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Substitution Levels...

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  • gjorbjond
    Any ideas about the best way to go about implementing substitution levels like those in the Planar Handbook and Races of Stone, or are there code issues that
    Message 1 of 12 , Sep 2 7:16 AM
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      Any ideas about the best way to go about implementing substitution
      levels like those in the Planar Handbook and Races of Stone, or are
      there code issues that need to be addressed before this is possible?
    • Eddy Anthony
      ... PCGen cannot include these two books because they are closed content but I d be interested to know what the concept here is, I haven t yet bought these
      Message 2 of 12 , Sep 2 7:31 AM
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        On 9/2/04 10:16 AM, "gjorbjond" <chris.r.griffin@...> wrote:

        > Any ideas about the best way to go about implementing substitution
        > levels like those in the Planar Handbook and Races of Stone, or are
        > there code issues that need to be addressed before this is possible?

        PCGen cannot include these two books because they are closed content but I'd
        be interested to know what the concept here is, I haven't yet bought these
        books. The idea might show up in a book we can do, could you elaborate.

        With a clear idea of what is needed we could take this over to LSTFileHelp
        and talk about it in generic terms.
        --
        ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
        ~ PCGen Content Silverback
      • Paul Grosse
        ... Ummm Eddy, we are in Lsthelp :) Paul G.
        Message 3 of 12 , Sep 2 7:48 AM
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          > On 9/2/04 10:16 AM, "gjorbjond" <chris.r.griffin@...> wrote:
          >
          > > Any ideas about the best way to go about implementing substitution
          > > levels like those in the Planar Handbook and Races of Stone, or are
          > > there code issues that need to be addressed before this is possible?
          >
          > PCGen cannot include these two books because they are closed
          > content but I'd be interested to know what the concept here
          > is, I haven't yet bought these books. The idea might show up
          > in a book we can do, could you elaborate.
          >
          > With a clear idea of what is needed we could take this over
          > to LSTFileHelp and talk about it in generic terms.
          > --
          > ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
          > ~ PCGen Content Silverback
          >
          >

          Ummm Eddy, we are in Lsthelp :)

          Paul G.
        • Eddy Anthony
          ... Er.. Sorry. I m at work and all my PCGen mail gets routed to one folder unlike the setup I have at home. I got all confusled ;) That¹s what I get for
          Message 4 of 12 , Sep 2 7:54 AM
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            On 9/2/04 10:48 AM, "Paul Grosse" <paul.grosse@...> wrote:

            > Ummm Eddy, we are in Lsthelp :)
            >
            > Paul G.

            Er.. Sorry.
            I'm at work and all my PCGen mail gets routed to one folder unlike the setup
            I have at home. I got all confusled ;)
            That¹s what I get for trying to read mail and preflight three magazines at
            the same time.
            --
            ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
            ~ PCGen Content Silverback
          • gjorbjond
            As an example: XXXX Wizard substitution levels: Level 1 -- Take an additional opposed school, get ability XXX Level 5 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat,
            Message 5 of 12 , Sep 2 8:07 AM
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              As an example:

              XXXX Wizard substitution levels:

              Level 1 -- Take an additional opposed school, get ability XXX
              Level 5 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability YYY
              Level 10 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability ZZZ

              The only way I can see to do it currently is to make an entirely
              different class with the benifits for the appropriate levels replaced.
              That's not really a good solution though since you can choose to take
              or not take each substitution level individually, but only at the time
              you take the level of the appropriate class. Is there a way to set up
              a template to replace the normal stuff for a level of a given class
              with a new set of abilities?


              --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Eddy Anthony <eddyba@m...>
              wrote:
              > On 9/2/04 10:16 AM, "gjorbjond" <chris.r.griffin@c...> wrote:
              >
              > > Any ideas about the best way to go about implementing substitution
              > > levels like those in the Planar Handbook and Races of Stone, or are
              > > there code issues that need to be addressed before this is possible?
              >
              > PCGen cannot include these two books because they are closed content
              but I'd
              > be interested to know what the concept here is, I haven't yet bought
              these
              > books. The idea might show up in a book we can do, could you elaborate.
              >
              > With a clear idea of what is needed we could take this over to
              LSTFileHelp
              > and talk about it in generic terms.
              > --
              > ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
              > ~ PCGen Content Silverback
            • blithwyn
              I don t have the books either so I may be far off here. The level 5 and 10 looks doable. Just make hidden feat/s of type Metamagic (with a PRExx or two to
              Message 6 of 12 , Sep 2 9:32 AM
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                I don't have the books either so I may be far off here.
                The level 5 and 10 looks doable.
                Just make hidden feat/s of type Metamagic (with a PRExx or two to
                control availability). Let then that feat give you the desired
                ability, whatever that can be.
                (The only issue is to avoid giving the choice to other classes that
                grant Metamagic feats)

                Ratheof Blithwyn
                Data Lemur

                --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "gjorbjond"
                <chris.r.griffin@c...> wrote:
                > As an example:
                >
                > XXXX Wizard substitution levels:
                >
                > Level 1 -- Take an additional opposed school, get ability XXX
                > Level 5 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability YYY
                > Level 10 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability ZZZ
                >
                > The only way I can see to do it currently is to make an entirely
                > different class with the benifits for the appropriate levels replaced.
                > That's not really a good solution though since you can choose to take
                > or not take each substitution level individually, but only at the time
                > you take the level of the appropriate class. Is there a way to set up
                > a template to replace the normal stuff for a level of a given class
                > with a new set of abilities?
                >
                >
                > --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Eddy Anthony <eddyba@m...>
                > wrote:
                > > On 9/2/04 10:16 AM, "gjorbjond" <chris.r.griffin@c...> wrote:
                > >
                > > > Any ideas about the best way to go about implementing substitution
                > > > levels like those in the Planar Handbook and Races of Stone, or are
                > > > there code issues that need to be addressed before this is possible?
                > >
                > > PCGen cannot include these two books because they are closed content
                > but I'd
                > > be interested to know what the concept here is, I haven't yet bought
                > these
                > > books. The idea might show up in a book we can do, could you
                elaborate.
                > >
                > > With a clear idea of what is needed we could take this over to
                > LSTFileHelp
                > > and talk about it in generic terms.
                > > --
                > > ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
                > > ~ PCGen Content Silverback
              • gjorbjond
                That was just one of the examples. Others were stuff like Paladin gives up turning for something else or a ranger gives up a favored enemy. The easiest thing
                Message 7 of 12 , Sep 2 9:54 AM
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                  That was just one of the examples. Others were stuff like Paladin
                  gives up turning for something else or a ranger gives up a favored
                  enemy. The easiest thing would be to have the capability to .MOD a
                  particular level of a class. Barring that, the ability to set up a
                  template to back out all the things a class gets at that level and
                  replace it with new abilities.


                  --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "blithwyn" <blithwyn@y...>
                  wrote:
                  > I don't have the books either so I may be far off here.
                  > The level 5 and 10 looks doable.
                  > Just make hidden feat/s of type Metamagic (with a PRExx or two to
                  > control availability). Let then that feat give you the desired
                  > ability, whatever that can be.
                  > (The only issue is to avoid giving the choice to other classes that
                  > grant Metamagic feats)
                  >
                  > Ratheof Blithwyn
                  > Data Lemur
                  >
                  > --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "gjorbjond"
                  > <chris.r.griffin@c...> wrote:
                  > > As an example:
                  > >
                  > > XXXX Wizard substitution levels:
                  > >
                  > > Level 1 -- Take an additional opposed school, get ability XXX
                  > > Level 5 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability YYY
                  > > Level 10 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability ZZZ
                  > >
                  > > The only way I can see to do it currently is to make an entirely
                  > > different class with the benifits for the appropriate levels replaced.
                  > > That's not really a good solution though since you can choose to take
                  > > or not take each substitution level individually, but only at the time
                  > > you take the level of the appropriate class. Is there a way to set up
                  > > a template to replace the normal stuff for a level of a given class
                  > > with a new set of abilities?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Eddy Anthony <eddyba@m...>
                  > > wrote:
                  > > > On 9/2/04 10:16 AM, "gjorbjond" <chris.r.griffin@c...> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > > Any ideas about the best way to go about implementing substitution
                  > > > > levels like those in the Planar Handbook and Races of Stone,
                  or are
                  > > > > there code issues that need to be addressed before this is
                  possible?
                  > > >
                  > > > PCGen cannot include these two books because they are closed content
                  > > but I'd
                  > > > be interested to know what the concept here is, I haven't yet bought
                  > > these
                  > > > books. The idea might show up in a book we can do, could you
                  > elaborate.
                  > > >
                  > > > With a clear idea of what is needed we could take this over to
                  > > LSTFileHelp
                  > > > and talk about it in generic terms.
                  > > > --
                  > > > ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
                  > > > ~ PCGen Content Silverback
                • Paul W. King
                  ... Oh, this sounds like the variant Wizards that Unearthed Arcana (an OGC source) has. If you don t get the familiar, you get an ability. I forget what the
                  Message 8 of 12 , Sep 2 10:30 AM
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                    > Level 1 -- Take an additional opposed school, get ability XXX
                    > Level 5 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability YYY
                    > Level 10 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability ZZZ

                    Oh, this sounds like the variant Wizards that Unearthed Arcana (an
                    OGC source) has. If you don't get the familiar, you get an ability. I
                    forget what the other 2 options are...don't have book in front of me.

                    Paul W. King
                    TM SB, OGL/PL Chimp, Data Tamarin, BoD
                  • gjorbjond
                    It s very similar. I m just looking for a shortcut to altering one or two aspects of a class without having to create an entirely new class entry.
                    Message 9 of 12 , Sep 2 11:44 AM
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                      It's very similar. I'm just looking for a shortcut to altering one or
                      two aspects of a class without having to create an entirely new class
                      entry.

                      --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "Paul W. King"
                      <paulking.rhochi@v...> wrote:
                      > > Level 1 -- Take an additional opposed school, get ability XXX
                      > > Level 5 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability YYY
                      > > Level 10 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability ZZZ
                      >
                      > Oh, this sounds like the variant Wizards that Unearthed Arcana (an
                      > OGC source) has. If you don't get the familiar, you get an ability. I
                      > forget what the other 2 options are...don't have book in front of me.
                      >
                      > Paul W. King
                      > TM SB, OGL/PL Chimp, Data Tamarin, BoD
                    • obfuscatedus
                      Unfortunately, short of a complete working of the classes to make each level grant modular benefits based on feats/templates, there is not an easy way to do
                      Message 10 of 12 , Sep 4 1:00 PM
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                        Unfortunately, short of a complete working of the classes to make
                        each level grant modular benefits based on feats/templates, there is
                        not an easy way to do this. Heck, even subclasses might be able to
                        shortcut your workload here (depending on what exactly is required).

                        Specifically in Unearthed Arcana, I have not been able to find an
                        easy way to do these 'variants' and have usually resorted to
                        additional classes.

                        -Robert Biskup

                        --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "gjorbjond"
                        <chris.r.griffin@c...> wrote:
                        > It's very similar. I'm just looking for a shortcut to altering
                        one or
                        > two aspects of a class without having to create an entirely new
                        class
                        > entry.
                        >
                        > --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "Paul W. King"
                        > <paulking.rhochi@v...> wrote:
                        > > > Level 1 -- Take an additional opposed school, get ability
                        XXX
                        > > > Level 5 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability YYY
                        > > > Level 10 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability
                        ZZZ
                        > >
                        > > Oh, this sounds like the variant Wizards that Unearthed Arcana
                        (an
                        > > OGC source) has. If you don't get the familiar, you get an
                        ability. I
                        > > forget what the other 2 options are...don't have book in front
                        of me.
                        > >
                        > > Paul W. King
                        > > TM SB, OGL/PL Chimp, Data Tamarin, BoD
                      • taluroniscandar
                        ... Very similar. Not exect but close. And can mostly be coded into PCGen feats.
                        Message 11 of 12 , Sep 7 8:59 AM
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                          --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "Paul W. King"
                          <paulking.rhochi@v...> wrote:
                          > > Level 1 -- Take an additional opposed school, get ability XXX
                          > > Level 5 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability YYY
                          > > Level 10 -- Instead of getting the bonus feat, get ability ZZZ
                          >
                          > Oh, this sounds like the variant Wizards that Unearthed Arcana (an
                          > OGC source) has. If you don't get the familiar, you get an ability. I
                          > forget what the other 2 options are...don't have book in front of me.

                          Very similar. Not exect but close.

                          And can mostly be coded into PCGen feats.
                        • taluroniscandar
                          Most of the substitution benefits are likely (in PCGen) to be coded as feats. Most of the replaced benefits are already coded as feats in PCGen (Turn/Rebuke,
                          Message 12 of 12 , Sep 7 9:06 AM
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                            Most of the substitution benefits are likely (in PCGen) to be coded as
                            feats.

                            Most of the 'replaced' benefits are already coded as feats in PCGen
                            (Turn/Rebuke, ranger favored, uncanny dodge, evasion, wizard 5 level
                            metamagic, etc).

                            The easiest way to support substitution levels would be by .MODing the
                            classlevel line ADD:FEAT statement to allow the extra choices.

                            --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "gjorbjond"
                            <chris.r.griffin@c...> wrote:
                            > That was just one of the examples. Others were stuff like Paladin
                            > gives up turning for something else or a ranger gives up a favored
                            > enemy. The easiest thing would be to have the capability to .MOD a
                            > particular level of a class. Barring that, the ability to set up a
                            > template to back out all the things a class gets at that level and
                            > replace it with new abilities.
                            >
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