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Re: [PCGenListFileHelp] Re: Alternate Spell System for 3.5 d20 RSRD

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  • Andrew Maitland
    ... Sometimes things are put in that weren t meant to be put in. Remember, the doc monkeys aren t the code monkeys, and some information doesn t come to light
    Message 1 of 16 , Oct 2, 2007
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      Felonius Stark wrote:
      > Guess the documentation needs to be updated, since the latest
      > information in the docs only says to use "ADD:SPELLLEVEL|" instead of
      > "ADD:SPELLLEVEL:", and that "ADD:SPELLLEVEL|" was new as of 5.11.11.
      > But I see the SPELLLEVEL: tag now. I'd that the advantage in this
      > case of putting them all in a single tag, specifying all the levels at
      > once is that it would allow a more clear connection within the spell
      > types that he's (it seems) using...
      >
      Sometimes things are put in that weren't meant to be put in. Remember,
      the doc monkeys aren't the code monkeys, and some information doesn't
      come to light until somebody mentions it. With that said, over on the
      _experimental group we are voting currently to remove the ADD:LEVEL
      stuff from the docs and any remnant in the code, as it appears to have
      never worked before. However, as with anything, we had to make sure it
      won't break anything existing. You should see changes to that within the
      next few weeks.
      > But that's just my thought on it...
      >
      > --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Maitland
      > <drew0500@...> wrote:
      >
      >> Don't use ADD:SPELLLEVEL, it doesn't work, hasn't worked, and is slated
      >> for a vote to remove it entirely. Instead, you need to use SPELLLEVEL.
      >>
      >> You can add multiple spell levels with the one tag, but it is cleaner to
      >> separate by level.
      >>
      >> Felonius Stark wrote:
      >>
      >>> I'd probably use ADD:SPELLLEVEL|<Classname>=<spelllevel>|<spellname>
      >>>
      >>> But that would take forever... Does anyone know if you specify more
      >>> than one spell level with this tag? The documentation is is a bit
      >>> bare on this tag...
      >>>
      >>> As was said before, I don't think there's a very clean way to solve
      >>> this problem.
      >>>
      >>> --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Ian Homeyard
      >>> <krensky2001@> wrote:
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>> --- joefrazierjr <jfrazierjr@> wrote:
      >>>>
      >>>> [SNIP]
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>> Am I barking up the wrong tree here in trying to use
      >>>>> the domains?
      >>>>> Should I be using custom abilities instead along
      >>>>> with preability?
      >>>>>
      >>>>>
      >>>> I think you are, since there's a big conceptual
      >>>> difference between domains and spell lists. The
      >>>> easiest way would probably be to treat each one either
      >>>> as a hidden feat or as a custom ability and when a
      >>>> caster gains new lists, give them a CHOOSE. Without
      >>>> thinking much (or being that familiar with the ability
      >>>> LST code) feats might work better as you could tag
      >>>> them according to the action and target to make things
      >>>> like mastery and the various real feats easier to
      >>>> code. Admittedly it's alot of typing, but I'm not
      >>>> sure how else to handle it smoothly.
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >> --
      >> -- Andrew Maitland
      >> Data Gibbon, Tracker Gibbon, Docs Lemur
      >> "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >

      --
      -- Andrew Maitland
      Data Gibbon, Tracker Gibbon, Docs Lemur
      "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Joe Frazier, Jr.
      ... Ok, after my original post, I spent quite a bit more time looking up the various tags. Now, without knowing the 3.5 rules on Psionic in intricate detail
      Message 2 of 16 , Oct 2, 2007
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        Andrew Maitland wrote:
        > Felonius Stark wrote:
        >
        >> Guess the documentation needs to be updated, since the latest
        >> information in the docs only says to use "ADD:SPELLLEVEL|" instead of
        >> "ADD:SPELLLEVEL:", and that "ADD:SPELLLEVEL|" was new as of 5.11.11.
        >> But I see the SPELLLEVEL: tag now. I'd that the advantage in this
        >> case of putting them all in a single tag, specifying all the levels at
        >> once is that it would allow a more clear connection within the spell
        >> types that he's (it seems) using...
        >>
        >>
        > Sometimes things are put in that weren't meant to be put in. Remember,
        > the doc monkeys aren't the code monkeys, and some information doesn't
        > come to light until somebody mentions it. With that said, over on the
        > _experimental group we are voting currently to remove the ADD:LEVEL
        > stuff from the docs and any remnant in the code, as it appears to have
        > never worked before. However, as with anything, we had to make sure it
        > won't break anything existing. You should see changes to that within the
        > next few weeks.
        >
        >> But that's just my thought on it...
        >>
        >> --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Maitland
        >> <drew0500@...> wrote:
        >>
        >>
        >>> Don't use ADD:SPELLLEVEL, it doesn't work, hasn't worked, and is slated
        >>> for a vote to remove it entirely. Instead, you need to use SPELLLEVEL.
        >>>
        >>> You can add multiple spell levels with the one tag, but it is cleaner to
        >>> separate by level.
        >>>
        >>> Felonius Stark wrote:
        >>>
        >>>
        >>>> I'd probably use ADD:SPELLLEVEL|<Classname>=<spelllevel>|<spellname>
        >>>>
        >>>> But that would take forever... Does anyone know if you specify more
        >>>> than one spell level with this tag? The documentation is is a bit
        >>>> bare on this tag...
        >>>>
        >>>> As was said before, I don't think there's a very clean way to solve
        >>>> this problem.
        >>>>
        >>>>
        >>>>

        Ok, after my original post, I spent quite a bit more time looking up the
        various tags. Now, without knowing the 3.5 rules on Psionic in
        intricate detail (last rules I had was for 2x), I think I will end up
        using the psionics rules. Since I have both and action type and a
        further subdivision, will use School and subschool on the spell side,
        PPCOST (though it is documented, I could not find a single use in the
        RSRD) to track the cost of each spell, and abilities to track which
        lists to which someone has access. In the spell lst file, I can then
        use PREABILITY to make sure that the user has access to said spell list
        prior to allowing them to put that spell into their known spells list.

        The only thing I am not sure about is the whole spelllevel tags since
        the whole point of a Magic point system is that spells DON'T have levels
        in the traditional sense. I was thinking of just putting everything
        into level 0 and give unlimited access to level 0 IF this is even
        required to get it to work. I guess technically, you could say that
        the MP cost is the same as the spell level(effectively giving x spell
        levels where x is the maximum caster level available, 20 in most
        campaigns), but again, there is no "you can cast 2 1st level spells per
        day" stuff to deal with.

        I think I am going to try this tonight and see how it plays out unless
        someone has any gotchas off the top of their head.

        thanks,
        Joe






        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • joefrazierjr
        ... the ... list. ... levels ... Ok, well, that did not work as I was expecting. I even tried copying an existing psionic spell into my custom spell lst and
        Message 3 of 16 , Oct 3, 2007
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          > Ok, after my original post, I spent quite a bit more time looking up
          the
          > various tags. Now, without knowing the 3.5 rules on Psionic in
          > intricate detail (last rules I had was for 2x), I think I will end up
          > using the psionics rules. Since I have both and action type and a
          > further subdivision, will use School and subschool on the spell side,
          > PPCOST (though it is documented, I could not find a single use in the
          > RSRD) to track the cost of each spell, and abilities to track which
          > lists to which someone has access. In the spell lst file, I can then
          > use PREABILITY to make sure that the user has access to said spell list
          > prior to allowing them to put that spell into their known spells
          list.
          >
          > The only thing I am not sure about is the whole spelllevel tags since
          > the whole point of a Magic point system is that spells DON'T have
          levels
          > in the traditional sense. I was thinking of just putting everything
          > into level 0 and give unlimited access to level 0 IF this is even
          > required to get it to work. I guess technically, you could say that
          > the MP cost is the same as the spell level(effectively giving x spell
          > levels where x is the maximum caster level available, 20 in most
          > campaigns), but again, there is no "you can cast 2 1st level spells per
          > day" stuff to deal with.
          >
          > I think I am going to try this tonight and see how it plays out unless
          > someone has any gotchas off the top of their head.
          >
          > thanks,
          > Joe
          >


          Ok, well, that did not work as I was expecting. I even tried copying
          an existing psionic spell into my custom spell lst and nothing shows
          up under the spells to choose from when I add my class level. Added the
          1<tab>KNOWN:20
          to the class level lines, but nothing worked. I even went so far as
          to make a copy of one of the existing psionic classes and change the
          name and choose that. Still no spells. Any pointers ?
        • Andrew Maitland
          Does the class have a spell stat?? Does the class have a CAST tag in the level lines? ... -- -- Andrew Maitland Data Gibbon, Tracker Gibbon, Docs Lemur
          Message 4 of 16 , Oct 3, 2007
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            Does the class have a spell stat??

            Does the class have a CAST tag in the level lines?

            joefrazierjr wrote:
            >> Ok, after my original post, I spent quite a bit more time looking up
            >>
            > the
            >
            >> various tags. Now, without knowing the 3.5 rules on Psionic in
            >> intricate detail (last rules I had was for 2x), I think I will end up
            >> using the psionics rules. Since I have both and action type and a
            >> further subdivision, will use School and subschool on the spell side,
            >> PPCOST (though it is documented, I could not find a single use in the
            >> RSRD) to track the cost of each spell, and abilities to track which
            >> lists to which someone has access. In the spell lst file, I can then
            >> use PREABILITY to make sure that the user has access to said spell list
            >> prior to allowing them to put that spell into their known spells
            >>
            > list.
            >
            >> The only thing I am not sure about is the whole spelllevel tags since
            >> the whole point of a Magic point system is that spells DON'T have
            >>
            > levels
            >
            >> in the traditional sense. I was thinking of just putting everything
            >> into level 0 and give unlimited access to level 0 IF this is even
            >> required to get it to work. I guess technically, you could say that
            >> the MP cost is the same as the spell level(effectively giving x spell
            >> levels where x is the maximum caster level available, 20 in most
            >> campaigns), but again, there is no "you can cast 2 1st level spells per
            >> day" stuff to deal with.
            >>
            >> I think I am going to try this tonight and see how it plays out unless
            >> someone has any gotchas off the top of their head.
            >>
            >> thanks,
            >> Joe
            >>
            >>
            >
            >
            > Ok, well, that did not work as I was expecting. I even tried copying
            > an existing psionic spell into my custom spell lst and nothing shows
            > up under the spells to choose from when I add my class level. Added the
            > 1<tab>KNOWN:20
            > to the class level lines, but nothing worked. I even went so far as
            > to make a copy of one of the existing psionic classes and change the
            > name and choose that. Still no spells. Any pointers ?
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >

            --
            -- Andrew Maitland
            Data Gibbon, Tracker Gibbon, Docs Lemur
            "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Joe Frazier, Jr.
            ... Yes ... No, but I added it real quick, and no dice... Joe
            Message 5 of 16 , Oct 3, 2007
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              Andrew Maitland wrote:
              > Does the class have a spell stat??
              >
              >
              Yes


              > Does the class have a CAST tag in the level lines?
              >
              >

              No, but I added it real quick, and no dice...

              Joe
            • joefrazierjr
              ... For that matter, since I was looking at using Psionics,I checked the PRE tags real quick and did not find any documented PREPPCOST. Is this a doc bug or
              Message 6 of 16 , Oct 3, 2007
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                --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Frazier, Jr."
                <jfrazierjr@...> wrote:
                >
                > Andrew Maitland wrote:
                > > Does the class have a spell stat??
                > >
                > >
                > Yes
                >
                >
                > > Does the class have a CAST tag in the level lines?
                > >
                > >
                >
                > No, but I added it real quick, and no dice...
                >
                > Joe
                >

                For that matter, since I was looking at using Psionics,I checked the
                PRE tags real quick and did not find any documented PREPPCOST. Is
                this a doc bug or is it just missing from the application?


                Joe
              • Andrew Maitland
                In order for a class that uses spells to access spells it must meet one of the following criteria: 1) Have a spell that lists it as part of the class spell
                Message 7 of 16 , Oct 3, 2007
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                  In order for a class that uses spells to access spells it must meet one
                  of the following criteria:
                  1) Have a spell that lists it as part of the class spell list
                  (CLASSES:MyCasterClass=1)
                  2) It must be told to use a certain classes spell list
                  (SPELLLIST:1|MyChoice|Cleric|ALL)
                  3) It must build upon a casting class (PrCs do this alot using
                  ADD:CASTERLEVEL|ANY)

                  You also need to give it a CASTERLEVEL tag otherwise you'll get zip as a
                  0th level caster.

                  For your custom spells, it might help to just make the 'Spell' reference
                  the class WHICH MUST MATCH exactly. Remember the 1st lesson, spelling
                  matters.

                  Sorry, my brain is fried from running some intense calls today.

                  As to lack of Docs... Ugg.. ook. I wasn't aware of the lack thereof. I'd
                  ask Tir about it's function, but I don't think it will help with your plans.

                  joefrazierjr wrote:
                  > --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Frazier, Jr."
                  > <jfrazierjr@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >> Andrew Maitland wrote:
                  >>
                  >>> Does the class have a spell stat??
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >> Yes
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>> Does the class have a CAST tag in the level lines?
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >>>
                  >> No, but I added it real quick, and no dice...
                  >>
                  >> Joe
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  > For that matter, since I was looking at using Psionics,I checked the
                  > PRE tags real quick and did not find any documented PREPPCOST. Is
                  > this a doc bug or is it just missing from the application?
                  >
                  >
                  > Joe
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  --
                  -- Andrew Maitland
                  Data Gibbon, Tracker Gibbon, Docs Lemur
                  "Quick-Silverback Tracker Monkey"



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Joe Frazier, Jr.
                  ... using CLASSES:ALL=1 ... Don t want to limit it this way, but I may try this for troubleshooting reasons. ... 1 BONUS:CASTERLEVEL|EOM Mage|CL ... Again,
                  Message 8 of 16 , Oct 3, 2007
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                    Andrew Maitland wrote:
                    > In order for a class that uses spells to access spells it must meet one
                    > of the following criteria:
                    > 1) Have a spell that lists it as part of the class spell list
                    > (CLASSES:MyCasterClass=1)
                    >

                    using CLASSES:ALL=1

                    > 2) It must be told to use a certain classes spell list
                    > (SPELLLIST:1|MyChoice|Cleric|ALL)
                    >
                    Don't want to limit it this way, but I may try this for troubleshooting
                    reasons.
                    > 3) It must build upon a casting class (PrCs do this alot using
                    > ADD:CASTERLEVEL|ANY)
                    >
                    ???? Not sure what this means.
                    > You also need to give it a CASTERLEVEL tag otherwise you'll get zip as a
                    > 0th level caster.
                    >
                    1 BONUS:CASTERLEVEL|EOM Mage|CL
                    > For your custom spells, it might help to just make the 'Spell' reference
                    > the class WHICH MUST MATCH exactly. Remember the 1st lesson, spelling
                    > matters.
                    >
                    Again, I don't want to limit it this way unless I absolutely have to,
                    but I will try this also. However, I would hope that the ALL tag should
                    work.
                    > Sorry, my brain is fried from running some intense calls today.
                    >
                    > As to lack of Docs... Ugg.. ook. I wasn't aware of the lack thereof. I'd
                    > ask Tir about it's function, but I don't think it will help with your plans.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Tir Gwaith
                    ... PREPPCOST doesn t make any sense. PPCOST is the cost for casting the spell, which is defined in the spell. What are you trying to do? -- Tir Gwaith PCGen
                    Message 9 of 16 , Oct 4, 2007
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                      > As to lack of Docs... Ugg.. ook. I wasn't aware of the lack thereof. I'd
                      > ask Tir about it's function, but I don't think it will help with your plans.

                      > > For that matter, since I was looking at using Psionics,I checked the
                      > > PRE tags real quick and did not find any documented PREPPCOST. Is
                      > > this a doc bug or is it just missing from the application?

                      PREPPCOST doesn't make any sense. PPCOST is the cost for casting the
                      spell, which is defined in the spell.

                      What are you trying to do?

                      --
                      Tir Gwaith
                      PCGen LST Chimp
                    • Joe Frazier, Jr.
                      ... Honestly Tir, I have no idea what I was thinking at the time. I guess my brain is fried at this point. I know I had something in my mind as to why I
                      Message 10 of 16 , Oct 4, 2007
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                        Tir Gwaith wrote:
                        >> As to lack of Docs... Ugg.. ook. I wasn't aware of the lack thereof. I'd
                        >> ask Tir about it's function, but I don't think it will help with your plans.
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        >>> For that matter, since I was looking at using Psionics,I checked the
                        >>> PRE tags real quick and did not find any documented PREPPCOST. Is
                        >>> this a doc bug or is it just missing from the application?
                        >>>
                        >
                        > PREPPCOST doesn't make any sense. PPCOST is the cost for casting the
                        > spell, which is defined in the spell.
                        >
                        > What are you trying to do?
                        >
                        >
                        Honestly Tir, I have no idea what I was thinking at the time. I guess
                        my brain is fried at this point. I know I had "something" in my mind as
                        to why I wanted it, but right now, I just can't think of what it is.
                        I guess that's what I get for posting after being up for 18 hours.


                        Joe
                      • joefrazierjr
                        ... meet one ... zip as a ... reference ... should ... thereof. I d ... your plans. ... Success!!! Stupid missing comment. My class file was missing a
                        Message 11 of 16 , Oct 4, 2007
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                          --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Frazier, Jr."
                          <jfrazierjr@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Andrew Maitland wrote:
                          > > In order for a class that uses spells to access spells it must
                          meet one
                          > > of the following criteria:
                          > > 1) Have a spell that lists it as part of the class spell list
                          > > (CLASSES:MyCasterClass=1)
                          > >
                          >
                          > using CLASSES:ALL=1
                          >
                          > > 2) It must be told to use a certain classes spell list
                          > > (SPELLLIST:1|MyChoice|Cleric|ALL)
                          > >
                          > Don't want to limit it this way, but I may try this for troubleshooting
                          > reasons.
                          > > 3) It must build upon a casting class (PrCs do this alot using
                          > > ADD:CASTERLEVEL|ANY)
                          > >
                          > ???? Not sure what this means.
                          > > You also need to give it a CASTERLEVEL tag otherwise you'll get
                          zip as a
                          > > 0th level caster.
                          > >
                          > 1 BONUS:CASTERLEVEL|EOM Mage|CL
                          > > For your custom spells, it might help to just make the 'Spell'
                          reference
                          > > the class WHICH MUST MATCH exactly. Remember the 1st lesson, spelling
                          > > matters.
                          > >
                          > Again, I don't want to limit it this way unless I absolutely have to,
                          > but I will try this also. However, I would hope that the ALL tag
                          should
                          > work.
                          > > Sorry, my brain is fried from running some intense calls today.
                          > >
                          > > As to lack of Docs... Ugg.. ook. I wasn't aware of the lack
                          thereof. I'd
                          > > ask Tir about it's function, but I don't think it will help with
                          your plans.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >

                          Success!!! Stupid missing comment. My class file was missing a
                          comment character. I entered that and it now shows!!!

                          On with the show.
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