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Very unusual request

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  • mattdt0
    Ok, My DM has decided to change how starting skills are done, since the current method of applying starting skills makes it so much more advantages to
    Message 1 of 25 , May 28 3:01 PM
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      Ok,
      My DM has decided to change how starting skills are done, since the
      current method of applying starting skills makes it so much more
      advantages to multiclass as a skill class as opposed to a non-skilled
      class at first level. (For example, Going Favored Soul--> Ranger
      results in only 16 skill points at 2nd level (assuming 10 Int),
      whereas going Ranger --> Favored Soul results in 34 skill points at
      2nd level, for a character that with the same stats, should be the
      same).

      His solution is rather novel, but I'm not sure how I could implement
      it (or even override PCGen to make it at least display skills
      correctly). Any help would be appreciated.

      DM Solution :
      Before adding a class level, perform the following calculations :
      (Str Mod * 4) if Str Mod > 0, or (4 + Str Mod) if Str Mod 0 or less
      (Dex Mod * 4) if Dex Mod > 0, or (4 + Dex Mod) if Dex Mod 0 or less
      ...
      (Cha Mod * 4) if Cha Mod > 0, or (4 + Cha Mod) if Cha Mod 0 or less

      Then,
      You may put those skill points into skills that are associated with
      the stat as if class skills (So, if I had a STR Mod of +4, I'd have 12
      skill points to put into STR based skills), with a max of 3 ranks (0
      level char + 3).
      Then, when the character hits 1st level, they only get the skills
      for first in there class they would get at subsequent levels (8 + Int
      Mod for a Rogue, 2 + Int Mod for a fighter, etc).

      This would result in the character having more skill points at 1st
      level, regardless of class, but most of them would 3 ranks or lower.
      But, it would result in the abovementioned character having the same #
      of skill points at second level regardless of buildpath (Favored Soul
      --> Ranger or Ranger --> Favored Soul).

      So, now that I've explained it, how do I get the program to do it?
      Alternately, if it's going to be REALLY complex, is there a way to
      'override' skill points at 1st level and let the person put in
      whatever skill points they want (thus putting in 6 pts to get 3 ranks
      in 'cross-class' skills)?

      My initial idea for how to do this was like this :
      Create 6 One Level only classes.
      Apply a -1 Level on each at 1st level (making them 0 again).
      Assign their skill points per level as 0.
      Give Bonus Skill points equal to the formula above.
      Grant them class skills for each stat (Climb, Jump, Swim for Str, for
      example).
      Then apply all 6 'classes' to the starting character and spend skill
      points.

      The problem I have with that is I don't know if it will work, and it's
      a lot of work to build even one to test it. SO I'm hoping someone
      with more experience will know if it will work. Additionally, I don't
      know how to override the starting skill points when you actually do
      add a first level of an actual class (Like Rogue, etc).

      Any ideas?

      MDT
    • Andrew Maitland
      Hm, Ideas and theories, yes, solid ideas, no.. I ll tackle one theory and let others chime in with theirs... [Note: it s late and this will by NO means be
      Message 2 of 25 , May 29 2:01 AM
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        Hm, Ideas and theories, yes, solid ideas, no..

        I'll tackle one theory and let others chime in with theirs... [Note:
        it's late and this will by NO means be complete or sound. Hopefully Tir,
        or Barak or one of the knowledgeable monkeys will chime in with a much
        more eloquent and simple solution]

        GAMEMODE > miscinfo > SKILLMULTIPLIER
        Change it to 1 from 4

        Now with the game mode you can add any class and they just get the base
        skill points. HOWEVER, do the TEMPLATE FIRST!

        I'm thinking a TEMPLATE with variables will be the next logical step.


        TEMPLATE =
        I'm not a code but it looks like your variables will require 'if' and
        jep code.

        Something like:
        DEFINE:StartingSkillPointsCustom|0
        BONUS:VAR|StartingSkillPointsCustom|STR*4|PRESTAT:1,STR=13
        BONUS:VAR|StartingSkillPointsCustom|4|!PRESTAT:1,STR=13
        etc for each STAT Mod.

        Then the final steps:
        |BONUS:SKILLPOINTS|NUMBER|var"(StartingSkillPointsCustom)"|PRELEVELMAX:1

        THEN you'll need to counteract the skill point the class WOULD normally
        gain...

        ||BONUS:SKILLPOINTS|NUMBER|<insert the points the class normally gets
        with a NEGATIVE modifier>|PREMULT:2,[PRECLASS:1,<insert
        class=1],[PRELEVELMAX:1]
        repeat for each and every class...
        ||

        Like I said, this is ONLY theory, I've not tested it.

        Good luck and Cheers
        Andrew
        TM
        |
        mattdt0 wrote:
        > Ok,
        > My DM has decided to change how starting skills are done, since the
        > current method of applying starting skills makes it so much more
        > advantages to multiclass as a skill class as opposed to a non-skilled
        > class at first level. (For example, Going Favored Soul--> Ranger
        > results in only 16 skill points at 2nd level (assuming 10 Int),
        > whereas going Ranger --> Favored Soul results in 34 skill points at
        > 2nd level, for a character that with the same stats, should be the
        > same).
        >
        > His solution is rather novel, but I'm not sure how I could implement
        > it (or even override PCGen to make it at least display skills
        > correctly). Any help would be appreciated.
        >
        > DM Solution :
        > Before adding a class level, perform the following calculations :
        > (Str Mod * 4) if Str Mod > 0, or (4 + Str Mod) if Str Mod 0 or less
        > (Dex Mod * 4) if Dex Mod > 0, or (4 + Dex Mod) if Dex Mod 0 or less
        > ...
        > (Cha Mod * 4) if Cha Mod > 0, or (4 + Cha Mod) if Cha Mod 0 or less
        >
        > Then,
        > You may put those skill points into skills that are associated with
        > the stat as if class skills (So, if I had a STR Mod of +4, I'd have 12
        > skill points to put into STR based skills), with a max of 3 ranks (0
        > level char + 3).
        > Then, when the character hits 1st level, they only get the skills
        > for first in there class they would get at subsequent levels (8 + Int
        > Mod for a Rogue, 2 + Int Mod for a fighter, etc).
        >
        > This would result in the character having more skill points at 1st
        > level, regardless of class, but most of them would 3 ranks or lower.
        > But, it would result in the abovementioned character having the same #
        > of skill points at second level regardless of buildpath (Favored Soul
        > --> Ranger or Ranger --> Favored Soul).
        >
        > So, now that I've explained it, how do I get the program to do it?
        > Alternately, if it's going to be REALLY complex, is there a way to
        > 'override' skill points at 1st level and let the person put in
        > whatever skill points they want (thus putting in 6 pts to get 3 ranks
        > in 'cross-class' skills)?
        >
        > My initial idea for how to do this was like this :
        > Create 6 One Level only classes.
        > Apply a -1 Level on each at 1st level (making them 0 again).
        > Assign their skill points per level as 0.
        > Give Bonus Skill points equal to the formula above.
        > Grant them class skills for each stat (Climb, Jump, Swim for Str, for
        > example).
        > Then apply all 6 'classes' to the starting character and spend skill
        > points.
        >
        > The problem I have with that is I don't know if it will work, and it's
        > a lot of work to build even one to test it. SO I'm hoping someone
        > with more experience will know if it will work. Additionally, I don't
        > know how to override the starting skill points when you actually do
        > add a first level of an actual class (Like Rogue, etc).
        >
        > Any ideas?
        >
        > MDT
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • discnerd
        You can simplify a tad by using min(4*STR, 4+STR) or the like for each stat. I m not sure how to do the restriction on number of skills for each stat
        Message 3 of 25 , May 29 11:45 AM
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          You can simplify a tad by using min(4*STR, 4+STR) or the like for
          each stat. I'm not sure how to do the restriction on number of skills
          for each stat something like

          CHOOSE:SKILLSNAMED|TYPE=Strength|1 <tab> BONUS:SKILLRANK|LIST|1

          might work, but I'm not sure the SKILLRANK|LIST exists. But if it
          doesn't a FREQ might be worthwhile

          As a side note the first example for BONUS:SKILL|LIST|x seems to be
          missing something to restrict to just Strength based skills.

          I hope that helps.


          --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Maitland
          <drew0500@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hm, Ideas and theories, yes, solid ideas, no..
          >
          > I'll tackle one theory and let others chime in with theirs... [Note:
          > it's late and this will by NO means be complete or sound. Hopefully Tir,
          > or Barak or one of the knowledgeable monkeys will chime in with a much
          > more eloquent and simple solution]
          >
          > GAMEMODE > miscinfo > SKILLMULTIPLIER
          > Change it to 1 from 4
          >
          > Now with the game mode you can add any class and they just get the base
          > skill points. HOWEVER, do the TEMPLATE FIRST!
          >
          > I'm thinking a TEMPLATE with variables will be the next logical step.
          >
          >
          > TEMPLATE =
          > I'm not a code but it looks like your variables will require 'if' and
          > jep code.
          >
          > Something like:
          > DEFINE:StartingSkillPointsCustom|0
          > BONUS:VAR|StartingSkillPointsCustom|STR*4|PRESTAT:1,STR=13
          > BONUS:VAR|StartingSkillPointsCustom|4|!PRESTAT:1,STR=13
          > etc for each STAT Mod.
          >
          > Then the final steps:
          > |B
          > Like I said, this is ONLY theory, I've not tested it.
          >
          > Good luck and Cheers
          > Andrew
          > TM
          > |
          > mattdt0 wrote:

          > > DM Solution :
          > > Before adding a class level, perform the following calculations :
          > > (Str Mod * 4) if Str Mod > 0, or (4 + Str Mod) if Str Mod 0 or less
          > > (Dex Mod * 4) if Dex Mod > 0, or (4 + Dex Mod) if Dex Mod 0 or less
          > > ...
          > > (Cha Mod * 4) if Cha Mod > 0, or (4 + Cha Mod) if Cha Mod 0 or less
          > >
          > > Then,
          > > You may put those skill points into skills that are associated with
          > > the stat as if class skills (So, if I had a STR Mod of +4, I'd have 12
          > > skill points to put into STR based skills), with a max of 3 ranks (0
          > > level char + 3).
          > > Then, when the character hits 1st level, they only get the skills
          > > for first in there class they would get at subsequent levels (8 +
          > > Any ideas?
          > >
          > > MDT
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • mattdt0
          ... Ok, dumb question. But where would this be defined? I m getting good at modifying list files, but this looks like a configuration file of some kind. MDT
          Message 4 of 25 , May 29 6:21 PM
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            --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Maitland
            <drew0500@...> wrote:
            >I'll tackle one theory and let others chime in with theirs... [Note:
            >it's late and this will by NO means be complete or sound. Hopefully
            >Tir, or Barak or one of the knowledgeable monkeys will chime in with a
            >much more eloquent and simple solution]
            >
            >GAMEMODE > miscinfo > SKILLMULTIPLIER
            >Change it to 1 from 4
            >
            >Now with the game mode you can add any class and they just get the base
            >skill points. HOWEVER, do the TEMPLATE FIRST!

            Ok, dumb question. But where would this be defined? I'm getting good
            at modifying list files, but this looks like a configuration file of
            some kind.

            MDT
          • Tir Gwaith
            ... Several Points: -- Do NOT mix PRELEVELMAX and BONUS:SKILLPOINTS|NUMBER, since it results in double negative and some very bad exceptions in the code.
            Message 5 of 25 , May 30 12:40 PM
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              On 5/29/07, Andrew Maitland <drew0500@...> wrote:
              > Hm, Ideas and theories, yes, solid ideas, no..
              >
              > I'll tackle one theory and let others chime in with theirs... [Note:
              > it's late and this will by NO means be complete or sound. Hopefully Tir,
              > or Barak or one of the knowledgeable monkeys will chime in with a much
              > more eloquent and simple solution]
              >
              > GAMEMODE > miscinfo > SKILLMULTIPLIER
              > Change it to 1 from 4
              >
              > Now with the game mode you can add any class and they just get the base
              > skill points. HOWEVER, do the TEMPLATE FIRST!
              >
              > I'm thinking a TEMPLATE with variables will be the next logical step.
              >
              >
              > TEMPLATE =
              > I'm not a code but it looks like your variables will require 'if' and
              > jep code.
              >
              > Something like:
              > DEFINE:StartingSkillPointsCustom|0
              > BONUS:VAR|StartingSkillPointsCustom|STR*4|PRESTAT:1,STR=13
              > BONUS:VAR|StartingSkillPointsCustom|4|!PRESTAT:1,STR=13
              > etc for each STAT Mod.
              >
              > Then the final steps:
              > |BONUS:SKILLPOINTS|NUMBER|var"(StartingSkillPointsCustom)"|PRELEVELMAX:1

              Several Points:
              -- Do NOT mix PRELEVELMAX and BONUS:SKILLPOINTS|NUMBER, since it
              results in double negative and some very bad exceptions in the code.
              Remember, this will be re-evaluated every level. So it will work at
              first level, and once the character has 2 levels, those points will be
              taken away (and then have spent skillpoints that he didn't receive the
              point pool for anymore.)
              -- BONUS:SKILLPOINTS|NUMBER will add to skill points every level. You
              need BONUS:SKILLPOOL for this to work correctly (which in turn needs
              an exact class name.)
              -- The reference would be var("StartingSkillPointsCustom") - note the
              inversion to ("") from "()"


              Didn't really follow the rest.

              I think using 6 classes (one for each stat) W/O TYPE:PC will result in
              PCGen looking at the character as still first level. It gets a bit
              tricky. Doing the six classes, with STARTSKILLPTS:<formula>, and HD:1
              (BONUS:HP|CURRENTMAX|(-1-CON) to counteract the HP) will work. I
              don't know what it will do to the Skill point max though - might be
              off.

              --
              Tir Gwaith
              PCGen LST Chimp
            • mattdt0
              ... Actually, the BONUS:SKILLPOOL| works fine as is, provided it s in a CLASS declaration line. Thanks for the help though as I wouldn t have
              Message 6 of 25 , May 30 10:26 PM
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                --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Tir Gwaith wrote:
                > Several Points:
                > -- Do NOT mix PRELEVELMAX and BONUS:SKILLPOINTS|NUMBER, since it
                > results in double negative and some very bad exceptions in the code.
                > Remember, this will be re-evaluated every level. So it will work at
                > first level, and once the character has 2 levels, those points will
                > be taken away (and then have spent skillpoints that he didn't
                > receive the point pool for anymore.)
                > -- BONUS:SKILLPOINTS|NUMBER will add to skill points every level.
                > You need BONUS:SKILLPOOL for this to work correctly (which in turn
                > needs an exact class name.)
                > -- The reference would be var("StartingSkillPointsCustom") - note
                > the inversion to ("") from "()"

                Actually, the 'BONUS:SKILLPOOL|<formula>' works fine as is, provided
                it's in a CLASS declaration line. Thanks for the help though as I
                wouldn't have realized I needed SKILLPOOL otherwise.

                > Didn't really follow the rest.

                I guess I didn't do a good job of explaining.

                > I think using 6 classes (one for each stat) W/O TYPE:PC will result
                > in PCGen looking at the character as still first level. It gets a
                > bit tricky. Doing the six classes, with STARTSKILLPTS:<formula>,
                > and HD:1
                > (BONUS:HP|CURRENTMAX|(-1-CON) to counteract the HP) will work. I
                > don't know what it will do to the Skill point max though - might be
                > off.

                It got very tricky alright. I started out with 'HD:0', which worked
                fine as long as there was no CON mod. However, as soon as there was a
                con modifier, it didn't work. I did the 'BONUS:HP|CURRENTMAX|(-CON)',
                but that didn't work (kept going -HP for some reason). However, using
                your example of HD:1 and (-1-CON) worked fine (except for the first
                level, that wierded out and went to 4, but the next level I added
                reset it to 0 and it worked fine from then on). Oh, and removing the
                TYPE:PC didn't do anything.

                I've uploaded a zip with my class and template files, if you're curious.

                I also had to copy the 35e gameModes directory and rename it as
                35e_Blah, and then change the display name in the MiscInfo file, and
                set the first-level multiplier to 1. However, that seems to have
                fixed it all up perfectly.

                The only things I haven't fixed, and they are minor, is :

                1) Max Ranks are 9 (bleh).
                2) I've got 6 LV-0 abbreviations in classes on PDF. :)
                3) Attribute Points given after four levels (think that's probably in
                the GameMode files). Needs to be adjusted to first at 10 and each 4
                thereafter.
                4) Have to find a way to set the max levels to 26 now. :)
                5) Feats keep getting generated, and given out with 2 extra at the end
                of the process. I can just type in a new number on the feat page, but
                I'm sure I can configure it to be 'start at 9, and add 1 every 3'
                somewhere. I just need to fidn where.

                Thanks for all the help everyone,
                This looks like it can work (even if it's a bit kludgy).

                MDT
              • Tir Gwaith
                ... Might try VISIBLE:GUI, and/or no ABB tag in the CLASS definitions. One of those should prevent the display on your PDF (hopefully). ... Removing TYPE:PC
                Message 7 of 25 , May 31 9:42 AM
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                  On 5/30/07, mattdt0 <mattdt0@...> wrote:
                  > --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Tir Gwaith wrote:
                  > > Several Points:
                  > > -- Do NOT mix PRELEVELMAX and BONUS:SKILLPOINTS|NUMBER, since it
                  > > results in double negative and some very bad exceptions in the code.
                  > > Remember, this will be re-evaluated every level. So it will work at
                  > > first level, and once the character has 2 levels, those points will
                  > > be taken away (and then have spent skillpoints that he didn't
                  > > receive the point pool for anymore.)
                  > > -- BONUS:SKILLPOINTS|NUMBER will add to skill points every level.
                  > > You need BONUS:SKILLPOOL for this to work correctly (which in turn
                  > > needs an exact class name.)
                  > > -- The reference would be var("StartingSkillPointsCustom") - note
                  > > the inversion to ("") from "()"
                  >
                  > Actually, the 'BONUS:SKILLPOOL|<formula>' works fine as is, provided
                  > it's in a CLASS declaration line. Thanks for the help though as I
                  > wouldn't have realized I needed SKILLPOOL otherwise.
                  >
                  > > Didn't really follow the rest.
                  >
                  > I guess I didn't do a good job of explaining.
                  >
                  > > I think using 6 classes (one for each stat) W/O TYPE:PC will result
                  > > in PCGen looking at the character as still first level. It gets a
                  > > bit tricky. Doing the six classes, with STARTSKILLPTS:<formula>,
                  > > and HD:1
                  > > (BONUS:HP|CURRENTMAX|(-1-CON) to counteract the HP) will work. I
                  > > don't know what it will do to the Skill point max though - might be
                  > > off.
                  >
                  > It got very tricky alright. I started out with 'HD:0', which worked
                  > fine as long as there was no CON mod. However, as soon as there was a
                  > con modifier, it didn't work. I did the 'BONUS:HP|CURRENTMAX|(-CON)',
                  > but that didn't work (kept going -HP for some reason). However, using
                  > your example of HD:1 and (-1-CON) worked fine (except for the first
                  > level, that wierded out and went to 4, but the next level I added
                  > reset it to 0 and it worked fine from then on). Oh, and removing the
                  > TYPE:PC didn't do anything.
                  >
                  > I've uploaded a zip with my class and template files, if you're curious.
                  >
                  > I also had to copy the 35e gameModes directory and rename it as
                  > 35e_Blah, and then change the display name in the MiscInfo file, and
                  > set the first-level multiplier to 1. However, that seems to have
                  > fixed it all up perfectly.
                  >
                  > The only things I haven't fixed, and they are minor, is :
                  >
                  > 1) Max Ranks are 9 (bleh).
                  > 2) I've got 6 LV-0 abbreviations in classes on PDF. :)

                  Might try VISIBLE:GUI, and/or no ABB tag in the CLASS definitions.
                  One of those should prevent the display on your PDF (hopefully).

                  > 3) Attribute Points given after four levels (think that's probably in
                  > the GameMode files). Needs to be adjusted to first at 10 and each 4
                  > thereafter.

                  Removing TYPE:PC didn't fix that? It should have. TYPEs PC and NPC
                  are used to track that (and XP). If that doesn't work, we're looking
                  at a code bug.

                  > 4) Have to find a way to set the max levels to 26 now. :)
                  > 5) Feats keep getting generated, and given out with 2 extra at the end
                  > of the process. I can just type in a new number on the feat page, but
                  > I'm sure I can configure it to be 'start at 9, and add 1 every 3'
                  > somewhere. I just need to fidn where.

                  Removing TYPE:PC should fix that. Otherwise we need to get that
                  fixed. (For the coders: without a CRFORMULA formula, there shouldn't
                  be a progression of normal feats, stat boosts, etc. Those are all
                  supposed to be triggered off the CLASSTYPE definitions, that or we
                  need to tweak the system, since that was how it was explained to me
                  when they were coded up).

                  --
                  Tir Gwaith
                  PCGen LST Chimp
                • mattdt0
                  ... Nope, I never had the ABB tag in it (it s defaulting to 1st 3 characters of the name). And the VISIBLE:GUI tag didn t work either. Actually, it removed
                  Message 8 of 25 , May 31 1:05 PM
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                    --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, Tir Gwaith wrote:
                    >
                    > > 1) Max Ranks are 9 (bleh).
                    > > 2) I've got 6 LV-0 abbreviations in classes on PDF. :)
                    >
                    > Might try VISIBLE:GUI, and/or no ABB tag in the CLASS definitions.
                    > One of those should prevent the display on your PDF (hopefully).

                    Nope,
                    I never had the ABB tag in it (it's defaulting to 1st 3 characters
                    of the name). And the VISIBLE:GUI tag didn't work either. Actually,
                    it removed it from my list in the app, so that tag appears to be broken.

                    > > 3) Attribute Points given after four levels (think that's probably
                    > > in the GameMode files). Needs to be adjusted to first at 10 and
                    > > each 4 thereafter.
                    >
                    > Removing TYPE:PC didn't fix that? It should have. TYPEs PC and NPC
                    > are used to track that (and XP). If that doesn't work, we're
                    > looking at a code bug.

                    Nope, that didn't fix it, but it was in the MISCINFO of the gamemode
                    files. I set the flag below and that fixed it.

                    BONUSSTATLEVELSTARTINTERVAL:10|4

                    > > 4) Have to find a way to set the max levels to 26 now. :)
                    > > 5) Feats keep getting generated, and given out with 2 extra at the
                    > > end of the process. I can just type in a new number on the feat
                    > > page, but
                    > > I'm sure I can configure it to be 'start at 9, and add 1 every 3'
                    > > somewhere. I just need to fidn where.
                    >
                    > Removing TYPE:PC should fix that. Otherwise we need to get that
                    > fixed. (For the coders: without a CRFORMULA formula, there
                    > shouldn't be a progression of normal feats, stat boosts, etc. Those
                    > are all supposed to be triggered off the CLASSTYPE definitions, that
                    > or we need to tweak the system, since that was how it was explained
                    > to me when they were coded up).

                    I don't know about that, but I did set the flag below in the gamemode
                    file and that fixed it. Couldn't find anything anywhere about the
                    max-levels, I'm wondering if it's hard-coded to 20?

                    BONUSFEATLEVELSTARTINTERVAL:9|3


                    On a seperate note, I can't get the formula for my skill points to
                    work for negative modifiers. Here's the one I'm using now :

                    if(STR>0,(STR*3)-INT,Max((2+STR)-INT, 1))

                    It works fine for STR +1 or higher. But I want it to generate the
                    following :
                    STR 0 = 2
                    STR -1 = 1
                    STR -2 = 1
                    STR -3 = 1
                    STR -4 = 1

                    To me, this should work (Assuming INT is +1):

                    STR 0 = 2 + 0 - 1 = 2 - 1 = 1 (Then the app adds INT bonus) = 2
                    STR -1 = 2 + -1 - 1 = 2 - 2 = 0 (Then the app adds INT bonus) = 1
                    STR -2 = 2 + -2 - 1 = 2 - 3 = -1 (Then the app adds INT bonus) = -1
                    (Take Max of -1 and 1, which should be 1)

                    What I actually get is 4 (?!?!?!) when STR = -1, not sure WHERE that
                    comes from.

                    I guess I'll have to make a big compound if statement to handle them
                    individually.

                    MDT
                  • mattdt0
                    ... GAAARRRR!!!!! I found it. The program will *not* let the skills per level be less than 1 + INT Modifier. Doesn t matter how many negative skill points
                    Message 9 of 25 , May 31 2:01 PM
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                      --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, mattdt0 wrote:
                      >
                      > On a seperate note, I can't get the formula for my skill points to
                      > work for negative modifiers. Here's the one I'm using now :
                      >
                      > if(STR>0,(STR*3)-INT,Max((2+STR)-INT, 1))
                      >
                      > It works fine for STR +1 or higher. But I want it to generate the
                      > following :
                      > STR 0 = 2
                      > STR -1 = 1
                      > STR -2 = 1
                      > STR -3 = 1
                      > STR -4 = 1
                      >
                      > To me, this should work (Assuming INT is +1):
                      >
                      > STR 0 = 2 + 0 - 1 = 2 - 1 = 1 (Then the app adds INT bonus) = 2
                      > STR -1 = 2 + -1 - 1 = 2 - 2 = 0 (Then the app adds INT bonus) = 1
                      > STR -2 = 2 + -2 - 1 = 2 - 3 = -1 (Then the app adds INT bonus) = -1
                      > (Take Max of -1 and 1, which should be 1)
                      >
                      > What I actually get is 4 (?!?!?!) when STR = -1, not sure WHERE that
                      > comes from.
                      >
                      > I guess I'll have to make a big compound if statement to handle them
                      > individually.
                      >
                      > MDT
                      >


                      GAAARRRR!!!!!

                      I found it. The program will *not* let the skills per level be less
                      than 1 + INT Modifier. Doesn't matter how many negative skill points
                      you apply in the BONUS:SKILLPOOL|NUMBER tag. For example : If I have
                      an INT of 20 (+5), and I have set my skillpoints to 0 for the level,
                      and I put BONUS:SKILLPOOL|NUMBER|-5 on the level in the classes file,
                      I *still* get 6 skill points for that level (Minimum 1 + INT Mod).

                      Gah!

                      Any ideas? This is very very annoying, sounds like a bug really, why
                      have configuration tags if you're going to override them with hard-coding?

                      MDT
                    • Tir Gwaith
                      ... I thought it was supposed to be a minimum of 1, not 1 + INT. ... Have you tried MODTOSKILLS:NO on the class line? Removes the INT (typically) mod to
                      Message 10 of 25 , May 31 3:05 PM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        > I found it. The program will *not* let the skills per level be less
                        > than 1 + INT Modifier. Doesn't matter how many negative skill points
                        > you apply in the BONUS:SKILLPOOL|NUMBER tag. For example : If I have
                        > an INT of 20 (+5), and I have set my skillpoints to 0 for the level,
                        > and I put BONUS:SKILLPOOL|NUMBER|-5 on the level in the classes file,
                        > I *still* get 6 skill points for that level (Minimum 1 + INT Mod).

                        I thought it was supposed to be a minimum of 1, not 1 + INT.

                        > Any ideas? This is very very annoying, sounds like a bug really, why
                        > have configuration tags if you're going to override them with hard-coding?

                        Have you tried MODTOSKILLS:NO on the class line? Removes the INT
                        (typically) mod to skills.

                        Also, for the max skill ranks per level, since you have modified your
                        GameMode files, look at level.lst (where it defines max number of
                        skill ranks per level).

                        --
                        Tir Gwaith
                        PCGen LST Chimp
                      • Tom Parker
                        ... It is. ...but BONUS:SKILLPOOL specifically states in the docs it is only valid in class lines - that does NOT mean Class Level lines. I think what you both
                        Message 11 of 25 , May 31 5:55 PM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "Tir Gwaith"
                          <Tir.Gwaith@...> wrote:
                          > > I found it. The program will *not* let the skills per level be less
                          > > than 1 + INT Modifier. Doesn't matter how many negative skill points
                          > > you apply in the BONUS:SKILLPOOL|NUMBER tag. For example : If I have
                          > > an INT of 20 (+5), and I have set my skillpoints to 0 for the level,
                          > > and I put BONUS:SKILLPOOL|NUMBER|-5 on the level in the classes file,
                          > > I *still* get 6 skill points for that level (Minimum 1 + INT Mod).
                          >
                          > I thought it was supposed to be a minimum of 1, not 1 + INT.

                          It is.

                          ...but BONUS:SKILLPOOL specifically states in the docs it is only
                          valid in class lines - that does NOT mean Class Level lines.

                          I think what you both are looking for is BONUS:SKILLPOINTS|NUMBER|-5
                          ... this is specifically tested before the system ensures the minimum
                          of 1 skill point.

                          Please let me knof if that doesn't work :)
                        • Tom Parker
                          ... Before someone calls me on it, I might as well point out that this is a doc error and needs to be corrected. You still need to use SKILLPOINTS to get the
                          Message 12 of 25 , May 31 6:09 PM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Parker" <thpr@...> wrote:
                            > ...but BONUS:SKILLPOOL specifically states in the docs it is only
                            > valid in class lines - that does NOT mean Class Level lines.

                            Before someone calls me on it, I might as well point out that this is
                            a doc error and needs to be corrected.

                            You still need to use SKILLPOINTS to get the effect you want.
                          • Tir Gwaith
                            ... That s either a unfinished implementation, or a Bug. Take your pick. It should be on both class lines, and class level lines. (and BONUS:SKILLPOOL|CLASS=
                            Message 13 of 25 , May 31 6:42 PM
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                              > ...but BONUS:SKILLPOOL specifically states in the docs it is only
                              > valid in class lines - that does NOT mean Class Level lines.

                              That's either a unfinished implementation, or a Bug. Take your pick.
                              It should be on both class lines, and class level lines. (and
                              BONUS:SKILLPOOL|CLASS= stuff should be available anywhere, and if that
                              isn't the case, that _is_ a Bug.)

                              > I think what you both are looking for is BONUS:SKILLPOINTS|NUMBER|-5
                              > ... this is specifically tested before the system ensures the minimum
                              > of 1 skill point.

                              Nope, not what I'm looking for.

                              --
                              Tir Gwaith
                              PCGen LST Chimp
                            • Tir Gwaith
                              ... Too late. Already called you out on it. Ok, so Doc Bug. ... In this case, partially, yeah. -- Tir Gwaith PCGen LST Chimp
                              Message 14 of 25 , May 31 6:43 PM
                              • 0 Attachment
                                On 5/31/07, Tom Parker <thpr@...> wrote:
                                > --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Parker" <thpr@...> wrote:
                                > > ...but BONUS:SKILLPOOL specifically states in the docs it is only
                                > > valid in class lines - that does NOT mean Class Level lines.
                                >
                                > Before someone calls me on it, I might as well point out that this is
                                > a doc error and needs to be corrected.

                                Too late. Already called you out on it. Ok, so Doc Bug.

                                > You still need to use SKILLPOINTS to get the effect you want.

                                In this case, partially, yeah.

                                --
                                Tir Gwaith
                                PCGen LST Chimp
                              • Eric C. Smith
                                ... I see no BONUS:SKILLPOOL tag listed, just a BONUS:SKILLPOOL|NUMBER and a BONUS:SKILLPOOL|CLASS tag. The BONUS:SKILLPOOL|NUMBER tag is listed as Valid in
                                Message 15 of 25 , May 31 6:59 PM
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                                  Tom wrote:
                                  >
                                  > --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Parker" <thpr@> wrote:
                                  > > ...but BONUS:SKILLPOOL specifically states in the docs it is only
                                  > > valid in class lines - that does NOT mean Class Level lines.
                                  >
                                  > Before someone calls me on it, I might as well point out that this is
                                  > a doc error and needs to be corrected.

                                  I see no BONUS:SKILLPOOL tag listed, just a BONUS:SKILLPOOL|NUMBER and a
                                  BONUS:SKILLPOOL|CLASS tag.

                                  The BONUS:SKILLPOOL|NUMBER tag is listed as 'Valid in only Class Lines'

                                  I have reviewed the data files and have found one instance n a template file while the rest
                                  of the instances are in the Class Level Line . . . except for a few instances that have been
                                  commented out in companion_mod amf feat files.

                                  The BONUS:SKILLPOOL|CLASS tag appears in race files, a feat file, and in class files, where
                                  it only appears in the Class Line.

                                  Maredudd
                                • Tom Parker
                                  ... and a ... That was me trying to save a few characters... it s not only Data Monkeys that are lazy :P ... Should say class and class level lines based on
                                  Message 16 of 25 , May 31 7:46 PM
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                                    --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "Eric C. Smith"
                                    <maredudd@...> wrote:
                                    > I see no BONUS:SKILLPOOL tag listed, just a BONUS:SKILLPOOL|NUMBER
                                    and a
                                    > BONUS:SKILLPOOL|CLASS tag.

                                    That was me trying to save a few characters... it's not only Data
                                    Monkeys that are lazy :P

                                    > The BONUS:SKILLPOOL|NUMBER tag is listed as 'Valid in only Class Lines'

                                    Should say class and class level lines based on how the code is written.

                                    > I have reviewed the data files and have found one instance n a
                                    template file while the rest
                                    > of the instances are in the Class Level Line . . . except for a few
                                    instances that have been
                                    > commented out in companion_mod amf feat files.

                                    The Template entry should be flagged for Data [as a Bug]. The only
                                    code that uses SKILLPOOL NUMBER specifically fetches the bonus out of
                                    Classes. The Template will not work as coded.

                                    > The BONUS:SKILLPOOL|CLASS tag appears in race files, a feat file,
                                    and in class files, where
                                    > it only appears in the Class Line.

                                    Yea, I was talking NUMBER.
                                  • mattdt0
                                    YAY, got it to work finally, but not without some pain. BONUS:SKILLPOINTS|NUMBER is broken, big time. It works for the first class level, then afterwards, it
                                    Message 17 of 25 , May 31 8:59 PM
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                                      YAY, got it to work finally, but not without some pain.

                                      BONUS:SKILLPOINTS|NUMBER is broken, big time. It works for the
                                      first class level, then afterwards, it continues to add those points
                                      *for every class level in any class you ever add again*.

                                      For Example :

                                      Str 12 (+1) Starting STR skill points = 3
                                      Dex 14 (+2) Starting DEX skill points = 6
                                      Con 16 (+3) Starting CON skill poitns = 9

                                      Now, I add in my '0 Level Str' Class.
                                      I get 3 Skill points for it.

                                      Now, I add in my '0 Level Dex' Class.
                                      I get 9 skill points for it (6 from the Dex, and 3 from the Str)

                                      Now, I add in my '0 Level Con' Class.
                                      I get a whopping 18 skill points for it (Str + Dex + con = 18)

                                      So I've gotten 3 + 9 + 18 = 30 skill points total. When I should have
                                      gotten 9 + 6 + 3 = 18.

                                      Seems like that little tag is hosed up big time, at least as far as
                                      CLASS files go.

                                      I put the formula into the STARTSKILLPTS field and then it went to
                                      working. Here's what the final class ended up looking like. I only
                                      pasted in the STR class, the rest are identicle, just diff stats.

                                      # Class Name Hit Dice Type Abbreviation Ex Class Source Page
                                      Save checks bonus Combat bonus
                                      CLASS:0 Level Str HD:1 SOURCEPAGE:ClassesI.rtf ABB:
                                      # Class Name Skill Pts/Lvl Class Skill
                                      CLASS:0 Level Str STARTSKILLPTS:if(STR>=1,(STR*3), if(STR < 0, 1,
                                      2)) CSKILL:Climb|Jump|Swim MAXLEVEL:1 MODTOSKILLS:NO
                                      1 BONUS:HP|CURRENTMAX|(-1-CON)


                                      I managed to clean up the character sheet a little bit. I put the
                                      ABB: tag in with no setting, so now I just have '1 1 1 1 1 1 Rgr1',
                                      which is better than '0 L1 0 L1 0 L1 0 L1 0 L1 0 L1 Rgr1' :)

                                      Changing the max-ranks worked, but I had to put in a formula.
                                      Basically, I ended up making max-ranks = MAX(3, LEVEL+3-6), and CC Max
                                      Ranks = MAX(3, LEVEL+3-6)/2

                                      Thanks for all the help everyone. This seems to have finished it up,
                                      I'll post back if I have any more problems.

                                      MDT
                                    • Martijn Verburg
                                      Did the doc bug get trackered?
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Jun 1, 2007
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Did the doc bug get trackered?

                                        > On 5/31/07, Tom Parker <thpr@...> wrote:
                                        > > --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Parker" <thpr@> wrote:
                                        > > > ...but BONUS:SKILLPOOL specifically states in the docs it is only
                                        > > > valid in class lines - that does NOT mean Class Level lines.
                                        > >
                                        > > Before someone calls me on it, I might as well point out that this is
                                        > > a doc error and needs to be corrected.
                                        >
                                        > Too late. Already called you out on it. Ok, so Doc Bug.
                                        >
                                        > > You still need to use SKILLPOINTS to get the effect you want.
                                        >
                                        > In this case, partially, yeah.
                                        >
                                        > --
                                        > Tir Gwaith
                                        > PCGen LST Chimp
                                        >
                                      • Martijn Verburg
                                        If a data monkey could confirm that the tag is broken, please throw a TM on the subject line and one of us will tracker it - K
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Jun 1, 2007
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                                          If a data monkey could confirm that the tag is broken, please throw a
                                          TM on the subject line and one of us will tracker it - K

                                          > YAY, got it to work finally, but not without some pain.
                                          >
                                          > BONUS:SKILLPOINTS|NUMBER is broken, big time. It works for the
                                          > first class level, then afterwards, it continues to add those points
                                          > *for every class level in any class you ever add again*.
                                          >
                                          > For Example :
                                          >
                                          > Str 12 (+1) Starting STR skill points = 3
                                          > Dex 14 (+2) Starting DEX skill points = 6
                                          > Con 16 (+3) Starting CON skill poitns = 9
                                          >
                                          > Now, I add in my '0 Level Str' Class.
                                          > I get 3 Skill points for it.
                                          >
                                          > Now, I add in my '0 Level Dex' Class.
                                          > I get 9 skill points for it (6 from the Dex, and 3 from the Str)
                                          >
                                          > Now, I add in my '0 Level Con' Class.
                                          > I get a whopping 18 skill points for it (Str + Dex + con = 18)
                                          >
                                          > So I've gotten 3 + 9 + 18 = 30 skill points total. When I should have
                                          > gotten 9 + 6 + 3 = 18.
                                          >
                                          > Seems like that little tag is hosed up big time, at least as far as
                                          > CLASS files go.
                                          >
                                          > I put the formula into the STARTSKILLPTS field and then it went to
                                          > working. Here's what the final class ended up looking like. I only
                                          > pasted in the STR class, the rest are identicle, just diff stats.
                                          >
                                          > # Class Name Hit Dice Type Abbreviation Ex Class Source Page
                                          > Save checks bonus Combat bonus
                                          > CLASS:0 Level Str HD:1 SOURCEPAGE:ClassesI.rtf ABB:
                                          > # Class Name Skill Pts/Lvl Class Skill
                                          > CLASS:0 Level Str STARTSKILLPTS:if(STR>=1,(STR*3), if(STR < 0, 1,
                                          > 2)) CSKILL:Climb|Jump|Swim MAXLEVEL:1 MODTOSKILLS:NO
                                          > 1 BONUS:HP|CURRENTMAX|(-1-CON)
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > I managed to clean up the character sheet a little bit. I put the
                                          > ABB: tag in with no setting, so now I just have '1 1 1 1 1 1 Rgr1',
                                          > which is better than '0 L1 0 L1 0 L1 0 L1 0 L1 0 L1 Rgr1' :)
                                          >
                                          > Changing the max-ranks worked, but I had to put in a formula.
                                          > Basically, I ended up making max-ranks = MAX(3, LEVEL+3-6), and CC Max
                                          > Ranks = MAX(3, LEVEL+3-6)/2
                                          >
                                          > Thanks for all the help everyone. This seems to have finished it up,
                                          > I'll post back if I have any more problems.
                                          >
                                          > MDT
                                          >
                                        • Martijn Verburg
                                          ... Lines ... What exactly needs to be trackered here? K
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Jun 1, 2007
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                                            > --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "Eric C. Smith"
                                            > <maredudd@> wrote:
                                            > > I see no BONUS:SKILLPOOL tag listed, just a BONUS:SKILLPOOL|NUMBER
                                            > and a
                                            > > BONUS:SKILLPOOL|CLASS tag.
                                            >
                                            > That was me trying to save a few characters... it's not only Data
                                            > Monkeys that are lazy :P
                                            >
                                            > > The BONUS:SKILLPOOL|NUMBER tag is listed as 'Valid in only Class
                                            Lines'
                                            >
                                            > Should say class and class level lines based on how the code is written.
                                            >
                                            > > I have reviewed the data files and have found one instance n a
                                            > template file while the rest
                                            > > of the instances are in the Class Level Line . . . except for a few
                                            > instances that have been
                                            > > commented out in companion_mod amf feat files.
                                            >
                                            > The Template entry should be flagged for Data [as a Bug]. The only
                                            > code that uses SKILLPOOL NUMBER specifically fetches the bonus out
                                            > of Classes. The Template will not work as coded.

                                            What exactly needs to be trackered here?

                                            K
                                          • Eric C. Smith
                                            ... There is a tracker for the doc bug to fix the mis-information, but if this tag is only valid in the class file, then it needs to be moved from the global
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Jun 1, 2007
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Kar wrote:
                                              > > > The BONUS:SKILLPOOL|NUMBER tag is listed as 'Valid in only Class
                                              > Lines'
                                              > >
                                              > > Should say class and class level lines based on how the code is
                                              > written.
                                              > >
                                              > > > I have reviewed the data files and have found one instance n a
                                              > > template file while the rest
                                              > > > of the instances are in the Class Level Line . . . except for a
                                              > few
                                              > > instances that have been
                                              > > > commented out in companion_mod amf feat files.
                                              > >
                                              > > The Template entry should be flagged for Data [as a Bug]. The only
                                              > > code that uses SKILLPOOL NUMBER specifically fetches the bonus out
                                              > > of Classes. The Template will not work as coded.
                                              >
                                              > What exactly needs to be trackered here?
                                              >
                                              There is a tracker for the doc bug to fix the mis-information, but if
                                              this tag is only valid in the class file, then it needs to be moved
                                              from the global tag list to the class file tag list. If that is what
                                              needs to be done, I can add that to the scope of the existing doc
                                              tracker.

                                              Maredudd
                                            • Tir Gwaith
                                              ... There is a Data bug, using BONUS:SKILLPOOL|NUMBER in a template.lst file (follow the thread backwards to figure out which file. -- Tir Gwaith PCGen LST
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Jun 1, 2007
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                                                > > The Template entry should be flagged for Data [as a Bug]. The only
                                                > > code that uses SKILLPOOL NUMBER specifically fetches the bonus out
                                                > > of Classes. The Template will not work as coded.
                                                >
                                                > What exactly needs to be trackered here?

                                                There is a Data bug, using BONUS:SKILLPOOL|NUMBER in a template.lst
                                                file (follow the thread backwards to figure out which file.

                                                --
                                                Tir Gwaith
                                                PCGen LST Chimp
                                              • Tir Gwaith
                                                ... And it should be only for that particular class s skill points, IIRC. -- Tir Gwaith PCGen LST Chimp
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Jun 1, 2007
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  On 5/31/07, mattdt0 <mattdt0@...> wrote:
                                                  > YAY, got it to work finally, but not without some pain.
                                                  >
                                                  > BONUS:SKILLPOINTS|NUMBER is broken, big time. It works for the
                                                  > first class level, then afterwards, it continues to add those points
                                                  > *for every class level in any class you ever add again*.

                                                  And it should be only for that particular class's skill points, IIRC.


                                                  --
                                                  Tir Gwaith
                                                  PCGen LST Chimp
                                                • Eric C. Smith
                                                  ... Tracker #1732799, [RSRD] BONUS:SKILLPOOL|NUMBER tag does not work in template, created.
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Jun 7, 2007
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "Martijn Verburg" <martijnverburg@...> wrote:
                                                    > What exactly needs to be trackered here?
                                                    >

                                                    Tracker #1732799, [RSRD] BONUS:SKILLPOOL|NUMBER tag does not work in template,
                                                    created.
                                                  • mattdt0
                                                    Uhm, I wasn t trying it in Template, I was trying it in Class. Docs say it should work at the level line in class, but it adds to every level in every class
                                                    Message 25 of 25 , Jun 7, 2007
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      Uhm,
                                                      I wasn't trying it in Template, I was trying it in Class.

                                                      Docs say it should work at the level line in class, but it adds to
                                                      every level in every class taken after it's added to the character.

                                                      --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "Eric C. Smith"
                                                      <maredudd@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, "Martijn Verburg"
                                                      <martijnverburg@> wrote:
                                                      > > What exactly needs to be trackered here?
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      > Tracker #1732799, [RSRD] BONUS:SKILLPOOL|NUMBER tag does not work in
                                                      template,
                                                      > created.
                                                      >
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