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Fw: National Geographic

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  • Larry Katz
    ... From: mjenning@NGS.ORG To: Larry Katz Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 8:27 AM Subject: Re: National Geographic Mr. Katz, I appreciate your forwarding my
    Message 1 of 8 , Nov 1 7:19 AM
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 8:27 AM
      Subject: Re: National Geographic


      Mr. Katz,
      I appreciate your forwarding my email to some members of your group. Many thanks for your help.

      Best,
      Mary


      "Larry Katz" <papakatz@...>

      10/31/05 09:20 PM

      To
      <mjenning@...>
      cc
      Subject
      Re: National Geographic





      Ms.Jennings, I sent your E.Mail to some historians in our group.See what happens.LK
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: mjenning@...
      To: papakatz@...
      Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 3:43 PM
      Subject: National Geographic


      Dear Mr. Katz,


      Hello -- I am a researcher with National Geographic Magazine, trying to track down some information on VP-101. I came across your notice from a few years ago on vpnavy.com, and wondered if you might help. We recently published a picture (October, 2005) of a number of artifacts, found in the stomach of an albatross, which included a piece of plastic-looking material that could have been a tag from the VP-101 squadron. The Naval Historical Center has confirmed this possibility, and some correspondence on the VP Navy website supports this:


      http://www.vpnavy.com/vp101_notice.html


      I'm looking for information about what this tag could have been used for and where it might have fallen into the ocean. An oceanographer and flotsam expert has explained how it could have drifted northward from the Philippines to be scooped up by the bird many years later, and the Naval Historical Center has noted that the tag COULD have been wired to a piece of equipment to identify it as belonging to the squadron. Any additional information or confirmation (does this look familiar?) would be greatly appreciated. You can get a better look at the item on the website above, if you click on the link.


      Thank you kindly for any information or guidance you might offer.


      Sincerely,

      Mary Jennings

      National Geographic Magazine

      Research Division

    • TWMcCarthy@aol.com
      In a message dated 11/1/2005 7:22:41 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, papakatz@sbcglobal.net writes: http://www.vpnavy.com/vp101 I think the following link will
      Message 2 of 8 , Nov 1 9:52 AM
        In a message dated 11/1/2005 7:22:41 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, papakatz@... writes:
        http://www.vpnavy.com/vp101
        I think the following link will take you there faster:
         
         
        God bless America!
        Tom
      • Louis Dorny
        Larry from Lou. Very interesting! There probably is something to this. Sea birds are scavengers, and will eat most anything first and ask questions
        Message 3 of 8 , Nov 1 12:11 PM
          Larry from Lou…
           
          Very interesting!  There probably is something to this.  Sea birds are scavengers, and will eat most anything first and ask questions afterwards.  The pertinent info here for the NG seems to be that [1] VP 101 was in fact a real Navy squadron, and [2] and operated as such from December 1940 in the Philippines, through the Dutch East Indies, and Western Australia, thence to New Guinea and the Solomons and Bismarks until redesignated VPB 29 in (date? 1943, I think).  [3] Supposing that the bird found something it thought edible adrift at sea, and that same resulted from a downed airplane and lost crew, at least these possible geographical locations come to mind:  Dec 1941: Subic Bay, Luzon [seven PBYs sunk on the water] and Laguna di Bai, Luzon [one shot down, two burned on the water], Jolo Island in the Sulu chain [three shot down over the target on a bombing mission]; Jan 1942: Off Kema and Menado in Dutch Celebes (now Sulawesi)[ one shot down near the target on a bombing mission]; Feb 1942: Makassar Straits between Borneo and Celebes [two shot down on patrol]; Darwin harbor, Australia [three burned and sunk on the water]; March 1942: Broome, Western Australia [two burned and sunk on the water].  All things considered, my first bet would be the three lost at Jolo…two down in the water and sunk, one crashed on the beach, many men lost, and mass confusion… lots of loose ends.
           
          Not impossible, is that a piece of VP 101 gear was captured by the Japanese and used in service, and then went adrift when a Japanese plane or ship was lost.
           
          In my mind, for a piece of gear, aircraft or personal, to go adrift most likely occurred during a shoot down and loss of plane and crew.  Those locations noted above are where VP 101 had PBY aircraft shootdown by the enemy or destroyed on the water.  VP 22 planes were lost during this same period, but for the most part they seemed to have retained their VP 22 identity during the campaign through March 1942.  At that point their was only one left anyway. 
           
          The found piece seems to be an identification tag of some sort, and made of metal.  It seems that there would be little purpose in tagging the airplane itself, but certainly certain equipments in the plane might have been so tagged; the Norden bombsight, for instance, or some radio or navigation equipment.  What was your experience, Larry?  Were things like life jackets, and cold weather clothing for high altitude work, and such things tagged with a squadron ident like that?  Maybe, maybe not.
           
          Very interesting, indeed.
           
          Cheers, Lou
           
          L. B. Dorny, Commander, USN (ret.)
          Seattle, WA
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 1817
          Subject: [PBY] Fw: National Geographic

          Lou, this is up your alley.Also some of the group.Got this today from National Geographic,   do you think there is something to this. Larry
           
           
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 3:43 PM
          Subject: National Geographic


          Dear Mr. Katz,

          Hello -- I am a researcher with National Geographic Magazine, trying to track down some information on VP-101. I came across your notice from a few years ago on vpnavy.com, and wondered if you might help. We recently published a picture (October, 2005) of a number of artifacts, found in the stomach of an albatross, which included a piece of plastic-looking material that could have been a tag from the VP-101 squadron. The Naval Historical Center has confirmed this possibility, and some correspondence on the VP Navy website supports this:

          http://www.vpnavy.com/vp101_notice.html

          I'm looking for information about what this tag could have been used for and where it might have fallen into the ocean. An oceanographer and flotsam expert has explained how it could have drifted northward from the Philippines to be scooped up by the bird many years later, and the Naval Historical Center has noted that the tag COULD have been wired to a piece of equipment to identify it as belonging to the squadron. Any additional information or confirmation (does this look familiar?) would be greatly appreciated. You can get a better look at the item on the website above, if you click on the link.

          Thank you kindly for any information or guidance you might offer.

          Sincerely,
          Mary Jennings
          National Geographic Magazine
          Research Division
        • Larry Katz
          Tom really something,wish I could recall that piece. Larry ... From: TWMcCarthy@aol.com To: PBY@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 11:52 AM
          Message 4 of 8 , Nov 1 5:08 PM
            Tom really something,wish I could recall that piece. Larry
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 11:52 AM
            Subject: Re: [PBY] Fw: National Geographic

            In a message dated 11/1/2005 7:22:41 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, papakatz@... writes:
            http://www.vpnavy.com/vp101
            I think the following link will take you there faster:
             
             
            God bless America!
            Tom
          • Larry Katz
            Lou, I cannot remember anything that was tagged with our squadron plate or different numbers on any type of gear.Just like our flight jackets,they were
            Message 5 of 8 , Nov 1 6:42 PM
              Lou, I cannot remember anything that was tagged with our squadron plate or different numbers on any type of gear.Just like our flight jackets,they were stripped without any thing on them. We had our squadron  insignia     on them on one side then on the other a small patch with our name and rank and squadron outfit. You know what I am refering to.I will look into some of the pictures and see if I can find one.I do know that some of the pilots nav gear had tags on their boxes showing squadron names. Could it be that round part of the VP101 plate belonged to an instrument storage box like the navagators used for star sights? Just a guess. Larry
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 2:11 PM
              Subject: Re: [PBY] Fw: National Geographic

              Larry from Lou…
               
              Very interesting!  There probably is something to this.  Sea birds are scavengers, and will eat most anything first and ask questions afterwards.  The pertinent info here for the NG seems to be that [1] VP 101 was in fact a real Navy squadron, and [2] and operated as such from December 1940 in the Philippines, through the Dutch East Indies, and Western Australia, thence to New Guinea and the Solomons and Bismarks until redesignated VPB 29 in (date? 1943, I think).  [3] Supposing that the bird found something it thought edible adrift at sea, and that same resulted from a downed airplane and lost crew, at least these possible geographical locations come to mind:  Dec 1941: Subic Bay, Luzon [seven PBYs sunk on the water] and Laguna di Bai, Luzon [one shot down, two burned on the water], Jolo Island in the Sulu chain [three shot down over the target on a bombing mission]; Jan 1942: Off Kema and Menado in Dutch Celebes (now Sulawesi)[ one shot down near the target on a bombing mission]; Feb 1942: Makassar Straits between Borneo and Celebes [two shot down on patrol]; Darwin harbor, Australia [three burned and sunk on the water]; March 1942: Broome, Western Australia [two burned and sunk on the water].  All things considered, my first bet would be the three lost at Jolo…two down in the water and sunk, one crashed on the beach, many men lost, and mass confusion… lots of loose ends.
               
              Not impossible, is that a piece of VP 101 gear was captured by the Japanese and used in service, and then went adrift when a Japanese plane or ship was lost.
               
              In my mind, for a piece of gear, aircraft or personal, to go adrift most likely occurred during a shoot down and loss of plane and crew.  Those locations noted above are where VP 101 had PBY aircraft shootdown by the enemy or destroyed on the water.  VP 22 planes were lost during this same period, but for the most part they seemed to have retained their VP 22 identity during the campaign through March 1942.  At that point their was only one left anyway. 
               
              The found piece seems to be an identification tag of some sort, and made of metal.  It seems that there would be little purpose in tagging the airplane itself, but certainly certain equipments in the plane might have been so tagged; the Norden bombsight, for instance, or some radio or navigation equipment.  What was your experience, Larry?  Were things like life jackets, and cold weather clothing for high altitude work, and such things tagged with a squadron ident like that?  Maybe, maybe not.
               
              Very interesting, indeed.
               
              Cheers, Lou
               
              L. B. Dorny, Commander, USN (ret.)
              Seattle, WA
               
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 1817
              Subject: [PBY] Fw: National Geographic

              Lou, this is up your alley.Also some of the group.Got this today from National Geographic,   do you think there is something to this. Larry
               
               
               
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 3:43 PM
              Subject: National Geographic


              Dear Mr. Katz,

              Hello -- I am a researcher with National Geographic Magazine, trying to track down some information on VP-101. I came across your notice from a few years ago on vpnavy.com, and wondered if you might help. We recently published a picture (October, 2005) of a number of artifacts, found in the stomach of an albatross, which included a piece of plastic-looking material that could have been a tag from the VP-101 squadron. The Naval Historical Center has confirmed this possibility, and some correspondence on the VP Navy website supports this:

              http://www.vpnavy.com/vp101_notice.html

              I'm looking for information about what this tag could have been used for and where it might have fallen into the ocean. An oceanographer and flotsam expert has explained how it could have drifted northward from the Philippines to be scooped up by the bird many years later, and the Naval Historical Center has noted that the tag COULD have been wired to a piece of equipment to identify it as belonging to the squadron. Any additional information or confirmation (does this look familiar?) would be greatly appreciated. You can get a better look at the item on the website above, if you click on the link.

              Thank you kindly for any information or guidance you might offer.

              Sincerely,
              Mary Jennings
              National Geographic Magazine
              Research Division
            • Robert W. Bergstrom
              The tag is described as plastic looking. I would expect aluminum to last this long, but was there plastic in 1941 or was this Bakelite? Also the shape of
              Message 6 of 8 , Nov 1 8:29 PM
                The "tag" is described as plastic looking.  I would expect aluminum to last this long, but was there plastic in 1941 or was this Bakelite? Also the shape of the tag is not uniform and appears to be cut out.  If it is from VP-101 I expect it to be some kind of tag or squadron specific item like what has been said already (tool box, bomb site holder).  I think I will email Art Jacobsen to see what he say's since he was a bombardier.  Bob Bergstrom
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 6:42 PM
                Subject: Re: [PBY] Fw: National Geographic

                Lou, I cannot remember anything that was tagged with our squadron plate or different numbers on any type of gear.Just like our flight jackets,they were stripped without any thing on them. We had our squadron  insignia     on them on one side then on the other a small patch with our name and rank and squadron outfit. You know what I am refering to.I will look into some of the pictures and see if I can find one.I do know that some of the pilots nav gear had tags on their boxes showing squadron names. Could it be that round part of the VP101 plate belonged to an instrument storage box like the navagators used for star sights? Just a guess. Larry
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 2:11 PM
                Subject: Re: [PBY] Fw: National Geographic

                Larry from Lou…
                 
                Very interesting!  There probably is something to this.  Sea birds are scavengers, and will eat most anything first and ask questions afterwards.  The pertinent info here for the NG seems to be that [1] VP 101 was in fact a real Navy squadron, and [2] and operated as such from December 1940 in the Philippines, through the Dutch East Indies, and Western Australia, thence to New Guinea and the Solomons and Bismarks until redesignated VPB 29 in (date? 1943, I think).  [3] Supposing that the bird found something it thought edible adrift at sea, and that same resulted from a downed airplane and lost crew, at least these possible geographical locations come to mind:  Dec 1941: Subic Bay, Luzon [seven PBYs sunk on the water] and Laguna di Bai, Luzon [one shot down, two burned on the water], Jolo Island in the Sulu chain [three shot down over the target on a bombing mission]; Jan 1942: Off Kema and Menado in Dutch Celebes (now Sulawesi)[ one shot down near the target on a bombing mission]; Feb 1942: Makassar Straits between Borneo and Celebes [two shot down on patrol]; Darwin harbor, Australia [three burned and sunk on the water]; March 1942: Broome, Western Australia [two burned and sunk on the water].  All things considered, my first bet would be the three lost at Jolo…two down in the water and sunk, one crashed on the beach, many men lost, and mass confusion… lots of loose ends.
                 
                Not impossible, is that a piece of VP 101 gear was captured by the Japanese and used in service, and then went adrift when a Japanese plane or ship was lost.
                 
                In my mind, for a piece of gear, aircraft or personal, to go adrift most likely occurred during a shoot down and loss of plane and crew.  Those locations noted above are where VP 101 had PBY aircraft shootdown by the enemy or destroyed on the water.  VP 22 planes were lost during this same period, but for the most part they seemed to have retained their VP 22 identity during the campaign through March 1942.  At that point their was only one left anyway. 
                 
                The found piece seems to be an identification tag of some sort, and made of metal.  It seems that there would be little purpose in tagging the airplane itself, but certainly certain equipments in the plane might have been so tagged; the Norden bombsight, for instance, or some radio or navigation equipment.  What was your experience, Larry?  Were things like life jackets, and cold weather clothing for high altitude work, and such things tagged with a squadron ident like that?  Maybe, maybe not.
                 
                Very interesting, indeed.
                 
                Cheers, Lou
                 
                L. B. Dorny, Commander, USN (ret.)
                Seattle, WA
                 
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 1817
                Subject: [PBY] Fw: National Geographic

                Lou, this is up your alley.Also some of the group.Got this today from National Geographic,   do you think there is something to this. Larry
                 
                 
                 
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 3:43 PM
                Subject: National Geographic


                Dear Mr. Katz,

                Hello -- I am a researcher with National Geographic Magazine, trying to track down some information on VP-101. I came across your notice from a few years ago on vpnavy.com, and wondered if you might help. We recently published a picture (October, 2005) of a number of artifacts, found in the stomach of an albatross, which included a piece of plastic-looking material that could have been a tag from the VP-101 squadron. The Naval Historical Center has confirmed this possibility, and some correspondence on the VP Navy website supports this:

                http://www.vpnavy.com/vp101_notice.html

                I'm looking for information about what this tag could have been used for and where it might have fallen into the ocean. An oceanographer and flotsam expert has explained how it could have drifted northward from the Philippines to be scooped up by the bird many years later, and the Naval Historical Center has noted that the tag COULD have been wired to a piece of equipment to identify it as belonging to the squadron. Any additional information or confirmation (does this look familiar?) would be greatly appreciated. You can get a better look at the item on the website above, if you click on the link.

                Thank you kindly for any information or guidance you might offer.

                Sincerely,
                Mary Jennings
                National Geographic Magazine
                Research Division
              • GeorgeSS132@webtv.net
                Art Jacobsen - great guy. He was the head honcho who pulled my shipmates & I off of Amchitka in June 1942. - Geo.
                Message 7 of 8 , Nov 2 7:44 AM
                  Art Jacobsen - great guy. He was the head honcho who pulled my shipmates
                  & I off of Amchitka in June 1942. - Geo.
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