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Re: [PCGenListFileHelp] Shapeshifter woes

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  • Susan Dittmar
    Hi, ... How about creating appropriate equipment sets? Then you would - add the template to remove racial stuff - add the template to apply the new form s
    Message 1 of 5 , Jul 31, 2012
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      Hi,

      Quoting rogerwllco (g.a.renting@...):
      > I have a shapeshifting character (mostly Master of Many Forms).
      > I want to use the different shapes by applying templates on the fly in PCGen.
      > [...]

      How about creating appropriate equipment sets? Then you would
      - add the template to remove racial stuff
      - add the template to apply the new form's abilities
      - switch to the appropriate equipment set

      If I understood the rules correctly, most items (except for armor and
      shield with the Wild ability, and some very very few other items) do *not*
      change upon your character shifting, so you would need a different set of
      items anyhow. And it's not difficult to keep that up to date, as the
      information about 'not added items' is equipment-set dependent.

      I like the idea to split up the removal-code and the ability adding code in
      the code base, but I think I would even add the call to the
      removal-template to the new form's template, so the first two steps really
      condense to one. And perhaps it's even possible to have the equipment set
      chosen by template -- I do not know about that.

      Hope that helps (and I did not grossly misunderstand anything),

      Susan
    • rogerwllco
      ... I had not thought about different equipment sets, thanks for the idea, it will at least solve a part of my problem. ... We have some house rules (who
      Message 2 of 5 , Aug 8, 2012
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        --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Susan Dittmar <Susan.Dittmar@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi,
        >
        > Quoting rogerwllco (g.a.renting@...):
        > > I have a shapeshifting character (mostly Master of Many Forms).
        > > I want to use the different shapes by applying templates on the fly in PCGen.
        > > [...]
        >
        > How about creating appropriate equipment sets? Then you would
        > - add the template to remove racial stuff
        > - add the template to apply the new form's abilities
        > - switch to the appropriate equipment set
        >

        I had not thought about different equipment sets, thanks for the idea, it will at least solve a part of my problem.

        > If I understood the rules correctly, most items (except for armor and
        > shield with the Wild ability, and some very very few other items) do *not*

        We have some house rules (who doesn't when it comes to the polymorph/wildshape mess), but my biggest problem are the armor and shield, because they have the Wild enchant. If I change into a Will'o Wisp, I get 1 Str and 29 Dex and Small size.
        All of a sudden I'm more than heavy encumbered from my armor and shield. (Mithril chain shirt and large wooden shield). I can not remove them from the equipment set, as then I no longer get the armor bonus.

        Now what Wild does is somewhat open to interpretation:

        SRD 3.5: Wild
        The wearer of a suit of armor or a shield with this ability preserves his armor bonus (and any enhancement bonus) while in a wild shape. Armor and shields with this ability usually appear to be made covered in leaf patterns. While the wearer is in a wild shape, the armor cannot be seen.

        This text is not entirely clear, but I'm assuming that the armor did meld into the new shape but still provides the bonus. Next to this I'm assuming that such an armor does no longer count against the encumbrance, or otherwise Druids and other shape shifters would have a very hard time changing into anything tiny, or at least much smaller and weaker than themselves. (Toad, Bat, Raven all have Str 1).

        I suppose I will just make 7 equipment sets, (D/T/S/M/L/H/C) with my entire list of equipment, but then with custom versions with 0 cost and weight. (0 cost so that the value of what the character owns doesn't go out of whack).

        I was just wondering if there is an easier way to do this. With multiple shapeshifting characters in the campain, this is quite a hassle.

        > change upon your character shifting, so you would need a different set of
        > items anyhow. And it's not difficult to keep that up to date, as the
        > information about 'not added items' is equipment-set dependent.
        >
        > I like the idea to split up the removal-code and the ability adding code in
        > the code base, but I think I would even add the call to the
        > removal-template to the new form's template, so the first two steps really
        > condense to one. And perhaps it's even possible to have the equipment set
        > chosen by template -- I do not know about that.
        >
        I need separate templates for the removal and addition, as there are multiple characters, from different races, that have shape shifting abilities.

        For the dwarf I remove darkvision and con bonus, for the tiefling it's dex, darkvision and elemental resistances, for the half-orc it's str and darkvision, etc. It's a shape shifter heavy campaign and a lot of work in PCGen. (created templates for well over a hunded monster shapes).

        > Hope that helps (and I did not grossly misunderstand anything),
        >
        Thanks for the help. Any suggestions where it can be solved with a template is still useful, but with the different equipment sets it at least gets somewhat manageable.

        > Susan
        >
      • Doug Limmer
        You could have the effect of the items built in to the template; that would give you the equipment s abilities without the weight. I don t know if that s much
        Message 3 of 5 , Aug 8, 2012
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          You could have the effect of the items built in to the template; that
          would give you the equipment's abilities without the weight. I don't
          know if that's much less work than making a bunch of weight 0 items, though.

          DS/DL

          On 8/8/2012 1:22 PM, rogerwllco wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com
          > <mailto:PCGenListFileHelp%40yahoogroups.com>, Susan Dittmar
          > <Susan.Dittmar@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi,
          > >
          > > Quoting rogerwllco (g.a.renting@...):
          > > > I have a shapeshifting character (mostly Master of Many Forms).
          > > > I want to use the different shapes by applying templates on the
          > fly in PCGen.
          > > > [...]
          > >
          > > How about creating appropriate equipment sets? Then you would
          > > - add the template to remove racial stuff
          > > - add the template to apply the new form's abilities
          > > - switch to the appropriate equipment set
          > >
          >
          > I had not thought about different equipment sets, thanks for the idea,
          > it will at least solve a part of my problem.
          >
          > > If I understood the rules correctly, most items (except for armor and
          > > shield with the Wild ability, and some very very few other items) do
          > *not*
          >
          > We have some house rules (who doesn't when it comes to the
          > polymorph/wildshape mess), but my biggest problem are the armor and
          > shield, because they have the Wild enchant. If I change into a Will'o
          > Wisp, I get 1 Str and 29 Dex and Small size.
          > All of a sudden I'm more than heavy encumbered from my armor and
          > shield. (Mithril chain shirt and large wooden shield). I can not
          > remove them from the equipment set, as then I no longer get the armor
          > bonus.
          >
          > Now what Wild does is somewhat open to interpretation:
          >
          > SRD 3.5: Wild
          > The wearer of a suit of armor or a shield with this ability preserves
          > his armor bonus (and any enhancement bonus) while in a wild shape.
          > Armor and shields with this ability usually appear to be made covered
          > in leaf patterns. While the wearer is in a wild shape, the armor
          > cannot be seen.
          >
          > This text is not entirely clear, but I'm assuming that the armor did
          > meld into the new shape but still provides the bonus. Next to this I'm
          > assuming that such an armor does no longer count against the
          > encumbrance, or otherwise Druids and other shape shifters would have a
          > very hard time changing into anything tiny, or at least much smaller
          > and weaker than themselves. (Toad, Bat, Raven all have Str 1).
          >
          > I suppose I will just make 7 equipment sets, (D/T/S/M/L/H/C) with my
          > entire list of equipment, but then with custom versions with 0 cost
          > and weight. (0 cost so that the value of what the character owns
          > doesn't go out of whack).
          >
          > I was just wondering if there is an easier way to do this. With
          > multiple shapeshifting characters in the campain, this is quite a hassle.
          >
          > > change upon your character shifting, so you would need a different
          > set of
          > > items anyhow. And it's not difficult to keep that up to date, as the
          > > information about 'not added items' is equipment-set dependent.
          > >
          > > I like the idea to split up the removal-code and the ability adding
          > code in
          > > the code base, but I think I would even add the call to the
          > > removal-template to the new form's template, so the first two steps
          > really
          > > condense to one. And perhaps it's even possible to have the
          > equipment set
          > > chosen by template -- I do not know about that.
          > >
          > I need separate templates for the removal and addition, as there are
          > multiple characters, from different races, that have shape shifting
          > abilities.
          >
          > For the dwarf I remove darkvision and con bonus, for the tiefling it's
          > dex, darkvision and elemental resistances, for the half-orc it's str
          > and darkvision, etc. It's a shape shifter heavy campaign and a lot of
          > work in PCGen. (created templates for well over a hunded monster shapes).
          >
          > > Hope that helps (and I did not grossly misunderstand anything),
          > >
          > Thanks for the help. Any suggestions where it can be solved with a
          > template is still useful, but with the different equipment sets it at
          > least gets somewhat manageable.
          >
          > > Susan
          > >
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • rogerwllco
          ... That might actually be a better idea, especially for the armor and shield, which are giving me most of the encumbrance problems. I could see if I can add
          Message 4 of 5 , Aug 9, 2012
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            --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Doug Limmer <adventure@...> wrote:
            >
            > You could have the effect of the items built in to the template; that
            > would give you the equipment's abilities without the weight. I don't
            > know if that's much less work than making a bunch of weight 0 items, though.
            >
            > DS/DL
            >

            That might actually be a better idea, especially for the armor and shield, which are giving me most of the encumbrance problems. I could see if I can add it to the "remove racial bonuses" templates as those are more or less tailored to specific characters anyway.

            It's not ideal, but it might be a more doable workaround than maintaining 7 equipment sets per character.

            Thanks.

            > On 8/8/2012 1:22 PM, rogerwllco wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com
            > > <mailto:PCGenListFileHelp%40yahoogroups.com>, Susan Dittmar
            > > <Susan.Dittmar@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hi,
            > > >
            > > > Quoting rogerwllco (g.a.renting@):
            > > > > I have a shapeshifting character (mostly Master of Many Forms).
            > > > > I want to use the different shapes by applying templates on the
            > > fly in PCGen.
            > > > > [...]
            > > >
            > > > How about creating appropriate equipment sets? Then you would
            > > > - add the template to remove racial stuff
            > > > - add the template to apply the new form's abilities
            > > > - switch to the appropriate equipment set
            > > >
            > >
            > > I had not thought about different equipment sets, thanks for the idea,
            > > it will at least solve a part of my problem.
            > >
            > > > If I understood the rules correctly, most items (except for armor and
            > > > shield with the Wild ability, and some very very few other items) do
            > > *not*
            > >
            > > We have some house rules (who doesn't when it comes to the
            > > polymorph/wildshape mess), but my biggest problem are the armor and
            > > shield, because they have the Wild enchant. If I change into a Will'o
            > > Wisp, I get 1 Str and 29 Dex and Small size.
            > > All of a sudden I'm more than heavy encumbered from my armor and
            > > shield. (Mithril chain shirt and large wooden shield). I can not
            > > remove them from the equipment set, as then I no longer get the armor
            > > bonus.
            > >
            > > Now what Wild does is somewhat open to interpretation:
            > >
            > > SRD 3.5: Wild
            > > The wearer of a suit of armor or a shield with this ability preserves
            > > his armor bonus (and any enhancement bonus) while in a wild shape.
            > > Armor and shields with this ability usually appear to be made covered
            > > in leaf patterns. While the wearer is in a wild shape, the armor
            > > cannot be seen.
            > >
            > > This text is not entirely clear, but I'm assuming that the armor did
            > > meld into the new shape but still provides the bonus. Next to this I'm
            > > assuming that such an armor does no longer count against the
            > > encumbrance, or otherwise Druids and other shape shifters would have a
            > > very hard time changing into anything tiny, or at least much smaller
            > > and weaker than themselves. (Toad, Bat, Raven all have Str 1).
            > >
            > > I suppose I will just make 7 equipment sets, (D/T/S/M/L/H/C) with my
            > > entire list of equipment, but then with custom versions with 0 cost
            > > and weight. (0 cost so that the value of what the character owns
            > > doesn't go out of whack).
            > >
            > > I was just wondering if there is an easier way to do this. With
            > > multiple shapeshifting characters in the campain, this is quite a hassle.
            > >
            > > > change upon your character shifting, so you would need a different
            > > set of
            > > > items anyhow. And it's not difficult to keep that up to date, as the
            > > > information about 'not added items' is equipment-set dependent.
            > > >
            > > > I like the idea to split up the removal-code and the ability adding
            > > code in
            > > > the code base, but I think I would even add the call to the
            > > > removal-template to the new form's template, so the first two steps
            > > really
            > > > condense to one. And perhaps it's even possible to have the
            > > equipment set
            > > > chosen by template -- I do not know about that.
            > > >
            > > I need separate templates for the removal and addition, as there are
            > > multiple characters, from different races, that have shape shifting
            > > abilities.
            > >
            > > For the dwarf I remove darkvision and con bonus, for the tiefling it's
            > > dex, darkvision and elemental resistances, for the half-orc it's str
            > > and darkvision, etc. It's a shape shifter heavy campaign and a lot of
            > > work in PCGen. (created templates for well over a hunded monster shapes).
            > >
            > > > Hope that helps (and I did not grossly misunderstand anything),
            > > >
            > > Thanks for the help. Any suggestions where it can be solved with a
            > > template is still useful, but with the different equipment sets it at
            > > least gets somewhat manageable.
            > >
            > > > Susan
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
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