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Re: [pcgen] Re: [Pathfinder] [Core] [Race] [Vision]

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  • Andrew
    Hi, Uhg, we slipped into LST coding, we really should move this over to the PCGen List File Help section. Please follow up over there. It shouldn t be
    Message 1 of 12 , Sep 11, 2012
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      Hi,

      Uhg, we slipped into LST coding, we really should move this over to the PCGen List File Help
      section. Please follow up over there.

      It shouldn't be cross-polluting, but if it's the case:

      PREMULT:1,[PREVISION:1,Darkvision=30],[PREVISION:1,Low-Light]

      If that works, then you have a bug.

      You may try:

      PREVISION:1,Low-Light,Darkvision=30



      On 9/11/2012 9:23 AM, tripleduck wrote:
      > --- In pcgen@yahoogroups.com, Andrew <drew0500@...> wrote:
      >> Oh, then I can help there. Let's make it really simple -
      >> PREABILITY:1,CATEGORY=Special Ability,TYPE.RacialVision
      > lol, I swear I tried this. :/ Well, it works now.
      >
      >> Any Race with the swappable Abilities HAVE this TYPE in those
      >> "Dummy" abilities. Hope that helps. (Lot less bulky then spelling
      >> out each ability).
      > Absolutely! Very nice solution and not bulky.
      >
      > There is one other issue, though, that is related to vision, but not this specific issue.
      >
      > PREVISION now requires that each given vision type have a range given (ex Darkvision=30). The problem with this is that Low-Light doesn't exactly work like that. As per the description from Paizo, low-light races "can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light." And since how far a human can see is subjective to visibility and line-of-sight, no real number value can be assigned.
      >
      > Take this example:
      > PREVISION:1,Darkvision=30,Low-Light
      >
      > As a result of the =x requirement, half-elves (and other low-light races) fail the PREVISION=Low-Light, because PCGen is forcing the 30' range from Darkvision (or so I suspect) onto Low-Light.
      >
      > Now, this is solved by using:
      > PREABILITY:1,CATEGORY=Special Ability,Vision ~ Darkvision,Vision ~ Low-Light
      >
      > As you had suggested as an alternative. But I guess my point is, forcing PREVISION to take a range basically makes it useless for Low-Light. Unless there's something I'm just missing :)
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
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      --
      Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
      Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
      Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
      Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
      Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • tulsagrown
      ... According to the specifications, the older version of PREVISION allows a single =z at the end, which will apply to all given types. That syntax was
      Message 2 of 12 , Sep 11, 2012
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        --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Andrew wrote:
        > It shouldn't be cross-polluting,

        According to the specifications, the older version of PREVISION allows a single =z at the end, which will apply to all given types. That syntax was deprecated as of 5.15.4, and will be removed in 6. I think this may be why.

        > but if it's the case:
        > PREMULT:1,[PREVISION:1,Darkvision=30],[PREVISION:1,Low-Light]
        > If that works, then you have a bug.
        > You may try:
        > PREVISION:1,Low-Light,Darkvision=30

        I'll test them all out and see.
      • Andrew
        Hi, If you are using 5.17.x - that syntax might still work. Try the premult version. ... -- Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing) Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of
        Message 3 of 12 , Sep 11, 2012
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          Hi,

          If you are using 5.17.x - that syntax might still work. Try the premult version.

          On 9/11/2012 11:12 AM, tulsagrown wrote:
          > --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Andrew wrote:
          >> It shouldn't be cross-polluting,
          > According to the specifications, the older version of PREVISION allows a single =z at the end, which will apply to all given types. That syntax was deprecated as of 5.15.4, and will be removed in 6. I think this may be why.
          >
          >> but if it's the case:
          >> PREMULT:1,[PREVISION:1,Darkvision=30],[PREVISION:1,Low-Light]
          >> If that works, then you have a bug.
          >> You may try:
          >> PREVISION:1,Low-Light,Darkvision=30
          > I'll test them all out and see.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >

          --
          Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
          Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
          Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
          Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
          Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • tulsagrown
          ... Using both of these prerequisites: PREMULT:1,[PREVISION:1,Darkvision=30],[PREVISION:1,Low-Light] PREVISION:1,Low-Light,Darkvision=30 PCGen converts them
          Message 4 of 12 , Sep 11, 2012
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            --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Andrew wrote:

            Using both of these prerequisites:
            PREMULT:1,[PREVISION:1,Darkvision=30],[PREVISION:1,Low-Light]
            PREVISION:1,Low-Light,Darkvision=30

            PCGen converts them into this prerequisite line:
            at least 1 of ( vision: Darkvision at least 30, vision: Low-Light at least 1 ) and at least 1 of ( vision: Low-Light at least 30, vision: Darkvision at least 30 )

            With a Dwarf (DV), both pass. With an Elf (LL), both fail.

            So, In the first, LL is gaining a range of 1 as its default. Whereas in the second, it seems to be falling back on the deprecated syntax.

            I still think it doesn't make any sense to assign a range value to LL.
          • tulsagrown
            ... Unless of course that value is actually supposed to be a range multiplier. Then it would make sense.
            Message 5 of 12 , Sep 11, 2012
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              > I still think it doesn't make any sense to assign a range value to LL.

              Unless of course that value is actually supposed to be a range multiplier. Then it would make sense.
            • Andrew
              Hi, That s a code fix. Low-Light is assigned a value of 1 to indicate a True , not an actual range of 1. So, we have the deprecated syntax adjusting things.
              Message 6 of 12 , Sep 11, 2012
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                Hi,

                That's a code fix. Low-Light is assigned a value of 1 to indicate a 'True', not an actual range of 1.

                So, we have the deprecated syntax adjusting things.

                Well, nothing wrong with using the PREMULT version as it's a valid form.

                On 9/11/2012 11:21 AM, tulsagrown wrote:
                > --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Andrew wrote:
                >
                > Using both of these prerequisites:
                > PREMULT:1,[PREVISION:1,Darkvision=30],[PREVISION:1,Low-Light]
                > PREVISION:1,Low-Light,Darkvision=30
                >
                > PCGen converts them into this prerequisite line:
                > at least 1 of ( vision: Darkvision at least 30, vision: Low-Light at least 1 ) and at least 1 of ( vision: Low-Light at least 30, vision: Darkvision at least 30 )
                >
                > With a Dwarf (DV), both pass. With an Elf (LL), both fail.
                >
                > So, In the first, LL is gaining a range of 1 as its default. Whereas in the second, it seems to be falling back on the deprecated syntax.
                >
                > I still think it doesn't make any sense to assign a range value to LL.
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >

                --
                Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
                Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
                Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Andrew
                Hi, No, no range multiplier. Just 0= False, and 1=True in true programming sense. Since we had an issue in the past where PREVISION:1,Low-Light would return
                Message 7 of 12 , Sep 11, 2012
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                  Hi,

                  No, no range multiplier. Just 0= False, and 1=True in true programming sense. Since we had an issue
                  in the past where PREVISION:1,Low-Light would return the incorrect results. I think it translated
                  to "Low-Light Vision =0, so only races without Low-Light would qualify.

                  If you give a creature VISION:Low-Light (1') then you'd see Low-Light (1') displayed.

                  Trust me, it's an internal thing, character sheets don't show the internal fix.

                  Cheers,



                  On 9/11/2012 11:23 AM, tulsagrown wrote:
                  >> I still think it doesn't make any sense to assign a range value to LL.
                  > Unless of course that value is actually supposed to be a range multiplier. Then it would make sense.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  --
                  Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                  Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
                  Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
                  Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                  Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • tulsagrown
                  ... I ended up using the combination of: PREABILITY:1,CATEGORY=Special Ability,TYPE.RacialVision PREABILITY:1,CATEGORY=Special Ability,Vision ~
                  Message 8 of 12 , Sep 11, 2012
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                    --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Andrew wrote:
                    > > PREMULT:1,[PREVISION:1,Darkvision=30],[PREVISION:1,Low-Light]
                    > > PREVISION:1,Low-Light,Darkvision=30

                    > That's a code fix. Low-Light is assigned a value of 1 to indicate a
                    > 'True', not an actual range of 1. So, we have the deprecated syntax
                    > adjusting things. Well, nothing wrong with using the PREMULT
                    > version as it's a valid form.

                    I ended up using the combination of:
                    PREABILITY:1,CATEGORY=Special Ability,TYPE.RacialVision
                    PREABILITY:1,CATEGORY=Special Ability,Vision ~ Darkvision,Vision ~ Low-Light

                    Which works splendidly. I think there's still a problem somewhere with PREVISION since LL isn't fulfilling the PREVISION prerequisites. The PCGen version of the first line turns into:
                    "at least 1 of ( vision: Darkvision at least 30, vision: Low-Light at least 1 )"

                    The latter fails even with LL.
                  • Andrew
                    Hi, Put up a JIRA Code Bug then. We ll have a coder take a look at it. ... -- Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing) Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors Data
                    Message 9 of 12 , Sep 11, 2012
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                      Hi,

                      Put up a JIRA Code Bug then. We'll have a coder take a look at it.

                      On 9/11/2012 11:29 AM, tulsagrown wrote:
                      > --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Andrew wrote:
                      >>> PREMULT:1,[PREVISION:1,Darkvision=30],[PREVISION:1,Low-Light]
                      >>> PREVISION:1,Low-Light,Darkvision=30
                      >> That's a code fix. Low-Light is assigned a value of 1 to indicate a
                      >> 'True', not an actual range of 1. So, we have the deprecated syntax
                      >> adjusting things. Well, nothing wrong with using the PREMULT
                      >> version as it's a valid form.
                      > I ended up using the combination of:
                      > PREABILITY:1,CATEGORY=Special Ability,TYPE.RacialVision
                      > PREABILITY:1,CATEGORY=Special Ability,Vision ~ Darkvision,Vision ~ Low-Light
                      >
                      > Which works splendidly. I think there's still a problem somewhere with PREVISION since LL isn't fulfilling the PREVISION prerequisites. The PCGen version of the first line turns into:
                      > "at least 1 of ( vision: Darkvision at least 30, vision: Low-Light at least 1 )"
                      >
                      > The latter fails even with LL.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >

                      --
                      Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                      Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
                      Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
                      Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                      Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • tripleduck
                      ... http://jira.pcgen.org/browse/CODE-1609
                      Message 10 of 12 , Sep 11, 2012
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                        --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Andrew wrote:
                        > Put up a JIRA Code Bug then. We'll have a coder take a look at it.

                        http://jira.pcgen.org/browse/CODE-1609
                      • tripleduck
                        James Dempsey suggested using PREVISION:1,Low-Light=ANY instead of PREVISION:1,Low-Light=1 . =ANY does indeed match correctly on characters that have low
                        Message 11 of 12 , Sep 12, 2012
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                          James Dempsey suggested using "PREVISION:1,Low-Light=ANY" instead of "PREVISION:1,Low-Light=1". =ANY does indeed match correctly on characters that have low light vision (and no match for those that don't).

                          I could never get =1 to work.
                        • Andrew
                          I saw. We need to update the docs. ... -- Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing) Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur Unique
                          Message 12 of 12 , Sep 12, 2012
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                            I saw.

                            We need to update the docs.



                            On 9/12/2012 12:43 PM, tripleduck wrote:
                            > James Dempsey suggested using "PREVISION:1,Low-Light=ANY" instead of "PREVISION:1,Low-Light=1". =ANY does indeed match correctly on characters that have low light vision (and no match for those that don't).
                            >
                            > I could never get =1 to work.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >

                            --
                            Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
                            Admin Silverback - PCGen Board of Directors
                            Data 2nd, Docs Tamarin, OS Lemur
                            Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
                            Unique Title "The Torturer of PCGen"


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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