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Re: Substitution Levels...

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  • gjorbjond
    As an example: XXXX Wizard substitution levels: Level 1 -- Take an additional opposed school, get ability XXX Level 5 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat,
    Message 1 of 12 , Sep 2, 2004
      As an example:

      XXXX Wizard substitution levels:

      Level 1 -- Take an additional opposed school, get ability XXX
      Level 5 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability YYY
      Level 10 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability ZZZ

      The only way I can see to do it currently is to make an entirely
      different class with the benifits for the appropriate levels replaced.
      That's not really a good solution though since you can choose to take
      or not take each substitution level individually, but only at the time
      you take the level of the appropriate class. Is there a way to set up
      a template to replace the normal stuff for a level of a given class
      with a new set of abilities?


      --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Eddy Anthony <eddyba@m...>
      wrote:
      > On 9/2/04 10:16 AM, "gjorbjond" <chris.r.griffin@c...> wrote:
      >
      > > Any ideas about the best way to go about implementing substitution
      > > levels like those in the Planar Handbook and Races of Stone, or are
      > > there code issues that need to be addressed before this is possible?
      >
      > PCGen cannot include these two books because they are closed content
      but I'd
      > be interested to know what the concept here is, I haven't yet bought
      these
      > books. The idea might show up in a book we can do, could you elaborate.
      >
      > With a clear idea of what is needed we could take this over to
      LSTFileHelp
      > and talk about it in generic terms.
      > --
      > ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
      > ~ PCGen Content Silverback
    • blithwyn
      I don t have the books either so I may be far off here. The level 5 and 10 looks doable. Just make hidden feat/s of type Metamagic (with a PRExx or two to
      Message 2 of 12 , Sep 2, 2004
        I don't have the books either so I may be far off here.
        The level 5 and 10 looks doable.
        Just make hidden feat/s of type Metamagic (with a PRExx or two to
        control availability). Let then that feat give you the desired
        ability, whatever that can be.
        (The only issue is to avoid giving the choice to other classes that
        grant Metamagic feats)

        Ratheof Blithwyn
        Data Lemur

        --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "gjorbjond"
        <chris.r.griffin@c...> wrote:
        > As an example:
        >
        > XXXX Wizard substitution levels:
        >
        > Level 1 -- Take an additional opposed school, get ability XXX
        > Level 5 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability YYY
        > Level 10 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability ZZZ
        >
        > The only way I can see to do it currently is to make an entirely
        > different class with the benifits for the appropriate levels replaced.
        > That's not really a good solution though since you can choose to take
        > or not take each substitution level individually, but only at the time
        > you take the level of the appropriate class. Is there a way to set up
        > a template to replace the normal stuff for a level of a given class
        > with a new set of abilities?
        >
        >
        > --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Eddy Anthony <eddyba@m...>
        > wrote:
        > > On 9/2/04 10:16 AM, "gjorbjond" <chris.r.griffin@c...> wrote:
        > >
        > > > Any ideas about the best way to go about implementing substitution
        > > > levels like those in the Planar Handbook and Races of Stone, or are
        > > > there code issues that need to be addressed before this is possible?
        > >
        > > PCGen cannot include these two books because they are closed content
        > but I'd
        > > be interested to know what the concept here is, I haven't yet bought
        > these
        > > books. The idea might show up in a book we can do, could you
        elaborate.
        > >
        > > With a clear idea of what is needed we could take this over to
        > LSTFileHelp
        > > and talk about it in generic terms.
        > > --
        > > ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
        > > ~ PCGen Content Silverback
      • gjorbjond
        That was just one of the examples. Others were stuff like Paladin gives up turning for something else or a ranger gives up a favored enemy. The easiest thing
        Message 3 of 12 , Sep 2, 2004
          That was just one of the examples. Others were stuff like Paladin
          gives up turning for something else or a ranger gives up a favored
          enemy. The easiest thing would be to have the capability to .MOD a
          particular level of a class. Barring that, the ability to set up a
          template to back out all the things a class gets at that level and
          replace it with new abilities.


          --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "blithwyn" <blithwyn@y...>
          wrote:
          > I don't have the books either so I may be far off here.
          > The level 5 and 10 looks doable.
          > Just make hidden feat/s of type Metamagic (with a PRExx or two to
          > control availability). Let then that feat give you the desired
          > ability, whatever that can be.
          > (The only issue is to avoid giving the choice to other classes that
          > grant Metamagic feats)
          >
          > Ratheof Blithwyn
          > Data Lemur
          >
          > --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "gjorbjond"
          > <chris.r.griffin@c...> wrote:
          > > As an example:
          > >
          > > XXXX Wizard substitution levels:
          > >
          > > Level 1 -- Take an additional opposed school, get ability XXX
          > > Level 5 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability YYY
          > > Level 10 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability ZZZ
          > >
          > > The only way I can see to do it currently is to make an entirely
          > > different class with the benifits for the appropriate levels replaced.
          > > That's not really a good solution though since you can choose to take
          > > or not take each substitution level individually, but only at the time
          > > you take the level of the appropriate class. Is there a way to set up
          > > a template to replace the normal stuff for a level of a given class
          > > with a new set of abilities?
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Eddy Anthony <eddyba@m...>
          > > wrote:
          > > > On 9/2/04 10:16 AM, "gjorbjond" <chris.r.griffin@c...> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > > Any ideas about the best way to go about implementing substitution
          > > > > levels like those in the Planar Handbook and Races of Stone,
          or are
          > > > > there code issues that need to be addressed before this is
          possible?
          > > >
          > > > PCGen cannot include these two books because they are closed content
          > > but I'd
          > > > be interested to know what the concept here is, I haven't yet bought
          > > these
          > > > books. The idea might show up in a book we can do, could you
          > elaborate.
          > > >
          > > > With a clear idea of what is needed we could take this over to
          > > LSTFileHelp
          > > > and talk about it in generic terms.
          > > > --
          > > > ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
          > > > ~ PCGen Content Silverback
        • Paul W. King
          ... Oh, this sounds like the variant Wizards that Unearthed Arcana (an OGC source) has. If you don t get the familiar, you get an ability. I forget what the
          Message 4 of 12 , Sep 2, 2004
            > Level 1 -- Take an additional opposed school, get ability XXX
            > Level 5 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability YYY
            > Level 10 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability ZZZ

            Oh, this sounds like the variant Wizards that Unearthed Arcana (an
            OGC source) has. If you don't get the familiar, you get an ability. I
            forget what the other 2 options are...don't have book in front of me.

            Paul W. King
            TM SB, OGL/PL Chimp, Data Tamarin, BoD
          • gjorbjond
            It s very similar. I m just looking for a shortcut to altering one or two aspects of a class without having to create an entirely new class entry.
            Message 5 of 12 , Sep 2, 2004
              It's very similar. I'm just looking for a shortcut to altering one or
              two aspects of a class without having to create an entirely new class
              entry.

              --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "Paul W. King"
              <paulking.rhochi@v...> wrote:
              > > Level 1 -- Take an additional opposed school, get ability XXX
              > > Level 5 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability YYY
              > > Level 10 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability ZZZ
              >
              > Oh, this sounds like the variant Wizards that Unearthed Arcana (an
              > OGC source) has. If you don't get the familiar, you get an ability. I
              > forget what the other 2 options are...don't have book in front of me.
              >
              > Paul W. King
              > TM SB, OGL/PL Chimp, Data Tamarin, BoD
            • obfuscatedus
              Unfortunately, short of a complete working of the classes to make each level grant modular benefits based on feats/templates, there is not an easy way to do
              Message 6 of 12 , Sep 4, 2004
                Unfortunately, short of a complete working of the classes to make
                each level grant modular benefits based on feats/templates, there is
                not an easy way to do this. Heck, even subclasses might be able to
                shortcut your workload here (depending on what exactly is required).

                Specifically in Unearthed Arcana, I have not been able to find an
                easy way to do these 'variants' and have usually resorted to
                additional classes.

                -Robert Biskup

                --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "gjorbjond"
                <chris.r.griffin@c...> wrote:
                > It's very similar. I'm just looking for a shortcut to altering
                one or
                > two aspects of a class without having to create an entirely new
                class
                > entry.
                >
                > --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "Paul W. King"
                > <paulking.rhochi@v...> wrote:
                > > > Level 1 -- Take an additional opposed school, get ability
                XXX
                > > > Level 5 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability YYY
                > > > Level 10 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability
                ZZZ
                > >
                > > Oh, this sounds like the variant Wizards that Unearthed Arcana
                (an
                > > OGC source) has. If you don't get the familiar, you get an
                ability. I
                > > forget what the other 2 options are...don't have book in front
                of me.
                > >
                > > Paul W. King
                > > TM SB, OGL/PL Chimp, Data Tamarin, BoD
              • taluroniscandar
                ... Very similar. Not exect but close. And can mostly be coded into PCGen feats.
                Message 7 of 12 , Sep 7, 2004
                  --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "Paul W. King"
                  <paulking.rhochi@v...> wrote:
                  > > Level 1 -- Take an additional opposed school, get ability XXX
                  > > Level 5 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability YYY
                  > > Level 10 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability ZZZ
                  >
                  > Oh, this sounds like the variant Wizards that Unearthed Arcana (an
                  > OGC source) has. If you don't get the familiar, you get an ability. I
                  > forget what the other 2 options are...don't have book in front of me.

                  Very similar. Not exect but close.

                  And can mostly be coded into PCGen feats.
                • taluroniscandar
                  Most of the substitution benefits are likely (in PCGen) to be coded as feats. Most of the replaced benefits are already coded as feats in PCGen (Turn/Rebuke,
                  Message 8 of 12 , Sep 7, 2004
                    Most of the substitution benefits are likely (in PCGen) to be coded as
                    feats.

                    Most of the 'replaced' benefits are already coded as feats in PCGen
                    (Turn/Rebuke, ranger favored, uncanny dodge, evasion, wizard 5 level
                    metamagic, etc).

                    The easiest way to support substitution levels would be by .MODing the
                    classlevel line ADD:FEAT statement to allow the extra choices.

                    --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "gjorbjond"
                    <chris.r.griffin@c...> wrote:
                    > That was just one of the examples. Others were stuff like Paladin
                    > gives up turning for something else or a ranger gives up a favored
                    > enemy. The easiest thing would be to have the capability to .MOD a
                    > particular level of a class. Barring that, the ability to set up a
                    > template to back out all the things a class gets at that level and
                    > replace it with new abilities.
                    >
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