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RE: [PCGenListFileHelp] Substitution Levels...

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  • Paul Grosse
    ... Ummm Eddy, we are in Lsthelp :) Paul G.
    Message 1 of 12 , Sep 2, 2004
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      > On 9/2/04 10:16 AM, "gjorbjond" <chris.r.griffin@...> wrote:
      >
      > > Any ideas about the best way to go about implementing substitution
      > > levels like those in the Planar Handbook and Races of Stone, or are
      > > there code issues that need to be addressed before this is possible?
      >
      > PCGen cannot include these two books because they are closed
      > content but I'd be interested to know what the concept here
      > is, I haven't yet bought these books. The idea might show up
      > in a book we can do, could you elaborate.
      >
      > With a clear idea of what is needed we could take this over
      > to LSTFileHelp and talk about it in generic terms.
      > --
      > ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
      > ~ PCGen Content Silverback
      >
      >

      Ummm Eddy, we are in Lsthelp :)

      Paul G.
    • Eddy Anthony
      ... Er.. Sorry. I m at work and all my PCGen mail gets routed to one folder unlike the setup I have at home. I got all confusled ;) That¹s what I get for
      Message 2 of 12 , Sep 2, 2004
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        On 9/2/04 10:48 AM, "Paul Grosse" <paul.grosse@...> wrote:

        > Ummm Eddy, we are in Lsthelp :)
        >
        > Paul G.

        Er.. Sorry.
        I'm at work and all my PCGen mail gets routed to one folder unlike the setup
        I have at home. I got all confusled ;)
        That¹s what I get for trying to read mail and preflight three magazines at
        the same time.
        --
        ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
        ~ PCGen Content Silverback
      • gjorbjond
        As an example: XXXX Wizard substitution levels: Level 1 -- Take an additional opposed school, get ability XXX Level 5 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat,
        Message 3 of 12 , Sep 2, 2004
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          As an example:

          XXXX Wizard substitution levels:

          Level 1 -- Take an additional opposed school, get ability XXX
          Level 5 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability YYY
          Level 10 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability ZZZ

          The only way I can see to do it currently is to make an entirely
          different class with the benifits for the appropriate levels replaced.
          That's not really a good solution though since you can choose to take
          or not take each substitution level individually, but only at the time
          you take the level of the appropriate class. Is there a way to set up
          a template to replace the normal stuff for a level of a given class
          with a new set of abilities?


          --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Eddy Anthony <eddyba@m...>
          wrote:
          > On 9/2/04 10:16 AM, "gjorbjond" <chris.r.griffin@c...> wrote:
          >
          > > Any ideas about the best way to go about implementing substitution
          > > levels like those in the Planar Handbook and Races of Stone, or are
          > > there code issues that need to be addressed before this is possible?
          >
          > PCGen cannot include these two books because they are closed content
          but I'd
          > be interested to know what the concept here is, I haven't yet bought
          these
          > books. The idea might show up in a book we can do, could you elaborate.
          >
          > With a clear idea of what is needed we could take this over to
          LSTFileHelp
          > and talk about it in generic terms.
          > --
          > ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
          > ~ PCGen Content Silverback
        • blithwyn
          I don t have the books either so I may be far off here. The level 5 and 10 looks doable. Just make hidden feat/s of type Metamagic (with a PRExx or two to
          Message 4 of 12 , Sep 2, 2004
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            I don't have the books either so I may be far off here.
            The level 5 and 10 looks doable.
            Just make hidden feat/s of type Metamagic (with a PRExx or two to
            control availability). Let then that feat give you the desired
            ability, whatever that can be.
            (The only issue is to avoid giving the choice to other classes that
            grant Metamagic feats)

            Ratheof Blithwyn
            Data Lemur

            --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "gjorbjond"
            <chris.r.griffin@c...> wrote:
            > As an example:
            >
            > XXXX Wizard substitution levels:
            >
            > Level 1 -- Take an additional opposed school, get ability XXX
            > Level 5 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability YYY
            > Level 10 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability ZZZ
            >
            > The only way I can see to do it currently is to make an entirely
            > different class with the benifits for the appropriate levels replaced.
            > That's not really a good solution though since you can choose to take
            > or not take each substitution level individually, but only at the time
            > you take the level of the appropriate class. Is there a way to set up
            > a template to replace the normal stuff for a level of a given class
            > with a new set of abilities?
            >
            >
            > --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Eddy Anthony <eddyba@m...>
            > wrote:
            > > On 9/2/04 10:16 AM, "gjorbjond" <chris.r.griffin@c...> wrote:
            > >
            > > > Any ideas about the best way to go about implementing substitution
            > > > levels like those in the Planar Handbook and Races of Stone, or are
            > > > there code issues that need to be addressed before this is possible?
            > >
            > > PCGen cannot include these two books because they are closed content
            > but I'd
            > > be interested to know what the concept here is, I haven't yet bought
            > these
            > > books. The idea might show up in a book we can do, could you
            elaborate.
            > >
            > > With a clear idea of what is needed we could take this over to
            > LSTFileHelp
            > > and talk about it in generic terms.
            > > --
            > > ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
            > > ~ PCGen Content Silverback
          • gjorbjond
            That was just one of the examples. Others were stuff like Paladin gives up turning for something else or a ranger gives up a favored enemy. The easiest thing
            Message 5 of 12 , Sep 2, 2004
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              That was just one of the examples. Others were stuff like Paladin
              gives up turning for something else or a ranger gives up a favored
              enemy. The easiest thing would be to have the capability to .MOD a
              particular level of a class. Barring that, the ability to set up a
              template to back out all the things a class gets at that level and
              replace it with new abilities.


              --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "blithwyn" <blithwyn@y...>
              wrote:
              > I don't have the books either so I may be far off here.
              > The level 5 and 10 looks doable.
              > Just make hidden feat/s of type Metamagic (with a PRExx or two to
              > control availability). Let then that feat give you the desired
              > ability, whatever that can be.
              > (The only issue is to avoid giving the choice to other classes that
              > grant Metamagic feats)
              >
              > Ratheof Blithwyn
              > Data Lemur
              >
              > --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "gjorbjond"
              > <chris.r.griffin@c...> wrote:
              > > As an example:
              > >
              > > XXXX Wizard substitution levels:
              > >
              > > Level 1 -- Take an additional opposed school, get ability XXX
              > > Level 5 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability YYY
              > > Level 10 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability ZZZ
              > >
              > > The only way I can see to do it currently is to make an entirely
              > > different class with the benifits for the appropriate levels replaced.
              > > That's not really a good solution though since you can choose to take
              > > or not take each substitution level individually, but only at the time
              > > you take the level of the appropriate class. Is there a way to set up
              > > a template to replace the normal stuff for a level of a given class
              > > with a new set of abilities?
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Eddy Anthony <eddyba@m...>
              > > wrote:
              > > > On 9/2/04 10:16 AM, "gjorbjond" <chris.r.griffin@c...> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > > Any ideas about the best way to go about implementing substitution
              > > > > levels like those in the Planar Handbook and Races of Stone,
              or are
              > > > > there code issues that need to be addressed before this is
              possible?
              > > >
              > > > PCGen cannot include these two books because they are closed content
              > > but I'd
              > > > be interested to know what the concept here is, I haven't yet bought
              > > these
              > > > books. The idea might show up in a book we can do, could you
              > elaborate.
              > > >
              > > > With a clear idea of what is needed we could take this over to
              > > LSTFileHelp
              > > > and talk about it in generic terms.
              > > > --
              > > > ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
              > > > ~ PCGen Content Silverback
            • Paul W. King
              ... Oh, this sounds like the variant Wizards that Unearthed Arcana (an OGC source) has. If you don t get the familiar, you get an ability. I forget what the
              Message 6 of 12 , Sep 2, 2004
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                > Level 1 -- Take an additional opposed school, get ability XXX
                > Level 5 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability YYY
                > Level 10 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability ZZZ

                Oh, this sounds like the variant Wizards that Unearthed Arcana (an
                OGC source) has. If you don't get the familiar, you get an ability. I
                forget what the other 2 options are...don't have book in front of me.

                Paul W. King
                TM SB, OGL/PL Chimp, Data Tamarin, BoD
              • gjorbjond
                It s very similar. I m just looking for a shortcut to altering one or two aspects of a class without having to create an entirely new class entry.
                Message 7 of 12 , Sep 2, 2004
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                  It's very similar. I'm just looking for a shortcut to altering one or
                  two aspects of a class without having to create an entirely new class
                  entry.

                  --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "Paul W. King"
                  <paulking.rhochi@v...> wrote:
                  > > Level 1 -- Take an additional opposed school, get ability XXX
                  > > Level 5 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability YYY
                  > > Level 10 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability ZZZ
                  >
                  > Oh, this sounds like the variant Wizards that Unearthed Arcana (an
                  > OGC source) has. If you don't get the familiar, you get an ability. I
                  > forget what the other 2 options are...don't have book in front of me.
                  >
                  > Paul W. King
                  > TM SB, OGL/PL Chimp, Data Tamarin, BoD
                • obfuscatedus
                  Unfortunately, short of a complete working of the classes to make each level grant modular benefits based on feats/templates, there is not an easy way to do
                  Message 8 of 12 , Sep 4, 2004
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                    Unfortunately, short of a complete working of the classes to make
                    each level grant modular benefits based on feats/templates, there is
                    not an easy way to do this. Heck, even subclasses might be able to
                    shortcut your workload here (depending on what exactly is required).

                    Specifically in Unearthed Arcana, I have not been able to find an
                    easy way to do these 'variants' and have usually resorted to
                    additional classes.

                    -Robert Biskup

                    --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "gjorbjond"
                    <chris.r.griffin@c...> wrote:
                    > It's very similar. I'm just looking for a shortcut to altering
                    one or
                    > two aspects of a class without having to create an entirely new
                    class
                    > entry.
                    >
                    > --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "Paul W. King"
                    > <paulking.rhochi@v...> wrote:
                    > > > Level 1 -- Take an additional opposed school, get ability
                    XXX
                    > > > Level 5 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability YYY
                    > > > Level 10 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability
                    ZZZ
                    > >
                    > > Oh, this sounds like the variant Wizards that Unearthed Arcana
                    (an
                    > > OGC source) has. If you don't get the familiar, you get an
                    ability. I
                    > > forget what the other 2 options are...don't have book in front
                    of me.
                    > >
                    > > Paul W. King
                    > > TM SB, OGL/PL Chimp, Data Tamarin, BoD
                  • taluroniscandar
                    ... Very similar. Not exect but close. And can mostly be coded into PCGen feats.
                    Message 9 of 12 , Sep 7, 2004
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                      --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "Paul W. King"
                      <paulking.rhochi@v...> wrote:
                      > > Level 1 -- Take an additional opposed school, get ability XXX
                      > > Level 5 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability YYY
                      > > Level 10 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability ZZZ
                      >
                      > Oh, this sounds like the variant Wizards that Unearthed Arcana (an
                      > OGC source) has. If you don't get the familiar, you get an ability. I
                      > forget what the other 2 options are...don't have book in front of me.

                      Very similar. Not exect but close.

                      And can mostly be coded into PCGen feats.
                    • taluroniscandar
                      Most of the substitution benefits are likely (in PCGen) to be coded as feats. Most of the replaced benefits are already coded as feats in PCGen (Turn/Rebuke,
                      Message 10 of 12 , Sep 7, 2004
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                        Most of the substitution benefits are likely (in PCGen) to be coded as
                        feats.

                        Most of the 'replaced' benefits are already coded as feats in PCGen
                        (Turn/Rebuke, ranger favored, uncanny dodge, evasion, wizard 5 level
                        metamagic, etc).

                        The easiest way to support substitution levels would be by .MODing the
                        classlevel line ADD:FEAT statement to allow the extra choices.

                        --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "gjorbjond"
                        <chris.r.griffin@c...> wrote:
                        > That was just one of the examples. Others were stuff like Paladin
                        > gives up turning for something else or a ranger gives up a favored
                        > enemy. The easiest thing would be to have the capability to .MOD a
                        > particular level of a class. Barring that, the ability to set up a
                        > template to back out all the things a class gets at that level and
                        > replace it with new abilities.
                        >
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