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Re: [PCGenListFileHelp] Re: .lst help or PCGen settings help...not sure which

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  • Andrew Maitland
    Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing) Admin Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin Unique Title Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey ... Well I m
    Message 1 of 35 , Feb 28, 2009
      Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
      Admin Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors
      Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
      Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"



      dloyer4 wrote:
      > 1st, I want to thank you very much for your help, I think I've learned
      > more, and understand more now than I would have just reading the docs.
      > Sometimes the best way to learn how something works is to break it and
      > then try fixing it :)
      >

      Well I'm glad you enjoyed class this past few days.
      > Now, let me paraphrase you and the docs to make sure I understand the
      > feat and skill tags, my understanding is also bundled with another
      > question I'll list below the paraphrase.
      >
      > FEAT adds a feat to a creature and costs one feat slot
      > VFEAT adds a 'virtual' feat to a creature without costing a feat slot.
      > It's used to add special feat-like abilities to a creature
      >

      In a KIT
      FEAT:Dodge

      Will purchase the Feat 'Dodge' for the 1 point in the pool. So, yes.

      VFEAT: Grants a 'feat' without requiring the PREREQs. Useful for classes
      such as Monk who are granted feats for being Monks, even if they
      wouldn't meet the prereqs normally. I shall note, VFEAT was used in the
      old days to grant special abilities. But that practice is discontinued
      since we have the ABILITY tag. For official releases, Feats are strictly
      in feat files, everything else, including abilities, are made in ability
      files.
      ABILITY:Special Ability|VIRTUAL - Grants abilities that the character
      might not meet prereqs.


      AUTO:FEAT - Grants a feat automatically. This is used for classes.
      Fighter is a prime example.
      ABILITY:Special Ability|AUTOMATIC - We use that to grant class abilities

      > SKILL:<skill name> <TAB> RANK:<X> <TAB> FREE:YES adds a skill without
      > costing skill points.
      >

      Correct.
      > This has brought up some questions for me, questions that might
      > actually belong in a forum on the game mechanics than here, if so, let
      > me know and I'll go look for one.
      >
      > Here goes.
      >
      > If there's a discrepancy between the game mechanics and a creature's
      > stat-block/description, how do you resolve it?
      >

      If the stat block and mechanics don't add up, then we stick with the
      publisher write-up, hence the reason for the "FREE:YES" tag.

      Though we do try and let the publisher know about the discrepancy, so
      they can either modify a later publishing, do an errata or ignore it.
      Whatever they choose to do. But our policy is to honor the writeup
      presented by the publisher.
      > Let's use the Displacer Beast as an example.
      >
      > As you said, it's a 6HD creature and therefore should have 3 feats.
      > But the description only lists 2. does that mean I can pick a third (I
      > can think of a couple that would work well...Track, Weapon Finesse
      > (Tentacle), etc.) Or does the creature in fact only have 2 If I decide to resolve that the creature only has 2, you're saying I can use
      > either BONUS:ABILITYPOOL|FEAT|-1 or STARTFEATS:-1 to remove the
      > offending 3rd feat.
      >

      Both serve the purpose, it's just how you want to get there. Obviously
      the second method is less verbose. However, in this case, both will
      work. But I'd note that STARTFEATS is only valid on a race line. For
      equipment, abilities, or classes, the first option is the only real option.
      > Now, what if the creature were a 1HD monster and would therefore only
      > have 1 feat, but again the description lists 2. Do I assume the description is wrong and remove one of the feats? If I decide the
      > creature has 2 feats, I can resolve this 2 ways. I can use the VFEAT
      > tag, which to my mind isn't really what the tag is for, the feat in
      > question isn't a virtual feat after all. Or I could use
      > BONUS:ABILITYPOOL|FEAT|1 or STARTFEATS:1
      >

      Ah, well you do need to read the description, does it have a 'b' listed
      next to a feat? That is a "bonus feat". In that case you'd use AUTO:FEAT
      in the race line to grant it. Often a publisher will forget to note a
      bonus feat. In that case, just select the likely bonus feat and grant it
      via AUTO:FEAT.
      > Now, what's the difference between the two methods? Why would I choose
      > one over the other?
      >

      The question boils down to simplicity. What will work the best and meets
      the expectations. IF the race in question starts with an extra feat,
      it's easier to use STARTFEATS, however, if a class in question grants an
      extra feat then use the BONUS tag.
      > Again, thanks for all the help,
      > Dennis
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Maitland
      > <drew0500@...> wrote:
      >
      >> Okay,
      >>
      >> I've discovered the error messages. Looks like we might have two
      >>
      > bugs.
      >
      >> I reviewed your files, they look fine, but remove the "FREE:YES"
      >>
      > from
      >
      >> the FEAT lines, that tag is valid for skills only.
      >>
      >> Displacer Beast is 6hd, so it should have three feats
      >> 1 at 1st level, 2 at 3rd and 3 and 6th. If you want one less feat
      >>
      > you
      >
      >> can either do
      >> BONUS:ABILITYPOOL|FEAT|-1
      >> or
      >> STARTFEATS:-1
      >>
      >>
      >> Bugs found and to be trackered
      >> 2649075 [Modern Gamemode] Stack Trace
      >> <https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?
      >>
      > func=detail&aid=2649075&group_id=25576&atid=384719>
      >
      >> I'm seeing for your displacer beast, 0/40, 1/1, 1/1, etc. Something
      >> funky going on there.
      >>
      >> Good news though, if you use the 35e gamemode, it works.
      >>
      >> Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
      >> Admin Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors
      >> Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
      >> Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> Andrew Maitland wrote:
      >>
      >>> How many feats should your beastie have?
      >>>
      >>> Look at how you coded it up - Last I saw you were granting two
      >>>
      > feats as
      >
      >>> virtual (don't cost any slots) and then telling it to purchase
      >>>
      > those
      >
      >>> feats in the kit and then you used a *FREE:YES* telling it to not
      >>>
      > deduct
      >
      >>> from the pool after the feats.
      >>>
      >>> If you remove any VFEAT in the race, then the feats should come
      >>>
      > out
      >
      >>> correctly.
      >>>
      >>> As to the skills not granting ranks...
      >>> Make sure the skill name is spelled correctly, and the ranks are
      >>>
      > adding up.
      >
      >>> Example:
      >>> SKILL:Climb <tab> RANK:4
      >>> SKILL:Hide <tab> RANK:3
      >>> SKILL:Knowledge (Arcana) <tab> RANK:3
      >>>
      >>> You should get a warning if you are trying to purchase more skill
      >>>
      > ranks
      >
      >>> then you possess.
      >>>
      >>> I'll see if I grab your latest uploads and test them.
      >>>
      >>> Silly question, but when you say loading your sets, are you
      >>>
      > loading a
      >
      >>> base set, like the msrd or something?
      >>>
      >>> And, are you seeing any error messages in the command window
      >>>
      > console?
      >
      >>> dloyer4 wrote:
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>> I'm still getting a similar result.
      >>>>
      >>>> I load my campaign (no other sources selected. Click on the New
      >>>> Character button, select Displacer Beast as the race and click on
      >>>>
      > the
      >
      >>>> Create Monster/Add Kit button and select the Displacer Beast
      >>>>
      > Default.
      >
      >>>> The summary page looks fine, the feats are populated, though
      >>>>
      > there's
      >
      >>>> still an extra slot that I ignore (any way to change that? some
      >>>>
      > way to
      >
      >>>> say this creature has X number of feats and no more?), but the
      >>>>
      > skills
      >
      >>>> are still only listed as class skills, they're not set to the
      >>>> appropriate rank. Do I have to manually purchase the skills?
      >>>>
      > Seems
      >
      >>>> like there should be a way to have that happen automatically?
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>> --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Maitland
      >>>> <drew0500@> wrote:
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>> Okay,
      >>>>>
      >>>>> Thanks for that report. I don't normally use GMGen, so I'm only
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>> going to
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>> offer a solution based on what I remember.
      >>>>>
      >>>>> Open PCGen, load your set, create the creature, (don't go into
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>> GMGen),
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>> apply the kit. Creature should look good? If yes, then save the
      >>>>>
      > pcg
      >
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>> file.
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>> Now, open GMGen, see if you can pull the pcg file for the
      >>>>>
      > creature
      >
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>> (I
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>> know it's possible, cause you load the party in that way).
      >>>>>
      >>>>> You should be good to go.
      >>>>>
      >>>>> GMGen, is a decent program/plugin, but it's fallen behind in
      >>>>>
      > code
      >
      >>>>> upgrades and maintenance. So the interfaces are always working
      >>>>>
      > as
      >
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>> we'd
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>> like. That is why I suggest you create the creatures first fully
      >>>>>
      > in
      >
      >>>>> PCGen before you open GMGen.
      >>>>>
      >>>>> (The Dice Bag is an awesome feature, made one convention with a
      >>>>>
      > lot
      >
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>> of
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>> dice needed for spells go by much quicker).
      >>>>>
      >>>>> Andrew Maitland (LegacyKing)
      >>>>> Admin Silverback, PCGen Board of Directors
      >>>>> Data Chimp, Docs Tamarin
      >>>>> Unique Title "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>> dloyer4 wrote:
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>> Sure, not a problem...
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>> Using ver 5.15.13
      >>>>>> I created my own .pcc to load the data for my campaign. I've
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>> uploaded
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>>> a copy of that file as well as the current custom kit.lst fil
      >>>>>>
      > and
      >
      >>>>>> race.lst file.
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>> 1. After launching PCGen, I select Dennis' D20 Modern Campaign
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>> and
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>>> click Load. No other source materials are selected.
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>> 2. PCGen finishes loading the source material, I click on the
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>> GMGen
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>>> button.
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>> 3. I select the Encounter tab and add the Displacer Beast to
      >>>>>>
      > the
      >
      >>>>>> encounter and click on Begin Combat
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>> 4. I get a pop-up telling me I will now be taken to PCGen to
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>> finalize
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>>> my selected combatants. I click on the OK button in the pop-up
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>> 5. I am returned to PCGen and the Displacer Beast is loaded. A
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>> quick
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>>> glance over the info in the Summary tab shows everything there
      >>>>>>
      > is
      >
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>> OK.
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>>> I click on the Feats tab and it shows the two default feats
      >>>>>>
      > have
      >
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>> been
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>>> loaded (with room for an additional feat, but the creature only
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>> has
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>>> two, so I ignore the extra slot), I click on the Skills tab and
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>> see
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>>> that the skills I specified have been listed as class skills,
      >>>>>>
      > but
      >
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>> when
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>>> I set the Include filter to None (which should only display
      >>>>>>
      > those
      >
      >>>>>> skill in which ranks have been taken) no skills are displayed
      >>>>>>
      > in
      >
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>> the
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>>> pane on the right side. If I set the filter to display all or
      >>>>>> untrained, the class skills do not show the proper totals.
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>> If I follow the above steps with any other creature, I get the
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>> same
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>>> results.
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>> I can provide info on preference settings if you'd like.
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>> Dennis
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>> --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Maitland
      >>>>>> <drew0500@> wrote:
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>> Hi Dennis,
      >>>>>>>
      >>>>>>> Both myself and the coder were not able to duplicate this
      >>>>>>>
      > issue.
      >
      >>>>>>> Can you give step-by-step directions on what you do to
      >>>>>>>
      > duplicate
      >
      >>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>
      >>>>>>>
      >>>>>> this?
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>> ------------------------------------
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>>>
      >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>>
      >>>> ------------------------------------
      >>>>
      >>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>> ------------------------------------
      >>>
      >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Eddy Anthony
      ... Opps, I totally posted the wrong link that last post, here is the tracker I meant to reference: [ 2670164 ] BONUS:LANG|BONUS|x ignores PRE tags
      Message 35 of 35 , Mar 6, 2009
        Eddy Anthony scribed:

        >>>> BONUS:LANG|BONUS|1|!PRETEMPLATE:Mute
        >>>
        >>> I found out that this idea doesn't work, this tag seems to ignore PRE tags.
        >>
        >> Please file a bug against that... it should work.

        Opps, I totally posted the wrong link that last post, here is the tracker I
        meant to reference:
        [ 2670164 ] BONUS:LANG|BONUS|x ignores PRE tags
        https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=384719&aid=2670164&group_i
        d=25576
        --
        ~ Eddy Anthony (MoSaT)
        ~ PCGen Board of Directors
        ~ Content Silverback, Chair Second
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