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[bump] [PCGenListFileHelp] CLASS and SUBCLASS

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  • Paul W. King
    *bump* ... From: Paul W. King [mailto:paulking.rhochi@verizon.net] Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 2:15 PM To: PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com Subject:
    Message 1 of 23 , Mar 5, 2004
      *bump*

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Paul W. King [mailto:paulking.rhochi@...]
      Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 2:15 PM
      To: PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [PCGenListFileHelp] CLASS and SUBCLASS


      I wasn't sure if there was an easier way to do this or not.

      In RPG Object's Blood and Fists, there are 2 Advanced Classes (modern based
      system) called Contemplative Master and Martial Arts Master.

      However, when you take the 1st level of either class, you need to pick one
      of over 40 martial arts styles (Aikido, Karate and Kendo as examples),
      which are a type of feat. As you progress in either class, you get bonus
      feats based upon your chosen style and chosen style masteries. You can take
      each class more than once; for example, you could be a Contemplative Aikido
      Master and a Contemplative Kendo Master.

      Having said all that. Is there a way, currently, to have a chooser on which
      style you'll be focusing on, or will 40+ subclasses be needed for these
      classes?

      Paul W. King
      OGL SB, PL Chimp, Data Tamarin, TM Lemur, BoD
    • Hetter
      ... Why not set it up the same way as the ranger fighting style? -- Hetter Special Projects Silverback PCGen Bod
      Message 2 of 23 , Mar 5, 2004
        Paul W. King wrote:

        >I wasn't sure if there was an easier way to do this or not.
        >
        >In RPG Object's Blood and Fists, there are 2 Advanced Classes (modern based
        >system) called Contemplative Master and Martial Arts Master.
        >
        >However, when you take the 1st level of either class, you need to pick one
        >of over 40 martial arts styles (Aikido, Karate and Kendo as examples),
        >which are a type of feat. As you progress in either class, you get bonus
        >feats based upon your chosen style and chosen style masteries. You can take
        >each class more than once; for example, you could be a Contemplative Aikido
        >Master and a Contemplative Kendo Master.
        >
        >Having said all that. Is there a way, currently, to have a chooser on which
        >style you'll be focusing on, or will 40+ subclasses be needed for these
        >classes?
        >
        >
        Why not set it up the same way as the ranger fighting style?

        --
        Hetter
        Special Projects Silverback
        PCGen Bod
      • Paul W. King
        Would you be able to take the class more than once? You could be a Karate Master and an Aikido Master, both of which use the Martial Arts Master class...one
        Message 3 of 23 , Mar 6, 2004
          Would you be able to take the class more than once? You could be a Karate
          Master and an Aikido Master, both of which use the Martial Arts Master
          class...one focuses on Karate and the other Aikido.

          Paul W. King
          OGL SB, PL Chimp, Data Tamarin, TM Lemur, BoD

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Hetter [mailto:hetter71@...]
          Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 11:40 PM
          To: PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [bump] [PCGenListFileHelp] CLASS and SUBCLASS

          Why not set it up the same way as the ranger fighting style?
        • Hetter
          Hrmmm....sorry, I focused in on the feat aspect that you mentioned, didn t realize you could actually take the class more than once. In that case, the only
          Message 4 of 23 , Mar 6, 2004
            Hrmmm....sorry, I focused in on the feat aspect that you mentioned,
            didn't realize you could actually take the class more than once. In
            that case, the only way I know of to do it would be doing the however
            many (40+?) sublcasses.

            --
            Hetter
            Special Projects Silverback
            PCGen Bod

            Paul W. King wrote:

            >Would you be able to take the class more than once? You could be a Karate
            >Master and an Aikido Master, both of which use the Martial Arts Master
            >class...one focuses on Karate and the other Aikido.
            >
            >Paul W. King
            >OGL SB, PL Chimp, Data Tamarin, TM Lemur, BoD
            >
            >-----Original Message-----
            >From: Hetter [mailto:hetter71@...]
            >Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 11:40 PM
            >To: PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: Re: [bump] [PCGenListFileHelp] CLASS and SUBCLASS
            >
            >Why not set it up the same way as the ranger fighting style?
            >
            >
          • Paul W. King
            But would making them subclasses work? I just tried taking more than 1 Wiz specialization (the only use of SUBCLASS I m aware of) and couldn t. I think it d
            Message 5 of 23 , Mar 6, 2004
              But would making them subclasses work? I just tried taking more than 1 Wiz
              specialization (the only use of SUBCLASS I'm aware of) and couldn't.

              I think it'd be a shame to have so much duplication, since the BAB, F/R/W
              saves, Reputation and Defense progression and the levels to choose the bonus
              feats and bonus martial arts styles would be the same for all the subclasses
              of the Contemplative Master and the Martial Arts Master (so we're talking
              over 80 total classes).

              Paul W. King
              OGL SB, PL Chimp, Data Tamarin, TM Lemur, BoD

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Hetter [mailto:hetter71@...]
              Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 8:40 AM
              To: PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [bump] [PCGenListFileHelp] CLASS and SUBCLASS


              Hrmmm....sorry, I focused in on the feat aspect that you mentioned, didn't
              realize you could actually take the class more than once. In that case, the
              only way I know of to do it would be doing the however many (40+?)
              sublcasses.
            • Barak
              Subclasses wouldn t work. Hmmm, how about making a basic class (that wouldn t actually be taken) and then using .COPY and/or .MOD to make each of the variants?
              Message 6 of 23 , Mar 6, 2004
                Subclasses wouldn't work.

                Hmmm, how about making a basic class (that wouldn't actually be taken) and
                then using .COPY and/or .MOD to make each of the variants? Then you don't
                have the duplication.


                Barak
                ~PCGen BoD
                ~OS Silverback


                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Paul W. King [mailto:paulking.rhochi@...]
                >
                > But would making them subclasses work? I just tried taking
                > more than 1 Wiz specialization (the only use of SUBCLASS I'm
                > aware of) and couldn't.
                >
                > I think it'd be a shame to have so much duplication, since
                > the BAB, F/R/W saves, Reputation and Defense progression and
                > the levels to choose the bonus feats and bonus martial arts
                > styles would be the same for all the subclasses of the
                > Contemplative Master and the Martial Arts Master (so we're
                > talking over 80 total classes).
                >
                > Paul W. King
                > OGL SB, PL Chimp, Data Tamarin, TM Lemur, BoD
              • Paul W. King
                Here, let me use an actual base class, that isn t used. Martial Arts Master As I said previously, BAB, F/R/W, Rep and Def don t change based on the style
                Message 7 of 23 , Mar 6, 2004
                  Here, let me use an actual base class, that isn't used.

                  Martial Arts Master
                  As I said previously, BAB, F/R/W, Rep and Def don't change based on the
                  style chosen
                  Now, at every odd level you get a Mastery and every even a bonus feat.
                  These are chosen from the list dependent on the style your mastering.

                  So, if you choose Aikido, then you must choose the Aikido Masteries and the
                  Aikido bonus feats. There is nothing that forbids you to pick up Karate,
                  but then for the Karate Master, you must choose Karate Masteries and Karate
                  bonus feats.

                  That make a bit more sense? Or was I getting confused on your explanation
                  and just muddy the waters some more?

                  Paul W. King
                  OGL SB, PL Chimp, Data Tamarin, TM Lemur, BoD

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Barak [mailto:barak@...]
                  Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 9:03 AM
                  To: PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [bump] [PCGenListFileHelp] CLASS and SUBCLASS


                  Subclasses wouldn't work.

                  Hmmm, how about making a basic class (that wouldn't actually be taken) and
                  then using .COPY and/or .MOD to make each of the variants? Then you don't
                  have the duplication.
                • Barak
                  ... Is this progressive or stacking? If I take 2 levels in Akido Master and then take a level in Karate Master, do I get the bonuses for a 3rd level master,
                  Message 8 of 23 , Mar 6, 2004
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: Paul W. King [mailto:paulking.rhochi@...]
                    >
                    > Here, let me use an actual base class, that isn't used.
                    >
                    > Martial Arts Master
                    > As I said previously, BAB, F/R/W, Rep and Def don't change
                    > based on the style chosen Now, at every odd level you get a
                    > Mastery and every even a bonus feat. These are chosen from
                    > the list dependent on the style your mastering.

                    Is this progressive or stacking? If I take 2 levels in Akido Master and
                    then take a level in Karate Master, do I get the bonuses for a 3rd level
                    master, or the bonuses for a 2nd level Akido and a 1st level Karate? If it
                    stacks it'll be very problematical. If it doesn't, cool. :p

                    > So, if you choose Aikido, then you must choose the Aikido
                    > Masteries and the Aikido bonus feats. There is nothing that
                    > forbids you to pick up Karate, but then for the Karate
                    > Master, you must choose Karate Masteries and Karate bonus feats.

                    Ok. Easy enough (I think). Following are what I'd try... classes then
                    feats.

                    **********************
                    Master Class (Do Not Take)
                    BAB F/R/W etc.
                    1) ADD:FEAT(TYPE=Mastery)
                    2) ADD:FEAT(TYPE=Bonus)

                    Master Class (Do Not Take).COPY=Akido Master
                    1 DEFINE:MasterType|0 BONUS:VAR|MasterType|1

                    Master Class (Do Not Take).COPY=Karate Master
                    1 DEFINE:MasterType|0 BONUS:VAR|MasterType|2
                    ***********************
                    Akido Smash
                    TYPE:Mastery
                    PREVAREQ:MasterType,1
                    Stuff

                    Akido Dodge
                    TYPE:Mastery
                    PREVAREQ:MasterType,1
                    Stuff

                    Karate Kick
                    TYPE:Mastery
                    PREVAREQ:MasterType,2
                    Stuff

                    Karate Chop
                    TYPE:Mastery
                    PREVAREQ:MasterType,2
                    Stuff

                    > That make a bit more sense? Or was I getting confused on your
                    > explanation and just muddy the waters some more?

                    I think you were confused (or maybe I was confusing :p). See above.

                    Barak

                    PS:Let me know if it works... That was all off the top of my head and from
                    the docs.
                  • taluroniscandar
                    ... than 1 Wiz ... Just for future reference Psion uses SUBCLASSes also.
                    Message 9 of 23 , Mar 6, 2004
                      > But would making them subclasses work? I just tried taking more
                      than 1 Wiz
                      > specialization (the only use of SUBCLASS I'm aware of) and couldn't.

                      Just for future reference Psion uses SUBCLASSes also.
                    • taluroniscandar
                      ... and the ... Karate, ... Karate ... explanation ... Could create a basic class (with the BAB, FRW, etc) then put the rest of the stuff into PCGen templates
                      Message 10 of 23 , Mar 6, 2004
                        --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "Paul W. King"
                        <paulking.rhochi@v...> wrote:
                        > Here, let me use an actual base class, that isn't used.
                        >
                        > Martial Arts Master
                        > As I said previously, BAB, F/R/W, Rep and Def don't change based on the
                        > style chosen
                        > Now, at every odd level you get a Mastery and every even a bonus feat.
                        > These are chosen from the list dependent on the style your mastering.
                        >
                        > So, if you choose Aikido, then you must choose the Aikido Masteries
                        and the
                        > Aikido bonus feats. There is nothing that forbids you to pick up
                        Karate,
                        > but then for the Karate Master, you must choose Karate Masteries and
                        Karate
                        > bonus feats.
                        >
                        > That make a bit more sense? Or was I getting confused on your
                        explanation
                        > and just muddy the waters some more?
                        >

                        Could create a basic class (with the BAB, FRW, etc) then put the rest
                        of the stuff into PCGen templates (which are not exactly the same as
                        DnD templates) Apply the skill, qualify for feats etc, thru the
                        template (PRETEMPLATE) or just apply the feats and mastery stuff from
                        the template itself. At, what is it, every odd level, give the
                        character a TEMPLATE choice and base every else off of that choice.
                      • Paul W. King
                        ... Its the 2nd one. In your example, you d have an Aikido mastery and Aikido feat as 2nd level Aikido Master and a Karate mastery as a 1st level Karate
                        Message 11 of 23 , Mar 6, 2004
                          > Is this progressive or stacking? If I take 2 levels in Akido
                          > Master and then take a level in Karate Master, do I get the
                          > bonuses for a 3rd level master, or the bonuses for a 2nd level
                          > Akido and a 1st level Karate? If it stacks it'll be very
                          > problematical. If it doesn't, cool. :p

                          Its the 2nd one. In your example, you'd have an Aikido mastery and
                          Aikido feat as 2nd level Aikido Master and a Karate mastery as a 1st
                          level Karate Master.

                          > Ok. Easy enough (I think). Following are what I'd try... classes
                          > then feats.

                          Looking at your example, it would seem that you can't take multiple
                          classes. If you take Aikido Master, MasterType is set to 1. If you
                          then take Karate Master, MasterType goes up to 3 (1+2), and you'd
                          get a different set of Mastery.

                          Paul W. King
                          OGL SB, PL Chimp, Data Tamarin, TM Lemur, BoD
                        • Paul W. King
                          ... *smacks head against wall* Boy! Do I now feel stupid. I m going to take some advil now...I have a headache. :P
                          Message 12 of 23 , Mar 6, 2004
                            > Just for future reference Psion uses SUBCLASSes also.

                            *smacks head against wall*

                            Boy! Do I now feel stupid. I'm going to take some advil now...I
                            have a headache. :P
                          • Paul W. King
                            ... Would that work with being a multiple master? You could, conceivably, be an Aikido Master 1, Karate Master 1 and Jujitsu Master 1. Paul W. King OGL SB, PL
                            Message 13 of 23 , Mar 6, 2004
                              > Could create a basic class (with the BAB, FRW, etc) then put the
                              > rest of the stuff into PCGen templates (which are not exactly the
                              > same as DnD templates) Apply the skill, qualify for feats etc,
                              > thru the template (PRETEMPLATE) or just apply the feats and
                              > mastery stuff from the template itself. At, what is it, every odd
                              > level, give the character a TEMPLATE choice and base every else
                              > off of that choice.

                              Would that work with being a multiple master? You could,
                              conceivably, be an Aikido Master 1, Karate Master 1 and Jujitsu
                              Master 1.

                              Paul W. King
                              OGL SB, PL Chimp, Data Tamarin, TM Lemur, BoD
                            • Barak
                              ... Doh... You re right. You d have to define and test for a separate variable for each one. Course then if you have two of them, you ll be offered feats
                              Message 14 of 23 , Mar 6, 2004
                                > -----Original Message-----
                                > From: Paul W. King [mailto:paulking.rhochi@...]

                                > Looking at your example, it would seem that you can't take multiple
                                > classes. If you take Aikido Master, MasterType is set to 1. If you
                                > then take Karate Master, MasterType goes up to 3 (1+2), and you'd
                                > get a different set of Mastery.

                                Doh... You're right. You'd have to define and test for a separate variable
                                for each one. Course then if you have two of them, you'll be offered feats
                                from both of them when the chooser pops. Ugh.

                                Why don't you do something simple for a change???? :p

                                Barak
                              • Paul W. King
                                Because none of the rules are simple? :P ... From: Barak [mailto:barak@voyager.net] Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 3:03 PM To:
                                Message 15 of 23 , Mar 6, 2004
                                  Because none of the rules are simple? :P

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: Barak [mailto:barak@...]
                                  Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 3:03 PM
                                  To: PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: RE: [bump] [PCGenListFileHelp] CLASS and SUBCLASS


                                  Why don't you do something simple for a change???? :p
                                • Paul W. King
                                  In Legends of Excalibur, to become a Knight, you need a Nobility (I made it a new stat) of 41 or higher. Now, there are ex-Knights, but that only happens if
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Mar 6, 2004
                                    In Legends of Excalibur, to become a Knight, you need a Nobility (I made it
                                    a new stat) of 41 or higher. Now, there are ex-Knights, but that only
                                    happens if your Nobility drops below 20. Is there a way to code this up? I
                                    know Paladins become ex-Paladins if they stop being LG, but this ex class
                                    has a bit more leeway.

                                    Paul W. King
                                    OGL SB, PL Chimp, Data Tamarin, TM Lemur, BoD
                                  • Paul W. King
                                    Legends of Excalibur has a feat called Innate Spell which reduces the spell point cost of a particular spell its applied to. Now, the Enchantress PrC grants
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Mar 6, 2004
                                      Legends of Excalibur has a feat called Innate Spell which reduces the spell
                                      point cost of a particular spell its applied to. Now, the Enchantress PrC
                                      grants the Innate Spell feat, but it can only be applied to a limited number
                                      of spells.

                                      From the docs, CHOOSE:SPELLLIST appears to be what I need for the general
                                      case. Is there a way to utilize the general feat for the Enchatress'
                                      specific application of it, or would it be easier to make a 2nd feat?

                                      Paul W. King
                                      OGL SB, PL Chimp, Data Tamarin, TM Lemur, BoD
                                    • taluroniscandar
                                      ... I believe you can place level-based, er, stuff in templates but it likely go off TL or CL rather than level since you got the template. Someone else was
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Mar 8, 2004
                                        --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "Paul W. King"
                                        <paulking.rhochi@v...> wrote:
                                        > > Could create a basic class (with the BAB, FRW, etc) then put the
                                        > > rest of the stuff into PCGen templates (which are not exactly the
                                        > > same as DnD templates) Apply the skill, qualify for feats etc,
                                        > > thru the template (PRETEMPLATE) or just apply the feats and
                                        > > mastery stuff from the template itself. At, what is it, every odd
                                        > > level, give the character a TEMPLATE choice and base every else
                                        > > off of that choice.
                                        >
                                        > Would that work with being a multiple master? You could,
                                        > conceivably, be an Aikido Master 1, Karate Master 1 and Jujitsu
                                        > Master 1.

                                        I believe you can place level-based, er, 'stuff' in templates but it
                                        likely go off TL or CL rather than level since you got the template.

                                        Someone else was recently asking about 'level-since you got
                                        something'. I think it ended up a FReq.
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