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Re: [pcgen] Re: [Pathfinder] [Core] [Race] [Vision]

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  • Andrew
    Hi, Uhg, we slipped into LST coding, we really should move this over to the PCGen List File Help section. Please follow up over there. It shouldn t be
    Message 1 of 12 , Sep 11, 2012
      Hi,

      Uhg, we slipped into LST coding, we really should move this over to the PCGen List File Help
      section. Please follow up over there.

      It shouldn't be cross-polluting, but if it's the case:

      PREMULT:1,[PREVISION:1,Darkvision=30],[PREVISION:1,Low-Light]

      If that works, then you have a bug.

      You may try:

      PREVISION:1,Low-Light,Darkvision=30



      On 9/11/2012 9:23 AM, tripleduck wrote:
      > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew <drew0500@...> wrote:
      >> Oh, then I can help there. Let's make it really simple -
      >> PREABILITY:1,CATEGORY=Special Ability,TYPE.RacialVision
      > lol, I swear I tried this. :/ Well, it works now.
      >
      >> Any Race with the swappable Abilities HAVE this TYPE in those
      >> "Dummy" abilities. Hope that helps. (Lot less bulky then spelling
      >> out each ability).
      > Absolutely! Very nice solution and not bulky.
      >
      > There is one other issue, though, that is related to vision, but not this specific issue.
      >
      > PREVISION now requires that each given vision type have a range given (ex Darkvision=30). The problem with this is that Low-Light doesn't exactly work like that. As per the description from Paizo, low-light races "can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light." And since how far a human can see is subjective to visibility and line-of-sight, no real number value can be assigned.
      >
      > Take this example:
      > PREVISION:1,Darkvision=30,Low-Light
      >
      > As a result of the =x requirement, half-elves (and other low-light races) fail the PREVISION=Low-Light, because PCGen is forcing the 30' range from Darkvision (or so I suspect) onto Low-Light.
      >
      > Now, this is solved by using:
      > PREABILITY:1,CATEGORY=Special Ability,Vision ~ Darkvision,Vision ~ Low-Light
      >
      > As you had suggested as an alternative. But I guess my point is, forcing PREVISION to take a range basically makes it useless for Low-Light. Unless there's something I'm just missing :)
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Related Lists
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      >
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      --
      Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
      Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
      Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
      Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
      Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • tulsagrown
      ... According to the specifications, the older version of PREVISION allows a single =z at the end, which will apply to all given types. That syntax was
      Message 2 of 12 , Sep 11, 2012
        --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Andrew wrote:
        > It shouldn't be cross-polluting,

        According to the specifications, the older version of PREVISION allows a single =z at the end, which will apply to all given types. That syntax was deprecated as of 5.15.4, and will be removed in 6. I think this may be why.

        > but if it's the case:
        > PREMULT:1,[PREVISION:1,Darkvision=30],[PREVISION:1,Low-Light]
        > If that works, then you have a bug.
        > You may try:
        > PREVISION:1,Low-Light,Darkvision=30

        I'll test them all out and see.
      • Andrew
        Hi, If you are using 5.17.x - that syntax might still work. Try the premult version. ... -- Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing) Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of
        Message 3 of 12 , Sep 11, 2012
          Hi,

          If you are using 5.17.x - that syntax might still work. Try the premult version.

          On 9/11/2012 11:12 AM, tulsagrown wrote:
          > --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Andrew wrote:
          >> It shouldn't be cross-polluting,
          > According to the specifications, the older version of PREVISION allows a single =z at the end, which will apply to all given types. That syntax was deprecated as of 5.15.4, and will be removed in 6. I think this may be why.
          >
          >> but if it's the case:
          >> PREMULT:1,[PREVISION:1,Darkvision=30],[PREVISION:1,Low-Light]
          >> If that works, then you have a bug.
          >> You may try:
          >> PREVISION:1,Low-Light,Darkvision=30
          > I'll test them all out and see.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >

          --
          Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
          Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
          Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
          Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
          Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • tulsagrown
          ... Using both of these prerequisites: PREMULT:1,[PREVISION:1,Darkvision=30],[PREVISION:1,Low-Light] PREVISION:1,Low-Light,Darkvision=30 PCGen converts them
          Message 4 of 12 , Sep 11, 2012
            --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Andrew wrote:

            Using both of these prerequisites:
            PREMULT:1,[PREVISION:1,Darkvision=30],[PREVISION:1,Low-Light]
            PREVISION:1,Low-Light,Darkvision=30

            PCGen converts them into this prerequisite line:
            at least 1 of ( vision: Darkvision at least 30, vision: Low-Light at least 1 ) and at least 1 of ( vision: Low-Light at least 30, vision: Darkvision at least 30 )

            With a Dwarf (DV), both pass. With an Elf (LL), both fail.

            So, In the first, LL is gaining a range of 1 as its default. Whereas in the second, it seems to be falling back on the deprecated syntax.

            I still think it doesn't make any sense to assign a range value to LL.
          • tulsagrown
            ... Unless of course that value is actually supposed to be a range multiplier. Then it would make sense.
            Message 5 of 12 , Sep 11, 2012
              > I still think it doesn't make any sense to assign a range value to LL.

              Unless of course that value is actually supposed to be a range multiplier. Then it would make sense.
            • Andrew
              Hi, That s a code fix. Low-Light is assigned a value of 1 to indicate a True , not an actual range of 1. So, we have the deprecated syntax adjusting things.
              Message 6 of 12 , Sep 11, 2012
                Hi,

                That's a code fix. Low-Light is assigned a value of 1 to indicate a 'True', not an actual range of 1.

                So, we have the deprecated syntax adjusting things.

                Well, nothing wrong with using the PREMULT version as it's a valid form.

                On 9/11/2012 11:21 AM, tulsagrown wrote:
                > --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Andrew wrote:
                >
                > Using both of these prerequisites:
                > PREMULT:1,[PREVISION:1,Darkvision=30],[PREVISION:1,Low-Light]
                > PREVISION:1,Low-Light,Darkvision=30
                >
                > PCGen converts them into this prerequisite line:
                > at least 1 of ( vision: Darkvision at least 30, vision: Low-Light at least 1 ) and at least 1 of ( vision: Low-Light at least 30, vision: Darkvision at least 30 )
                >
                > With a Dwarf (DV), both pass. With an Elf (LL), both fail.
                >
                > So, In the first, LL is gaining a range of 1 as its default. Whereas in the second, it seems to be falling back on the deprecated syntax.
                >
                > I still think it doesn't make any sense to assign a range value to LL.
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >

                --
                Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
                Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
                Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Andrew
                Hi, No, no range multiplier. Just 0= False, and 1=True in true programming sense. Since we had an issue in the past where PREVISION:1,Low-Light would return
                Message 7 of 12 , Sep 11, 2012
                  Hi,

                  No, no range multiplier. Just 0= False, and 1=True in true programming sense. Since we had an issue
                  in the past where PREVISION:1,Low-Light would return the incorrect results. I think it translated
                  to "Low-Light Vision =0, so only races without Low-Light would qualify.

                  If you give a creature VISION:Low-Light (1') then you'd see Low-Light (1') displayed.

                  Trust me, it's an internal thing, character sheets don't show the internal fix.

                  Cheers,



                  On 9/11/2012 11:23 AM, tulsagrown wrote:
                  >> I still think it doesn't make any sense to assign a range value to LL.
                  > Unless of course that value is actually supposed to be a range multiplier. Then it would make sense.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  --
                  Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                  Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
                  Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
                  Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                  Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • tulsagrown
                  ... I ended up using the combination of: PREABILITY:1,CATEGORY=Special Ability,TYPE.RacialVision PREABILITY:1,CATEGORY=Special Ability,Vision ~
                  Message 8 of 12 , Sep 11, 2012
                    --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Andrew wrote:
                    > > PREMULT:1,[PREVISION:1,Darkvision=30],[PREVISION:1,Low-Light]
                    > > PREVISION:1,Low-Light,Darkvision=30

                    > That's a code fix. Low-Light is assigned a value of 1 to indicate a
                    > 'True', not an actual range of 1. So, we have the deprecated syntax
                    > adjusting things. Well, nothing wrong with using the PREMULT
                    > version as it's a valid form.

                    I ended up using the combination of:
                    PREABILITY:1,CATEGORY=Special Ability,TYPE.RacialVision
                    PREABILITY:1,CATEGORY=Special Ability,Vision ~ Darkvision,Vision ~ Low-Light

                    Which works splendidly. I think there's still a problem somewhere with PREVISION since LL isn't fulfilling the PREVISION prerequisites. The PCGen version of the first line turns into:
                    "at least 1 of ( vision: Darkvision at least 30, vision: Low-Light at least 1 )"

                    The latter fails even with LL.
                  • Andrew
                    Hi, Put up a JIRA Code Bug then. We ll have a coder take a look at it. ... -- Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing) Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors Data
                    Message 9 of 12 , Sep 11, 2012
                      Hi,

                      Put up a JIRA Code Bug then. We'll have a coder take a look at it.

                      On 9/11/2012 11:29 AM, tulsagrown wrote:
                      > --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Andrew wrote:
                      >>> PREMULT:1,[PREVISION:1,Darkvision=30],[PREVISION:1,Low-Light]
                      >>> PREVISION:1,Low-Light,Darkvision=30
                      >> That's a code fix. Low-Light is assigned a value of 1 to indicate a
                      >> 'True', not an actual range of 1. So, we have the deprecated syntax
                      >> adjusting things. Well, nothing wrong with using the PREMULT
                      >> version as it's a valid form.
                      > I ended up using the combination of:
                      > PREABILITY:1,CATEGORY=Special Ability,TYPE.RacialVision
                      > PREABILITY:1,CATEGORY=Special Ability,Vision ~ Darkvision,Vision ~ Low-Light
                      >
                      > Which works splendidly. I think there's still a problem somewhere with PREVISION since LL isn't fulfilling the PREVISION prerequisites. The PCGen version of the first line turns into:
                      > "at least 1 of ( vision: Darkvision at least 30, vision: Low-Light at least 1 )"
                      >
                      > The latter fails even with LL.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >

                      --
                      Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                      Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
                      Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
                      Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                      Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • tripleduck
                      ... http://jira.pcgen.org/browse/CODE-1609
                      Message 10 of 12 , Sep 11, 2012
                        --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Andrew wrote:
                        > Put up a JIRA Code Bug then. We'll have a coder take a look at it.

                        http://jira.pcgen.org/browse/CODE-1609
                      • tripleduck
                        James Dempsey suggested using PREVISION:1,Low-Light=ANY instead of PREVISION:1,Low-Light=1 . =ANY does indeed match correctly on characters that have low
                        Message 11 of 12 , Sep 12, 2012
                          James Dempsey suggested using "PREVISION:1,Low-Light=ANY" instead of "PREVISION:1,Low-Light=1". =ANY does indeed match correctly on characters that have low light vision (and no match for those that don't).

                          I could never get =1 to work.
                        • Andrew
                          I saw. We need to update the docs. ... -- Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing) Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur Unique
                          Message 12 of 12 , Sep 12, 2012
                            I saw.

                            We need to update the docs.



                            On 9/12/2012 12:43 PM, tripleduck wrote:
                            > James Dempsey suggested using "PREVISION:1,Low-Light=ANY" instead of "PREVISION:1,Low-Light=1". =ANY does indeed match correctly on characters that have low light vision (and no match for those that don't).
                            >
                            > I could never get =1 to work.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >

                            --
                            Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                            Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
                            Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
                            Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                            Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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