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Focus on certain types

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  • Michael W. Fender
    Before you start in on all this, I ask that the first be considered: I have made a Weapon Proficiency file that mods all the finesseable weapons by adding the
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 1, 2008
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      Before you start in on all this, I ask that the first be considered: I have
      made a Weapon Proficiency file that mods all the finesseable weapons by
      adding the 'Finesseable' type, such as:
      Dagger.MOD TYPE:Finesseable
      ...under the assumption that this is permissible.

      Considering the Weapon Focus feat uses Weapon Proficiencies, How would one
      force a selection or a PRExxx for certain types? For example, say I want to
      use only weapons that are piercing and finesseable, such as a dagger, short
      sword, or rapier, for a feat. It would seem that the appropriate tag would
      be:

      PREFEAT:1,Weapon Focus(TYPE.Piercing.Finesseable)

      But it doesn't work. At all. I can choose Dagger for my Weapon Focus, and I
      still can't get it to qualify. Using TYPE.Piercing and TYPE.Finesseable
      works by themselves or in a PREMULT tag, but they don't accomplish the job
      right. If I tried:

      PREMULT:2,[PREFEAT:1,Weapon Focus(TYPE.Finesseable)],[PREFEAT:1,Weapon
      Focus(TYPE.Piercing)]

      ...I can have Weapon Focus for a Trident (not a Finesseable weapon) and a
      Hammer (Light) (not a Piercing weapon) and qualify for the feat. Obviously
      not what should be. To complicate matters more, the chooser should end up
      looking like this:

      CHOOSE:FEAT=Weapon Focus(TYPE.Piercing.Finesseable)

      So, the problem is one of 4 things as far as I can guess.
      1: PCGen doesn't support Weapon Proficiencies being modded
      2: I'm typing something wrong
      3: PCGen can't use more than 1 TYPE reference at once
      4: Weapon Focus can't use more than 1 TYPE reference at once

      Any ideas/help?
      --
      Fluxxdog

      The worst crime you can commit against another human being is to make them
      think.
    • Tom Parker
      ... 5: Equipment/Weapon Proficiencies and TYPEs are all kinds of funky. 6: CHOOSE:FEAT= cannot take items in parens (only the base Ability name) TM, two
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 1, 2008
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        --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "Michael W. Fender"
        <fluxxdog@...> wrote:
        > So, the problem is one of 4 things as far as I can guess.
        > 1: PCGen doesn't support Weapon Proficiencies being modded
        > 2: I'm typing something wrong
        > 3: PCGen can't use more than 1 TYPE reference at once
        > 4: Weapon Focus can't use more than 1 TYPE reference at once

        5: Equipment/Weapon Proficiencies and TYPEs are all kinds of funky.
        6: CHOOSE:FEAT= cannot take items in parens (only the base Ability name)

        TM, two Trackers:

        Tracker #1; enhancement to CHOOSE:FEAT= to allow parens

        [soapbox]
        Weapon Proficiencies should not have a TYPE because it creates cases
        of ambiguity and programming problems.

        I fought the battle for Shield Profs & Armor Profs when they were
        created to avoid TYPE (you'll note SHIELDTYPE= and the like in
        AUTO:SHIELDPROF). I fought that one hard because TYPE in
        proficiencies creates some really ugly cases. A decent recap of the
        situation is here:
        http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/message/10315

        Perhaps this can be another piece of evidence that we really should
        fix the underlying problem with Weapon Profs...

        TM, tracker #2; we should at least have this documented even if it
        remains unresolved if it should be done
        [/soapbox]

        In effect, if you expect PCGen to work properly for Weapon
        Proficiencies, the TYPE on the Weapon Prof MUST always equal the TYPE
        on the Equipment. Did you mod the equipment?

        In this case, the TYPE inside the WeaponFocus, while technically the
        CHOOSE refers to a Weapon Prof, checks against the Equipment, so the
        Equipment needs to be modded as well.

        TP.
      • Michael W. Fender
        ... First, I ll try changing CHOOSE: to ADD: ... Why are there 2 different tags? Or is that on the way out? Second, does PREFEAT (or PRExxx) have the same
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 1, 2008
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          On Wednesday 01 October 2008 05:01:19 pm Tom Parker wrote:
          > --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "Michael W. Fender"
          >
          > <fluxxdog@...> wrote:
          > > So, the problem is one of 4 things as far as I can guess.
          > > 1: PCGen doesn't support Weapon Proficiencies being modded
          > > 2: I'm typing something wrong
          > > 3: PCGen can't use more than 1 TYPE reference at once
          > > 4: Weapon Focus can't use more than 1 TYPE reference at once
          >
          > 5: Equipment/Weapon Proficiencies and TYPEs are all kinds of funky.
          > 6: CHOOSE:FEAT= cannot take items in parens (only the base Ability name)
          >
          > TM, two Trackers:
          >
          > Tracker #1; enhancement to CHOOSE:FEAT= to allow parens

          First, I'll try changing CHOOSE: to ADD: ... Why are there 2 different tags?
          Or is that on the way out?

          Second, does PREFEAT (or PRExxx) have the same problem? Because I can't get
          the tag to qualify before I can even get to the chooser.

          > [soapbox]
          > Weapon Proficiencies should not have a TYPE because it creates cases
          > of ambiguity and programming problems.
          >
          > I fought the battle for Shield Profs & Armor Profs when they were
          > created to avoid TYPE (you'll note SHIELDTYPE= and the like in
          > AUTO:SHIELDPROF). I fought that one hard because TYPE in
          > proficiencies creates some really ugly cases. A decent recap of the
          > situation is here:
          > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/message/10315
          >
          > Perhaps this can be another piece of evidence that we really should
          > fix the underlying problem with Weapon Profs...

          You mean the fact they exist? Honestly, this is one of the things that's
          puzzled me. A proficiency is created when you add a natural weapon to a
          character, such as through a template. Why not equipment? To have a
          separate file for proficiencies seems not only redundant, but easier to
          break. That's just me though.

          > TM, tracker #2; we should at least have this documented even if it
          > remains unresolved if it should be done
          > [/soapbox]
          >
          > In effect, if you expect PCGen to work properly for Weapon
          > Proficiencies, the TYPE on the Weapon Prof MUST always equal the TYPE
          > on the Equipment. Did you mod the equipment?

          I have a WEAPONPROF file made specifically to add the Finessable type to those
          weapons that already had it in their EQUIPMENT file.

          > In this case, the TYPE inside the WeaponFocus, while technically the
          > CHOOSE refers to a Weapon Prof, checks against the Equipment, so the
          > Equipment needs to be modded as well.

          And since all the weapons referred to already have the Piercing and
          Finesseable types in their EQUIPMENT listing, this shouldn't be an issue. So
          that's one less problem I know I have :)

          --
          Fluxxdog

          The worst crime you can commit against another human being is to make them
          think.
        • Tom Parker
          ... different tags? ... Ability Foo uses ADD: Ability Bar uses CHOOSE: If you add Foo to a PC, then remove Foo, the PC will maintain whatever was granted by
          Message 4 of 7 , Oct 2, 2008
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            --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "Michael W. Fender"
            <fluxxdog@...> wrote:
            > First, I'll try changing CHOOSE: to ADD: ... Why are there 2
            different tags?
            > Or is that on the way out?

            Ability Foo uses ADD:
            Ability Bar uses CHOOSE:

            If you add Foo to a PC, then remove Foo, the PC will maintain whatever
            was granted by the ADD (Add is not symmetric)

            If you add Bar to a PC, then remove Bar, then whatever the CHOOSE did
            will disappear. Also, some CHOOSE tokens have an effect, others just
            create a choice and other tokens need to act on that choice (e.g.
            CSKILL:LIST)

            > Second, does PREFEAT (or PRExxx) have the same problem? Because I
            can't get
            > the tag to qualify before I can even get to the chooser.

            It didn't look like it when I read the code last night, but I'll have
            to run a test to make sure. Probably won't get to that until Friday.

            > You mean the fact they exist? Honestly, this is one of the things
            that's
            > puzzled me.

            To me, existence isn't the issue. The HANDS: data would have to find
            another home (and honestly it may be most appropriate to stay in the
            WeaponProf file). The other reason they should continue to exist even
            if TYPE was removed is Internationalization (act as an index for an
            internationalized display name)

            Having "implied" proficiencies to simplify user data sets is a future
            discussion point (dependent on the TYPE change, though)

            > And since all the weapons referred to already have the Piercing and
            > Finesseable types in their EQUIPMENT listing, this shouldn't be an
            issue. So
            > that's one less problem I know I have :)

            Ah, oops, I hadn't realized that. :)

            TP.
          • Martijn Verburg
            Hi all, ... https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2144066&group_id=25576&atid=384722 ...
            Message 5 of 7 , Oct 3, 2008
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              Hi all,

              > TM, two Trackers:
              >
              > Tracker #1; enhancement to CHOOSE:FEAT= to allow parens

              https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2144066&group_id=25576&atid=384722

              > [soapbox]
              > Weapon Proficiencies should not have a TYPE because it creates cases
              > of ambiguity and programming problems.
              >
              > I fought the battle for Shield Profs & Armor Profs when they were
              > created to avoid TYPE (you'll note SHIELDTYPE= and the like in
              > AUTO:SHIELDPROF). I fought that one hard because TYPE in
              > proficiencies creates some really ugly cases. A decent recap of the
              > situation is here:
              > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/pcgen_experimental/message/10315
              >
              > Perhaps this can be another piece of evidence that we really should
              > fix the underlying problem with Weapon Profs...
              >
              > TM, tracker #2; we should at least have this documented even if it
              > remains unresolved if it should be done
              > [/soapbox]

              https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2144071&group_id=25576&atid=384722

              K
            • Tom Parker
              ... You are correct, PREFEAT:1,Weapon Focus(TYPE.x.y) will fail TM, FREQ please TP.
              Message 6 of 7 , Oct 4, 2008
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                --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Parker" <thpr@...> wrote:
                > > Second, does PREFEAT (or PRExxx) have the same problem? Because I
                > can't get
                > > the tag to qualify before I can even get to the chooser.
                >
                > It didn't look like it when I read the code last night, but I'll have
                > to run a test to make sure. Probably won't get to that until Friday.

                You are correct, PREFEAT:1,Weapon Focus(TYPE.x.y) will fail

                TM, FREQ please

                TP.
              • Martijn Verburg
                Trackered https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2149158&group_id=25576&atid=384722
                Message 7 of 7 , Oct 6, 2008
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                  Trackered

                  https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2149158&group_id=25576&atid=384722

                  > --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Parker" <thpr@> wrote:
                  > > > Second, does PREFEAT (or PRExxx) have the same problem? Because I
                  > > can't get
                  > > > the tag to qualify before I can even get to the chooser.
                  > >
                  > > It didn't look like it when I read the code last night, but I'll have
                  > > to run a test to make sure. Probably won't get to that until Friday.
                  >
                  > You are correct, PREFEAT:1,Weapon Focus(TYPE.x.y) will fail
                  >
                  > TM, FREQ please
                  >
                  > TP.
                  >
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