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RE: [PCGenListFileHelp] Re: Problem with Cost after equip mods

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  • Neil Phillips
    Existing ammo 10mm Pistol (50 rounds) TYPE:Ammunition.Standard.Metal.Bullet.10mm.H_M_Bul_10mm.QUANT_50 COST:30 WT:.1 BASEQTY:50 MODS:YES SOURCEPAGE:Traveller s
    Message 1 of 57 , Jun 1, 2005
      Existing ammo



      10mm Pistol (50 rounds)

      TYPE:Ammunition.Standard.Metal.Bullet.10mm.H_M_Bul_10mm.QUANT_50

      COST:30

      WT:.1

      BASEQTY:50

      MODS:YES

      SOURCEPAGE:Traveller's Aid 1 - Personal Weapons



      10mm Pistol (1000 rounds)

      TYPE:Ammunition.Standard.Metal.Bullet.10mm.H_M_Bul_10mm.QUANT_1000

      COST:450

      WT:.1

      BASEQTY:1000

      MODS:YES

      SOURCEPAGE:Traveller's Aid 1 - Personal Weapons



      10mm Rifle Box (50 rounds)

      TYPE:Ammunition.Standard.Metal.Bullet.10mm.R_M_Bul_10mm.QUANT_50

      COST:100

      WT:.1

      BASEQTY:50

      MODS:YES

      SOURCEPAGE:Traveller's Aid 1 - Personal Weapons



      There appears to be no data for a 1000's box of rifle ammo.



      Body Pistol 10mm (50 rounds)

      TYPE:Ammunition.Standard.Metal.Bullet.10mm.H_N_Bul_10mm.QUANT_50

      COST:250

      WT:.1

      BASEQTY:50

      MODS:YES

      SOURCEPAGE:Traveller's Aid 1 - Personal Weapons



      Body Pistol 10mm (1000 rounds)

      TYPE:Ammunition.Standard.Metal.Bullet.10mm.H_N_Bul_10mm.QUANT_1000

      COST:3500

      WT:.1

      BASEQTY:1000

      MODS:YES

      SOURCEPAGE:Traveller's Aid 1 - Personal Weapons



      As per your suggestion below I have made a single bullet version of the 50's

      I will have to make a 1 bullet version of the mod Flechette also, see lower.



      10mm Pistol (1 round)

      TYPE:Ammunition.Standard.Metal.Bullet.10mm.H_M_Bul_10mm.QUANT_1

      COST:30

      WT:.1

      BASEQTY:1

      MODS:YES

      SOURCEPAGE:Traveller's Aid 1 - Personal Weapons



      10mm Rifle Box (1 round)

      TYPE:Ammunition.Standard.Metal.Bullet.10mm.R_M_Bul_10mm.QUANT_1

      COST:100

      WT:.1

      BASEQTY:1

      MODS:YES

      SOURCEPAGE:Traveller's Aid 1 - Personal Weapons



      Body Pistol 10mm (1 round)

      TYPE:Ammunition.Standard.Metal.Bullet.10mm.H_N_Bul_10mm.QUANT_1

      COST:250

      WT:.1

      BASEQTY:1

      MODS:YES

      SOURCEPAGE:Traveller's Aid 1 - Personal Weapons



      The mod file items

      Flechette

      OUTPUTNAME:[NAME] Flechette

      KEY:FLECHETTE_1

      TYPE:Ammunition

      PRETYPE:1,QUANT_1

      COST:BASECOST

      VISIBLE:QUALIFY

      SOURCEPAGE:Chap. 4, Equipment, General Equipment

      PRETYPE:1,Bullet

      !PRETYPE:1,Snub

      BONUS:COMBAT|TOHIT|2

      SPROP: +2 To Hit, Reduces damage dice to d4, Useless against armor



      Flechette

      OUTPUTNAME:[NAME] Flechette

      KEY:FLECHETTE_50

      TYPE:Ammunition

      PRETYPE:1,QUANT_50

      COST:BASECOST

      VISIBLE:QUALIFY

      SOURCEPAGE:Chap. 4, Equipment, General Equipment

      PRETYPE:1,Bullet

      !PRETYPE:1,Snub

      BONUS:COMBAT|TOHIT|2

      SPROP: +2 To Hit, Reduces damage dice to d4, Useless against armor




      Flechette

      OUTPUTNAME:[NAME] Flechette

      KEY:FLECHETTE_1000

      TYPE:Ammunition

      PRETYPE:1,QUANT_1000

      COST:BASECOST

      VISIBLE:QUALIFY

      SOURCEPAGE:Chap. 4, Equipment, General Equipment

      PRETYPE:1,Bullet

      !PRETYPE:1,Snub

      BONUS:COMBAT|TOHIT|2

      SPROP: +2 To Hit, Reduces damage dice to d4, Useless against armor



      So to the results.

      As you can see I have used copy for the item picked, and now also the actual
      cost info from the create item window.

      These results are slightly different.

      I believe this is due to human error on my behalf.

      I understand that the cost formula used previously was infact

      COST:((BASECOST/50)*2)-1

      I can confirm that the data below is for

      COST:BASECOST

      Apologies if this causes confusion.

      I figure since the actual cost did not follow logically any set cost
      formula, the formula that was used is really irrelevant, as we clearly see
      the results deviate from expected.



      Just to be clear, once more I can confirm the data below is for

      COST:BASECOST






      10mm Pistol (1 round)

      30

      , Traveller's Aid 1 - Personal Weapons

      Base Item: 10mm Pistol (1 round)

      New Item: 10mm Pistol (1 round/Flechette)

      Cost: 60.0, Weight: 0.05 kg

      SPROP: +2 To Hit, Reduces damage dice to d4, Useless against armor



      Baseqty 1, final cost 60 as desired, wt decreased from 0.1 to 0.05






      10mm Pistol (1000 rounds)

      450

      , Traveller's Aid 1 - Personal Weapons

      Base Item: 10mm Pistol (1000 rounds)

      New Item: 10mm Pistol (1000 rounds/Flechette)

      Cost: 451000.0, Weight: 0.05 kg

      SPROP: +2 To Hit, Reduces damage dice to d4, Useless against armor



      Baseqty 1000, final cost not as desired (900), wt decreased from 0.1 to 0.05






      10mm Pistol (50 rounds)

      30

      , Traveller's Aid 1 - Personal Weapons

      Base Item: 10mm Pistol (50 rounds)

      New Item: 10mm Pistol (50 rounds/Flechette)

      Cost: 1550.0, Weight: 0.05 kg

      SPROP: +2 To Hit, Reduces damage dice to d4, Useless against armor



      Baseqty 50, final cost not as desired (60), wt decreased from 0.1 to 0.05






      10mm Rifle Box (1 round)

      100

      , Traveller's Aid 1 - Personal Weapons

      Base Item: 10mm Rifle Box (1 round)

      New Item: 10mm Rifle Box (1 round/Flechette)

      Cost: 200.0, Weight: 0.05 kg

      SPROP: +2 To Hit, Reduces damage dice to d4, Useless against armor



      Baseqty 1, final cost 200 as desired, wt decreased from 0.1 to 0.05






      10mm Rifle Box (50 rounds)

      100

      , Traveller's Aid 1 - Personal Weapons

      Base Item: 10mm Rifle Box (50 rounds)

      New Item: 10mm Rifle Box (50 rounds/Flechette)

      Cost: 5100.0, Weight: 0.05 kg

      SPROP: +2 To Hit, Reduces damage dice to d4, Useless against armor



      Baseqty 50, final cost not as desired (200), wt decreased from 0.1 to 0.05






      Body Pistol 10mm (1 round)

      250

      , Traveller's Aid 1 - Personal Weapons

      Base Item: Body Pistol 10mm (1 round)

      New Item: Body Pistol 10mm (1 round/Flechette)

      Cost: 500.0, Weight: 0.05 kg

      SPROP: +2 To Hit, Reduces damage dice to d4, Useless against armor



      Baseqty 1, final cost 500 as desired, wt decreased from 0.1 to 0.05






      Body Pistol 10mm (1000 rounds)

      3500

      , Traveller's Aid 1 - Personal Weapons

      Base Item: Body Pistol 10mm (1000 rounds)

      New Item: Body Pistol 10mm (1000 rounds/Flechette)

      Cost: 3504000.0, Weight: 0.05 kg

      SPROP: +2 To Hit, Reduces damage dice to d4, Useless against armor



      Baseqty 1000, final cost not as desired (7000), wt decreased from 0.1 to
      0.05








      Body Pistol 10mm (50 rounds)

      250

      , Traveller's Aid 1 - Personal Weapons

      Base Item: Body Pistol 10mm (50 rounds)

      New Item: Body Pistol 10mm (50 rounds/Flechette)

      Cost: 12750.0, Weight: 0.05 kg

      SPROP: +2 To Hit, Reduces damage dice to d4, Useless against armor



      Baseqty 50, final cost not as desired (500), wt decreased from 0.1 to 0.05







      Conclusions

      1. Odd that the weight of the item changes, even though medium items are the
      default creation size.



      2. The COST:((BASECOST/50)*2)-1 formula masked the true behaviour of the
      final cost in relation to the baseqty.



      3. Even with the COST:BASECOST formula only the single item bundles got any
      correct final costs.



      4. All final costs for single item bundles that use the formula
      COST:BASECOST are as desired.



      In summary

      There appears, as you rightly suspected, to be an issue with the final cost
      for bundles of more than one item.

      All things now point to the final calculation, specifically the effect of
      baseqty.



      Hope this provides a sufficiently long and thin stick to help with the ant
      hunting.

      Neil





      _____

      From: PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Reed Thornton
      Sent: 01 June 2005 05:11
      To: PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [PCGenListFileHelp] Re: Problem with Cost after equip mods



      On 5/31/05, Neil Phillips <neil.phillips5@...> wrote:
      > Sorry Reed,
      >
      > I have been frustrated with this problem for longer than I like, apologies
      > for abruptness.
      >

      I've been where you're sitting. No worries.

      Regarding the JEP update, that's something that I would/will ask the
      code monkeys...

      > FYI I am nearly at the stage of picking up the java source code and taking
      a
      > look myself at the missing link as it were, the final calculation.
      >
      > I have written java code but it has been a few years.
      >
      > I hate to think how long it would take me to even locate the right program
      > area let alone work my way through it.

      I've spent several hours looking for some of the *simpler* features
      implementation. It's a massive mess of partial inheritance/use of
      parent classes.

      > Just a thought, on the line of rounding errors, I did notice something odd
      > in the debug console once in relation to this matter.
      >
      > It was during a test on some different COST: formula.
      >
      > The expected answer was something like 0.02, but what I saw was more like
      > 0.0199999996.
      >
      > At the time I put it down to my misunderstanding of the actual parsing of
      my
      > formula.
      >
      > Now I wonder what java class type was being used to hold the answer, do we
      > really need to think about more engineering like accuracy?
      >
      > I guess that would give a performance hit, i.e. using double rather than
      it
      > as it were. (lol double that harks back to fortran, I forget the java
      > equivalent at the moment).

      Hmm... maybe something that we could/should look at is either having
      any cost math (especially division) done in the smallest monetary
      denomination, or having the eqmod pricing based on the bundle size (as
      opposed to figuring out the unit cost and then multiplying up to the
      bundle quantity). The later would probably require a new tag to set a
      pre-mod price for those item like arrows that have a *different*
      pricing for modification than is logical.

      Since you are already in the trenches on this problem and know how
      it's *supposed* to work, would you run a test for me? I'm curious what
      the effect would be using COST:BASECOST in the eqmod when there
      *isn't* a BASEQTY tag in the ammo item listing (i.e. treat the
      box/case as the unit, rather than the individual round.) Looking at
      your message from the 29th at 6pm, (the one where you were listing
      things for the BASECOST*(10-1)/#QTY#) it appears that the amount that
      was added was always the #QTY# * (ceil (BASECOST*(10-1))). That's why
      I think that at least of what you have seen is rounding problems. Your
      more recent test using BASECOST didn't appear to have a clear cut
      pattern like that, so I want to eliminate one more element from the
      system being tested to see if that can help pinpoint where the code
      monkeys need to start poking for ants.

      Reed
      QA Silverback



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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • taluroniscandar
      ... Thanks, your homeworld stuff looks alot further along than the other. We ll make sure you get credited.
      Message 57 of 57 , Jun 3, 2005
        --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "norris_the_monk"
        <norris_the_monk@h...> wrote:
        > Guys,
        > Use any of my stuff you wish, just include PK Lucas AKA norris_the_monk
        > in the credits and I'm happy :-)
        >
        > PK Lucas ( norris_the_monk@h...)

        Thanks, your homeworld stuff looks alot further along than the other.

        We'll make sure you get credited.
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