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additional bonus feats

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  • Paul W. King
    I m not sure how to logically implement this, so I hope someone has a stroke of brilliance. :) My speicific issue is for Modern, but I m sure it could be
    Message 1 of 19 , Nov 13, 2006
      I'm not sure how to logically implement this, so I hope someone has a
      stroke of brilliance. :)

      My speicific issue is for Modern, but I'm sure it could be applied to
      any game mode.

      I have a feat, call it Foo, that allows a character to have additional
      bonus feats to be chosen. So, if I have a character that is a Dedicated
      1/Charismatic 1, and I take Foo, the next time I get a bonus class feat
      (from any class, not just those two), any feat listed as bonus from Foo
      automatically gets added to the list. So, if Foo grants Archaic Weapons
      Proficiency, Power Attack and Weapon Focus, those 3 should show up in
      the list of bonus class feats (for all classes).

      I vaguely recall asking this before, but couldn't find it in my
      archive...so I may have been halucinating on asking it. :D

      Thanks for any help.

      Paul W. King
      PR SB, BoD
    • Paul Grosse
      ... Ouch. Paul G.
      Message 2 of 19 , Nov 13, 2006
        >
        > I'm not sure how to logically implement this, so I hope
        > someone has a stroke of brilliance. :)
        >
        > My speicific issue is for Modern, but I'm sure it could be
        > applied to any game mode.
        >
        > I have a feat, call it Foo, that allows a character to have
        > additional bonus feats to be chosen. So, if I have a
        > character that is a Dedicated 1/Charismatic 1, and I take
        > Foo, the next time I get a bonus class feat (from any class,
        > not just those two), any feat listed as bonus from Foo
        > automatically gets added to the list. So, if Foo grants
        > Archaic Weapons Proficiency, Power Attack and Weapon Focus,
        > those 3 should show up in the list of bonus class feats (for
        > all classes).
        >
        > I vaguely recall asking this before, but couldn't find it in
        > my archive...so I may have been halucinating on asking it. :D
        >
        > Thanks for any help.
        >
        > Paul W. King
        > PR SB, BoD
        >
        >

        Ouch.

        Paul G.
      • Paul Grosse
        ... Hmm, after my first initial thought of Ouch. MOD all classes so that it gets BONUS:FEAT|x,TYPE=FooBonus Recode ITYPE so that it can add types to feats.
        Message 3 of 19 , Nov 13, 2006
          >
          > I'm not sure how to logically implement this, so I hope
          > someone has a stroke of brilliance. :)
          >
          > My speicific issue is for Modern, but I'm sure it could be
          > applied to any game mode.
          >
          > I have a feat, call it Foo, that allows a character to have
          > additional bonus feats to be chosen. So, if I have a
          > character that is a Dedicated 1/Charismatic 1, and I take
          > Foo, the next time I get a bonus class feat (from any class,
          > not just those two), any feat listed as bonus from Foo
          > automatically gets added to the list. So, if Foo grants
          > Archaic Weapons Proficiency, Power Attack and Weapon Focus,
          > those 3 should show up in the list of bonus class feats (for
          > all classes).
          >
          > I vaguely recall asking this before, but couldn't find it in
          > my archive...so I may have been halucinating on asking it. :D
          >
          > Thanks for any help.
          >
          > Paul W. King
          > PR SB, BoD
          >
          >

          Hmm, after my first initial thought of Ouch.

          MOD all classes so that it gets BONUS:FEAT|x,TYPE=FooBonus

          Recode ITYPE so that it can add types to feats.

          Have the feat (or a template that the feat grants} ITYPE=FooBonus to the
          feats it lists.

          But I can't think of a easy way to do it with the current code.

          Paul G.
          Data Chimp, Tracker Lemur, OGL SB, BoD.
        • Frank Kliewe
          ... Maybe this will work: add a hidden feat called Foo Selections. Among other stuff this feat will need: TYPE:
          Message 4 of 19 , Nov 13, 2006
            On 11/13/06, Paul W. King <paulking.rhochi@...> wrote:
            >
            > I'm not sure how to logically implement this, so I hope someone has a
            > stroke of brilliance. :)
            >
            > My speicific issue is for Modern, but I'm sure it could be applied to
            > any game mode.
            >
            > I have a feat, call it Foo, that allows a character to have additional
            > bonus feats to be chosen. So, if I have a character that is a Dedicated
            > 1/Charismatic 1, and I take Foo, the next time I get a bonus class feat
            > (from any class, not just those two), any feat listed as bonus from Foo
            > automatically gets added to the list. So, if Foo grants Archaic Weapons
            > Proficiency, Power Attack and Weapon Focus, those 3 should show up in
            > the list of bonus class feats (for all classes).
            >
            > I vaguely recall asking this before, but couldn't find it in my
            > archive...so I may have been halucinating on asking it. :D
            >
            > Thanks for any help.
            >
            > Paul W. King
            > PR SB, BoD
            >

            Maybe this will work: add a hidden feat called Foo Selections. Among
            other stuff this feat will need:
            TYPE:<any class that is getting Bonus Feats>
            PREFEAT:1,Foo
            ADD:FEAT(Archaic Weapons Proficiency,Power Attack,Weapon Focus)

            Then this hidden feat will appear as one of the bonus feats allowing
            you to make your selection. The problematic part is the TYPE tag,as
            you will have a tough time covering each and every class.

            Is this for a dataset based off our MSRD dataset?


            Cheerio,

            Frank Kliewe
            PCGen Content Silverback

            --
            Come on now, be honest! Which one of you wouldn't rather listen to his
            hairdresser than Hercules? Or Horatius, or Orpheus... people so lofty
            they sound as if they shit marble!
            (W.A. Mozart in "Amadeus", 1984)
          • Frank Kliewe
            ... Paul G. your LST skills are getting a bit rusty. I think it is in your own best interest if you start coding a dataset for us right now. *walks off,
            Message 5 of 19 , Nov 13, 2006
              On 11/13/06, Paul Grosse <paul.grosse@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > I'm not sure how to logically implement this, so I hope
              > > someone has a stroke of brilliance. :)
              > >
              > > My speicific issue is for Modern, but I'm sure it could be
              > > applied to any game mode.
              > >
              > > I have a feat, call it Foo, that allows a character to have
              > > additional bonus feats to be chosen. So, if I have a
              > > character that is a Dedicated 1/Charismatic 1, and I take
              > > Foo, the next time I get a bonus class feat (from any class,
              > > not just those two), any feat listed as bonus from Foo
              > > automatically gets added to the list. So, if Foo grants
              > > Archaic Weapons Proficiency, Power Attack and Weapon Focus,
              > > those 3 should show up in the list of bonus class feats (for
              > > all classes).
              > >
              > > I vaguely recall asking this before, but couldn't find it in
              > > my archive...so I may have been halucinating on asking it. :D
              > >
              > > Thanks for any help.
              > >
              > > Paul W. King
              > > PR SB, BoD
              > >
              > >
              >
              > Hmm, after my first initial thought of Ouch.
              >
              > MOD all classes so that it gets BONUS:FEAT|x,TYPE=FooBonus
              >
              > Recode ITYPE so that it can add types to feats.
              >
              > Have the feat (or a template that the feat grants} ITYPE=FooBonus to the
              > feats it lists.
              >
              > But I can't think of a easy way to do it with the current code.
              >
              > Paul G.
              > Data Chimp, Tracker Lemur, OGL SB, BoD.

              Paul G. your LST skills are getting a bit rusty. I think it is in your
              own best interest if you start coding a dataset for us right now.
              *walks off, whistling innocently* ;-)

              Cheerio,

              Frank Kliewe
              PCGen Content Silverback

              --
              Come on now, be honest! Which one of you wouldn't rather listen to his
              hairdresser than Hercules? Or Horatius, or Orpheus... people so lofty
              they sound as if they shit marble!
              (W.A. Mozart in "Amadeus", 1984)
            • Paul W. King
              Turns out I did ask before...found the initial question: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/message/9761 There are 20 MOS s in BnG2: Military
              Message 6 of 19 , Nov 13, 2006
                Turns out I did ask before...found the initial question: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PCGenListFileHelp/message/9761

                There are 20 MOS's in BnG2: Military Training Manual. Specifically, I'm trying to create a SEAL team. A SEAL is required to have
                MOS Diver and MOS Rifleman.

                Diver has, as available bonus feats:
                Alertness, Amphibious Assault Training, Armor Proficiency (light, medium, heavy), Athletic, Builder, Cautious, Endurance,
                Gearhead, Great Fortitude, Guide, Jump School, Jungle/Swamp Warfare College, MOS Mastery, Signaling, Sonar Operation, Surface
                Vehicle Operation (powerboat, sailboat), Teamwork

                Rifleman has, as available bonus feats:
                Advanced Firearms Proficiency, Air Assault Training, Amphibious Assault Training, Armor Proficiency (light, medium, heavy),
                Athletic, Burst Fire, Combat Martial Arts, Combat Reflexes, Confident, Cover Fire, Dead Aim, Desert Warfare College, Endurance,
                Exotic Firearms Proficiency, Far Shot, Forced March, Jump School, Jungle/Swamp Warfare College, MOS Mastery, Mountain Warfare
                College, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, SERE, Signaling, Strafe, Teamwork, Urban Warfare College, Weapon Focus

                What this means is that any time a character gets a class bonus feat, any feats made eligible through MOS's also show up on the
                bonus feat pop-up. So, if the SEAL was a Fast/Tough Hero, any time they get a Fast and/or a Tough bonus feat, the feats listed for
                Diver and Rifleman should also show up.

                Does that make it clear as mud now? :D

                Paul W. King
                PR SB, BoD

                -----Original Message-----
                From: PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com
                [mailto:PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Frank Kliewe
                Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 11:43 PM
                To: PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [PCGenListFileHelp] additional bonus feats

                Maybe this will work: add a hidden feat called Foo Selections. Among
                other stuff this feat will need:
                TYPE:<any class that is getting Bonus Feats>
                PREFEAT:1,Foo
                ADD:FEAT(Archaic Weapons Proficiency,Power Attack,Weapon Focus)

                Then this hidden feat will appear as one of the bonus feats allowing
                you to make your selection. The problematic part is the TYPE tag,as
                you will have a tough time covering each and every class.

                Is this for a dataset based off our MSRD dataset?
              • Paul W. King
                I just had a crazy thought, but the docs don t say its possible. Can TYPE (especially when used in a feat.lst file) take PRExxx? So, using the Diver MOS below,
                Message 7 of 19 , Nov 17, 2006
                  I just had a crazy thought, but the docs don't say its possible. Can
                  TYPE (especially when used in a feat.lst file) take PRExxx? So, using
                  the Diver MOS below, I could do:

                  Alertness.MOD
                  TYPE:MOSBonusFeat|PREFEAT:1,MOS Diver

                  Granted, every class that we have in the Modern set would need to
                  have MOSBonusFeat added to the TYPE of all class bonus feats.

                  Possible? Or should I enter a FREQ?

                  > There are 20 MOS's in BnG2: Military Training Manual. Specifically,
                  > I'm trying to create a SEAL team. A SEAL is required to have MOS
                  > Diver and MOS Rifleman.
                  >
                  > Diver has, as available bonus feats:
                  > Alertness, Amphibious Assault Training, Armor Proficiency (light,
                  > medium, heavy), Athletic, Builder, Cautious, Endurance, Gearhead,
                  > Great Fortitude, Guide, Jump School, Jungle/Swamp Warfare College,
                  > MOS Mastery, Signaling, Sonar Operation, Surface Vehicle Operation
                  > (powerboat, sailboat), Teamwork
                  >
                  > Rifleman has, as available bonus feats:
                  > Advanced Firearms Proficiency, Air Assault Training, Amphibious
                  > Assault Training, Armor Proficiency (light, medium, heavy),
                  > Athletic, Burst Fire, Combat Martial Arts, Combat Reflexes,
                  > Confident, Cover Fire, Dead Aim, Desert Warfare College, Endurance,
                  > Exotic Firearms Proficiency, Far Shot, Forced March, Jump School,
                  > Jungle/Swamp Warfare College, MOS Mastery, Mountain Warfare
                  > College, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, SERE, Signaling, Strafe,
                  > Teamwork, Urban Warfare College, Weapon Focus
                  >
                  > What this means is that any time a character gets a class bonus
                  > feat, any feats made eligible through MOS's also show up on the
                  > bonus feat pop-up. So, if the SEAL was a Fast/Tough Hero, any time
                  > they get a Fast and/or a Tough bonus feat, the feats listed for
                  > Diver and Rifleman should also show up.

                  Paul W. King
                  PR SB, BoD
                • Paul Grosse
                  ... Yes Paul that is possible. I know that I ve used it in some custom stuff. Paul G.
                  Message 8 of 19 , Nov 17, 2006
                    >
                    > I just had a crazy thought, but the docs don't say its
                    > possible. Can TYPE (especially when used in a feat.lst file)
                    > take PRExxx? So, using the Diver MOS below, I could do:
                    >
                    > Alertness.MOD
                    > TYPE:MOSBonusFeat|PREFEAT:1,MOS Diver
                    >
                    > Granted, every class that we have in the Modern set would
                    > need to have MOSBonusFeat added to the TYPE of all class bonus feats.
                    >
                    > Possible? Or should I enter a FREQ?
                    >
                    > > There are 20 MOS's in BnG2: Military Training Manual. Specifically,
                    > > I'm trying to create a SEAL team. A SEAL is required to
                    > have MOS Diver
                    > > and MOS Rifleman.
                    > >
                    > > Diver has, as available bonus feats:
                    > > Alertness, Amphibious Assault Training, Armor Proficiency (light,
                    > > medium, heavy), Athletic, Builder, Cautious, Endurance, Gearhead,
                    > > Great Fortitude, Guide, Jump School, Jungle/Swamp Warfare
                    > College, MOS
                    > > Mastery, Signaling, Sonar Operation, Surface Vehicle Operation
                    > > (powerboat, sailboat), Teamwork
                    > >
                    > > Rifleman has, as available bonus feats:
                    > > Advanced Firearms Proficiency, Air Assault Training, Amphibious
                    > > Assault Training, Armor Proficiency (light, medium, heavy),
                    > Athletic,
                    > > Burst Fire, Combat Martial Arts, Combat Reflexes, Confident, Cover
                    > > Fire, Dead Aim, Desert Warfare College, Endurance, Exotic Firearms
                    > > Proficiency, Far Shot, Forced March, Jump School,
                    > Jungle/Swamp Warfare
                    > > College, MOS Mastery, Mountain Warfare College, Point Blank Shot,
                    > > Precise Shot, SERE, Signaling, Strafe, Teamwork, Urban Warfare
                    > > College, Weapon Focus
                    > >
                    > > What this means is that any time a character gets a class
                    > bonus feat,
                    > > any feats made eligible through MOS's also show up on the
                    > bonus feat
                    > > pop-up. So, if the SEAL was a Fast/Tough Hero, any time they get a
                    > > Fast and/or a Tough bonus feat, the feats listed for Diver and
                    > > Rifleman should also show up.
                    >
                    > Paul W. King
                    > PR SB, BoD
                    >
                    >

                    Yes Paul that is possible. I know that I've used it in some custom
                    stuff.

                    Paul G.
                  • Tir Gwaith
                    ... Option C) No, not possible. And I d be against that sort of improvement. The TYPE tag would become even worse than it is now, syntax-wise. Plus, it
                    Message 9 of 19 , Nov 17, 2006
                      > I just had a crazy thought, but the docs don't say its possible. Can
                      > TYPE (especially when used in a feat.lst file) take PRExxx? So, using
                      > the Diver MOS below, I could do:
                      >
                      > Alertness.MOD
                      > TYPE:MOSBonusFeat|PREFEAT:1,MOS Diver
                      >
                      > Granted, every class that we have in the Modern set would need to
                      > have MOSBonusFeat added to the TYPE of all class bonus feats.
                      >
                      > Possible? Or should I enter a FREQ?

                      Option C) No, not possible. And I'd be against that sort of
                      improvement. The TYPE tag would become even worse than it is now,
                      syntax-wise. Plus, it will mean checking a dynamic list, instead of a
                      static hash, which means a lot more processing (my thinking is
                      sloooowdown)

                      Anything wrong with doing something like the Rogue abilities, and
                      havning a (hidden) feat with the PRExxx added to each class option
                      time, and then have that feat call the other feat?

                      --
                      Tir Gwaith
                      PCGen LST Chimp
                    • Paul Grosse
                      ... Are you sure Tir? I m pretty sure I ve used PRExxx on TYPE s in the past. Paul G.
                      Message 10 of 19 , Nov 17, 2006
                        > > I just had a crazy thought, but the docs don't say its
                        > possible. Can
                        > > TYPE (especially when used in a feat.lst file) take PRExxx?
                        > So, using
                        > > the Diver MOS below, I could do:
                        > >
                        > > Alertness.MOD
                        > > TYPE:MOSBonusFeat|PREFEAT:1,MOS Diver
                        > >
                        > > Granted, every class that we have in the Modern set would
                        > need to have
                        > > MOSBonusFeat added to the TYPE of all class bonus feats.
                        > >
                        > > Possible? Or should I enter a FREQ?
                        >
                        > Option C) No, not possible. And I'd be against that sort of
                        > improvement. The TYPE tag would become even worse than it is
                        > now, syntax-wise. Plus, it will mean checking a dynamic
                        > list, instead of a static hash, which means a lot more
                        > processing (my thinking is
                        > sloooowdown)
                        >
                        > Anything wrong with doing something like the Rogue abilities,
                        > and havning a (hidden) feat with the PRExxx added to each
                        > class option time, and then have that feat call the other feat?
                        >
                        > --
                        > Tir Gwaith
                        > PCGen LST Chimp
                        >

                        Are you sure Tir? I'm pretty sure I've used PRExxx on TYPE's in the
                        past.

                        Paul G.
                      • Paul W. King
                        ... Could a coder speak on this? I don t see how this kind of logic would bog down the system. ... But then, if the user doesn t want an MOS feat, how do they
                        Message 11 of 19 , Nov 17, 2006
                          > Option C) No, not possible. And I'd be against that sort of
                          > improvement. The TYPE tag would become even worse than it is now,
                          > syntax-wise. Plus, it will mean checking a dynamic list, instead
                          > of a static hash, which means a lot more processing (my thinking
                          > is sloooowdown)

                          Could a coder speak on this? I don't see how this kind of logic would bog down the system.

                          > Anything wrong with doing something like the Rogue abilities, and
                          > havning a (hidden) feat with the PRExxx added to each class option
                          > time, and then have that feat call the other feat?

                          But then, if the user doesn't want an MOS feat, how do they go back to the class list? The idea is to have one list of feats available for choosing. If I get my bonus list, plus MOS A, MOS B, MOS C, and I pick one of the MOS choosers, I can't go back to the main list (I've tried before).

                          Paul W. King
                          PR SB, BoD
                        • boomer70
                          ... I don t know what the visible impact would be but it certainly would cause more runtime work to occur. If we allow the TYPE tag to have PRExxx tags before
                          Message 12 of 19 , Nov 17, 2006
                            --- "Paul W. King" <paulking.rhochi@...>
                            wrote:

                            > > Option C) No, not possible. And I'd be against
                            > that sort of
                            > > improvement. The TYPE tag would become even worse
                            > than it is now,
                            > > syntax-wise. Plus, it will mean checking a
                            > dynamic list, instead
                            > > of a static hash, which means a lot more
                            > processing (my thinking
                            > > is sloooowdown)
                            >
                            > Could a coder speak on this? I don't see how this
                            > kind of logic would bog down the system.
                            >

                            I don't know what the visible impact would be but it
                            certainly would cause more runtime work to occur.

                            If we allow the TYPE tag to have PRExxx tags before we
                            can test is some object is a particular type we need
                            to resolve all the PRExxxs for it. This means we need
                            to make sure all the info is updated about the
                            character. This could lead to needing additional
                            calcActiveBonuses() calls which is about the slowest
                            thing that we do in the system.

                            Beyond that I am not sure I agree with the concept.
                            TYPE to me should be an inherent trait of an object
                            not something variable. We have more than enough
                            variable things already.


                            > > Anything wrong with doing something like the Rogue
                            > abilities, and
                            > > havning a (hidden) feat with the PRExxx added to
                            > each class option
                            > > time, and then have that feat call the other feat?
                            >
                            > But then, if the user doesn't want an MOS feat, how
                            > do they go back to the class list? The idea is to
                            > have one list of feats available for choosing. If I
                            > get my bonus list, plus MOS A, MOS B, MOS C, and I
                            > pick one of the MOS choosers, I can't go back to the
                            > main list (I've tried before).
                            >
                            > Paul W. King
                            > PR SB, BoD
                            >

                            I am not sure I really understand what all you are
                            tyring to do here. When you say "go back to the class
                            list" do you mean after they have already chosen
                            something? If not and all you want is a chooser that
                            displays them all why not have two choosers. The
                            first displays Base, MOS A, MOS B, MOS C. Then
                            display a chooser for the appropriate chosen feat
                            list.

                            -Aaron

                            ----------------
                            Aaron Divinsky
                            PCGen Docs 2nd, Data Chimp, Code Gibbon, Doc Tamarin



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                          • Paul W. King
                            ... Cool! I ll try it out with a test case sometime this weekend. Paul W. King PR SB, BoD
                            Message 13 of 19 , Nov 17, 2006
                              > Yes Paul that is possible. I know that I've used it in some custom
                              > stuff.

                              Cool! I'll try it out with a test case sometime this weekend.

                              Paul W. King
                              PR SB, BoD
                            • Tir Gwaith
                              I think Paul G is remembering TYPE as it works in EQMODs - TYPE, ITYPE work differently in EQMODs than in FEATs, or any other object. Let me know if it works
                              Message 14 of 19 , Nov 17, 2006
                                I think Paul G is remembering TYPE as it works in EQMODs - TYPE, ITYPE
                                work differently in EQMODs than in FEATs, or any other object.

                                Let me know if it works in the normal objects.

                                On 11/17/06, Paul W. King <paulking.rhochi@...> wrote:
                                > > Yes Paul that is possible. I know that I've used it in some custom
                                > > stuff.
                                >
                                > Cool! I'll try it out with a test case sometime this weekend.
                                >
                                > Paul W. King
                                > PR SB, BoD


                                --
                                Tir Gwaith
                                PCGen LST Chimp
                              • Paul Grosse
                                ... Now I m not sure, I thought I remember using it in a custom set for the game I m in but now I can t find it. Maybe I was trying to get it to work for some
                                Message 15 of 19 , Nov 17, 2006
                                  > On 11/17/06, Paul W. King <paulking.rhochi@...> wrote:
                                  > > > Yes Paul that is possible. I know that I've used it in
                                  > some custom
                                  > > > stuff.
                                  > >
                                  > > Cool! I'll try it out with a test case sometime this weekend.
                                  > >
                                  > > Paul W. King
                                  > > PR SB, BoD
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > I think Paul G is remembering TYPE as it works in EQMODs -
                                  > TYPE, ITYPE work differently in EQMODs than in FEATs, or any
                                  > other object.
                                  >
                                  > Let me know if it works in the normal objects.
                                  >
                                  > --
                                  > Tir Gwaith
                                  > PCGen LST Chimp
                                  >
                                  >

                                  Now I'm not sure, I thought I remember using it in a custom set for the
                                  game I'm in but now I can't find it. Maybe I was trying to get it to
                                  work for some of my DM's weird rules and it didn't work for me.

                                  Paul G.
                                • Paul W. King
                                  ... Just tried it, no dice. Paul W. King PR SB, BoD
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Nov 17, 2006
                                    > Cool! I'll try it out with a test case sometime this weekend.

                                    Just tried it, no dice.

                                    Paul W. King
                                    PR SB, BoD
                                  • Paul W. King
                                    ... Another thing I want to point out is that these MOS bonus feats *become* class bonus feats across all classes. That s the main reason I m against trying to
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Nov 17, 2006
                                      > But then, if the user doesn't want an MOS feat, how do they go back
                                      > to the class list? The idea is to have one list of feats available
                                      > for choosing. If I get my bonus list, plus MOS A, MOS B, MOS C, and I
                                      > pick one of the MOS choosers, I can't go back to the main list (I've
                                      > tried before).

                                      Another thing I want to point out is that these MOS bonus feats
                                      *become* class bonus feats across all classes. That's the main reason
                                      I'm against trying to segregate the to separate pop-ups. They need to
                                      be with the class bonus feats.

                                      Paul W. King
                                      PR SB, BoD
                                    • Paul W. King
                                      ... Fair enough. ... I ll admit, you ve lost me a bit here. I *think* what you re trying to say is that test the PRExxx on a TYPE, all actions have to be done
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Nov 17, 2006
                                        > I don't know what the visible impact would be but it certainly
                                        > would cause more runtime work to occur.

                                        Fair enough.

                                        > If we allow the TYPE tag to have PRExxx tags before we can test is
                                        > some object is a particular type we need to resolve all the PRExxxs
                                        > for it. This means we need to make sure all the info is updated
                                        > about the character. This could lead to needing additional
                                        > calcActiveBonuses() calls which is about the slowest thing that we
                                        > do in the system.

                                        I'll admit, you've lost me a bit here. I *think* what you're trying to
                                        say is that test the PRExxx on a TYPE, all actions have to be done
                                        before the PRExxx can be resolved, and that goes through the
                                        aforementioned method which, if I'm understanding you correctly, is
                                        the slowest on the block.

                                        > Beyond that I am not sure I agree with the concept. TYPE to me
                                        > should be an inherent trait of an object not something variable.
                                        > We have more than enough variable things already.

                                        Aren't all the tags some sort of variable anyway?

                                        > I am not sure I really understand what all you are trying to do
                                        > here. When you say "go back to the class list" do you mean after
                                        > they have already chosen something? If not and all you want is a
                                        > chooser that displays them all why not have two choosers. The
                                        > first displays Base, MOS A, MOS B, MOS C. Then display a chooser
                                        > for the appropriate chosen feat list.

                                        When you pick an MOS, all the bonus feats listed with an MOS become
                                        bonus class feats for all classes. So, if I take MOS Diver, it has the
                                        following bonus feats:

                                        Alertness, Amphibious Assault Training, Armor Proficiency (light,
                                        medium, heavy), Athletic, Builder, Cautious, Endurance, Gearhead,
                                        Great Fortitude, Guide, Jump School, Jungle/Swamp Warfare College, MOS
                                        Mastery, Signaling, Sonar Operation, Surface Vehicle Operation
                                        (powerboat, sailboat), Teamwork

                                        So, now, every time I get a bonus class feat (from *any* of the core,
                                        AdC, Prc, etc), these feats (as long as I qualify for them) should
                                        appear on my list of feats.

                                        If, using Tir's Rogue ability statement, we'd have the following:

                                        Bonus feat call lists that class' explicit bonus feats *and* and a
                                        list of any MOS's that the character has taken. If an MOS is taken,
                                        the original pop-up goes away, and a new pop-up appears. If I don't
                                        like the choices on the new pop-up, I can't go back to the original
                                        pop-up, because its now gone away.

                                        My point is that, since these feats are now class bonus feats, they
                                        should be in the same listing as the initial class bonus feats, and
                                        not segregated away.

                                        Does that make more sense?

                                        Paul W. King
                                        PR SB, BoD
                                      • Frank Kliewe
                                        ... Aaron, remember this is modern. Almost every class gets a bonus feat (think Fighter bonus feat) at 3rd, 6th and 9th level. For that matter any feat has a
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Nov 17, 2006
                                          On 11/17/06, boomer70 <boomer70@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > --- "Paul W. King" <paulking.rhochi@...>
                                          > wrote:
                                          >
                                          > > > Option C) No, not possible. And I'd be against
                                          > > that sort of
                                          > > > improvement. The TYPE tag would become even worse
                                          > > than it is now,
                                          > > > syntax-wise. Plus, it will mean checking a
                                          > > dynamic list, instead
                                          > > > of a static hash, which means a lot more
                                          > > processing (my thinking
                                          > > > is sloooowdown)
                                          > >
                                          > > Could a coder speak on this? I don't see how this
                                          > > kind of logic would bog down the system.
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          > I don't know what the visible impact would be but it
                                          > certainly would cause more runtime work to occur.
                                          >
                                          > If we allow the TYPE tag to have PRExxx tags before we
                                          > can test is some object is a particular type we need
                                          > to resolve all the PRExxxs for it. This means we need
                                          > to make sure all the info is updated about the
                                          > character. This could lead to needing additional
                                          > calcActiveBonuses() calls which is about the slowest
                                          > thing that we do in the system.
                                          >
                                          > Beyond that I am not sure I agree with the concept.
                                          > TYPE to me should be an inherent trait of an object
                                          > not something variable. We have more than enough
                                          > variable things already.
                                          >
                                          > > > Anything wrong with doing something like the Rogue
                                          > > abilities, and
                                          > > > havning a (hidden) feat with the PRExxx added to
                                          > > each class option
                                          > > > time, and then have that feat call the other feat?
                                          > >
                                          > > But then, if the user doesn't want an MOS feat, how
                                          > > do they go back to the class list? The idea is to
                                          > > have one list of feats available for choosing. If I
                                          > > get my bonus list, plus MOS A, MOS B, MOS C, and I
                                          > > pick one of the MOS choosers, I can't go back to the
                                          > > main list (I've tried before).
                                          > >
                                          > > Paul W. King
                                          > > PR SB, BoD
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          > I am not sure I really understand what all you are
                                          > tyring to do here. When you say "go back to the class
                                          > list" do you mean after they have already chosen
                                          > something? If not and all you want is a chooser that
                                          > displays them all why not have two choosers. The
                                          > first displays Base, MOS A, MOS B, MOS C. Then
                                          > display a chooser for the appropriate chosen feat
                                          > list.
                                          >
                                          > -Aaron
                                          >
                                          Aaron,

                                          remember this is modern. Almost every class gets a bonus feat (think
                                          Fighter bonus feat) at 3rd, 6th and 9th level. For that matter any
                                          feat has a long tail of class names in its type, which is called in an
                                          ADD:FEAT(TYPE=classname) to select the bonus feat. What Paul wants to
                                          do is let his MOS add further selections to this ADD tag. If I
                                          understand his post right, he wants to expand the classes to something
                                          like ADD:FEAT(TYPE=classname,TYPE=Extra) and then put
                                          TYPE:Extra|PREFEAT:1,MOSxxx into the the according feats, so they will
                                          only be eligible if the character has that feat.

                                          For that matter I don't like the idea of allowing PRExxx to be applied
                                          to a type.

                                          I could see two possible FREQs for this. If it wouldn't be too much a
                                          PITA, then I could see something like ITYPE for feats, let's say
                                          FTYPE:<featname>.<featname>|<type>.<type> which would allow adding a a
                                          series of types to a series of feats. This would be a more general
                                          approach, in case we should ever need to add a type to a feat wor
                                          other reasons.

                                          Specific for the problem at hand and perhaps also as a solution to get
                                          rid of all the .MODs of feats to add types to them in modern, I think
                                          we might be best off to have a tag BONUSFEAT:<featname>|<featname>
                                          that does for bonus feats what CSKILL does for skills. Basically a
                                          feat listed as BONUSFEAT in a class would be a bonus feat for a class,
                                          and a BONUSFEAT listed in an ability like the MOS feats would become a
                                          general bonus feat. These would then be either called by a
                                          ADD:FEAT(BONUS) or whatever future treatment bonus feats are going to
                                          see in abilities.

                                          X-posted to experimental since we're talking new tags now. Everybody
                                          please give me your thoughts over there.

                                          Cheerio,

                                          Frank Kliewe
                                          PCGen Content Silverback

                                          --
                                          Come on now, be honest! Which one of you wouldn't rather listen to his
                                          hairdresser than Hercules? Or Horatius, or Orpheus... people so lofty
                                          they sound as if they shit marble!
                                          (W.A. Mozart in "Amadeus", 1984)
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