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RE: [bump] [PCGenListFileHelp] CLASS and SUBCLASS

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  • Paul W. King
    Would you be able to take the class more than once? You could be a Karate Master and an Aikido Master, both of which use the Martial Arts Master class...one
    Message 1 of 23 , Mar 6 1:42 AM
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      Would you be able to take the class more than once? You could be a Karate
      Master and an Aikido Master, both of which use the Martial Arts Master
      class...one focuses on Karate and the other Aikido.

      Paul W. King
      OGL SB, PL Chimp, Data Tamarin, TM Lemur, BoD

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Hetter [mailto:hetter71@...]
      Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 11:40 PM
      To: PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [bump] [PCGenListFileHelp] CLASS and SUBCLASS

      Why not set it up the same way as the ranger fighting style?
    • Hetter
      Hrmmm....sorry, I focused in on the feat aspect that you mentioned, didn t realize you could actually take the class more than once. In that case, the only
      Message 2 of 23 , Mar 6 5:39 AM
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        Hrmmm....sorry, I focused in on the feat aspect that you mentioned,
        didn't realize you could actually take the class more than once. In
        that case, the only way I know of to do it would be doing the however
        many (40+?) sublcasses.

        --
        Hetter
        Special Projects Silverback
        PCGen Bod

        Paul W. King wrote:

        >Would you be able to take the class more than once? You could be a Karate
        >Master and an Aikido Master, both of which use the Martial Arts Master
        >class...one focuses on Karate and the other Aikido.
        >
        >Paul W. King
        >OGL SB, PL Chimp, Data Tamarin, TM Lemur, BoD
        >
        >-----Original Message-----
        >From: Hetter [mailto:hetter71@...]
        >Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 11:40 PM
        >To: PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: Re: [bump] [PCGenListFileHelp] CLASS and SUBCLASS
        >
        >Why not set it up the same way as the ranger fighting style?
        >
        >
      • Paul W. King
        But would making them subclasses work? I just tried taking more than 1 Wiz specialization (the only use of SUBCLASS I m aware of) and couldn t. I think it d
        Message 3 of 23 , Mar 6 5:51 AM
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          But would making them subclasses work? I just tried taking more than 1 Wiz
          specialization (the only use of SUBCLASS I'm aware of) and couldn't.

          I think it'd be a shame to have so much duplication, since the BAB, F/R/W
          saves, Reputation and Defense progression and the levels to choose the bonus
          feats and bonus martial arts styles would be the same for all the subclasses
          of the Contemplative Master and the Martial Arts Master (so we're talking
          over 80 total classes).

          Paul W. King
          OGL SB, PL Chimp, Data Tamarin, TM Lemur, BoD

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Hetter [mailto:hetter71@...]
          Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 8:40 AM
          To: PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [bump] [PCGenListFileHelp] CLASS and SUBCLASS


          Hrmmm....sorry, I focused in on the feat aspect that you mentioned, didn't
          realize you could actually take the class more than once. In that case, the
          only way I know of to do it would be doing the however many (40+?)
          sublcasses.
        • Barak
          Subclasses wouldn t work. Hmmm, how about making a basic class (that wouldn t actually be taken) and then using .COPY and/or .MOD to make each of the variants?
          Message 4 of 23 , Mar 6 6:03 AM
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            Subclasses wouldn't work.

            Hmmm, how about making a basic class (that wouldn't actually be taken) and
            then using .COPY and/or .MOD to make each of the variants? Then you don't
            have the duplication.


            Barak
            ~PCGen BoD
            ~OS Silverback


            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Paul W. King [mailto:paulking.rhochi@...]
            >
            > But would making them subclasses work? I just tried taking
            > more than 1 Wiz specialization (the only use of SUBCLASS I'm
            > aware of) and couldn't.
            >
            > I think it'd be a shame to have so much duplication, since
            > the BAB, F/R/W saves, Reputation and Defense progression and
            > the levels to choose the bonus feats and bonus martial arts
            > styles would be the same for all the subclasses of the
            > Contemplative Master and the Martial Arts Master (so we're
            > talking over 80 total classes).
            >
            > Paul W. King
            > OGL SB, PL Chimp, Data Tamarin, TM Lemur, BoD
          • Paul W. King
            Here, let me use an actual base class, that isn t used. Martial Arts Master As I said previously, BAB, F/R/W, Rep and Def don t change based on the style
            Message 5 of 23 , Mar 6 6:11 AM
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              Here, let me use an actual base class, that isn't used.

              Martial Arts Master
              As I said previously, BAB, F/R/W, Rep and Def don't change based on the
              style chosen
              Now, at every odd level you get a Mastery and every even a bonus feat.
              These are chosen from the list dependent on the style your mastering.

              So, if you choose Aikido, then you must choose the Aikido Masteries and the
              Aikido bonus feats. There is nothing that forbids you to pick up Karate,
              but then for the Karate Master, you must choose Karate Masteries and Karate
              bonus feats.

              That make a bit more sense? Or was I getting confused on your explanation
              and just muddy the waters some more?

              Paul W. King
              OGL SB, PL Chimp, Data Tamarin, TM Lemur, BoD

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Barak [mailto:barak@...]
              Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 9:03 AM
              To: PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [bump] [PCGenListFileHelp] CLASS and SUBCLASS


              Subclasses wouldn't work.

              Hmmm, how about making a basic class (that wouldn't actually be taken) and
              then using .COPY and/or .MOD to make each of the variants? Then you don't
              have the duplication.
            • Barak
              ... Is this progressive or stacking? If I take 2 levels in Akido Master and then take a level in Karate Master, do I get the bonuses for a 3rd level master,
              Message 6 of 23 , Mar 6 7:04 AM
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                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Paul W. King [mailto:paulking.rhochi@...]
                >
                > Here, let me use an actual base class, that isn't used.
                >
                > Martial Arts Master
                > As I said previously, BAB, F/R/W, Rep and Def don't change
                > based on the style chosen Now, at every odd level you get a
                > Mastery and every even a bonus feat. These are chosen from
                > the list dependent on the style your mastering.

                Is this progressive or stacking? If I take 2 levels in Akido Master and
                then take a level in Karate Master, do I get the bonuses for a 3rd level
                master, or the bonuses for a 2nd level Akido and a 1st level Karate? If it
                stacks it'll be very problematical. If it doesn't, cool. :p

                > So, if you choose Aikido, then you must choose the Aikido
                > Masteries and the Aikido bonus feats. There is nothing that
                > forbids you to pick up Karate, but then for the Karate
                > Master, you must choose Karate Masteries and Karate bonus feats.

                Ok. Easy enough (I think). Following are what I'd try... classes then
                feats.

                **********************
                Master Class (Do Not Take)
                BAB F/R/W etc.
                1) ADD:FEAT(TYPE=Mastery)
                2) ADD:FEAT(TYPE=Bonus)

                Master Class (Do Not Take).COPY=Akido Master
                1 DEFINE:MasterType|0 BONUS:VAR|MasterType|1

                Master Class (Do Not Take).COPY=Karate Master
                1 DEFINE:MasterType|0 BONUS:VAR|MasterType|2
                ***********************
                Akido Smash
                TYPE:Mastery
                PREVAREQ:MasterType,1
                Stuff

                Akido Dodge
                TYPE:Mastery
                PREVAREQ:MasterType,1
                Stuff

                Karate Kick
                TYPE:Mastery
                PREVAREQ:MasterType,2
                Stuff

                Karate Chop
                TYPE:Mastery
                PREVAREQ:MasterType,2
                Stuff

                > That make a bit more sense? Or was I getting confused on your
                > explanation and just muddy the waters some more?

                I think you were confused (or maybe I was confusing :p). See above.

                Barak

                PS:Let me know if it works... That was all off the top of my head and from
                the docs.
              • taluroniscandar
                ... than 1 Wiz ... Just for future reference Psion uses SUBCLASSes also.
                Message 7 of 23 , Mar 6 8:46 AM
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                  > But would making them subclasses work? I just tried taking more
                  than 1 Wiz
                  > specialization (the only use of SUBCLASS I'm aware of) and couldn't.

                  Just for future reference Psion uses SUBCLASSes also.
                • taluroniscandar
                  ... and the ... Karate, ... Karate ... explanation ... Could create a basic class (with the BAB, FRW, etc) then put the rest of the stuff into PCGen templates
                  Message 8 of 23 , Mar 6 8:52 AM
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                    --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "Paul W. King"
                    <paulking.rhochi@v...> wrote:
                    > Here, let me use an actual base class, that isn't used.
                    >
                    > Martial Arts Master
                    > As I said previously, BAB, F/R/W, Rep and Def don't change based on the
                    > style chosen
                    > Now, at every odd level you get a Mastery and every even a bonus feat.
                    > These are chosen from the list dependent on the style your mastering.
                    >
                    > So, if you choose Aikido, then you must choose the Aikido Masteries
                    and the
                    > Aikido bonus feats. There is nothing that forbids you to pick up
                    Karate,
                    > but then for the Karate Master, you must choose Karate Masteries and
                    Karate
                    > bonus feats.
                    >
                    > That make a bit more sense? Or was I getting confused on your
                    explanation
                    > and just muddy the waters some more?
                    >

                    Could create a basic class (with the BAB, FRW, etc) then put the rest
                    of the stuff into PCGen templates (which are not exactly the same as
                    DnD templates) Apply the skill, qualify for feats etc, thru the
                    template (PRETEMPLATE) or just apply the feats and mastery stuff from
                    the template itself. At, what is it, every odd level, give the
                    character a TEMPLATE choice and base every else off of that choice.
                  • Paul W. King
                    ... Its the 2nd one. In your example, you d have an Aikido mastery and Aikido feat as 2nd level Aikido Master and a Karate mastery as a 1st level Karate
                    Message 9 of 23 , Mar 6 11:49 AM
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                      > Is this progressive or stacking? If I take 2 levels in Akido
                      > Master and then take a level in Karate Master, do I get the
                      > bonuses for a 3rd level master, or the bonuses for a 2nd level
                      > Akido and a 1st level Karate? If it stacks it'll be very
                      > problematical. If it doesn't, cool. :p

                      Its the 2nd one. In your example, you'd have an Aikido mastery and
                      Aikido feat as 2nd level Aikido Master and a Karate mastery as a 1st
                      level Karate Master.

                      > Ok. Easy enough (I think). Following are what I'd try... classes
                      > then feats.

                      Looking at your example, it would seem that you can't take multiple
                      classes. If you take Aikido Master, MasterType is set to 1. If you
                      then take Karate Master, MasterType goes up to 3 (1+2), and you'd
                      get a different set of Mastery.

                      Paul W. King
                      OGL SB, PL Chimp, Data Tamarin, TM Lemur, BoD
                    • Paul W. King
                      ... *smacks head against wall* Boy! Do I now feel stupid. I m going to take some advil now...I have a headache. :P
                      Message 10 of 23 , Mar 6 11:53 AM
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                        > Just for future reference Psion uses SUBCLASSes also.

                        *smacks head against wall*

                        Boy! Do I now feel stupid. I'm going to take some advil now...I
                        have a headache. :P
                      • Paul W. King
                        ... Would that work with being a multiple master? You could, conceivably, be an Aikido Master 1, Karate Master 1 and Jujitsu Master 1. Paul W. King OGL SB, PL
                        Message 11 of 23 , Mar 6 11:56 AM
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                          > Could create a basic class (with the BAB, FRW, etc) then put the
                          > rest of the stuff into PCGen templates (which are not exactly the
                          > same as DnD templates) Apply the skill, qualify for feats etc,
                          > thru the template (PRETEMPLATE) or just apply the feats and
                          > mastery stuff from the template itself. At, what is it, every odd
                          > level, give the character a TEMPLATE choice and base every else
                          > off of that choice.

                          Would that work with being a multiple master? You could,
                          conceivably, be an Aikido Master 1, Karate Master 1 and Jujitsu
                          Master 1.

                          Paul W. King
                          OGL SB, PL Chimp, Data Tamarin, TM Lemur, BoD
                        • Barak
                          ... Doh... You re right. You d have to define and test for a separate variable for each one. Course then if you have two of them, you ll be offered feats
                          Message 12 of 23 , Mar 6 12:02 PM
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                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: Paul W. King [mailto:paulking.rhochi@...]

                            > Looking at your example, it would seem that you can't take multiple
                            > classes. If you take Aikido Master, MasterType is set to 1. If you
                            > then take Karate Master, MasterType goes up to 3 (1+2), and you'd
                            > get a different set of Mastery.

                            Doh... You're right. You'd have to define and test for a separate variable
                            for each one. Course then if you have two of them, you'll be offered feats
                            from both of them when the chooser pops. Ugh.

                            Why don't you do something simple for a change???? :p

                            Barak
                          • Paul W. King
                            Because none of the rules are simple? :P ... From: Barak [mailto:barak@voyager.net] Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 3:03 PM To:
                            Message 13 of 23 , Mar 6 12:07 PM
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                              Because none of the rules are simple? :P

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Barak [mailto:barak@...]
                              Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 3:03 PM
                              To: PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [bump] [PCGenListFileHelp] CLASS and SUBCLASS


                              Why don't you do something simple for a change???? :p
                            • Paul W. King
                              In Legends of Excalibur, to become a Knight, you need a Nobility (I made it a new stat) of 41 or higher. Now, there are ex-Knights, but that only happens if
                              Message 14 of 23 , Mar 6 6:23 PM
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                                In Legends of Excalibur, to become a Knight, you need a Nobility (I made it
                                a new stat) of 41 or higher. Now, there are ex-Knights, but that only
                                happens if your Nobility drops below 20. Is there a way to code this up? I
                                know Paladins become ex-Paladins if they stop being LG, but this ex class
                                has a bit more leeway.

                                Paul W. King
                                OGL SB, PL Chimp, Data Tamarin, TM Lemur, BoD
                              • Paul W. King
                                Legends of Excalibur has a feat called Innate Spell which reduces the spell point cost of a particular spell its applied to. Now, the Enchantress PrC grants
                                Message 15 of 23 , Mar 6 8:47 PM
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                                  Legends of Excalibur has a feat called Innate Spell which reduces the spell
                                  point cost of a particular spell its applied to. Now, the Enchantress PrC
                                  grants the Innate Spell feat, but it can only be applied to a limited number
                                  of spells.

                                  From the docs, CHOOSE:SPELLLIST appears to be what I need for the general
                                  case. Is there a way to utilize the general feat for the Enchatress'
                                  specific application of it, or would it be easier to make a 2nd feat?

                                  Paul W. King
                                  OGL SB, PL Chimp, Data Tamarin, TM Lemur, BoD
                                • taluroniscandar
                                  ... I believe you can place level-based, er, stuff in templates but it likely go off TL or CL rather than level since you got the template. Someone else was
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Mar 8 5:53 AM
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                                    --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "Paul W. King"
                                    <paulking.rhochi@v...> wrote:
                                    > > Could create a basic class (with the BAB, FRW, etc) then put the
                                    > > rest of the stuff into PCGen templates (which are not exactly the
                                    > > same as DnD templates) Apply the skill, qualify for feats etc,
                                    > > thru the template (PRETEMPLATE) or just apply the feats and
                                    > > mastery stuff from the template itself. At, what is it, every odd
                                    > > level, give the character a TEMPLATE choice and base every else
                                    > > off of that choice.
                                    >
                                    > Would that work with being a multiple master? You could,
                                    > conceivably, be an Aikido Master 1, Karate Master 1 and Jujitsu
                                    > Master 1.

                                    I believe you can place level-based, er, 'stuff' in templates but it
                                    likely go off TL or CL rather than level since you got the template.

                                    Someone else was recently asking about 'level-since you got
                                    something'. I think it ended up a FReq.
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