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Re: [PCGenListFileHelp] Re: [MSRD] [Future] applying a template more than once

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  • boomer70
    ... I thought so too which is why I did it. I also added the ability to specify PRExxx tags to a DR tag so that may have been the complaint. I honestly don t
    Message 1 of 19 , Sep 11, 2006
      --- frank_kliewe <fkliewe@...> wrote:

      >
      > --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, boomer70
      > <boomer70@...> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > No I don't think so. I added formula support to
      > the
      > > DR tag some time ago but never did anything about
      > SR
      > > or CR since it caused such a rukus at the time.
      > >
      > > -Aaron
      > >
      >
      >
      > What kind of ruckus? I thought allowing JEP for
      > numerical tag fields
      > would be a good thing?
      >

      I thought so too which is why I did it. I also added
      the ability to specify PRExxx tags to a DR tag so that
      may have been the complaint. I honestly don't
      remember what the exact issue was.

      In any case I can fairly easily add variable support
      to both CR: and SR: tags if we want.

      -Aaron

      ----------------
      Aaron Divinsky
      PCGen Docs 2nd, Data Chimp, Code Gibbon, Doc Tamarin

      __________________________________________________
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    • frank_kliewe
      ... I thought SR would already take formulas? At least that s what the docs tell me. Digging back through old mails, I found that the point of fractional CRs
      Message 2 of 19 , Sep 11, 2006
        --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, boomer70 <boomer70@...> wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > What kind of ruckus? I thought allowing JEP for
        > > numerical tag fields
        > > would be a good thing?
        > >
        >
        > I thought so too which is why I did it. I also added
        > the ability to specify PRExxx tags to a DR tag so that
        > may have been the complaint. I honestly don't
        > remember what the exact issue was.
        >
        > In any case I can fairly easily add variable support
        > to both CR: and SR: tags if we want.
        >
        > -Aaron
        >

        I thought SR would already take formulas? At least that's what the docs
        tell me.

        Digging back through old mails, I found that the point of fractional CRs
        hadn't been totally cleared up. Can your Code deal with that?

        Cheerio,

        Frank Kliewe
        PCGen Content Silverback

        --
        I don't think you understand. I didn't come to rescue Rambo from you. I
        came here to rescue you from him.
        (Col. Trautman in "First Blood", 1982)
      • boomer70
        ... My code can do anything I tell it to :) Seriously, how do we want to handle it? 1) I could detect that a CR value only contains a fraction value and
        Message 3 of 19 , Sep 12, 2006
          --- frank_kliewe <fkliewe@...> wrote:

          > --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, boomer70
          > <boomer70@...> wrote:
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > What kind of ruckus? I thought allowing JEP for
          > > > numerical tag fields
          > > > would be a good thing?
          > > >
          > >
          > > I thought so too which is why I did it. I also
          > added
          > > the ability to specify PRExxx tags to a DR tag so
          > that
          > > may have been the complaint. I honestly don't
          > > remember what the exact issue was.
          > >
          > > In any case I can fairly easily add variable
          > support
          > > to both CR: and SR: tags if we want.
          > >
          > > -Aaron
          > >
          >
          > I thought SR would already take formulas? At least
          > that's what the docs
          > tell me.
          >
          > Digging back through old mails, I found that the
          > point of fractional CRs
          > hadn't been totally cleared up. Can your Code deal
          > with that?
          >

          "My code" can do anything I tell it to :) Seriously,
          how do we want to handle it?

          1) I could detect that a CR value only contains a
          fraction value and then store it specially. I am not
          sure what a CR of 1/4 plus a bonus of 1 should
          evaluate to though.

          2) The code could ignore the issue on input and simply
          store the result as a decimal. The output could then
          always output a fractional value (depending on the
          rounding above 1 1/4).

          3) Anything else someone may come up with.

          As for SR I think you may be right. Like I said I was
          doing both formulas and PRExxx so SR may already take
          a formula and just not PRExxx tags.

          -Aaron

          ----------------
          Aaron Divinsky
          PCGen Docs 2nd, Data Chimp, Code Gibbon, Doc Tamarin

          __________________________________________________
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        • Edwin Holley
          ... Tir you are the MAN. But, when a person is building a character (especially a new PCGen user), and they want to add a template, they go to templates. It
          Message 4 of 19 , Sep 12, 2006
            Tir Gwaith wrote:
            >> Be that as it may, this source lists this as a template.
            >>
            >
            > That doesn't mean it has to be coded that way. Don't confuse a
            > mechanic template with the template object. A template holding hidden
            > ability objects that can be increment the CR and mutation points is
            > all you really need.
            >
            >
            Tir you are the MAN. But, when a person is building a character
            (especially a new PCGen user), and they want to add a template, they go
            to templates. It is not appropriate (IMHO) to put non-template stuff
            under templates. It makes the label "templates" incorrect. I think
            this tab should be renamed, as I am sure it would be impossible to move
            stuff that is not templates off the tab. At the very least, I feal it
            is misleading.
            >>> It means a call for a template from more than once source won't get
            >>> added twice. It is the basis for some codings that can't be done with
            >>> hidden feats / abilities.
            >>>
            >> You've lost me with this statement.
            >>
            >
            > Well, I'll just say sometimes a screwdriver is much more useful than a
            > hammer. The more similar two tools are, the harder less they can
            > accomplish divergent needs. The great part about ability object and
            > template objects is that they can call each other, so the mechanical
            > object can use the better tool for the job in any situation while
            > making the user just see the mechanical description.
            >
            >
            But when someone asks for a screwdriver out of their toolbox, you would
            expect to find it in the screwdriver pull, not the hammer pull.
            >>> All this multiple feat bit does is add CR and add Mutation points? I
            >>> don't think you actually need a template more than once for that.
            >>>
            >> Its a template, not a feat. And yes, it increments the available
            >> amount of mutation points and the character's CR each time its taken.
            >>
            >
            > See my first response. You just need a template with hidden feat(s)
            > to increment the CR/mutation points.
            >
            >
            It would be nice to be able to be able to do a template without such.


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Eric Jarman
            Diverging from the MSRD discussion, I know of one other template (Closed Content) that can be applied more than once. For the purpose of discussion, lets call
            Message 5 of 19 , Sep 12, 2006
              Diverging from the MSRD discussion, I know of one other template (Closed
              Content) that can be applied more than once. For the purpose of
              discussion, lets call it 'Improved Un-alive'.
              Any un-alive critter can select it once every 37th blue moon, and
              recieves its choice of a list of spell-like abilities (choosing the same
              one multiple times gives you more uses per day), bonuses to AC,
              abilities, +1CR, +1LA, and it gains or improves its fast healing.

              I think I can figure out how to do almost everything with feats.
              I can create a template "Improved Un-Alive", and have a COST:0 feat with
              a PRETEMPLATE:Improved Un-Alive, MULT:yes, and CHOOSE:NOCHOICE to act
              as a counter for how many times I've taken the "template".

              But will it work with LA?

              And is there an example anywhere for doing the Spell-like abilities?

              Tir Gwaith wrote:

              >>Be that as it may, this source lists this as a template.
              >>
              >>
              >
              >That doesn't mean it has to be coded that way. Don't confuse a
              >mechanic template with the template object. A template holding hidden
              >ability objects that can be increment the CR and mutation points is
              >all you really need.
              >
              >
              >
              >>>It means a call for a template from more than once source won't get
              >>>added twice. It is the basis for some codings that can't be done with
              >>>hidden feats / abilities.
              >>>
              >>>
              >>You've lost me with this statement.
              >>
              >>
              >
              >Well, I'll just say sometimes a screwdriver is much more useful than a
              >hammer. The more similar two tools are, the harder less they can
              >accomplish divergent needs. The great part about ability object and
              >template objects is that they can call each other, so the mechanical
              >object can use the better tool for the job in any situation while
              >making the user just see the mechanical description.
              >
              >
              >
              >>>All this multiple feat bit does is add CR and add Mutation points? I
              >>>don't think you actually need a template more than once for that.
              >>>
              >>>
              >>Its a template, not a feat. And yes, it increments the available
              >>amount of mutation points and the character's CR each time its taken.
              >>
              >>
              >
              >See my first response. You just need a template with hidden feat(s)
              >to increment the CR/mutation points.
              >
              >
              >
            • frank_kliewe
              ... Good. Please give us a tag FNORD:x, where x is the name of a source, that let s a data set work without needing any additional LST coding. ;p ... Hm. I m
              Message 6 of 19 , Sep 12, 2006
                --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, boomer70 <boomer70@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > --- frank_kliewe fkliewe@... wrote:
                >
                > > --- In PCGenListFileHelp@yahoogroups.com, boomer70
                > > boomer70@ wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > What kind of ruckus? I thought allowing JEP for
                > > > > numerical tag fields
                > > > > would be a good thing?
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > > I thought so too which is why I did it. I also
                > > added
                > > > the ability to specify PRExxx tags to a DR tag so
                > > that
                > > > may have been the complaint. I honestly don't
                > > > remember what the exact issue was.
                > > >
                > > > In any case I can fairly easily add variable
                > > support
                > > > to both CR: and SR: tags if we want.
                > > >
                > > > -Aaron
                > > >
                > >
                > > I thought SR would already take formulas? At least
                > > that's what the docs
                > > tell me.
                > >
                > > Digging back through old mails, I found that the
                > > point of fractional CRs
                > > hadn't been totally cleared up. Can your Code deal
                > > with that?
                > >
                >
                > "My code" can do anything I tell it to :) Seriously,

                Good. Please give us a tag FNORD:x, where x is the name of a source,
                that let's a data set work without needing any additional LST coding. ;p

                > how do we want to handle it?
                >
                > 1) I could detect that a CR value only contains a
                > fraction value and then store it specially. I am not
                > sure what a CR of 1/4 plus a bonus of 1 should
                > evaluate to though.
                >
                > 2) The code could ignore the issue on input and simply
                > store the result as a decimal. The output could then
                > always output a fractional value (depending on the
                > rounding above 1 1/4).
                >
                > 3) Anything else someone may come up with.
                >

                Hm. I'm not sure about the rules here either. I have seen fractions only
                used for values below 1, but I do not know how you round those values.
                So, is there anybody here else who knows this?

                > As for SR I think you may be right. Like I said I was
                > doing both formulas and PRExxx so SR may already take
                > a formula and just not PRExxx tags.
                >
                > -Aaron
                >

                Cool. Let's see what we find out about the fractional rounding. Once we
                have that, this could go into one tracker.

                Cheerio,

                Frank Kliewe
                PCGen Content Silverback

                --
                I don't think you understand. I didn't come to rescue Rambo from you. I
                came here to rescue you from him.
                (Col. Trautman in "First Blood", 1982)
              • boomer70
                ... The LEVELADJUSTMENT: tag should take a formula I believe (and I am only wrong once every 37th blue moon). So you should be able to set the LA for the
                Message 7 of 19 , Sep 12, 2006
                  --- Eric Jarman <ehj38230@...> wrote:

                  > Diverging from the MSRD discussion, I know of one
                  > other template (Closed
                  > Content) that can be applied more than once. For
                  > the purpose of
                  > discussion, lets call it 'Improved Un-alive'.
                  > Any un-alive critter can select it once every 37th
                  > blue moon, and
                  > recieves its choice of a list of spell-like
                  > abilities (choosing the same
                  > one multiple times gives you more uses per day),
                  > bonuses to AC,
                  > abilities, +1CR, +1LA, and it gains or improves its
                  > fast healing.
                  >
                  > I think I can figure out how to do almost everything
                  > with feats.
                  > I can create a template "Improved Un-Alive", and
                  > have a COST:0 feat with
                  > a PRETEMPLATE:Improved Un-Alive, MULT:yes, and
                  > CHOOSE:NOCHOICE to act
                  > as a counter for how many times I've taken the
                  > "template".
                  >
                  > But will it work with LA?

                  The LEVELADJUSTMENT: tag should take a formula I
                  believe (and I am only wrong once every 37th blue
                  moon). So you should be able to set the LA for the
                  template to something like
                  LEVELADJUSTMENT:COUNT[FEATS=Un-alive Feat Type].

                  >
                  > And is there an example anywhere for doing the
                  > Spell-like abilities?
                  >

                  Spell-like abilities are handled with the SPELLS tag.
                  You should check the documentation for this tag.

                  -Aaron


                  ----------------
                  Aaron Divinsky
                  PCGen Docs 2nd, Data Chimp, Code Gibbon, Doc Tamarin

                  __________________________________________________
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