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Re: [PBY] United States Navy Patrol Wing Ten, 101-P-4 and 101-P-7

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  • Robert Bergstrom
    I have the following microfilm rolls from NARA: PW 10 History & Reports 1941 - 1942, FAW 10 History 1939 - 1945 (NRS 435) FAW 4 Aviation History File (NRS
    Message 1 of 16 , Mar 1, 2013
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      I have the following microfilm rolls from NARA:

      PW 10 History & Reports 1941 - 1942, FAW 10 History 1939 - 1945 (NRS 435)
      FAW 4 Aviation History File (NRS 1974-94)
      Naval Campaign In The Orient Papers (NRS 159)
      FAW - 10 WWII Hist/WD (NRS 1978-86)

      2 roll are the super 8 size and the rest are the 35 MM size.
      I will see what I can do with the scanner.

      Bob Bergstrom

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Jim Stephens
      Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 7:12 PM
      To: PBY@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [PBY] United States Navy Patrol Wing Ten, 101-P-4 and 101-P-7

      On 2/28/2013 6:33 PM, Robert Bergstrom wrote:
      > Thanks, I have an epson printer and will try it.
      >
      > Bob
      I meant to mention that I had a large enough backlight for transparency
      to handle just putting the fiche in one spot. I made a small paper
      template that would allow me to put each fiche in exactly the same spot,
      so I only had to set up once, then keep flipping fiche.

      I look forward to seeing what you can come up with. many thanks
      Jim


      ------------------------------------

      Yahoo! Groups Links
    • Louis Dorny
      Ooops, sorry, guys, for being a little slow on the uptake. The flu bug got me and I was hard down for a while. As we speak I have been revising my copy of the
      Message 2 of 16 , Mar 1, 2013
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        Ooops, sorry, guys, for being a little slow on the uptake. The flu bug got me and I was hard down for a while. As we speak I have been revising my copy of the CAAF War Diary with fresh copy. I'll email copies of the daily pages to anyone who needs them. Stand by to copy, Jim.

        Attached is 8-31 Dec 1941. It's an 8 meg file. If this is too much let me know and I'll cut it in half and resend. Jan/Feb still under revision/refreshment.

        You're probably aware that Captain Wagner was both Commander Aircraft Asiatic Fleet (CAAF) as well as COMPATWING10. Thus, it's the CAAF War Diary, but in fact is both.

          Lou


        On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 8:56 AM, Robert Bergstrom <pbybergstrom@...> wrote:
        I have the following microfilm rolls from NARA:

        PW 10 History & Reports 1941 - 1942, FAW 10 History 1939 - 1945 (NRS 435)
        FAW 4 Aviation History File (NRS 1974-94)
        Naval Campaign In The Orient Papers (NRS 159)
        FAW - 10 WWII Hist/WD (NRS 1978-86)

        2 roll are the super 8 size and the rest are the 35 MM size.
        I will see what I can do with the scanner.

        Bob Bergstrom

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Jim Stephens
        Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 7:12 PM
        To: PBY@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [PBY] United States Navy Patrol Wing Ten, 101-P-4 and 101-P-7

        On 2/28/2013 6:33 PM, Robert Bergstrom wrote:
        > Thanks, I have an epson printer and will try it.
        >
        > Bob
        I meant to mention that I had a large enough backlight for transparency
        to handle just putting the fiche in one spot.  I made a small paper
        template that would allow me to put each fiche in exactly the same spot,
        so I only had to set up once, then keep flipping fiche.

        I look forward to seeing what you can come up with.  many thanks
        Jim


        ------------------------------------

        Yahoo! Groups Links





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      • Robert Bergstrom
        Thanks Lou, interesting how little is in this war diary (as compared to others I have seen. I think they wrote it way after the fact. From: Louis Dorny Sent:
        Message 3 of 16 , Mar 2, 2013
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          Thanks Lou, interesting how little is in this war diary (as compared to others I have seen.  I think they wrote it way after the fact.
           
          Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 9:36 PM
          Subject: Re: [PBY] United States Navy Patrol Wing Ten, 101-P-4 and 101-P-7
           
           

          Ooops, sorry, guys, for being a little slow on the uptake. The flu bug got me and I was hard down for a while. As we speak I have been revising my copy of the CAAF War Diary with fresh copy. I'll email copies of the daily pages to anyone who needs them. Stand by to copy, Jim.

          Attached is 8-31 Dec 1941. It's an 8 meg file. If this is too much let me know and I'll cut it in half and resend. Jan/Feb still under revision/refreshment.

          You're probably aware that Captain Wagner was both Commander Aircraft Asiatic Fleet (CAAF) as well as COMPATWING10. Thus, it's the CAAF War Diary, but in fact is both.

            Lou


          On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 8:56 AM, Robert Bergstrom <pbybergstrom@...> wrote:
          I have the following microfilm rolls from NARA:

          PW 10 History & Reports 1941 - 1942, FAW 10 History 1939 - 1945 (NRS 435)
          FAW 4 Aviation History File (NRS 1974-94)
          Naval Campaign In The Orient Papers (NRS 159)
          FAW - 10 WWII Hist/WD (NRS 1978-86)

          2 roll are the super 8 size and the rest are the 35 MM size.
          I will see what I can do with the scanner.

          Bob Bergstrom

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Jim Stephens
          Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 7:12 PM
          To: PBY@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [PBY] United States Navy Patrol Wing Ten, 101-P-4 and 101-P-7

          On 2/28/2013 6:33 PM, Robert Bergstrom wrote:
          > Thanks, I have an epson printer and will try it.
          >
          > Bob
          I meant to mention that I had a large enough backlight for transparency
          to handle just putting the fiche in one spot.  I made a small paper
          template that would allow me to put each fiche in exactly the same spot,
          so I only had to set up once, then keep flipping fiche.

          I look forward to seeing what you can come up with.  many thanks
          Jim


          ------------------------------------

          Yahoo! Groups Links





          ------------------------------------

          Yahoo! Groups Links

          <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PBY/

          <*> Your email settings:
              Individual Email | Traditional

          <*> To change settings online go to:
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PBY/join
              (Yahoo! ID required)

          <*> To change settings via email:
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        • Silvano Jung
          Thanks Lou, This is great. Never seen the complete diary before. Interesting that the Catalina Ens. Tills was killed wasn t specifically recorded. In your list
          Message 4 of 16 , Mar 2, 2013
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            Thanks Lou,

            This is great. Never seen the complete diary before. Interesting that the Catalina Ens. Tills was killed wasn't specifically recorded. In your list of casualties (10-App K.doc) you indicate that Tills was killed in 101-P-4. How did you know which Catalina he was in? This seems to contradict JPAC's identification of the wreck in which his remains were found ie., 101-P-7. JPAC haven't got back to me as to how they actually identified Tills' Catalina. Maybe it was just a guess? Maybe it wasn't their brief to actually identify the Catalina, but just to recover human remains?

            Regards
            Silvano

            On 2 March 2013 15:06, Louis Dorny <louis41@...> wrote:
             

            Ooops, sorry, guys, for being a little slow on the uptake. The flu bug got me and I was hard down for a while. As we speak I have been revising my copy of the CAAF War Diary with fresh copy. I'll email copies of the daily pages to anyone who needs them. Stand by to copy, Jim.

            Attached is 8-31 Dec 1941. It's an 8 meg file. If this is too much let me know and I'll cut it in half and resend. Jan/Feb still under revision/refreshment.

            You're probably aware that Captain Wagner was both Commander Aircraft Asiatic Fleet (CAAF) as well as COMPATWING10. Thus, it's the CAAF War Diary, but in fact is both.

              Lou


            On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 8:56 AM, Robert Bergstrom <pbybergstrom@...> wrote:
            I have the following microfilm rolls from NARA:

            PW 10 History & Reports 1941 - 1942, FAW 10 History 1939 - 1945 (NRS 435)
            FAW 4 Aviation History File (NRS 1974-94)
            Naval Campaign In The Orient Papers (NRS 159)
            FAW - 10 WWII Hist/WD (NRS 1978-86)

            2 roll are the super 8 size and the rest are the 35 MM size.
            I will see what I can do with the scanner.

            Bob Bergstrom

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Jim Stephens
            Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2013 7:12 PM
            To: PBY@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [PBY] United States Navy Patrol Wing Ten, 101-P-4 and 101-P-7

            On 2/28/2013 6:33 PM, Robert Bergstrom wrote:
            > Thanks, I have an epson printer and will try it.
            >
            > Bob
            I meant to mention that I had a large enough backlight for transparency
            to handle just putting the fiche in one spot.  I made a small paper
            template that would allow me to put each fiche in exactly the same spot,
            so I only had to set up once, then keep flipping fiche.

            I look forward to seeing what you can come up with.  many thanks
            Jim


            ------------------------------------

            Yahoo! Groups Links





            ------------------------------------

            Yahoo! Groups Links

            <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PBY/

            <*> Your email settings:
                Individual Email | Traditional

            <*> To change settings online go to:
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PBY/join
                (Yahoo! ID required)

            <*> To change settings via email:
                PBY-digest@yahoogroups.com
                PBY-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

            <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                PBY-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

            <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
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          • jclewort6@...
            Silvano Thought I d take the chance to say G day, I am at Jindabyne at the moment - have just had time to sit down and read without disturbance your report on
            Message 5 of 16 , Mar 3, 2013
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              Silvano
              Thought I'd take the chance to say G'day, I am at Jindabyne at the moment - have just had time to sit down and read without disturbance your report on SHELL MIDDENS, FISH TRAPS AND
              KIDNEYS:East Arm Marine Precinct – archaeological survey. Having been to Darwin many times - It's a great report! I just thought I'd let you know my old mate Ex Cat guy from 20 Sqn RAAF East Arm is no longer with us and has, to coin a phrase, 'dropped of the perch' I knew Walt Smith very well and he often talked about the fish traps and his time at East Arm - he was one of the few blokes who knew my brother and checked his centrametric radar at least once - Walt was worried about that radar as it was too accurate in comparison to the earlier type, few of the blokes on the aircarft had insufficient time to get used to it. He said its main problem was it was too good, in as much as the guys could get too close to where they were headed - sounds funny but some of them copped more flak than they intended.
              Walt was a great guy and you would have loved his company; after the war he worked for QANTAS and finally ended up with Cathay Pacific, he set up the first flight simulator for QANTAS - loved his beer and was as straight as you could ever get (no bullshit!).
              I also know Les Jubbs very well, he is now in a retirement village just north of Perth - another great bloke
              All the best - look us up if in Sydney there is a bed for you
              Bob


              ------------------------------------------
              From: Silvano Jung <silvano.jung@...>
              To: PBY@yahoogroups.com;
              Subject: Re: [PBY] United States Navy Patrol Wing Ten, 101-P-4 and 101-P-7
              Hi Lou,
              The Lake Lanao wreck might be in very good condition, given that it didn't
              burn at time of loss. We're quite likely to get great preservation if it's
              buried in anaerobic conditions. On the other hand, we found wonderful
              preservation of artefacts on the Y-59 in Broome and fuselage below the
              waterline. Don't forget 'Catalina 6' (Unknown PBY-4 No. 2) in Darwin -
              complete preservation of the wing! That site didn't have 50-odd years of
              recreational boat anchors pulling it apart. Humans, it would seem, have a
              much greater detrimental affect on these sites than the sea.
              Just got an email from Wendy Coble from JPAC. Apparently Tills was found in
              101-P-7. Doesn't PatWing Ten War Diary record that he was lost in 101-P-4?
              I haven't got the page for that day. Does any one have a copy to share?
              Maybe the archaeology at the site has given us insights into the past, not
              recorded in history? JPAC have as yet to inform me as to how they
              identified the site. 101-P-4 was not found, perhaps destroyed by
              development?
              Kind regards
              Silvano
              On 28 February 2013 07:47, Louis Dorny <louis41@...> wrote:
              > **
              >
              >
              > Hello, Silvano & Bob...
              >
              > Thanx for the photo. I had found it a while back but it had no source data
              > attached. Your's does.
              >
              > I spoke with a fellow who knew about the effort to recover Tills'
              > remains. They found the PBYs' remain as well, almost nothing but the
              > engines and pieces here and there after years in the salt water, and even
              > then signs of fire before the planes sank. To my question whether anything
              > substantial of the airframes remains, he didn't know for sure, but thought
              > not. I was able to confirm to them that Ensign Tills was the only man
              > killed on this occasion.
              >
              > There is another PBY-4 nearby in Lake Lanao. 102-P-24 flew down from Luzon
              > on 15 or 16 December to join the others of the Wing there and moving south,
              > and as she taxiied to the pier for fuel her bottom was sliced open by a
              > rock and she sank. Lake Lanao is fresh water and cool, the surface is 2300
              > feet up. What the condition of the plane may be on the bottom of the lake
              > is unknown. What do you think, Silvano?
              >
              > Lou
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 7:48 AM, Silvano Jung <silvano.jung@...>wrote:
              >
              >> **
              >>
              >>
              >> Hi all,
              >>
              >> Anyone noticed this before? Just came across this photo of two PBY-4s
              >> being sunk at Malalag, Philippines. Please see link below. The remains of
              >> Ensign Robert Tills were recovered from one of these funeral pyres in 2008.
              >> Notice that the Willy B. still had her awnings on the fore deck! Taken by
              >> complete surprise. Quite a remarkable photograph. Wonder if JAPAC found
              >> both Cats? May be we have four PBY-4s located wrecks now: two in Darwin,
              >> Australia and two in the Philippines? I'm still looking for the ones in
              >> Broome. Wonder what heritage protection any of these sites have? The
              >> Northern Territory Government don't seem to care, after 15 years since I
              >> nominated them for heritage listing. What chance have we got in the
              >> Philippines?
              >>
              >>
              >> http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soubor:Ryujo_kankko_over_William_B._Preston_in_Malalag_Bay.jpg
              >>
              >> Regs
              >> Silvano
              >>
              >>
              >
              >
            • Silvano Jung
              Hi Lou, Do you have the CPW10 War Diary entries from 1 January 1942 until Patrol Wing Ten was decommissioned in Perth? Cheers Silvano ... Hi Lou, Do you have
              Message 6 of 16 , Mar 25, 2013
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                Hi Lou,

                Do you have the CPW10 War Diary entries from 1 January 1942 until Patrol Wing Ten was decommissioned in Perth?

                Cheers
                Silvano 

                On 3 March 2013 20:38, <jclewort6@...> wrote:
                 

                Silvano
                Thought I'd take the chance to say G'day, I am at Jindabyne at the moment - have just had time to sit down and read without disturbance your report on SHELL MIDDENS, FISH TRAPS AND
                KIDNEYS:East Arm Marine Precinct – archaeological survey. Having been to Darwin many times - It's a great report! I just thought I'd let you know my old mate Ex Cat guy from 20 Sqn RAAF East Arm is no longer with us and has, to coin a phrase, 'dropped of the perch' I knew Walt Smith very well and he often talked about the fish traps and his time at East Arm - he was one of the few blokes who knew my brother and checked his centrametric radar at least once - Walt was worried about that radar as it was too accurate in comparison to the earlier type, few of the blokes on the aircarft had insufficient time to get used to it. He said its main problem was it was too good, in as much as the guys could get too close to where they were headed - sounds funny but some of them copped more flak than they intended.
                Walt was a great guy and you would have loved his company; after the war he worked for QANTAS and finally ended up with Cathay Pacific, he set up the first flight simulator for QANTAS - loved his beer and was as straight as you could ever get (no bullshit!).
                I also know Les Jubbs very well, he is now in a retirement village just north of Perth - another great bloke
                All the best - look us up if in Sydney there is a bed for you
                Bob

                ------------------------------------------
                From: Silvano Jung silvano.jung@...>


                To: PBY@yahoogroups.com;
                Subject: Re: [PBY] United States Navy Patrol Wing Ten, 101-P-4 and 101-P-7
                Hi Lou,
                The Lake Lanao wreck might be in very good condition, given that it didn't
                burn at time of loss. We're quite likely to get great preservation if it's
                buried in anaerobic conditions. On the other hand, we found wonderful
                preservation of artefacts on the Y-59 in Broome and fuselage below the
                waterline. Don't forget 'Catalina 6' (Unknown PBY-4 No. 2) in Darwin -
                complete preservation of the wing! That site didn't have 50-odd years of
                recreational boat anchors pulling it apart. Humans, it would seem, have a
                much greater detrimental affect on these sites than the sea.
                Just got an email from Wendy Coble from JPAC. Apparently Tills was found in
                101-P-7. Doesn't PatWing Ten War Diary record that he was lost in 101-P-4?
                I haven't got the page for that day. Does any one have a copy to share?
                Maybe the archaeology at the site has given us insights into the past, not
                recorded in history? JPAC have as yet to inform me as to how they
                identified the site. 101-P-4 was not found, perhaps destroyed by
                development?
                Kind regards
                Silvano
                On 28 February 2013 07:47, Louis Dorny louis41@...> wrote:
                > **
                >
                >
                > Hello, Silvano & Bob...
                >
                > Thanx for the photo. I had found it a while back but it had no source data
                > attached. Your's does.
                >
                > I spoke with a fellow who knew about the effort to recover Tills'
                > remains. They found the PBYs' remain as well, almost nothing but the
                > engines and pieces here and there after years in the salt water, and even
                > then signs of fire before the planes sank. To my question whether anything
                > substantial of the airframes remains, he didn't know for sure, but thought
                > not. I was able to confirm to them that Ensign Tills was the only man
                > killed on this occasion.
                >
                > There is another PBY-4 nearby in Lake Lanao. 102-P-24 flew down from Luzon
                > on 15 or 16 December to join the others of the Wing there and moving south,
                > and as she taxiied to the pier for fuel her bottom was sliced open by a
                > rock and she sank. Lake Lanao is fresh water and cool, the surface is 2300
                > feet up. What the condition of the plane may be on the bottom of the lake
                > is unknown. What do you think, Silvano?
                >
                > Lou
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 7:48 AM, Silvano Jung silvano.jung@...>wrote:
                >
                >> **
                >>
                >>
                >> Hi all,
                >>
                >> Anyone noticed this before? Just came across this photo of two PBY-4s
                >> being sunk at Malalag, Philippines. Please see link below. The remains of
                >> Ensign Robert Tills were recovered from one of these funeral pyres in 2008.
                >> Notice that the Willy B. still had her awnings on the fore deck! Taken by
                >> complete surprise. Quite a remarkable photograph. Wonder if JAPAC found
                >> both Cats? May be we have four PBY-4s located wrecks now: two in Darwin,
                >> Australia and two in the Philippines? I'm still looking for the ones in
                >> Broome. Wonder what heritage protection any of these sites have? The
                >> Northern Territory Government don't seem to care, after 15 years since I
                >> nominated them for heritage listing. What chance have we got in the
                >> Philippines?
                >>
                >>
                >> http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soubor:Ryujo_kankko_over_William_B._Preston_in_Malalag_Bay.jpg
                >>
                >> Regs
                >> Silvano
                >>
                >>
                >
                >


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