                        Egads, I had totally forgotten about Nodens connection to Neptune!
                        I suppose it shows how murky things can be in PIE mythology.
                        Normally we think Tyr = Tiwaz == Zeus/Dyaus...... And Nuada = Tyr.
                        Yet here things get far more confused with the Nuada = Neptune issue.


                        > Regardless, you do know that Nechtan's cupbearers are *male*, right?
                        > I would not connect them with the norns or Apam Napat's women, nor
                        > would I compare these two groups of women to each other.

                        Again I was not aware they were male, my Celtic resources are
                        somewhat limited. However I am not sure that is a deal breaker. In
                        the Zoroastrian correlate, the individual who suffers for
                        transgressing the well/lake is male. Likewise Odin might be viewed as
                        transgressing the well and thus losing his eye - and Odin is again
                        male.
                        Perhaps the Celtic version simply switched the gender of the 3
                        assistants and the one who transgresses?

                        Regardless, you have pointed out that things aren't quite the slam
                        dunk I had assumed they were.

                        ----
                        It seems Neptune was known as Nethuns in the (non-IE) Etruscan
                        language, but that is believed to have been a borrowing from the
                        Latin.


                        Some potential leads taken from the Theoi.com website:

                        "There is an old legend that a wave of sea-water rises up in the
                        sanctuary [of Poseidon in Mantineia, Arkadia]. A like story is told
                        by the Athenians about the wave on the Akropolis ... But the sea at
                        Phaleron is about twenty stades distant from Athens." - Pausanias,
                        Guide to Greece 8.10.2


                        "Here [in the city of Argos] is a sanctuary of Poseidon, surnamed
                        Prosklystios (Flooder), for they say that Poseidon inundated the
                        greater part of the country because Inakhos and his assessors decided
                        that the land belonged to Hera and not to him. Now it was Hera who
                        induced Poseidon to send the sea back, but the Argives made a
                        sanctuary to Poseidon Prosklystios at the spot where the tide
                        ebbed." - Pausanias, Guide to Greece 2.22.4


                        "After crossing into Mantinean country [in Arkadia] over Mount
                        Artemisios you will come to a plain called the Untilled Plain [where
                        the Arkadians claimed Poseidon was born], whose name well describes
                        it, for the rain-water coming down into it from the mountains
                        prevents the plain from being tilled; nothing indeed could prevent it
                        from being a lake, were it not that the water disappears into a chasm
                        in the earth. After disappearing here it rises again at Dine
                        (Whirlpool) [in Argolis]. Dine is a stream of fresh water rising out
                        of the sea by what is called Genethlion in Argolis. In olden times
                        the Argives cast horses adorned with bridles down into Dine as an
                        offering to Poseidon." - Pausanias, Guide to Greece 8.7.2

                        I could not find any info on 3 assistants, although I suppose there
                        is some possibility of symbolism in the 3 tines of His trident.
                        Of course I could also be completely off base on this one =lol=

                        Sincerely,
                        Aydan
                      • CeiSerith@aol.com
                        In a message dated 7/10/2006 11:04:57 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, brianwalsh@newtara.org writes: Regardless, you do know that Nechtan s cupbearers are *male*,
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jul 11, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          In a message dated 7/10/2006 11:04:57 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                          brianwalsh@... writes:

                          Regardless, you do know that Nechtan's cupbearers are *male*, right?



                          Thanks for this. It sent me scurrying to my texts, and by God, you're
                          right. This may involve a fair amount of rewriting.

                          Ceisiwr Serith


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Paxson Lowenhart
                          Chris, Thanks for the help. When you post tomorrow could you include a link? Much appreciated! PAXSON gotart04 wrote: Paxson, The easiest
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jul 13, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Chris,
                            Thanks for the help. When you post tomorrow could you include a link? Much appreciated!
                            PAXSON

                            gotart04 <gotart04@...> wrote:
                            Paxson,
                            The easiest thing I can do is to direct you to check the list of recommended reading that I have compiled for the Slavic Reconstructionist yahoo group... several of the fine folks on here also belong to that group.
                            I also have a wide range of links for Slavic heathenry. dieties, etc..... please forgive me but I will try to post those through tomorrow, as I am really beat form claening and stema claening my van today and a lot fo other such tasks.....
                            I did not want your query to go unanaswered though since youa re addressing me directly.
                            Thanks for understanding,
                            Chris gotart04


                            New Message Search
                            Find the message you want faster. Visit your group to try out the improved message search.




                            Share feedback on the new changes to Groups


                            Recent Activity

                            1
                            New Members

                            Visit Your Group
                            SPONSORED LINKS

                            Corporate culture
                            Business culture of china
                            Culture
                            Linguistics
                            Indian mythology
                            Norse mythology


                            .





                            By the blessings of our Lords and Ladies,
                            Paxson

                            ---------------------------------
                            Do you Yahoo!?
                            Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Ken Pfrenger
                            ... Hi Paxson, The link for the Slavic recon list is: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SlavicReconstructionist hope to see youthere. Ken [Non-text portions of
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jul 13, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              On 7/13/06, Paxson Lowenhart <lordrunester@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Chris,
                              > Thanks for the help. When you post tomorrow could you include a link? Much
                              > appreciated!
                              > PAXSON
                              >


                              Hi Paxson,

                              The link for the Slavic recon list is:
                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SlavicReconstructionist

                              hope to see youthere.
                              Ken


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Brian K Walsh
                              Hi Cei, RE my: Regardless, you do know that Nechtan s cupbearers are *male*, right? You say: Thanks for this. It sent me scurrying to my texts, and by
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jul 13, 2006
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Hi Cei,

                                RE my:
                                "Regardless, you do know that Nechtan's cupbearers are *male*, right?"
                                You say:
                                "Thanks for this. It sent me scurrying to my texts, and by God,
                                you're right. This may involve a fair amount of rewriting."

                                The role of cup-bearer is a subject on which I've been doing a fair
                                amount of (rather disorganized) research. Though an archetypally
                                feminine role, there are a number of important male cupbearers in myth
                                who I believe are related to the (mostly male) filidh/vates profession
                                as representations of Sovereignty (sleeping in the kings bed etc).
                                Clearly, embodying or speaking for the goddess was not solely, or
                                maybe even primarily, in the hands of women in Iron age Celtic
                                culture.

                                All the best,
                                Brian
                              • Paxson Lowenhart
                                Ken, Thanks tons! I really appreciate this. I have applied for membership and am awaitng approval. They only allow 200 characters in the description box so I
                                Message 15 of 16 , Jul 14, 2006
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Ken,
                                  Thanks tons! I really appreciate this.
                                  I have applied for membership and am awaitng approval. They only allow 200 characters in the description box so I had to go back and delete alot of what I had written, including your name. But I did mention that you were a member of this group.
                                  My mother's mother's side of the family are Polish. Their last name is Rudolph. Yet nobody ever believes me when I tell them that Rudolph the Red-Nose Reindeer is Polish! Go figure!
                                  PAXSON

                                  Ken Pfrenger <kenpfrenger@...> wrote:
                                  On 7/13/06, Paxson Lowenhart <lordrunester@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Chris,
                                  > Thanks for the help. When you post tomorrow could you include a link? Much
                                  > appreciated!
                                  > PAXSON
                                  >

                                  Hi Paxson,

                                  The link for the Slavic recon list is:
                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SlavicReconstructionist

                                  hope to see youthere.
                                  Ken

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                                  By the blessings of our Lords and Ladies,
                                  Paxson

                                  ---------------------------------
                                  See the all-new, redesigned Yahoo.com. Check it out.

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Ken Pfrenger
                                  ... No worries...you would have gotten in anyhow....I am a mod there as well;) Glad to be able to help. My mother s mother s side of the family are Polish.
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Jul 16, 2006
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    On 7/14/06, Paxson Lowenhart <lordrunester@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Ken,
                                    > Thanks tons! I really appreciate this.
                                    > I have applied for membership and am awaitng approval. They only allow 200
                                    > characters in the description box so I had to go back and delete alot of
                                    > what I had written, including your name. But I did mention that you were a
                                    > member of this group.
                                    >

                                    No worries...you would have gotten in anyhow....I am a mod there as
                                    well;) Glad to be able to help.

                                    My mother's mother's side of the family are Polish. Their last name is
                                    > Rudolph. Yet nobody ever believes me when I tell them that Rudolph the
                                    > Red-Nose Reindeer is Polish! Go figure!
                                    > PAXSON
                                    >


                                    And speaking of RUdolhp....would anyone like to take poke at at IE
                                    origin for Santa? I have heard him as coming from both odin and
                                    Veles....but just normal internet stuff, nothing too scholarly.

                                    ken

                                    .
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.