Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [PBY] PW10 in the Philippines

Expand Messages
  • Silvano Jung
    Hi Mark, Lou, Bob Great photos of PBY-4s. Just a question about BuNo. 1228. Louis Dorny s table, attached, records 102-P-16 as BuNo. 1242, not BuNo. 1228.
    Message 1 of 11 , Oct 1, 2013
    Hi Mark, Lou, Bob

    Great photos of PBY-4s. Just a question about BuNo. 1228. Louis Dorny's table, attached, records 102-P-16 as BuNo. 1242, not BuNo. 1228. Which one is correct?

    The photo of 21-P-10 appears to show a '10' underneath the wings. Is this a Patrol Wing Ten designation, or just plane No. 10 in the squadron?

    BuNo. 1216 was converted to a houseboat called 'Paddlecat'. I believe it still exists.

    Kind regards
    Silvano


    On 29 September 2013 21:44, pby55@... <pby55@...> wrote:
     

    Me too Mark! I'm sure Dad checked out her guns a few times! Thanks, Ron Moran

    Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID


    Mark Aldrich <mark457@...> wrote:

     

    No doubt about it, that is PatWing Ten but the date is sometime between Sep39 and Jun40.  21-P-10 was BuNo. 1216 and was turned over to VP-26 in Jun40 and returned to Hawaii for overhaul.  The tail in the foreground appears to be BuNo. 1228, 21-P-13 which followed a similar route with a major exception  1216 survived the Philippines debacle and ended up as a houseboat on the Swan River in Australia.   1228 was sunk on water at Olongopo on 12Dec41 while with VP-102 as 102-P-16.  I would sure like to find a good hard copy of that photo.  

    Mark A.


    To: PBY@yahoogroups.com
    From: pbybergstrom@...
    Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2013 15:10:06 -0700
    Subject: [PBY] PW10 in the Philippines [1 Attachment]



    VP-21 in the Philippines early 1941?
     
    Bob Bergstrom



  • David Legg
    Hi Silvano: I m sure mark Aldrich will reply but I looked at the late Ragnar Ragnarsson s notes and he agrees with Lou s table, i.e.: that BuNo 1228 was
    Message 2 of 11 , Oct 1, 2013
      Hi Silvano:

      I'm sure mark Aldrich will reply but I looked at the late Ragnar Ragnarsson's notes and he agrees with Lou's table, i.e.: that BuNo 1228 was 102-P-18 and 1242 was 102-P-16.

      BuNo 1216/Paddlecat was certainly still in existence very recently.

      Regards.

      David Legg
      Editor: The Catalina News, The Catalina Society





      On 1 Oct 2013, at 08:47, Silvano Jung <silvano.jung@...> wrote:

       

      Hi Mark, Lou, Bob

      Great photos of PBY-4s. Just a question about BuNo. 1228. Louis Dorny's table, attached, records 102-P-16 as BuNo. 1242, not BuNo. 1228. Which one is correct?

      The photo of 21-P-10 appears to show a '10' underneath the wings. Is this a Patrol Wing Ten designation, or just plane No. 10 in the squadron?

      BuNo. 1216 was converted to a houseboat called 'Paddlecat'. I believe it still exists.

      Kind regards
      Silvano


      On 29 September 2013 21:44, pby55@... <pby55@...> wrote:
       

      Me too Mark! I'm sure Dad checked out her guns a few times! Thanks, Ron Moran

      Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID


      Mark Aldrich <mark457@...> wrote:

       

      No doubt about it, that is PatWing Ten but the date is sometime between Sep39 and Jun40.  21-P-10 was BuNo. 1216 and was turned over to VP-26 in Jun40 and returned to Hawaii for overhaul.  The tail in the foreground appears to be BuNo. 1228, 21-P-13 which followed a similar route with a major exception  1216 survived the Philippines debacle and ended up as a houseboat on the Swan River in Australia.   1228 was sunk on water at Olongopo on 12Dec41 while with VP-102 as 102-P-16.  I would sure like to find a good hard copy of that photo.  

      Mark A.


      To: PBY@yahoogroups.com
      From: pbybergstrom@...
      Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2013 15:10:06 -0700
      Subject: [PBY] PW10 in the Philippines [1 Attachment]



      VP-21 in the Philippines early 1941?
       
      Bob Bergstrom






      <PHDAPPENDIX05_02a.doc>

    • George Herold
      Unlike LITTLE BO-PEEP who lost her sheep, you boys have kept a pretty good track of most of your s. Back in 1942, if I had known all this data would still be
      Message 3 of 11 , Oct 1, 2013
        Unlike LITTLE BO-PEEP who lost her sheep, you boys have kept a pretty good track of most of your's. Back in 1942, if I had known all this data would still be available over 70 yrs "down the road" I would have written something down while in that PBY enroute Dutch Harbor from Amchitka. - And by the way - I may be off line shortly, MSNTV was supposed to be "HISTORY" today. But ......... 
      • TWMcCarthy@...
        George - I know that many have responded to your inquiries and I believe you know the Squadron that was responsible for your return. Did you ever inquire from
        Message 4 of 11 , Oct 1, 2013
          George -
          I know that many have responded to your inquiries and I believe you know the Squadron that was responsible for your return.  Did you ever inquire from Navy sources about the "Squadron History"?  I don't think History is the correct word but there should be a file in Navy archives that probably includes reference to your free ride.
          God bless you and God bless America!
          Tom (The Hoosier Hotshot)
           
          In a message dated 10/1/2013 2:49:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, GeorgeSS132@... writes:
           

          Unlike LITTLE BO-PEEP who lost her sheep, you boys have kept a pretty good track of most of your's. Back in 1942, if I had known all this data would still be available over 70 yrs "down the road" I would have written something down while in that PBY enroute Dutch Harbor from Amchitka. - And by the way - I may be off line shortly, MSNTV was supposed to be "HISTORY" today. But ......... 

        • Mark Aldrich
          Silvano, I concur with David. I helped Ragnar construct those note years ago using data we collected and excellent input from Wynnum in Australia. The 10
          Message 5 of 11 , Oct 1, 2013
            Silvano,

            I concur with David.  I helped Ragnar construct those note years ago using data we collected and excellent input from Wynnum in Australia.  The "10" under the wing is the aircraft number, not the squadron designation.

            Mark


            To: PBY@yahoogroups.com
            From: pby5@...
            Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 17:16:10 +0100
            Subject: Re: [PBY] PW10 in the Philippines



            Hi Silvano:

            I'm sure mark Aldrich will reply but I looked at the late Ragnar Ragnarsson's notes and he agrees with Lou's table, i.e.: that BuNo 1228 was 102-P-18 and 1242 was 102-P-16.

            BuNo 1216/Paddlecat was certainly still in existence very recently.

            Regards.

            David Legg
            Editor: The Catalina News, The Catalina Society





            On 1 Oct 2013, at 08:47, Silvano Jung <silvano.jung@...> wrote:

             

            Hi Mark, Lou, Bob

            Great photos of PBY-4s. Just a question about BuNo. 1228. Louis Dorny's table, attached, records 102-P-16 as BuNo. 1242, not BuNo. 1228. Which one is correct?

            The photo of 21-P-10 appears to show a '10' underneath the wings. Is this a Patrol Wing Ten designation, or just plane No. 10 in the squadron?

            BuNo. 1216 was converted to a houseboat called 'Paddlecat'. I believe it still exists.

            Kind regards
            Silvano


            On 29 September 2013 21:44, pby55@... <pby55@...> wrote:
             

            Me too Mark! I'm sure Dad checked out her guns a few times! Thanks, Ron Moran

            Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID


            Mark Aldrich <mark457@...> wrote:

             

            No doubt about it, that is PatWing Ten but the date is sometime between Sep39 and Jun40.  21-P-10 was BuNo. 1216 and was turned over to VP-26 in Jun40 and returned to Hawaii for overhaul.  The tail in the foreground appears to be BuNo. 1228, 21-P-13 which followed a similar route with a major exception  1216 survived the Philippines debacle and ended up as a houseboat on the Swan River in Australia.   1228 was sunk on water at Olongopo on 12Dec41 while with VP-102 as 102-P-16.  I would sure like to find a good hard copy of that photo.  

            Mark A.


            To: PBY@yahoogroups.com
            From: pbybergstrom@...
            Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2013 15:10:06 -0700
            Subject: [PBY] PW10 in the Philippines [1 Attachment]



            VP-21 in the Philippines early 1941?
             
            Bob Bergstrom






            <PHDAPPENDIX05_02a.doc>



          • Louis Dorny
            Well, well, I m pleased that Bob s find of the picture of two VP 21 PBY-4s generates so much interest. This period in the Philippines has been an interest for
            Message 6 of 11 , Oct 1, 2013
              Well, well, I'm pleased that Bob's find of the picture of two VP 21 PBY-4s generates so much interest.

              This period in the Philippines has been an interest for me for years. Here are a couple of details to keep in mind.

              1. VP 1 scrapped their old PK-1s at Pearl in 1938, PW2 sent them to San Diego to take new PBY-4s directly from the factory. The Wing's VP 18 followed as well. 

              2. In the 1 July 1939 renumbering of patrol squadrons VP 1 with fifteen PBY-4s, became VP 21. VP 18 with fifteen PBY-4s - including the three blister-equipped planes, BuNo.s 1241, 1242, and 1243, became first VP 13 as renumbered by Patrol Wing ONE, then VP 26 when BuAero sent the squadron back to Patrol Wing TWO in December 1939. In that December 1939 transfer BuNo. 1241 - with blisters and the new-design straight-trailing-edge rudder - was left behind at the Bureau's direction. The Navy ordered two hundred PBY-5s to be just like BuNo. 1241.

              3. In September 1939, to extend the Navy's Neutrality Patrol to the Far East as the President directed, PW2 sent VP 21 west with Fifteen. One plane ( ) went lame at Midway, and thereafter went to VP 26. A second, after arrival in the PI, burned on the new ramp in January 1940 while removing the black boot-topping, leaving VP 21 with thirteen.

              4. Standard markings for PBYs in the 1939 period included the plane number (1-14) on both upper and lower outer wing panel surfaces. Marking for the NP were applied following a December 1939 message: national insignia forward on the hull, under both wings. In addition, VP 21 applied a large format national Ensign both on the lower surfaces of the outer wing panels, and on the hull upper decking aft of the sliding hatches. At this point rudder marking were to a pattern designated by each Wing, and unique to that Wing. Patrol Wing TWO used solid colors and VP 21 was solid insignia red. This patter was falling into disuse  as 1940 progressed and some fotos of VP 26 PBY-4s show the double horizontal stripes of Patrol Wing ONE in willow green, as per VP 13.

              5. In order to keep their deployed squadron operational, Patrol Wing TWO sent VP 26 into rework early in the cycle and the sent VP 26 west in June 1940 with fourteen planes to exchanges with VP 21 for that unit's thirteen. In the process, BuNo. 1243 passed to VP 21 and was renumbered into the 21-P-1 slot. BuNo. 1242 was the one VP 26 plane left behind, and upon the squadron's return was renumbered into the 26-P-1 slot. Thus, VP 21 now had freshly overhauled aircraft, and both VP 21 and VP 26 had a blister-equipped plane in the lead slot, and fourteen planes total. VP 26's planes went into overhaul at Ford Island.

              6. After the exchange, effective 1 October 1940, United States Fleet by direction severed the VP 21 connection with Patrol Wing TWO, redesignated the squadron VP 1, and laid the groundwork for a patrol wing in the United States Asiatic Fleet in the Philippines. At this point, VP 1 repainted the rudders of each plane with vertical blue-white-red stripes. VP 26 was ordered to deploy to the Asiatic Fleet in November 1940, did so in early December,arrived the 15th, and on 16 December Admiral Hart established Patrol Wing TEN, U. S. Asiatic Fleet. VP 1 became VP 101, VP 26 became VP 102. As per the period, VP 102 repainted the squadron logo forward on the hull to "2-P-X" signifying the second squadron in the Wing. I have a good photo of Tom Pollock's 2-P-5 at NAAF Olongapo in early 1941.

              7. The Navy directed the repainting of naval aircraft in December 1940; for VP, upper surfaces dark sea blue, under surfaces gray. In what was evidently a local / Asiatic Fleet decision, in early 1941 the Wing's twenty-eight PBY-4s were painted in an undocumented camo scheme, and renumbered in the #1 thru #14, #16 thru #29 sequence. In Wing and Fleet accounts there are but very brief, non-specific mention of same. At least four photographs of PBY-4s in this camo scheme have survived. In at least one case the camo painting was applied by 31 May 1941.

              I have an assembly of documents attesting to most of this; some is analysis to fill in the blanks. All the fotos of PBYs in the PI prior to the war, so far as I have been able to determine, fit this sequence of events. 

              All comments welcome. Thanks to all for your interest.

              Lou









              On Oct 1, 2013, at 1347 , Mark Aldrich wrote:

               

              Silvano,

              I concur with David.  I helped Ragnar construct those note years ago using data we collected and excellent input from Wynnum in Australia.  The "10" under the wing is the aircraft number, not the squadron designation.

              Mark


              To: PBY@yahoogroups.com
              From: pby5@...
              Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 17:16:10 +0100
              Subject: Re: [PBY] PW10 in the Philippines



              Hi Silvano:

              I'm sure mark Aldrich will reply but I looked at the late Ragnar Ragnarsson's notes and he agrees with Lou's table, i.e.: that BuNo 1228 was 102-P-18 and 1242 was 102-P-16.

              BuNo 1216/Paddlecat was certainly still in existence very recently.

              Regards.

              David Legg
              Editor: The Catalina News, The Catalina Society





              On 1 Oct 2013, at 08:47, Silvano Jung <silvano.jung@...> wrote:

               

              Hi Mark, Lou, Bob

              Great photos of PBY-4s. Just a question about BuNo. 1228. Louis Dorny's table, attached, records 102-P-16 as BuNo. 1242, not BuNo. 1228. Which one is correct?

              The photo of 21-P-10 appears to show a '10' underneath the wings. Is this a Patrol Wing Ten designation, or just plane No. 10 in the squadron?

              BuNo. 1216 was converted to a houseboat called 'Paddlecat'. I believe it still exists.

              Kind regards
              Silvano


              On 29 September 2013 21:44, pby55@... <pby55@...> wrote:
               

              Me too Mark! I'm sure Dad checked out her guns a few times! Thanks, Ron Moran

              Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID


              Mark Aldrich <mark457@...> wrote:

               

              No doubt about it, that is PatWing Ten but the date is sometime between Sep39 and Jun40.  21-P-10 was BuNo. 1216 and was turned over to VP-26 in Jun40 and returned to Hawaii for overhaul.  The tail in the foreground appears to be BuNo. 1228, 21-P-13 which followed a similar route with a major exception  1216 survived the Philippines debacle and ended up as a houseboat on the Swan River in Australia.   1228 was sunk on water at Olongopo on 12Dec41 while with VP-102 as 102-P-16.  I would sure like to find a good hard copy of that photo.  

              Mark A.


              To: PBY@yahoogroups.com
              From: pbybergstrom@...
              Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2013 15:10:06 -0700
              Subject: [PBY] PW10 in the Philippines [1 Attachment]



              VP-21 in the Philippines early 1941?
               
              Bob Bergstrom






              <PHDAPPENDIX05_02a.doc>





            • Nelson
              Hi Silvano, Referring to your attached table it shows that some of the aircraft were renumbered. For example 101-P-13 was renumbered to #7. Does that mean it
              Message 7 of 11 , Oct 8, 2013
                Hi Silvano,

                Referring to your attached table it shows that some of the aircraft were renumbered. For example 101-P-13 was renumbered to #7. Does that mean it became the number 7 aircraft of Patrol Wing 10? Was the side number,101-P-13, repainted to reflect this change in numbering?

                Cheers,
                Nelson


                On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 5:17 PM, Silvano Jung <silvano.jung@...> wrote:
                 

                Hi Mark, Lou, Bob

                Great photos of PBY-4s. Just a question about BuNo. 1228. Louis Dorny's table, attached, records 102-P-16 as BuNo. 1242, not BuNo. 1228. Which one is correct?

                The photo of 21-P-10 appears to show a '10' underneath the wings. Is this a Patrol Wing Ten designation, or just plane No. 10 in the squadron?

                BuNo. 1216 was converted to a houseboat called 'Paddlecat'. I believe it still exists.

                Kind regards
                Silvano


                On 29 September 2013 21:44, pby55@... <pby55@...> wrote:
                 

                Me too Mark! I'm sure Dad checked out her guns a few times! Thanks, Ron Moran

                Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID


                Mark Aldrich <mark457@...> wrote:

                 

                No doubt about it, that is PatWing Ten but the date is sometime between Sep39 and Jun40.  21-P-10 was BuNo. 1216 and was turned over to VP-26 in Jun40 and returned to Hawaii for overhaul.  The tail in the foreground appears to be BuNo. 1228, 21-P-13 which followed a similar route with a major exception  1216 survived the Philippines debacle and ended up as a houseboat on the Swan River in Australia.   1228 was sunk on water at Olongopo on 12Dec41 while with VP-102 as 102-P-16.  I would sure like to find a good hard copy of that photo.  

                Mark A.


                To: PBY@yahoogroups.com
                From: pbybergstrom@...
                Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2013 15:10:06 -0700
                Subject: [PBY] PW10 in the Philippines [1 Attachment]




                VP-21 in the Philippines early 1941?
                 
                Bob Bergstrom




              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.